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Reverchon Park

lakewoodhobo
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Reverchon Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 26 Jan 2018 15:34

If you've ever wanted to run Dallas' oldest, most beloved field of dreams, here's your chance

More than a year after the park board initially agreed it could no longer give the park the love or money it deserves, the Park and Recreation Department issued a request for proposals last week looking for someone to operate and maintain the Reverchon ball field. Not just run, either, but remake from scratch.

And then there's this from the requests: A new operator will have to "demolish all existing field, buildings, fences and parking that are associated with the existing ball field." Which means the historic grandstands, almost a century old, will eventually be razed, unless they fall down first.


I love history and all, but I wonder if this is worth preserving. I still want to see minor league baseball come to downtown Dallas (Reunion); this site would make for a great outdoor theater or band shell for music festivals. Maybe I'm totally off, IDK.

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muncien
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby muncien » 26 Jan 2018 15:51

Parking and access to that portion of the park has always been a pain. I remember seeing this grumpy lady walking up and down taking pictures of cars parked illegally, and threatening people. The police never seemed to mind...

Anyways... The field always seem to be the least used portion of the park (not counting occasional drug deal or 'hook up'). I wouldn't be terribly sad to see it removed permanently.

Im still holding out hope that they come to their senses and convert half that creek tunnel under DNT into a bike path to connect to the Cedars, instead of that obnoxiously expensive bike bridge they keep throwing around...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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flyswatter
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby flyswatter » 26 Jan 2018 15:54

Considering it's proximity to Uptown, I think having a legit concert venue or even a festival like FPSF in Houston would be killer here.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 26 Jan 2018 16:01

flyswatter wrote:Considering it's proximity to Uptown, I think having a legit concert venue or even a festival like FPSF in Houston would be killer here.


There was an indie festival scheduled there in 2016 called bulladora. But it got rained out and cancelled! I had tickets to see Alunageorge too....I was pissed!

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muncien
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby muncien » 03 Jul 2018 11:40

I don't really follow baseball (can't all the handle the excitement), so I don't know if this is really news or not. I'm just surprised it hasn't shown up here.
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/sports/Downtown-Dallas-Will-Soon-Be-Home-to-Pro-Baseball--You-Can-Help-Name-the-Team-487156051.html

Dallas Will Soon Be Home to Pro Baseball & You Can Help Name the Team!

Southwest League officials were in Dallas last week, where the city council voted to approve a 30-year lease agreement with Reverchon Sports and Entertainment (RSE), LLC. RSE, along with architects and Suffolk Construction, will design and built the multi-purpose venue for the city.

RSE will own and operate the professional minor league team at Reverchon Park.

Though the Texas Rangers are close by, Dallas is the largest city in the country without a professional baseball team inside city limits.
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tamtagon
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby tamtagon » 03 Jul 2018 12:08

muncien wrote:Dallas Will Soon Be Home to Pro Baseball & You Can Help Name the Team!


It's about time! and this is such a better location for a minor league team that some of the near-misses from a decade ago pushing for Farmers Market, Cedars and/or Reunion Arena area.... Fair Park would be great for a minor league team, too.

I vote for the name Dallas Queens.

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 03 Jul 2018 14:19

I suggested Dallas Esquires
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muncien
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby muncien » 03 Jul 2018 15:28

I'd prefer "Dallas Divas" over Queens...

But I could also go for 'Dystopia', 'Dysfunctional', 'Dysuria', 'Discord', 'Distraught', 'Disturbed', etc...

This could get fun!
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

Tnexster
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby Tnexster » 03 Jul 2018 17:15

I much prefer this to having the rangers move into the city, this is perfect. For local residents, you can even walk on the Katy Trail to go to a game and stop at a local restaurant or bar on the way home. I can't wait to see what kind of local support the team gets.

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uptown74
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Re: Cityplace West/West Village: Residential Tower (~250 FT / 23 ST) / Hilton Canopy (8 ST)

Postby uptown74 » 04 Jul 2018 21:25

Matt777 wrote:Maybe a combined Rustic/Mutts can be re-accommodated permanently on city owned park land somewhere else in Uptown, with a long term land lease from the city. Reverchon Park seems to have some underutilized land that could work.

If not, I wouldn't mind seeing them move to East Dallas into an empty land near the Ross and Haskell vicinity. This area has so much empty land that could be redeveloped.

---


Looks like Reverchon Park wont be underutilized for long when/if this happens. I wonder how much of the park this proposed venue will take up? I think they already have a small baseball field in the back somewhere......

