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Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 May 2017 20:07

Tucy wrote:
man or pacman wrote:So according to the article there is a new for sale sign up on the property. So if the sale didn't go through, the Cuellars (current owners of the building) are the ones that ordered the demolition. They destroyed their own legacy to spite the neighborhood and avoid further historic protections for the sake of greater profits. That sucks.


There being a new for sale sign on the property tells us nothing about whether the sale by the Cuellars went through.


https://www.dallasnews.com/news/oak-cli ... bors-pleas

EL CORAZÓN IS DEAD!

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ContriveDallasite » 16 May 2017 01:27

LONG LIVE EL CORAZON

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Dtown214
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Dtown214 » 18 May 2017 08:32

That sucks!

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Thymant
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Thymant » 26 Jun 2017 12:15

Bishop Arts Station and Crescent Bishop Arts (All 4 Corners Under Construction)

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Thymant
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Thymant » 26 Jun 2017 12:18

Magnolia on Zang

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Tnexster
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 26 Jun 2017 13:21

Looks like Uptown

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tamtagon
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby tamtagon » 26 Jun 2017 15:45

Tnexster wrote:Looks like Uptown


hahaha

it does. what a melodrama!

Wait, doesn't the new stuff in Austin and East Dallas look like Uptown, too?

Someone please make the unwritten Art Deco Design mandate covering/guiding all of this new mixed use construction in Oak Cliff, Kessler, Bishop Arts, Elmwood, Kid Springs, Winnetka whateverville.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 26 Jun 2017 15:51

Tnexster wrote:Looks like Uptown


They're saving the church next door, which is what really matters. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

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tamtagon
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby tamtagon » 26 Jun 2017 16:48

^are there any motor hotels left? That's one aspect of the rise of auto-culture worth saving. Of course, don't consider staying at my all time favorite motor hotel, Austin Motel, anymore because the neighborhood patina has been cleansed off. But that's just the sort of coolness I would hope to find still surviving in Oak Cliff.

Alamo Motel and one or two other high profile motor hotel demolitions were all over in West Dallas, right?

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 06 Jul 2017 10:12

tamtagon wrote:^are there any motor hotels left? That's one aspect of the rise of auto-culture worth saving. Of course, don't consider staying at my all time favorite motor hotel, Austin Motel, anymore because the neighborhood patina has been cleansed off. But that's just the sort of coolness I would hope to find still surviving in Oak Cliff.

Alamo Motel and one or two other high profile motor hotel demolitions were all over in West Dallas, right?


There are a handful of motor hotels left on Fort Worth Ave that I pass on my way downtown from Hampton but I'm not sure any of them have the potential that Mission or Alamo had. Certainly no other Dilbecks/Belmonts left, but perhaps one with a lot of potential is at 1839 Fort Worth Ave, the Ranch Motel (now Inn of the Dove). It looks like it could be restored to have a quirky Western aesthetic.

Back on the subject of Bishop Arts, we have the first tenant announced for the Exxir/Nazerian Bishop Arts development.

http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... shop-arts/

A Dallas-based company that started out in the juice world is opening a new cafe. Tribal will open its first location in Bishop Arts, in a new development south of Eighth Street at 263 N. Bishop Ave.

Their menu will include smoothies, wraps, and bowls. There'll also be a full bar with cocktails that incorporate their juices.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 18 Jul 2017 11:54

On Thursday, City Plan Commission will vote whether to approve a parking reduction at 635 N Zang, known as Mayor George Sergeant's home built in 1910, which allows for Jim Lake Co. to renovate and convert the building for restaurant use. Guess this is a small consolation prize for allowing a cheap-looking CVS to replace El Corazon.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Matt777 » 18 Jul 2017 13:02

lakewoodhobo wrote:On Thursday, City Plan Commission will vote whether to approve a parking reduction at 635 N Zang, known as Mayor George Sergeant's home built in 1910, which allows for Jim Lake Co. to renovate and convert the building for restaurant use. Guess this is a small consolation prize for allowing a cheap-looking CVS to replace El Corazon.


Major kudos to the developer trying to get this done! The city should definitely approve the parking reduction, and then get rid of most parking requirements city-wide while they're at it.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 18 Jul 2017 16:11

Carmegedon I say! People will be left wandering the streets in their cars with nowhere to park or even worse they will all just stay home and no one will go out again because it's just too stressful to park a car. Then the gas tax will collapse and mass transit will no longer have funding to support its continued expansion to the farthest reaches of the metroplex. Oh the humanity!

