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Trinity River Park

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 05 Apr 2019 10:14

Lol

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quixomniac
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby quixomniac » 09 Apr 2019 01:01

there are so many plans, can someone post again for clarity..
What is the Balanced Vision?
Why isnt it being followed

Hows this different than the trinity park conservancy?

How does the harold simmons park play into this?

Also what is Re-wilding?
Dallas Observer presents as going back to nature? its already full of nature.
Basically isnt that just leaving it as it is? So there's nothing to build, re wildling just means leave it as it is?

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The_Overdog
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby The_Overdog » 09 Apr 2019 09:08

Also what is Re-wilding?
Dallas Observer presents as going back to nature? its already full of nature.
Basically isnt that just leaving it as it is? So there's nothing to build, re wildling just means leave it as it is?
Top


I believe that the official version of 'rewilding' involves restoring the meander (but still within the levees?), so there is some construction work that has to be done, but then again it's a really long river throughout Dallas County. It can be all the things - a signature park, rewilded, left to nature, in different sections.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 09 Apr 2019 10:46

quixomniac wrote:there are so many plans, can someone post again for clarity..
What is the Balanced Vision?
Why isnt it being followed

Hows this different than the trinity park conservancy?

How does the harold simmons park play into this?

Also what is Re-wilding?
Dallas Observer presents as going back to nature? its already full of nature.
Basically isnt that just leaving it as it is? So there's nothing to build, re wildling just means leave it as it is?

Answers:

1. The Balanced Vision Plan provides the working plan from which anyone working within the floodway must follow. It was blessed by the Corps of Engineers and gives the fundamental framework for any project in the floodway. There is an idea to build a recreation area between the two signature bridges along the Trinity in Dallas. It's not a park. It's a recreation area. Important to never call it a park as it is not one. Nor will it ever be. The language is in the ordinance creating the Local Government Corporation. Not a park. Were it a park a number of state laws and city ordinances would govern it. Not a park.

2. The Trinity Park Conservancy, formerly The Trinity Trust is a privately funded organization seeking to raise funds to build a recreation area in the floodway. Apparently they want to control all of the Trinity River in Dallas or claim credit that they do. Odd approach since they lack the capacity to do that. Whatever. They championed the Calatrava Bridges(but won't pay to fix the design problems) They championed the Standing Wave(but won't pay for the removal of it). They championed the Texas Horse Park(but fell short on raising money to build it and stuck the taxpayers with the bill for construction). They championed the Trinity River Audubon Center(which bleeds money and is not living up to contractual obligations). See a trend? Anyway, after all that past history, they now want to build a big park like area seen in other parts of the country. Oh, they totally pushed for a tollroad along the Trinity.

3. Rewilding has virtually nothing to do with any of that. Led by the folks who defeated the Trinity Tollroad that project would focus on recreation along the Trinity, some concrete trails, mostly dirt paths which would allow people to experience nature. Programming back into the floodplain plants, trees, flowers and wetlands that area allowed in the Balanced Vision Plan. When it floods, awesome. The plants would not have a problem with it. The plants would create a wide variety of habitats that would attract butterflies, birds and small animals. The same wildlife seen in the Great Trinity Forest. Removal of invasive species, some floating trash removal and periodic beneficial mowing regimes would be the only maintenance needed. This has been done with great success all over the world in other urban areas. It's low cost and provides maximum returns in regards to creation of recreation for humans and habitat for wildlife.

Answer your questions sort of? That's a snapshot of what's in play.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 09 Apr 2019 10:51

The_Overdog wrote:
Also what is Re-wilding?
Dallas Observer presents as going back to nature? its already full of nature.
Basically isnt that just leaving it as it is? So there's nothing to build, re wildling just means leave it as it is?
Top


I believe that the official version of 'rewilding' involves restoring the meander (but still within the levees?), so there is some construction work that has to be done, but then again it's a really long river throughout Dallas County. It can be all the things - a signature park, rewilded, left to nature, in different sections.


Restoring the meander is too expensive and full of engineering challenges. Better to work on the ephemeral wetlands off channel that currently exist. Those small ponds are the lifeblood of the Trinity River.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 09 Apr 2019 11:48

quixomniac wrote:How does the harold simmons park play into this?


He's just a dead guy whose family is willing to pay 50M for naming rights for the "park" as some sort of family legacy project.

The would be Park would between the two bridges. But seeing how the Feds said nuh-uh... I'm not even sure his family would be interested in the naming ..