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/sports/Down ... 56051.html

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Matt777
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Re: Cityplace West/West Village: Residential Tower (~250 FT / 23 ST) / Hilton Canopy (8 ST)

Postby Matt777 » 04 Jul 2018 23:42

uptown74 wrote:
Matt777 wrote:Maybe a combined Rustic/Mutts can be re-accommodated permanently on city owned park land somewhere else in Uptown, with a long term land lease from the city. Reverchon Park seems to have some underutilized land that could work.

If not, I wouldn't mind seeing them move to East Dallas into an empty land near the Ross and Haskell vicinity. This area has so much empty land that could be redeveloped.

---


Looks like Reverchon Park wont be underutilized for long when/if this happens. I wonder how much of the park this proposed venue will take up? I think they already have a small baseball field in the back somewhere......

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/sports/Down ... 56051.html


What a waste. We already have a popular DFW area baseball team, and this venue will likely be utilized very little, only on game days during baseball season. It will be a dead zone the vast majority of the time, whereas a Mutts/Rustic like venue would be active and lively every day. Once again, our city leadership fails us.

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Re: Cityplace West/West Village: Residential Tower (~250 FT / 23 ST) / Hilton Canopy (8 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 05 Jul 2018 08:11

I guess I am the only one that follows the news cause I've been following this project for months.

The reason this is happening is that the ballpark already at Reverchon is collapsing into the ground and needs to be replaced because it is currently almost completely useless. Largely because the city has not invested any maintenance money to it other than mowing the grass. The city put out bids over a year ago for a private company to build a new baseball field here and operate it along with providing field time to high schools, neighborhood groups etc. What the city got was a better offer for a team to actually call it home. So now we have a private group that is going to build a very nice medium tier baseball field for a professional team which will make it used in addition to scheduling the field with local groups and high school teams, events etc. Plus it will have access to the Katy Trail so people from all over Uptown will easily be able to walk down to see games at an affordable price. I'm on board.
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tamtagon
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby tamtagon » 05 Jul 2018 09:09

Dallas Damn-It!

What's going to happen if the Southwest League doesn't make it? Look like there's a grand total of four teams lined up, each to play 112 games in the inaugural 2019 season. I'd love to see the league grow landing perhaps a couple dozen team in cities around the South Central US. A small but potent source of civic pride!

We'll see what happens, but getting the Reverchon stadium repaired is fantastic. The best thing that could happen to the park would be a rebuild of the Tollway and Harry Hines and I-35 allowing Turtle Creek to actually flow above ground to the Design District and Reverchon to reclaim parkland that was lost during the glory days of traffic lane construction.

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TreeFrog
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby TreeFrog » 31 Oct 2018 16:57

Reverchon ballpark re-do not set in stone yet
https://www.dallasvoice.com/reverchon-b ... stone-yet/

The parks department has an agreement with owners of a minor league baseball team to upgrade the baseball field. The new ballpark will have more amenities and seat more people, but will sit on the same footprint as the current field.

No parking will be added, Moreno said, and none of the park’s green space will be taken up by a paved lot. Instead, the city is negotiating with surrounding office buildings and other facilities to use their lots for events, Moreno said.

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby itsjrd1964 » 15 Mar 2019 16:36

'The best little ballpark in Dallas' strikes out on its 100th birthday after promised Reverchon redo goes nowhere

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... es-nowhere

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby itsjrd1964 » 12 Dec 2019 21:50

No thanks, Donnie Nelson: Dallas turns down $10 million plan to renovate historic Reverchon Park

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/comment ... all-field/

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muncien
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby muncien » 13 Dec 2019 09:25

itsjrd1964 wrote:No thanks, Donnie Nelson: Dallas turns down $10 million plan to renovate historic Reverchon Park

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/comment ... all-field/


We are a stupid, stupid city sometimes...
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Dec 2019 13:03

I know someone who went to the city meeting and was proud of the decision made he didn't care about previous proposals or that any final designs would still need to be approved by the parks department. He was more informed than most but many assumed the park would be massively paved over for large swaths of parking. That kind of fear probably drove a number of people to email and overwhelm in some form. I would think the orgs like Friends of Katy Trail that weighed in would help balance that out but sounds like a general fear overtook the meeting and swept away rational thinking skills. They weren't going to pave over the park here and the meadow talk was something that could ultimately be removed if the parks board didn't agree with it.
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muncien
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby muncien » 13 Dec 2019 13:36

