Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ One can only hope. Crossing fingers!
muncien wrote:The new stations don't provide service to anybody who couldn't already easily access an existing station.
The above-grade/below-grade argument is a farce. Everybody's darling of an 'urban city', Portland, is covered in at-grade light rail and streetcars, and the city thrives because of it, not in spite of it. Being at grade allows stops at nearly every block, while going underground limits you to a few stations. Pacific Ave's problems are related to the cores problems as a whole (more residents please!) and have nothing to do with the DART line.
The only benefit of going underground was to make the vehicular traffic above, happy. Success on that part. But, the insane cost of doing so will limit numerous other transit projects in the future. D2 as it stands now, is a net-loss for transit users.
muncien wrote:I have a dumb question that maybe someone on here can help with...
Is it possible for the Brooville Liberty streetcars to run on the the DART light-rail tracks? I believe they use the same rail gauge, but I know nothing about other specs such as voltage, height limits, etc.
I only ask because it seems like an at grade D2 along Canton (connecting just south of convention center) to Pearle/Chavez (connecting by East Transfer Station) would support by DART light rail needs as well as allow a circular streetcar route around the CBD.
Of course, there aint much along Canton now, but that will change in the future... and, leaving it out in the cold from a transit perspective just seems dumb.
Of course, a streetcar route through EMC should come much sooner...
electricron wrote:While the streetcars can run over DART's light rail tracks, why would you want to do so?Their floor heights are different, so all the platforms' heights will have to be changed again to allow level boarding. The streetcars have a much slower maximum speed, which could affect train scheduling, as the faster trains could get stuck behind the slower cars.
Realize they are built to different specifications for different purposes, and the rail corridors they run on are also different.
Having said that, I can see DART running streetcars on shared tracks for short distances with light rail trains, especially near downtown on the Bryan/Pacific street mall or something very similar. Platforms can be modified to make it worth. But before that can happen, light rail traffic on the shared route would have to be far less than what Bryan/Pacific has today.
muncien wrote:The only benefit of going underground was to make the vehicular traffic above, happy. Success on that part. But, the insane cost of doing so will limit numerous other transit projects in the future. D2 as it stands now, is a net-loss for transit users.
trueicon wrote:But possibly more importantly, there's the criminal/homeless element the above-ground stations downtown attract. Spend 30 seconds at West End Station and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'd go as far as to say that's one of the primary reasons the West End died as a major destination in the 90s (it's slowly coming back but still has a long way to go). We've been down that path before -- additional above-ground stations downtown would lead to the same outcome.
No thanks. Subway it is.
electricron wrote:trueicon wrote:But possibly more importantly, there's the criminal/homeless element the above-ground stations downtown attract. Spend 30 seconds at West End Station and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'd go as far as to say that's one of the primary reasons the West End died as a major destination in the 90s (it's slowly coming back but still has a long way to go). We've been down that path before -- additional above-ground stations downtown would lead to the same outcome.
No thanks. Subway it is.
Subway stations will attract more homeless than surface stations; they will be dryer when it rains, they will be warmer when it is cold, they will be cooler when it is hot, all by providing a roof over their heads. DART police will have to chase the homeless away every minute of every day - something they are not staffed for and are not prepared to do.
TNWE wrote:electricron wrote:That said, it's comical to suggest that the current at-grade alignment is the reason West End is a focal point for the homeless downtown, considering none of the other at-grade stations downtown attract the homeless element on that scale. The half a billion dollars DART could have saved by putting more of D2 at grade would pay for a lot of security- heck, they could convert the entire system to fare-controlled stations for less.
TNWE wrote:At one of the open houses, they mentioned DART wanting faregates for all of the subway stations at street level to cut down on loitering below ground level. Not sure how well that will work as one need only walk to a ground level station and connect to the Orange or Green line and soon find themselves in a subway station.
That said, it's comical to suggest that the current at-grade alignment is the reason West End is a focal point for the homeless downtown, considering none of the other at-grade stations downtown attract the homeless element on that scale. The half a billion dollars DART could have saved by putting more of D2 at grade would pay for a lot of security- heck, they could convert the entire system to fare-controlled stations for less.
Haretip wrote:Is the D2 alignment still proceeding?
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... xVO1UZAmKU
This also mentions extension of the streetcar to Knox Henderson.
Haretip wrote:Is the D2 alignment still proceeding?
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... xVO1UZAmKU
This also mentions extension of the streetcar to Knox Henderson.
cowboyeagle05 wrote:All I remember about the original route is when the Mayor decreed it needed to go by the City Owned Hotel and everyone pointed out how that was a no go but he insisted.
