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Deep Ellum 1.0

DPatel304
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Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 04 Nov 2016 17:48

This is a continuation of the old general Deep Ellum thread we had going on the old forum. I can't remember the exact name of the old one, but I figured I'd just go with the same format we have going for the Victory Park thread.

Anyway, I started this because I found out there are plans to open a hostel in Deep Ellum:
Two entrepreneurs from Austin plan to open Deep Ellum Hostel in summer 2017 next-door to Serious Pizza at Elm and Crowdus streets. The owners already converted a 19th-century firehouse in Austin into a hostel three years ago.

"We really want to reflect the culture of Deep Ellum and highlight the unique history," co-owner Collin Ballard says. "It's always been a melting pot."

http://www.guidelive.com/dallas/2016/11 ... 7-a-hostel

I don't know how significant this is. In my experience, hostels are generally used by international travelers, so with DFW having such a great airport and now you can get to this hostel via DART, I'm sure it'll make the city at least slightly more attractive to some international travelers.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby The_Overdog » 07 Nov 2016 10:15

I don't know how significant this is. In my experience, hostels are generally used by international travelers


Since it takes the city of Dallas from zero hostels to one, I'd say pretty significant. Irving has one but not Dallas? What's up with that? And I think it opens up a cool area to not just international travelers but more generally young people.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 07 Nov 2016 11:16

I've never understood the absence of hostels from Dallas, especially Deep Ellum. It's the sort of accommodation seems like city would have refused to allow, but I do not think that's the case. Reminds me of an anecdote from the mid 90s, Deep Ellum was jamming, a noted national scene, Jamiroquai was becoming popular and set to play Trees.... an acquaintance was helping show the band around town the day before performing, and a billboard for a nightclub/danceclub along Central (I don't remember the name of the place, but is was kinda near Northpark, very North Dallas Pretentious) got the band curious, so they all went to the club that evening. Jamiroquai was refused entry because they were dressed all weird. My acquaintance proved the near-celebrity status of the band and then they were allowed to pay and enter. Totally unconfirmed and even funnier is that I heard this dance club was playing one of Jamiroquai's hits at the time.

I think that teen-angst behavior shows something about why Dallas does not have a hostel.

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 07 Nov 2016 14:52

This is great news and it will hopefully pave the way for more hostels. Deep Ellum is a perfect place, and proximity to DART lines is key. I'm still in my 20's and I sometimes stay in hostels when I'm in Europe, and they are a delightful and budget friendly option. It's important to have staff that know the city well and can make recommendations on what to see/do/eat. "Hi! Hostels" is a chain I could see opening up in Dallas as they already have Austin and Houston locations. I wish them tons of success!

DPatel304
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 10 Nov 2016 13:39

A multimillion-dollar investment was made by Westdale Properties in the restoration of these properties. The buildings were mostly erected in the 1930s and 1940s, used at the time for retail, office, and service businesses. The remodel includes the carving out of a corridor into the 2618 Elm St. space that connects Main Street to Elm.

In addition, Deep Ellum received $1.6 million in tax increment financing (TIF) funding from the city of Dallas. This allowed for civil upgrades to utilities, pedestrian access, public space, and beautification.

You know this is big stuff when there's a ribbon-cutting. On November 11 at 10 am, city council member Adam Medrano, Dallas officials, and the Deep Ellum Foundation will be joined by Dallas-based construction and engineering firm C1S and other players responsible for these restoration efforts in a ribbon-cutting ceremony and open house event at 115 Malcolm X Blvd.

http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... owe-baker/

This will make quite a difference to the area. Looks like there will be four new restaurants opening in the next few months, but it seemed like there will be space for more than that when it's all said and done. I can't seem to find any information on the complete plan.

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby willyk » 10 Nov 2016 20:44


DPatel304
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 11 Nov 2016 10:42

^Thanks! Looks like there are still a lot of spots to be filled.

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gshelton91
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby gshelton91 » 14 Nov 2016 09:02

Lots of great things going on in Deep Ellum... went to Stir weekend before last they did a great job rehabbing the old Art Bar space. Deep Ellum still needs a Parking Garage really bad to handle all the cars...

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 14 Nov 2016 11:10

gshelton91 wrote:Deep Ellum still needs a Parking Garage really bad to handle all the cars...


Strongly disagree here. There are two DART rail stations within walking distance, and it is close enough to Downtown and Uptown for people to bike or Uber as well.