Riverchon has always been my favorite park in Dallas. Even years after moving out of the city center I still return to this park from time to time. The natural beauty, tree canopy, topography, water, 'ruins', make the place stand out from nearly all other parks.
But that field area has been in shambles. Honestly, I'm not even sure an athletic field is the best use of that area anyway. It has been the parks weak link for as long as I have lived here. Maybe a lawn for casual sporting and perhaps a small event stage would work... Dallas also needs a serious skate park badly... But I'd prefer that go under I345 if that doesn't end up coming down.
And please... please... explore converting one of the creek tunnels into a pathway under Harry Hines and connect to Trinity Strand tunnel. And stop the madness of trying to build an overly expensive, twirling about, elevated bike path, that we all know will never actually get funded.
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Dec 2019 14:44

Yeah, there is definitely an ongoing battle over our urban parks having sports facilities. There seems to be a very divided public who is against sporting fields in public parks vs just a grassy lawn for dogs and people to do hang out in. Neighborhood leagues and sports fields for their use are an important thing to maintain access to in urban areas but there seems to be plenty of NIMBYISM about it. They already had a war over removing the sporting fields from Griggs Park a few years ago.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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dontbringmedown
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby dontbringmedown » 13 Dec 2019 17:39

Second on the bike tunnel idea. Way better than the current proposal I saw recently go under 35 @ Victory and put a pedestrian bridge down Hi Line Blvd.
There's a lot of underutilized space in Reverchon. I don't mind ballfields because you can use the space for more than one kind of sport but it takes a toll on the playing surface. Maybe upgrade to turf?
Never really liked how the "natural-looking" part of Turtle Creek just ends in Reverchon before diving under the DNT/I-35 to reach the Trinity. Definitely room to do something better here.
At the intersection of Oak Lawn, Victory Park, Hillwood District, and Design District should be a rockstar park. Instead we have an underutilized Reverchon and way too many high-speed roads.

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Matt777
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby Matt777 » 14 Dec 2019 10:42

It's a sad realization that instead of saying the city should fix what's broken, that everyone resorts to "let's privatize it" and at the same time reduce park land in THE most embarrassingly under-parked major city in America. Even Houston, HOUSTON, slams Dallas in this respect.

Everyone knows that Reverchon's baseball stadium needs to be demolished. That doesn't mean the only answer is a sweetheart deal with a private entity that reduces already precious park space. There aren't big, cheap swaths of land in Uptown/Oak Lawn where the city can place new parks. Every square foot is precious because we are not going to get any more.

Killing this deal doesn't mean we won't see improvements at Reverchon, much to the Dallas Morning News chagrin. It means the city will have to do it (as they should) instead of passing the buck to a private entity with other motives in mind. If something is neglected and needs to be fixed, bark at the city government, not citizens who don't want park space reduced. It just shows the terrible state of affairs in our city government when every time something needs fixing the barking dogs come out with their needles slapping their forearms and begging for some of that good private entity money fix. It can be, but is not always the best solution, sorry.

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby tamtagon » 14 Dec 2019 11:16

^word

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 14 Dec 2019 14:35

I take issue with the idea that putting a new baseball facility in Reverchron that a private entity can use from time to time takes away park land. It enhances it and the park board was very upfront about not paving over Reverchron for parking lots and these proposals didn't propose that at all so I am confused as to why there is a suggestion that following through takes away park land. The land itself would be owned by the city still as well so it's not like they are selling off the park.

Do I agree that I would love to see the city invest in its assets properly yes of course. The reality is there seems to be confusion on how badly a baseball facility is actually needed outside of what the Dallas Eagles would use it. Is there enough demand from local smaller teams like local leagues to see some sort of facility here? The city tends to invest where there is pressure to invest and beyond the sheer fact that a barely functioning baseball filed is already there is there enough teams to warrant access here.
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Matt777
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby Matt777 » 14 Dec 2019 16:39

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I take issue with the idea that putting a new baseball facility in Reverchron that a private entity can use from time to time takes away park land. It enhances it and the park board was very upfront about not paving over Reverchron for parking lots and these proposals didn't propose that at all so I am confused as to why there is a suggestion that following through takes away park land. The land itself would be owned by the city still as well so it's not like they are selling off the park.

Do I agree that I would love to see the city invest in its assets properly yes of course. The reality is there seems to be confusion on how badly a baseball facility is actually needed outside of what the Dallas Eagles would use it. Is there enough demand from local smaller teams like local leagues to see some sort of facility here? The city tends to invest where there is pressure to invest and beyond the sheer fact that a barely functioning baseball filed is already there is there enough teams to warrant access here.


This privatization deal literally reduced park space by increasing the land area of the park dedicated to the baseball facility, all while rolling the dice on the rest of the park by privatizing it to this "nonprofit." Yes, the city would still own the land, but the park would be run by the private entity.