Personally, I'd rather have the "park" named the "Trinity River" ..

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 09 Apr 2019 12:10

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
quixomniac wrote:How does the harold simmons park play into this?


He's just a dead guy whose family is willing to pay 50M for naming rights for the "park" as some sort of family legacy project.

The would be Park would between the two bridges. But seeing how the Feds said nuh-uh... I'm not even sure his family would be interested in the naming ..

Personally, I'd rather have the "park" named the "Trinity River" ..


It's a wonderful thing that his family is doing with their generous gift. Just needs to be done the right way the first time. The Corps of Engineers seem to have expressed a vote of no confidence in the contractors hired to bring the project into reality. That does not bode well!

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muncien
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 09 Apr 2019 12:58

So.... We re-wild the entire flood plain. Use the family money to build the much cheaper trails and plants. Expand it all the way up to Inwood and down to the Forrest. Drop all the bells and whistles and call it the "Harrold Simmons Trinity River Recreation Area".

Done. What's next? :D

Also, I'm wondering how many smaller bridges we could get down in the flood plane for the $$ we're about to fork out for the fix to the big bridge... Hmmm
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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quixomniac
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby quixomniac » 09 Apr 2019 13:52

[/quote]
Answer your questions sort of? That's a snapshot of what's in play.[/quote]

Thank you for your reply.
1. It's hard to keep track of all the different websites for the different organizations but this is what i found.
https://trinityrivercorridor.com/about/ ... ision-plan
With this overall picture
https://trinityrivercorridor.com/enviro ... age-05.pdf

From my understanding, its just some realignment of the river, some lakes, some approaches, maybe making it easier to go down the leevees by paths or lowering the levee ramp and that's it.
Anything less than that is unacceptable to me based on the years of expectations and planning.

2. https://trinityparkconservancy.org/the-park/
I would argue they have the Trinity Trust lack of capacity to do anything good or bad, other than raise money and spend money on pretty renderings. The mess of the bridge falls on the city manager office, even thru this circle jerk of blaming between city, architects, engineers. Same for the standing wave. all city manager. And I mean Bridge singular, since the Margaret Hunt Hill is IMO a hit even if it came overbudget, as well as the continental Kirk bridge park.

Although I have family in south dallas, visiting there frequently, the Audobon center and horse park, and even the golf course have NO BUSINESS BEING THERE , it might as well be 2 hours away. I understand that south dallas wants attractions and im sure their politicians lobbied to have them built there, but that's the reason they are failing, no one wants to go down there. If the horse park was closer to downtown, say oak cliff, and you could ride a horse along the levees on some sort of path it would be A HIT. That would be the MOST TEXAS thing to do. The audubon center should have been closer as a gateway to the forest.
The golf course needs nice hotels nearby and other amenties otherwise the clientele has no interest going there.

3. Can anyone find a website for these guys? I understand the attraction of rewilding, but being as cynical as I am with Dallas citizens, they have no interest in nature presented in that manner. Residents of Dallas NEED their instagram posts. This is a city that has been isolated and insulated from nature for years. Restoring the meander in certain sections would be great as that what creates a living river, but doing it for the whole river, I am not sure how financially feasible that is or even how safe it is. The premise of the Trinity river as it is, a straight narrow river is to get water quickly out of the downtown area without letting it accumulate. Would a meander slow water flow or increase it?

I agree with TheOverdog
" It can be all the things - a signature park, rewilded, left to nature, in different sections."

The river is certainly long enough to be multiple things.
1. A reasonable park between the calatrava bridges, simpler than what was presented with decent approaches to shut up the real estate developers stalling any progress on things getting done
It's purpose is to get people to the river and maybe take a chance on nature.
And a body of water, either a widened river channel or lake to stick a canoe in and paddle down river.

2. Some sort of rewilded section that sort of eases people into nature

3. Full access into the forest. hiking paths/trails,

In this manner i think residents will slowly learn to appreciate the nature we are surrounded by.
To get past the initial instagram photo posts and experience it on a daily basis.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 09 Apr 2019 16:59

If we "re-wilded" the area with new plants and then said "done with it," wouldn't the next big flood just wash all the new vegetation away because we've channeled all of the city's drainage into the Trinity and made it a giant, artificial drainage ditch? I just worry that what seems easy really wouldn't be.