Last thing we need is to encourage more people to drive here. If there are too many cars, people will simply just opt to use some other mode of transportation.

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dukemeredith
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dukemeredith » 14 Nov 2016 11:38

If additional parking is required, a great place to put it would be at Elm, Hawkins, and Pacific -- with first floor retail to further connect downtown to Deep Ellum.

Of course, I'm sure whoever owns that empty lot is waiting to see if the freeway is coming down. Then that land would be exponentially more valuable.

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xen0blue
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby xen0blue » 14 Nov 2016 13:54

Matt777 wrote:This is great news and it will hopefully pave the way for more hostels. Deep Ellum is a perfect place, and proximity to DART lines is key. I'm still in my 20's and I sometimes stay in hostels when I'm in Europe, and they are a delightful and budget friendly option. It's important to have staff that know the city well and can make recommendations on what to see/do/eat. "Hi! Hostels" is a chain I could see opening up in Dallas as they already have Austin and Houston locations. I wish them tons of success!


You are 100% correct. HiHostels would work great here. Last I checked, there was 1 hostel in DFW which was in Irving, nowhere near any rail lines and a horrible place for a backpacker who can't afford a hotel, let alone a rental car to get there. This location in DE should be perfect.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 15 Nov 2016 09:41

The Deep Ellum Foundation is talking with the city about taking over operating the city-owned lots under I-345 to make them more efficient and effect. There's also an effort to create a pooled valet parking service for the restaraunts. Scott Rohrman's outfit, 42 Real Estate, has mentioned building a parking garage south of Canton.

As for the DART rail, pretty much the only folks who use that to visit Deep Ellum are a handful of families with kids during the day on weekends and the "bad guys" at night. Almost every crime report in the area ends with "The suspects were last seen headed towards the DART rail station." And no, I am not exaggerating.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 Nov 2016 11:48

There's tons of parking. As a Matter of fact I never pay for parking. All you have to do is park your car nowhere near the commotion and walk. I always leave my ride at Central square park. And just walk. It's approximately 5-9 min walk. People are lazy. Don't accomdate laziness.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tnexster » 16 Nov 2016 23:12

Deep faith: Deep Ellum update brings more restaurants, bars, hope

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/rest ... -bars-hope

The development, which is still in its formative stage, carved nine new spaces from five existing buildings, some of them 80 years old. All are in the 2800 block of either Elm or Main streets near the corner of Malcolm X Boulevard. The total project measures 30,000 square feet.

Seven spaces already have been leased to barkeeps and restaurateurs including Cindy and Jim Hughes, owners of the popular Bread Winners chain.

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thedogisnova
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby thedogisnova » 02 Dec 2016 11:03

This morning at 2500 Pacific
Work Description: NEW CONSTRUCTION OF COMMERCIAL OFFICE AND PARKING STRUCTURE
Doing business as: WESTSIDE

Seems to indicate 16 stories.
I believe that address is actually the Grainger lot


Happy Friday

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dollaztx
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dollaztx » 02 Dec 2016 13:45

thedogisnova wrote:This morning at 2500 Pacific
Work Description: NEW CONSTRUCTION OF COMMERCIAL OFFICE AND PARKING STRUCTURE
Doing business as: WESTSIDE

Seems to indicate 16 stories.
I believe that address is actually the Grainger lot


Happy Friday


If that happens it would be great to see a highrise on the other side of 75.

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theoryNine
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby theoryNine » 02 Dec 2016 16:04

Hannibal Lecter wrote:As for the DART rail, pretty much the only folks who use that to visit Deep Ellum are a handful of families with kids during the day on weekends and the "bad guys" at night. Almost every crime report in the area ends with "The suspects were last seen headed towards the DART rail station." And no, I am not exaggerating.


What? I agree with the crime report part at the end, but the rest just isn't true. I use DART to ride into Deep Ellum multiple times a week, the people coming in on it are a very mixed bag. Regardless, people keep choosing to drive into Deep Ellum because parking is readily available. Adding parking will only exacerbate that, further encouraging more people to drive into the area to crowd the already crowded streets. Plus, Uber and Lyft autonomous ride-hailing should take a lot of pressure off of parking within the next 5 years.

More emphasis on better connecting pedestrian and bike infrastructure needs to be a priority to allow people to comfortably get in and out without their cars, especially since the core neighborhoods are going to have thousands of new apartments coming online in the next couple of years, but I don't think enabling more people to come drink and drive off should be our priority, not in 2016 with all the changes coming in the next few years.