THEN, at the last minute, the RFP changed with no time to properly review and the nonprofit proposed eating up even more of the park for a "special abilities" field, further reducing park space and proving the naysayer's point that handing the park off to a private entity was a huge gamble for the surrounding neighborhood because we no longer knew what to expect. No traffic study, no environmental impact study, just trying to cram another private partnership through the process with as little transparency as possible. Everything I expected when Johnson won the mayoral seat.

The deal was half baked, vague, and became increasingly risky. It was very smart of the council to reject it and the only thing that surprised me was support by Chad West, who usually has better judgement.

Naturally, some of the loudest voices in support of privatizing Reverchon came from North Dallas council members, who represent people who mostly don't care about anything public nor anything beyond the single family lot boundaries of their tract house. It doesn't matter to them that one of the only parks available to Uptown/Oak Lawn residents would be privatized and the dice would be rolled for the impact to those nearby residents. The suburban districts get their sports team, some of their buddies back's scratched, and no direct impact to access to their parks. I would have loved to have seen Kleinman's opinion change if this minor league baseball stadium was proposed as stealing a park next to once of the tract subdivisions he represents. He would have faced a mutiny by North Dallasites.

On top of it all, I'm surprised that the $10 million investment by the nonprofit was seen as such a positive. $10 million is a drop in the bucket in the long term especially when it requires giving away control of one of the urban core's only large parks.

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muncien
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby muncien » 16 Dec 2019 10:59

^^^
You have much more faith in this city govt than I do. :?
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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casperitl
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby casperitl » 16 Dec 2019 11:14

Would like to have seen a traffic study done before it was brought forth to the City Council. The interim Park Director John Jenkins did not provide one.

I rarely see the merits of public meetings for plans like this. The developers and city staff never take the public opinion into their decision process during the design phase. But, that being said it would be a necessity of a project like this on park land to have public meetings to engage citizens.

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sterling
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby sterling » 04 Jan 2020 00:37

casperitl wrote:Would like to have seen a traffic study done before it was brought forth to the City Council. The interim Park Director John Jenkins did not provide one.


Does Dallas ever have anyone in "Parks" who's not interim? Must be a terrible "going nowhere" position.

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OrangeMike
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby OrangeMike » 04 Jan 2020 12:17

Looks like the "civility" folks on the City Council are going to try to pass the giveaway again.

Schutze posted this Observer blurb:
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/blewett-filed-for-revote-on-reverchon-forgot-to-tell-us-11837199

He added more details on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/jim.schutze/posts/10219369460658573

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 04 Jan 2020 13:12

sterling wrote:Does Dallas ever have anyone in "Parks" who's not interim? Must be a terrible "going nowhere" position.


He's filling in for Willis Winters who just retired after 7 years in the position, and 20+ years with the department.

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casperitl
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby casperitl » 06 Jan 2020 10:09

sterling wrote:
casperitl wrote:Would like to have seen a traffic study done before it was brought forth to the City Council. The interim Park Director John Jenkins did not provide one.


Does Dallas ever have anyone in "Parks" who's not interim? Must be a terrible "going nowhere" position.


The good ones always leave. The bad ones stay.

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LuvBigD
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby LuvBigD » 06 Jan 2020 12:32

OrangeMike wrote:Looks like the "civility" folks on the City Council are going to try to pass the giveaway again.

Schutze posted this Observer blurb:
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/blewett-filed-for-revote-on-reverchon-forgot-to-tell-us-11837199

He added more details on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/jim.schutze/posts/10219369460658573


It looks like Blewitt blew it and wants to redo it!

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 08 Jan 2020 09:52

Still don't understand why this has to be a for-profit sports and entertainment venue when it's clear that to be profitable you need X amount of seats which means X amount of cars and parking spaces, even with rideshare and trail access. The city needs to either abandon the baseball diamond or renovate it with public funds and continue to run it at a loss as a park amenity.

I don't like the term "giveaway" that one of the sides is using in this debate, but if I used Reverchon on a regular basis I know that it would be unavailable for me to enjoy when some of the bigger events take place, so it's not all that far-fetched.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 08 Jan 2020 21:50

Better yet just get rid of the baseball field and add more park!

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Jan 2020 10:04

At this point, I am fully supportive of getting rid of the ballpark and shaking out this mess altogether.
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby The_Overdog » 09 Jan 2020 10:40

I thought I saw a story on the news that said they revoted and the same deal passed, 7-4. They said the yearly rent for the stadium would be $30k, which is a huge giveaway.

