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DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 17 Oct 2018 22:09

I wonder if Birdwell is one of those that just doesn't support Texas Central. I have heard about those that really just want TGV because it IS subsidized and gives the state control over the tracks. With Texas Central they don't get that.

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Tucy
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 18 Oct 2018 11:04

muncien wrote:
Tucy wrote:
muncien wrote:
Yes... Perhaps I should elaborate. My contention isn't with the contents of the bill itself, but more with the motivations behind it. Being that exactly zero people have ever been killed in Texas due to terrorist attacks on trains, 'safety' isn't exactly the bill author's motivation. This bill was submitted by representatives in areas that disagree with this project specifically (because it doesn't benefit them) in order to make life more difficult for those building it. Those who claim to oppose over regulation (I am one of them), cannot on the other hand impose regulation on something simply because they don't agree with it. It is hypocrisy at it's best...

If indeed these folks cared about the safety of Texas's as much as they profess to, they should put more focus on automobile safety. The fact that we as a country are 'okay' with the fact that every year we loose as many people automobile accidents as we did for the entire Korean war, is just maddening. We should be promoting safer alternative modes of transportation, not discouraging them.


How do you know their motivations? And what about the motivations of all of the senators and representatives (including quite a few from areas the rail will benefit)?

The bill passed by wide margins in both the House and Senate (94-29 and 24-6, respectively)


The bill AUTHOR himself couldn't talk about the bill without expressing his obvious opposition to the project in the same sentence...
Senator Brian Birdwell, SB 975 author: “While I maintain my steadfast opposition to the Dallas-to-Houston high-speed rail project―both for the landowners who will be harmed by it in the short term and for the Texas taxpayers who will likely be asked to subsidize it in the long term―I am proud of the legislature for passing my SB 975 to ensure the public safety and security of all those on and around any future high-speed rail line in Texas.”


So he acknowledged he is opposed to the project. That doesn't really tell us his motivation for this particular bill (if his motivation for this bill was to derail the project, he misfired rather seriously). And so what if his motivation was bad? How about we look at what the law says? Isn't that more important than anyone's motivation? It is telling that it passed by such wide margins, including support from many representatives and senators who represent regions that will be served by the rail, including Roberto Alonzo (D), Dallas; Nicole Collier (D), Ft Worth; Helen Giddings (D), Dallas; Eric Johnson(D), Dallas.

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tamtagon
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 18 Oct 2018 11:51

I think it all boils down to age-old rural versus urban politics, regardless of what the actual law may or may not say. Grimes county politicos thinly veiled their opposition to HSR tracks as an assault on property rights, building arguments that there's no local benefit and only localized damage from a train that only solves issues for the big cities -- piggybacked on the notion that the liberals were trying to take away from the conservatives, an exceptionally easy sell in the world of contemptuous politics. Standard Operating Procedure coming and going.

At the same time in Grimes County, decision makers embraced a tollway's assault on property rights to improve access to Houston -- transportation available, for a price, to everyone in the Grimes County area so they could more easily enjoy the benefits of a big city.

Texas has had plenty of laws put in place only to have them removed in the daylight of reality.

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electricron
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby electricron » 20 Oct 2018 01:38

tamtagon wrote:Texas has had plenty of laws put in place only to have them removed in the daylight of reality.


Every legislature can rewrite the laws of Texas every two years.
That's true of every democracy. Nothing is set in stone.

Even the US Constitution can be amended as the needs arise, as long as you got a "supermajority" in Congress and in the States Legislatures.

But when discussing transportation issues around this state, it's best to use the existing laws as the foundation of the discussion of what is legally possible.

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tamtagon
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 20 Oct 2018 10:44

electricron wrote:...But when discussing transportation issues around this state, it's best to use the existing laws as the foundation of the discussion of what is legally possible.


I cannot disagree, the existing laws certainly determine what can be built today; the discussion of what is possible, however, cannot truly determine what can be built tomorrow without a thorough examination of the legal relevancy.

Look at the laws controlling how freight and passenger train can use the same tracks -- the root cause of some of those laws do not exist anymore because freight and passenger trains are different than they were when the laws were appropriately put in place.

A law that says the state is forbidden from contributing to HSR construction is political maneuvering plain and simple.

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electricron
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby electricron » 21 Oct 2018 01:16

tamtagon wrote:A law that says the state is forbidden from contributing to HSR construction is political maneuvering plain and simple.

Sure it is, but what else do you expect politicians to do but play at politics?

If and when the majority of legislators want TXDOT to invest in HSR, they will change the law.

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 23 Oct 2018 15:04

$77B bullet train officials approve central California stretch

https://www.constructiondive.com/news/7 ... ch/540099/

Dive Insight:

Despite optimism on the part of the authority's board members, the bullet train project faces more obstacles than just the time it will take the FRA to issue its final impact statement and record of decision.