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dd_dweller
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dd_dweller » 12 Dec 2016 11:45

I saw a drilling truck today at the Epic location. Maybe they're getting ready to start construction on a portion of the project.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 12 Dec 2016 22:27

dd_dweller wrote:I saw a drilling truck today at the Epic location. Maybe they're getting ready to start construction on a portion of the project.


Let's hope so. The Epic would really change that area near i345 and Deep Ellum.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 22 Dec 2016 01:30

Hide will be what Backlund calls a "cocktail lab" that makes drinks with tools such as a centrifuge, dehydrator and carbonator. The former baseball player and first-time bar owner was inspired to bring the concept to Dallas after visiting Booker and Dax in New York City, which employed similar techniques under the direction of Dave Arnold, director of culinary technology at the French Culinary Institute at the International Culinary Center in New York, and founder of the Museum of Food and Drink. Arnold is also an inventor and author.

http://www.guidelive.com/food-and-drink ... -libations

Some detailed information on "Hide", opening in Jan as a part of the Westdale development.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 22 Dec 2016 10:58

I'm exhausted just reading that small blurb about craft cocktails. Yeah, I won't be going there at all.

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gshelton91
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby gshelton91 » 22 Dec 2016 13:58

theoryNine wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:As for the DART rail, pretty much the only folks who use that to visit Deep Ellum are a handful of families with kids during the day on weekends and the "bad guys" at night. Almost every crime report in the area ends with "The suspects were last seen headed towards the DART rail station." And no, I am not exaggerating.


What? I agree with the crime report part at the end, but the rest just isn't true. I use DART to ride into Deep Ellum multiple times a week, the people coming in on it are a very mixed bag. Regardless, people keep choosing to drive into Deep Ellum because parking is readily available. Adding parking will only exacerbate that, further encouraging more people to drive into the area to crowd the already crowded streets. Plus, Uber and Lyft autonomous ride-hailing should take a lot of pressure off of parking within the next 5 years.

More emphasis on better connecting pedestrian and bike infrastructure needs to be a priority to allow people to comfortably get in and out without their cars, especially since the core neighborhoods are going to have thousands of new apartments coming online in the next couple of years, but I don't think enabling more people to come drink and drive off should be our priority, not in 2016 with all the changes coming in the next few years.


I do agree connecting all the new apartments/condos in the near Downtown Area by public transit or pedestrian/bike is very important and should be a great source of business for Deep Ellum. But I still think a dedicated parking structure designed to replace the existing surface lots is important.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 22 Dec 2016 16:02

gshelton91 wrote:
theoryNine wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:As for the DART rail, pretty much the only folks who use that to visit Deep Ellum are a handful of families with kids during the day on weekends and the "bad guys" at night. Almost every crime report in the area ends with "The suspects were last seen headed towards the DART rail station." And no, I am not exaggerating.


What? I agree with the crime report part at the end, but the rest just isn't true. I use DART to ride into Deep Ellum multiple times a week, the people coming in on it are a very mixed bag. Regardless, people keep choosing to drive into Deep Ellum because parking is readily available. Adding parking will only exacerbate that, further encouraging more people to drive into the area to crowd the already crowded streets. Plus, Uber and Lyft autonomous ride-hailing should take a lot of pressure off of parking within the next 5 years.

More emphasis on better connecting pedestrian and bike infrastructure needs to be a priority to allow people to comfortably get in and out without their cars, especially since the core neighborhoods are going to have thousands of new apartments coming online in the next couple of years, but I don't think enabling more people to come drink and drive off should be our priority, not in 2016 with all the changes coming in the next few years.


I do agree connecting all the new apartments/condos in the near Downtown Area by public transit or pedestrian/bike is very important and should be a great source of business for Deep Ellum. But I still think a dedicated parking structure designed to replace the existing surface lots is important.


No,No,No,Nooooo!

The main problem is that Everyone wants to park in the upper east side on commerce / main where most of the shops are.. a garage there would cause more congestion there...

Aesthetically, a garage would look hideous there too.

Those surface parking lots need to be replaced by more shops.. not parking.

If a garage is needed it needs to be out further east closer towards baylor.

This will actually allow Deep Ellum to grow and people will discover other streets where curb side parking already exists if they wish not to pay at the garage for parking.

I never ever pay for parking when I'm in Deep Ellum. I just park where people don't. There is not shortage of parking. The problem is the that those parking lots are not located where they need to be. They need to be on the periphery not in middle of everything. People gravitate towards them cause they see them first and try parking there. Which causes traffic.