-The project is advancing towards 20% design, with completion of this milestone scheduled for March 2020
-DART is exploring the opportunity to move the Deep Ellum Station to just south of Live Oak Street to allow for continued rail service to this growing area
-Joint meetings between DART, City of Dallas, Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), and the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG) continue regularly, with a focus on how the D2 tunnel portal under IH 345 works with the various future options for IH 345
lakewoodhobo wrote:D2 newsletter is out: https://www.dart.org/ShareRoot/about/ex ... ly2019.pdf
Some highlights:-The project is advancing towards 20% design, with completion of this milestone scheduled for March 2020
-DART is exploring the opportunity to move the Deep Ellum Station to just south of Live Oak Street to allow for continued rail service to this growing area
-Joint meetings between DART, City of Dallas, Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), and the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG) continue regularly, with a focus on how the D2 tunnel portal under IH 345 works with the various future options for IH 345
A relocated station just south of Live Oak would serve the Latino Cultural Center and the new Tom Thumb.
Hannibal Lecter wrote:I wonder how many millions of $ it will cost to move it that 100 yards.
lakewoodhobo wrote:There's a chance, however unlikely, that moving the station would cost less than the current plan to remove it.
northsouth wrote:Would the Orange line run down through Union and Convention Center before heading north to Cityplace? The junction east of Pearl is already busy enough, without needing however many new switches and crossings to be added.
My feelings are that if a north-south line happens through downtown, it'd be better situated running under/along Akard and/or Ervay to Cadiz, south to the Texas Central station.
The Commerce Street Station proposed for Pegasus Park Plaza has a number of options, including a glass-encased subway entrance in the back of the park on Main Street next to the Magnolia Hotel; on AT&T's new campus; sidewalk entrances outside Main Street Alley near the Joule and Neiman Marcus; and two less favorable options by the Neiman Marcus parking garage.
Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) delivered its latest proposal for the second downtown rail alignment, dubbed D2. It’s a two-mile tunnel connecting Woodall Rogers Freeway to I-345 in Deep Ellum.
The proposed route would start by the Perot Museum and run along Griffin; turn and run east on Commerce; before turning north at Pearl to reach the East Transit Center. Five new stations include Museum Way, Metro Center, Commerce Street, CBD East, and a relocated Deep Ellum Station.
jsoto3 wrote:https://www.dart.org/meetings/publicmeetings.asp?ID=713
Notice of Public Meetings
D2 Subway - DART Second CBD Light Rail Alignment
The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) and Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) invite you to attend a public meeting about the D2 Subway, the proposed second light rail alignment through the Dallas Central Business District (CBD). DART is in the process of developing Preliminary Engineering (PE) and a Supplemental Draft Environmental Impact Statement (SDEIS) for this project.
The following information will be available at the meeting:
Project Background
Current status of:
Project Alignment Design
Station Design Concepts, including Access Locations
Environmental Analyses
Urban Design Concepts
Your input is important as we continue to advance the design and develop the environmental document.
Two public meetings will be held on:
Wednesday, November 13, 2019
11:30 a.m. Open House / 12 p.m. Presentation
6:00 p.m. Open House / 6:30 p.m. Presentation
DART Headquarters - Board Room
1401 Pacific Avenue
Dallas, TX 75202
The same information will be provided at each meeting, and the presentation will be made available immediately following the meetings at DART.org/D2. Learn more and subscribe to project updates at this website.
For Additional Information
Please contact DART Community Engagement at 214-749-2543, or visit DART.org/D2.
dzh wrote:Am I really the only one who seems to think an above ground train through Victory Park is a bad idea? I just can't see this working well. I really hope I'm wrong. Maybe there's something I don't understand that hasn't been explained to me yet?
electricron wrote:dzh wrote:Am I really the only one who seems to think an above ground train through Victory Park is a bad idea? I just can't see this working well. I really hope I'm wrong. Maybe there's something I don't understand that hasn't been explained to me yet?
The land under Victory Park is fill, made up of small and large rocks and sand. The only way to tunnel in the Victory Park area is to dig an open trench then cover it. Once D2 reaches Woodall Rogers the land under downtown Dallas is shale. Easy to tunnel with a boring machine, and cheaper to do. Laying tracks at the surface within city streets is going to take time, with the street closed to traffic for a while. Digging a trench then covering it will close the street for a year or more - two to three times longer.
If you were a city leader or real estate developer, would you rather have your street closed on and off or completed closed for more than a year?What they are doing makes far more sense than you might think.
dd_dweller wrote:How is this going to play out now that Uber is planning on building around the lots that the rail is going to cut through? Are the business that are currently in place going to be torn down? It's a bit confusing because this plan is do dated that new buildings and businesses have gone up in the time they've secured a route. That part of DE has evolved and still growing.
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