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Jan 2020 12:51

Yeah, it passed. Candys Dirt has a fairly extensive article going through the whole meeting.

https://candysdirt.com/2020/01/09/david ... pposition/

A council member even asked for a delay on the vote so community meetings could be held and the motion failed so apparently the council members who were against it the first time were pulled inline with enough campaign donations.

Before the vote was taken, District 2 council member Adam Medrano, in whose district this largely resides, made the motion to hold the vote for another month so that community outreach could be conducted. He said that an overarching message of those opposed was a lack of information and the city should grant them a month to conduct those meetings (and perhaps change some minds). His motion failed with only five supporting votes. District 1 council member Chad West (Oak Cliff) was the only one to support a 30-day wait, and then go on to vote for the Blewett amendment.
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 10 Jan 2020 00:15

Boooo....watch them add a hulking garage to the property.

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby tamtagon » 10 Jan 2020 06:24

^I would be more than okay if the Reverchon Recreation Center & parking got torn down, dug out and replaced with a parking garage podium, three(ish) stories of new recreation center, gym, community resource center and green rooftop park.

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby muncien » 10 Jan 2020 10:24

tamtagon wrote:^I would be more than okay if the Reverchon Recreation Center & parking got torn down, dug out and replaced with a parking garage podium, three(ish) stories of new recreation center, gym, community resource center and green rooftop park.


That rec center has been such a dump for oh so long. I can't disagree... But I have little faith in the city being able to pull off such a feat. I'm sure sure a public/private partnership could get something solid in place, but probably not worth the pitchforks that will no doubt come out.
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 Jan 2020 15:01

Keep in mind the final plan still has to be approved by the park board. So if they want to throw in a parking garage the Park Board will still have to approve. All that was approved was an outline of a concept.
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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby OrangeMike » 07 Feb 2020 12:40

Neighbors Set To Sue Dallas over Reverchon Park Deal
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/neighbors-set-to-sue-over-reverchon-ballpark-deal-11865073

In the suit, which, according to county records, had yet to be filed Thursday night, the neighbors argue the city violated state law by failing to allow appropriate public input on the deal and didn't search for a "feasible and prudent alternative" to the deal prior to agreeing to it.

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Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 19 Mar 2020 13:44

Some worthy of discussion updates on the proposal that the city approved for the ballpark at Reverchon Park. There is a lot of details in this article so I would follow the link and read through it for what you are interested in. Parking was one of my biggest concerns since many kept claiming they were proposing a parking garage which was not true.

https://candysdirt.com/2020/03/18/rever ... documents/


Why the rush to approve?
“…if the agreement was not approved before January 2020, RPSE was concerned that this would affect the permitting process and delay them beyond their start date for baseball league play in 2021. A delay of two months as proposed at the December meeting would place RPSE in a position of not being able to begin the permitting process until possibly April or May and would then put the timeline for beginning construction behind schedule. We have assured RPSE the City’s permitting process will be completed in a timely manner to meet their opening needs.”

...

Parking
There are currently 30 parking spaces and no new parking will be constructed. However, “RPSE projects that over 50% of attendees to the ball games and other events will walk/bike into the park from the surrounding neighborhoods.”

That still leaves over 1,000 attendees on average who will likely drive to each event with 30 on-site parking spaces available. To deal with this, documentation said that they’re “Developing agreements with:

Scottish Rite: 850+ spaces
3500 Maple/Parkside Tower: 600 spaces
Concord 2/Balfour Beatty: 600 spaces
Jon’s Translation: While this seems like plenty of spaces, it’s safe to assume not all spaces will be available at all times. I don’t know Scottish Rite’s traffic patterns, but the two commercial buildings would likely only be available evenings and weekends. The neighborhood should ensure that event planning coincides with parking availability.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 1551
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: Reverchon Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 19 Mar 2020 17:31

Why do we want to destroy reverchon park's quaint nature for some minor league team no one cares about again?

Donnie Nelson should go destroy ..I mean... Re-vamp... Mavs Ball Park over reverchon park.

DPatel304
Posts: 1812
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49
Location: Turtle Creek

Re: Reverchon Park

Postby DPatel304 » 19 Mar 2020 18:55

I went out for a walk today, and I've never seen so many people out and about just enjoying the outdoors (and not being glued to their phones). It's unfortunate what the world is going through at the moment, but this is a bit of a silver lining here. It really felt like new people were discovering the city they live in for once.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 2361
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: Reverchon Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Mar 2020 12:18

Yet that wandering around the park is dangerous too honestly. Our parks rarely have enough space to properly give safe refuge. Reverchron Park is popular because it is quite beautiful and connects to the Katy Trail but too many people are using the trail to be operating healthy distance. SO honestly people do need to practice walking our crappy sidewalks rather than the trail and parks.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”


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