Horrible planning.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby joshua.dodd » 23 Dec 2016 08:20

DART needs to run its trains 24/7 then. Otherwise, people are gonna keep driving to Deep Ellum. Even if there are no parking lots left. People will park in Downtown and walk to Deep Ellum. DART trains do not run 24/7 like the trains in New York. And keep in mind that DART serves limited areas, while the vast majority of people who go to Deep Ellum on its busy days are from the surrounding suburbs. Deep Ellum will need a parking garage or two to accommodate these people, since they are, again, the majority of the area's clientele.

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Jbarn
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Jbarn » 23 Dec 2016 08:49

I think we need to come to the terms with the fact that people in Dallas are not walkers. Most folks here will drive around for 15 minutes looking for a parking spot at the front door, rather than park and take five minutes to walk 2 blocks. No matter how much denser we seem to be getting, we are missing a key element; people on the streets. We say we want the urbanity of a big city, but then we maintain our suburban ways. There are 100k+ people working downtown, thousands of people living there, and thousands of hotel rooms, yet I was down there yesterday morning and there were literally 10 people on all of Main Street. It is getting better, but we've got to change our
culture if we ever want to be the big, vibrant city we aspire to be. Many friends that visit me from other big cities have had the same comment about Dallas; it feels empty and lonely.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 23 Dec 2016 10:14

^I would say instead that people in Dallas are not going to be walkers within our suburban ways.... correct the environment to be pedestrian friendly and the sidewalks will be crowded with walkers. A cactus wont grow in a swamp and a fern wont grow in a desert.

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dd_dweller
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dd_dweller » 06 Jan 2017 12:34

http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... -pizzeria/

More and more new places keep opening in Deep Ellum!

Also, does anyone know if the property/lot across from the old Grainger is owned by the same people? There's some holes on the property and its been somewhat closed off.

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theoryNine
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby theoryNine » 07 Jan 2017 16:20

tamtagon wrote:^I would say instead that people in Dallas are not going to be walkers within our suburban ways.... correct the environment to be pedestrian friendly and the sidewalks will be crowded with walkers. A cactus wont grow in a swamp and a fern wont grow in a desert.


Agreed, the more pedestrian-friendly we design our neighborhoods, the more we Dallasites seem to embrace the idea of walking. I don't think anything makes us inherently anti-walking, I think we've just designed to make people think that way for a long time. I see the attitude changing as people experience walkable neighborhoods here.

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dd_dweller
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dd_dweller » 12 Jan 2017 12:56

http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/real- ... -live-oak/

Any news on this? Will it start construction this year? Excited about a grocery store opening next to deep ellum.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 14 Jan 2017 16:04

soco wrote:The City approved a Thoroughfare Plan amendment in 2015 to reduce Elm from five lanes to four. What you are seeing is the first in a series of modifications that reallocate the northside travel lane to other uses such as wider sidewalks, indented parallel parking, etc. The Drever and Tower Petroleum have similar plans to reconfigure that travel lane for other uses.


The city has turned Elm Street into a disaster through Deep Ellum. It looks like they want to do the same downtown. Try driving between Malcolm X and Good-Lattimer at 3PM on weekdays. They've now got two renta-cops out there to keep traffic flowing. When they change it to one lane each way it will be impassable.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 Jan 2017 01:43

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
soco wrote:The City approved a Thoroughfare Plan amendment in 2015 to reduce Elm from five lanes to four. What you are seeing is the first in a series of modifications that reallocate the northside travel lane to other uses such as wider sidewalks, indented parallel parking, etc. The Drever and Tower Petroleum have similar plans to reconfigure that travel lane for other uses.


The city has turned Elm Street into a disaster through Deep Ellum. It looks like they want to do the same downtown. Try driving between Malcolm X and Good-Lattimer at 3PM on weekdays. They've now got two renta-cops out there to keep traffic flowing. When they change it to one lane each way it will be impassable.


Completely disagree.

The purpose of the remaking of the street was to improve the sidewalks , add parking and slow down motorists. Just how Elm was meant to be when originally constructed. Total success...

I in particular feel Elm has done a complete 180 in terms of walkabilty. It feels great when walking through there.

And come on No resident passes through Elm or commerce with the thought of getting some where quick even during the week at 3 pm. There's stop signs all down Elm and Commerce! Lol

I'm always in that area. During the work week if I drive to work I take Pacific to Gaston and go around the shops or just take Canton.