First, the project is not fully funded. In fact, the authority reported earlier this year that it is about $40 billion short, and the gap is likely to grow. The authority anticipates that the bullet train's total costs could reach $98 billion.

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WesTexas
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby WesTexas » 26 Oct 2018 13:18

wow. the Cali bullet train has gotten out of control. This is why it needs to be ran by a private company and investors and not the government. It cant even go high speed when and if finished because all the towns it has to stop in. Train to no where.

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 30 Oct 2018 14:39

WesTexas wrote:wow. the Cali bullet train has gotten out of control. This is why it needs to be ran by a private company and investors and not the government. It cant even go high speed when and if finished because all the towns it has to stop in. Train to no where.


That's pretty much the way it will be in Texas but I do think it a bit odd that A&M got a stop and only a part time stop at that. Most trains will run express to Houston.

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 30 Oct 2018 14:39

Texas Bullet Train named top North American infrastructure project

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... jects.html

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 27 Nov 2018 13:49

The Texas bullet train now looks likely. Here’s what to expect

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/the-t ... -617806536

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WesTexas
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby WesTexas » 28 Nov 2018 12:13

BUILD IT! We need something to brag about here in Texas. Also I want to ride one of these bad boys without spending over a grand to fly to Japan.

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muncien
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby muncien » 28 Nov 2018 12:44

WesTexas wrote:BUILD IT! We need something to brag about here in Texas. Also I want to ride one of these bad boys without spending over a grand to fly to Japan.


No doubt! I spent two weeks riding old Amtrak trains around the country last year, and spent a couple years riding trains around Europe as well. Traveling by train is superior to air travel by so many magnitudes, it's hardly even comparable. Even those old Amtrak clunkers were a joy to ride. So long as we don't go out of our way to make this far more complicated than it has to be, these trains should mop up the traffic between D and H in no time.
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TNWE
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby TNWE » 28 Nov 2018 15:20

muncien wrote:
WesTexas wrote:BUILD IT! We need something to brag about here in Texas. Also I want to ride one of these bad boys without spending over a grand to fly to Japan.


No doubt! I spent two weeks riding old Amtrak trains around the country last year, and spent a couple years riding trains around Europe as well. Traveling by train is superior to air travel by so many magnitudes, it's hardly even comparable. Even those old Amtrak clunkers were a joy to ride. So long as we don't go out of our way to make this far more complicated than it has to be, these trains should mop up the traffic between D and H in no time.


Amtrak does have the benefit of being able to get up and walk to the café car for a beer while the train is stuck waiting for traffic to clear, I'll give it that :P

I really can't wait to see what the fares look like, and whether they will be the same all the way up until departure or if there will be various advance purchase/flexible/last minute fares.

DPatel304
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 28 Nov 2018 16:34

The article says this about the fares:
Texas Central has not revealed with a Dallas to Houston ticket will cost but a spokesman said it will be competitive with airline fares.

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 04 Dec 2018 08:11

How will the bullet train transform its Texas stops? Here's what happened in Japan

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... stops.html

Shin-Yokohama

When the bullet train opened in 1964, the Shin-Yokohama station was mostly an empty field. Today, it looks like the downtown area of a small city, packed with high-rise buildings.

With or without the buildings, the passengers alone provide the population. As of 2010, more than 28,000 passengers boarded trains at the station daily, according to the railway.


Wow...1964 so six decades later we catch up.

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tamtagon
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 04 Dec 2018 11:15

28,000 passengers boarded trains at the station daily

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 21 Dec 2018 11:36

Inside Infrastructure Projects of the Future

https://constructech.com/inside-infrast ... he-future/

itsjrd1964
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby itsjrd1964 » 25 Dec 2018 16:05

In early December, Texas Central CEO Carlos Aguilar was interviewed on KERA's "CEO" program. He is asked about the project, as well as a bit of his background.

http://www.kera.org/2018/12/03/carlos-a ... s-central/

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art_suckz
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 12 Feb 2019 13:46

Judge’s Ruling Could Have Big Implications For Proposed High-Speed Rail Line

By Gail Delaughter
February 12, 2019 9:30 am

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/transportation/2019/02/11/321320/judges-ruling-could-have-big-implications-for-proposed-high-speed-rail-line/

A new ruling by a Leon County judge could have major implications for the proposed high-speed rail between Houston and Dallas, by preventing the rail line’s developers from using eminent domain to acquire land for the project.