I still think we need to make it a lake like Austin did with their river, Lady Bird lake. Repair and strengthen the levees, dam it, and create a flood control release. Create parks and recreation along it, including a beautiful boardwalk that stretches the length of the park, preferably on the west bank so it has views of downtown and the new park along the shores.

Whatever is built there, the fancy park or the "re-wild," is going to be susceptible to the massive flooding that floodplain sees literally every year now. Give us a sensible and beautiful waterfront instead!


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muncien
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 10 Apr 2019 09:25

Quite possibly the most beautiful section of the Trinity River channel is up along the Elm Fork where Spur 482 crosses. You get a great view of it while on the Orange line which crosses here as well. It is as 'wild' as can be. It floods ALL THE TIME. The vegetation is lush and helps filter the trash/debris from the river. There are some primitive service roads in various places through here. I once did a trash clean up with my company down there and it is absolutely beautiful. Now, it would take quite some time to get the mowed/sterile sections of the river to look anything like this, but IMO, this is what we should be striving for. All that is missing from this particular section is some better maintained pathways.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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quixomniac
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby quixomniac » 10 Apr 2019 17:21

muncien wrote:Quite possibly the most beautiful section of the Trinity River channel is up along the Elm Fork where Spur 482 crosses. You get a great view of it while on the Orange line which crosses here as well. It is as 'wild' as can be. It floods ALL THE TIME. The vegetation is lush and helps filter the trash/debris from the river. There are some primitive service roads in various places through here. I once did a trash clean up with my company down there and it is absolutely beautiful. Now, it would take quite some time to get the mowed/sterile sections of the river to look anything like this, but IMO, this is what we should be striving for. All that is missing from this particular section is some better maintained pathways.


Is that near Bachman Lake?
That's great I will take a ride someday.

To counter the earlier Dallas Observer post from the always affable Jim Schutze,
I post this from this ex-Dallas Observer counterpart Robert Wilonsky

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... onsky-week

It's too early to say the plan is dead. Doesnt seem like its the final say on the matter either
It looks like it will be another political tug of war

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 11 Apr 2019 17:05

Texas Horse Park operator is trespassing says the City of Dallas. No more Horse Park, at least the public component. I guess Equest will stay there but River Ranch is basically told to vacate the premises.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... respassing

Sorta big news in the whole scheme of things regarding the Trinity River Project and it's failure on delivering big issues.

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Sburres
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Sburres » 18 Apr 2019 09:27

This is sad but not surprising.

I agree with what Phillip Kingston said. There is such a thing as dreaming too big. We keep wasting money when we could simply make this a great park. If we even paved the length of the trail, planted trees, and added parking it would improve it tremendously.

Half of the presentation was they want people to get excited and to see the flooding? No! We want the river to prevent flooding and trails alongside. No one wants to go to a park that is flooded.

DPatel304
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 18 Apr 2019 09:42

Sburres wrote:I agree with what Phillip Kingston said. There is such a thing as dreaming too big. We keep wasting money when we could simply make this a great park. If we even paved the length of the trail, planted trees, and added parking it would improve it tremendously.


This is how I feel too. We've spent all this time being overly ambitious and we are still left with nothing. I'd rather just see the trails on top of the levees paved, with a loop created from the pedestrian bridge (either to the Slyvan Ave bridge or the McDermott bridge). A nice trail loop like that with those amazing views will get people walking/running/biking in the area. As it becomes more popular, then we start adding more and more to the trails little by little.

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 18 Apr 2019 09:49

The various Billionaires Philanthropic Clubs need to accept Reverchon and Fair Park as the locations of infrastructure improvement initiatives; the real estate between the Trinity River levees is not for the built world; adding a 'shelf' to the flood control zone is an excellent idea and the extent to which engineering should be applied. Rebuilding the Tollway to restore and expand Reverchon Park AND restore Turtle Creek will deliver much better interchanges and traffic flow with I-35, McKinnon and Harry Hines. A carnival entertainment district based on tourism associated TOD at the MLK Station would set in motion the evolution of a destination that impacts the entire metropolitan area. anyway....

A deeper and wider river channel that feeds wetland cells throughout the flood zone will become the benchmark managed wilderness recreation for the South Central US. Removal of the flora choke point near the forest will mitigate the seasonal flash floods.

The ignorance and stupidity driving the attempts to create any sort of amusement park is so self-destructive it can hardly be believed. The sweet pleasure found in the riparian environment should be pervasive to a Texan childhood, and in the big city that needs to mean a big riparian landscape that can accommodate millions of residents.


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