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 26 Jul 2017 09:13

How can neighbors get what they want from a CVS developer?

http://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2017/07/can-neighbors-get-want-cvs-developer/

So far, plans call for building a typical CVS store set behind a parking lot, boxy with a synthetic stucco façade and a pharmacy drive-through.

That doesn’t appeal to those who envision the corner of West Davis and Zang as a walkable, urban extension of the Bishop Arts District.

CVS, like many major retailers, builds most of its stores to certain specifications, whenever allowed, and deviating from that likely increases their costs.

But if neighbors want more expensive materials, such as brick, or a storefront that meets the sidewalk, what power does the neighborhood have to negotiate with the CVS developer?

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby The_Overdog » 26 Jul 2017 10:44

CVS builds all kinds of stores, from included in new urban mixed use to historic mixed use to stand-alone suburban fronting a street to typical suburban fronting a parking lot, all with or without drive-thrus.

Seems like a cop out to me to declare their parking-fronted stand-alone suburban store their model and everything else an expensive deviation to be false. They build according to developer rules all around the country.

Give them rules and they will make it work.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby citygeek » 26 Jul 2017 11:38

The Overdog is right on this. I've seen them all over the country, including NTX with different design built new or in existing structures in adaptive re-use sites. The problem all over Dallas and many of the suburbs here is that neither city officials nor residents require anything of these developers other than the standard issue, bare minimum. This current boom is bringing a lot of cookie-cutter crap architecture that will not age well.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby muncien » 26 Jul 2017 12:14

It's the zoning that is the issue. The city needs to get proactive and set requirements ahead of time so it has some legs to stand on. Attempting to stop, or change any of these developments after it has already designed within existing zoning requirements is futile. But I suppose the city are too busy renaming things after former politicians to actually get work done.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 26 Jul 2017 12:19

City wide Zoning that Moves the surface parking lots away from the street front would do wonders for the walk-ability of city; too bad we're talking about a city that is inept when it comes Urban planning here.

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Matt777
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Matt777 » 26 Jul 2017 14:38

City is at fault here for investing MILLIONS to bring the streetcar to this intersection, and not changing zoning to make that investment payoff. They should have been proactive and changed zoning to an urban requirement. They have squandered our money long enough. CLEAN HOUSE.

They should immediately establish a radius zone around all DART Rail and streetcar stops with urban zoning requirements, severely limiting new surface parking and establishing guidelines for sidewalks and accessibility. Needs to be done yesterday.

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tamtagon
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby tamtagon » 26 Jul 2017 15:36

^word

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man or pacman
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby man or pacman » 26 Jul 2017 16:04

Anybody know what's going on with the Nazerian project? It looks like it's once again at a stand still even as AM and Crescent race to the finish on their large projects at Zang and Davis, and other smaller projects move forward around the BAD interior.

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R1070
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby R1070 » 26 Jul 2017 18:31

Has the council members in that area been engaged about zoning and such? I hope the neighborhood throws a fit. Enough is enough... the city needs to rezone so much of Central Dallas for today's standards.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 17 Aug 2017 17:16

Hearing lots of chatter about a grocery store announcement coming very soon. Central Market keeps getting mentioned for either Zang & Davis or Fort Worth Ave, but I'm still extremely skeptical.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 17 Aug 2017 19:27

That would be nice, but I'd be happier with a Sprouts. Central Market is for when I want to treat myself. Probably safer if it's farther away.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 17 Aug 2017 19:50

Why not HEB?

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 17 Aug 2017 20:59

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Why not HEB?


Question of the decade. I really wanted HEB for Wynnewood Village, or anywhere else in Oak Cliff along I-35, but this company is from San Antonio and people there think Dallas is the most pretentious place on earth. Makes sense that they would think we only want Central Market.

Ironically HEB stores used to be found anywhere, including the poorest parts of San Antonio (we called them ghetto-be, gucci-be, etc, depending on their location), but now they open new stores based on a brand growth/perception strategy.

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dukemeredith
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby dukemeredith » 22 Aug 2017 18:03

Here's that announcement, though somewhat anticlimactic:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... -oak-cliff

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 22 Aug 2017 20:30

dukemeredith wrote:Here's that announcement, though somewhat anticlimactic:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... -oak-cliff


Glad to see it confirmed, at least. People are starting to lose their patience with the Uptown site, so they need a much better response than "future expansion needs / evaluating options."