For the past few years,Texas Central Railway has been working on plans to build a privately-funded high-speed rail line between Houston and Dallas. At issue is whether Texas Central can use eminent domain as a railroad when landowners don’t want to sell their land voluntarily. The company contends it has that authority under Texas law, but a Leon County judge has now ruled that Texas Central isn’t actually a railroad.
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exelone31
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby exelone31 » 13 Feb 2019 12:12

For those curious, per Wikipedia, the population of Leon County as of the 2010 Census was 16,801.

After all the back and forth on this, I am honestly kind of amazed that our highway system even exists.

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tamtagon
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 13 Feb 2019 12:53

hard shell

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 13 Feb 2019 13:55

Tough. They're aren't a railroad company so what are they?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 13 Feb 2019 14:13

exelone31 wrote:For those curious, per Wikipedia, the population of Leon County as of the 2010 Census was 16,801.

After all the back and forth on this, I am honestly kind of amazed that our highway system even exists.


To be fair alot the practices that were done in the 50's would be deemed illegal nowadays; especially redlining and highway building through those areas.. Can You imagine the backlash if something like that was even attempted today!

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... ty/474282/

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 13 Feb 2019 14:27

exelone31 wrote:For those curious, per Wikipedia, the population of Leon County as of the 2010 Census was 16,801.

After all the back and forth on this, I am honestly kind of amazed that our highway system even exists.


The difference is that the highways benefit the rural areas, and the benefits outweigh the negatives. The politicians will fight tooth and nail to get them in their districts. The Dallas-Houston rail line, OTOH, provides no benefits outside the areas with a station.

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art_suckz
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 13 Feb 2019 15:01

Hannibal Lecter wrote:The difference is that the highways benefit the rural areas, and the benefits outweigh the negatives. The politicians will fight tooth and nail to get them in their districts. The Dallas-Houston rail line, OTOH, provides no benefits outside the areas with a station.


TCR Claims:
Construction of the Bullet Train will create 10,000 jobs a year during each year of the build. As indicated in the DEIS, 25 percent of those jobs are expected to be sourced in rural communities.

Because it’s a private entity, the company is expecting to pay property taxes to cities, school districts and other taxing entities along its entire line for its tracks, maintenance facilities and stations, as well as state and local sales taxes. That’s expected to total $2.5 billion through 2040, according to the study.

Finally, during construction, thousands of people will pump money directly into local communities by eating in local restaurants, staying in hotels, filling up at local gas stations, among other things.
Last edited by art_suckz on 13 Feb 2019 16:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 13 Feb 2019 15:12

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
exelone31 wrote:For those curious, per Wikipedia, the population of Leon County as of the 2010 Census was 16,801.

After all the back and forth on this, I am honestly kind of amazed that our highway system even exists.


The difference is that the highways benefit the rural areas, and the benefits outweigh the negatives. The politicians will fight tooth and nail to get them in their districts. The Dallas-Houston rail line, OTOH, provides no benefits outside the areas with a station.


Taxes / Jobs?

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muncien
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby muncien » 13 Feb 2019 15:45

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
exelone31 wrote:For those curious, per Wikipedia, the population of Leon County as of the 2010 Census was 16,801.

After all the back and forth on this, I am honestly kind of amazed that our highway system even exists.


The difference is that the highways benefit the rural areas, and the benefits outweigh the negatives. The politicians will fight tooth and nail to get them in their districts. The Dallas-Houston rail line, OTOH, provides no benefits outside the areas with a station.


This is interesting to me, as I have seen the main street core of small town after small town hollowed out once the freeway was built along the outskirts. What was once a 'main street' is how a hulk of boarded up windows, while outskirts are lined with gas stations and dairy queens. Every time I happen to divert through one of these towns, I can't help but feel bad for them. But, perhaps having the easy accessibility to neighboring cities eliminates the need for a local town center. I don't know...
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DPatel304
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 13 Feb 2019 15:51

I guess the rural towns are thinking that, once this rail line is built, it means far less cars on I-45, which is less business for these towns. I can't blame them for thinking this way, and maybe there is truth to it, but I just see it as a rising boat lifts all tides situation. Not everyone is going to use the HSR, so they will still be getting business from drivers, and the HSR will encourage growth in DFW and Houston, which, in turn, leads to more potential drivers along I-45 too.

I don't really have any numbers of evidence to support this thought, but I'm guessing these small towns see the HSR as the beginning of the end for a lot of them, but I think there is enough growth to support all of Texas.

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art_suckz
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 13 Feb 2019 16:33

We've F*ed up America with sprawl... I say tear down the fences, build wildlife bridges over the highways and bring back the Buffalo. If a town doesn't have anything worth seeing or doing then that's just how it goes.
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cowboyeagle05
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Feb 2019 14:14

It's a chicken and egg argument and one that can be struck down with the right argument. It's like saying a chicken isn't a bird because it's not flying. I am no legal scholar of course but I doubt the argument will ultimately stand up in the long war they are fighting here.


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