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dallaz
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby dallaz » 23 Aug 2017 13:32

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Why not HEB?
There's a lot of competition in the grocery market in Dallas. Dallas-Fort Worth is Walmart's #1 market with over 130 stores. In the San Antonio area, (where HEB is HQ'd and where it is #1 in their market) there's not even 40 Walmart stores. HEB just can't come in and build stores. Walmart is going to fight them tooth and nail. That's not including Kroger, Albertsons/Tom Thumb, etc. These grocery chains already have a leg up on HEB. It would take them a long time for them to make an impact on grocery chains that are well established.

They're being smart by expanding what works and not building a lot of stores that could potentially fail due to strong comepetion.

Mind you, Walmart is continuing to invest in their stores. They are renovating and building new stores all over the Metroplex. Walmart is literally building Neighborhood Markets down the street from their Supercenters to squash competition. Albertsons/Tom Thumb has opened newer stores in strategic locations and have more planned or under constrution. Discount grocer Aldi, announced plans to renovate and build new stores as well. Kroger lowered their prices again to attract more budget conscious shoppers. I honestly don't see them entering the market no time soon.

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Tucy
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tucy » 23 Aug 2017 14:10

dallaz wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Why not HEB?
There's a lot of competition in the grocery market in Dallas. Dallas-Fort Worth is Walmart's #1 market with over 130 stores. In the San Antonio area, (where HEB is HQ'd and where it is #1 in their market) there's not even 40 Walmart stores. HEB just can't come in and build stores. Walmart is going to fight them tooth and nail. That's not including Kroger, Albertsons/Tom Thumb, etc. These grocery chains already have a leg up on HEB. It would take them a long time for them to make an impact on grocery chains that are well established.

They're being smart by expanding what works and not building a lot of stores that could potintally fail due to strong comepetion.

Mind you, Walmart is continuing to invest in their stores. They are renovating and building new stores all over the Metroplex. Walmart is literally building Neighborhood Markets down the street from their Supercenters to squash competition. Albertsons/Tom Thumb has opened newer stores in strategic locations and have more planned or under constrution. Discount grocer Aldi, announced plans to renovate and build new stores as well. Kroger lowered their prices again to attract more budget conscious shoppers. I honestly don't see them entering the market no time soon.


Wow, who knew DFW was so big on shopping at Walmart ? But given the differences in market sizes between DFW and San Antonio, I'm not sure there is as much difference in the dominance of Walmart as you are suggesting.

According to Walmart's website, there are 138 in the Dallas Fort Worth area (within 50 miles; this actually leaves out a few that are technically in the metro area, but outside the 50 mile zone, so let's bring it up to 145 Walmarts in DFW); 49 in the San Antonio area. That gives the DFW area about 1 Walmart for every 50,000 people. San Antonio has 1 Walmart for every 52,000 people.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Dmkflyer » 23 Aug 2017 15:02

Also, H-E-B's Central Market division is based in Dallas.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby willyk » 23 Aug 2017 23:29

But there is no major grocery store near Bishop Arts--correct? So the location is a good bet for any store. The cultural fit between CM and the BA crowd is icing on the gluten free cake.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Aug 2017 09:23

I still don't expect to see any build anytime soon. Central Market/HEB has plenty of property in neighborhoods with well-established demographics and they are still very quiet on when a store might become real in those neighborhoods. Oak Cliff Bishop Arts will definitely be a market for them in the coming years but I doubt they see the numbers they want within the next 5 years. Sure Kessler Park is their market and the apartments nearby will feed them customers but I suspect this is just a continuing land grab so no one else gets the site. Let's just hope they partner with a developer so we also get apartments or office space or maybe a few other retail spots. I think it would be a great opportunity for a few office suites on top of the store. The view would be pretty nice towards downtown perched on top of an urban store with underground parking.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 08 Sep 2017 18:07

Looks like dirt has started moving on the CVS site in Bishop Arts. :(

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 13 Sep 2017 09:41

The Crescent property is starting to take shape. And I'm not sure why, but the southern Alamo Manhattan building is still a giant hole while the northern building is almost finished.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 22 Sep 2017 12:20

Bishop Highline progress posted on FB today.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 22 Sep 2017 12:54

Is that the one on Melba west of Bishop? It feels smaller in real life than it looks in the rendering. I like it though.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby worldwoh » 22 Sep 2017 14:05

ericthegardener wrote:Is that the one on Melba west of Bishop? It feels smaller in real life than it looks in the rendering. I like it though.


Top progress photo is west of Bishop , second photo is east of Bishop.

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Matt777
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Matt777 » 22 Sep 2017 19:15

lakewoodhobo wrote:Bishop Highline progress posted on FB today.

21765663_1512726262100034_5876556147246045812_o.jpg21688319_1512726268766700_6754966432901442928_o.jpg


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Wow, looks like they really cheapened the design show in the renderings. Cheap white framed windows and doors that look nothing like the industrial style ones in the renderings, the first floor configuration is completely different and missing the industrial style garage doors, and still no sign of the clerestory windows for the top of the building.

Here's an "updated" rendering from their facebook page. Looks like crap and the construction photos look like they're further cheapening the design. No wonder Oak Cliffers are wary of these developers.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 22 Sep 2017 20:12

Dude I hate when they bait n switch people. Another cheap development.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby LongonBigD » 22 Sep 2017 21:17

oops, I was going to comment about the missing streetcar, but I think that's a different property. This one is on a side street just east of Bishop???? Right?

If so, it's not spectacular, but it's infill.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 10 Oct 2017 13:53

First renderings of Bishop North Apartments. Per Crimson Building Company, "This project will consist of 247 high end apartment units over an underground podium garage with a resort style pool and other really cool amenities. It will be located in the heart of the Bishop Arts District and will be the first phase of several phases of high end apartments being brought to life at this location."

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worldwoh
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby worldwoh » 10 Oct 2017 14:16

lakewoodhobo wrote:First renderings of Bishop North Apartments. Per Crimson Building Company, "This project will consist of 247 high end apartment units over an underground podium garage with a resort style pool and other really cool amenities. It will be located in the heart of the Bishop Arts District and will be the first phase of several phases of high end apartments being brought to life at this location."


So do these renderings represent the apartment portion of the Nazerian development at Melba and Bishop? Or is this a separate, new residential development altogether? The building facades here look different from anything I've seen in the various Nazerian renderings (like those at bishoparts.com), but the description and the feel/color of these pictures from Crimson would suggest its the development at Melba and Bishop.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 10 Oct 2017 14:35

worldwoh wrote:So do these renderings represent the apartment portion of the Nazerian development at Melba and Bishop? Or is this a separate, new residential development altogether? The building facades here look different from anything I've seen in the various Nazerian renderings (like those at bishoparts.com), but the description and the feel/color of these pictures from Crimson would suggest its the development at Melba and Bishop.


Yes, this is the apartment portion of the Nazerian/Exxir development. The first rendering with the logo "Bishop North" matches the "Bishop Arts" logo used on the website. In the second rendering you can see the retail portion, which is phase 1.

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Matt777
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Matt777 » 10 Oct 2017 14:50

I love the uniqueness of the architecture, the attention to detail, the logo, the brickwork, the tile work. Great job! This should be an example to the developers slapping up crap.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 10 Oct 2017 15:02

So, what we're seeing in those new renders, what street will that be facing?

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby worldwoh » 10 Oct 2017 16:00

ericthegardener wrote:So, what we're seeing in those new renders, what street will that be facing?


This is a guess, but the large pedestrian walkway in front of the new row of buildings could be what is currently 9th street. I read at some point that the block of 9th st street between Bishop and Madison would be abandoned.

If that were the case (again, I'm just guessing), the row of buildings in this rendering could be South-facing, with the far-left glass structure anchoring the corner of Bishop and what was once 9th street, and the far-right brick structure on the corner of Madison and what was once 9th street.
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby buildingswithlegs » 10 Oct 2017 21:16

Looks a lil more "developer-y" than initially proposed. Which is okay, I guess, but Bishop Artsy types might not like it.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Dettmann1 » 11 Oct 2017 14:21

I'm actually a bigger fan of the new Bishop Highline building, the older design looked a little out of place. If I remember correctly, they received feedback from the city to not have the glass towers on the ends which is probably why those are gone. The building is still nearly all brick with pretty large windows.

Bishop North apartments looks really solid. I live nearby and most of the NIMBY's in the area are already poo pooing the new renders which I think is a solid project. I'm excited to see that one move forward and now that a contractor has been selected, I'm guessing dirt will be moving in short order on that one!

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 11 Oct 2017 15:11

Dettmann1 wrote:I'm guessing dirt will be moving in short order on that one!


I hope so! I like it too, though I'm not quite sure how it interacts with the street from those new renders. Looks like there's a field in front of it or something.


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