Why would you go through there thinking it would be quicker any way?!

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 15 Jan 2017 11:10

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The purpose of the remaking of the street was to improve the sidewalks , add parking and slow down motorists. Just how Elm was meant to be when originally constructed. Total success...


The width of the actual "thru" sidewalks was not changed, they just added abutments along parts of it. Total on-street parking was decreased. Slowing down traffic goes against the basic purpose of a street -- to efficiently transport people and goods. And when Elm Street was "originally constructed" there were no sidewalks on it or motorists (or cars), so your assertion is farcical on it's face (even if it were in any way relevant, which it isn't).

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:And come on No resident passes through Elm or commerce with the thought of getting some where quick even during the week at 3 pm.


Why shouldn't we? Why should we have to suffer to meet the fantasies of some neo-urbanista types that don't live or work here? The so-called urban designers say they want to make neighborhoods more livable. Guess what -- turning us into a Disneyland for outsiders isn't improving life for us.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:There's stop signs all down Elm and Commerce! Lol


OK, I think I see the problem here. Either you are on some serious drugs or you've never actually been to Deep Ellum. There's not one stop sign on Elm or Commerce between I-35 and Exposition.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Why would you go through there thinking it would be quicker any way?!


Well, when you live and work here you don't have much choice. Unlike know-it-all outsiders who want to tell us what's good for us, but don't have to live with the consequences.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:During the work week if I drive to work I take Pacific to Gaston and go around the shops or just take Canton.


As I was saying....

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tanzoak
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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby tanzoak » 15 Jan 2017 12:51

Looking at the before and after, I don't really see what your complaint is, Hannibal. They kept the same number of travel lanes. It seems likely that the bad traffic you've experienced is more the result of significant population growth in the Deep Ellum/East Dallas area rather than the redesign decreasing capacity.

Also, yes, they reduced street parking a bit, but that seems to have been significantly underutilized. Additionally, from a resident's perspective, I'm not sure how street parking availability on Elm is particularly meaningful, regardless.

In exchange, you get a much more pleasant experience to be in. The bulb-outs offer space to put street lights, make you feel like you're more separated from the travelling cars, and provide a much, much improved and safer street-crossing experience.

Image

Image

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby joshua.dodd » 15 Jan 2017 19:26

Dallas is in a process of major transformation. That's why things are so messy. We are struggling to become a walkable city, and for the past decade and so, the city has made tremendous progress and stride. I look forward to Elm Street's complete reconfiguration. Especially in Downtown.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 Jan 2017 20:09

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The purpose of the remaking of the street was to improve the sidewalks , add parking and slow down motorists. Just how Elm was meant to be when originally constructed. Total success...


The width of the actual "thru" sidewalks was not changed, they just added abutments along parts of it. Total on-street parking was decreased. Slowing down traffic goes against the basic purpose of a street -- to efficiently transport people and goods. And when Elm Street was "originally constructed" there were no sidewalks on it or motorists (or cars), so your assertion is farcical on it's face (even if it were in any way relevant, which it isn't).

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:And come on No resident passes through Elm or commerce with the thought of getting some where quick even during the week at 3 pm.


Why shouldn't we? Why should we have to suffer to meet the fantasies of some neo-urbanista types that don't live or work here? The so-called urban designers say they want to make neighborhoods more livable. Guess what -- turning us into a Disneyland for outsiders isn't improving life for us.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:There's stop signs all down Elm and Commerce! Lol


OK, I think I see the problem here. Either you are on some serious drugs or you've never actually been to Deep Ellum. There's not one stop sign on Elm or Commerce between I-35 and Exposition.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Why would you go through there thinking it would be quicker any way?!


Well, when you live and work here you don't have much choice. Unlike know-it-all outsiders who want to tell us what's good for us, but don't have to live with the consequences.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:During the work week if I drive to work I take Pacific to Gaston and go around the shops or just take Canton.


As I was saying....



OK I miss spoke there aren't stop signs there are lights.

Your entire argument is that there aren't stops.. between Malcolm x and 365. uh.... There are lights there. Even worse than stop signs in terms of wait time..theres also a light on Hall...

And OK I am "drugs" if you say so .. oh and I live off Carrol btw. But Sure .. Im an "outsider" I guess. My point was that the area that you mention is a heavy retail area with pedestrian traffic.

And my point is still is valid, Given that there are lights between 365 and Malcolm x (and hall) ,exactly where mention, why would you expect that area to be a quick pass through?

That's the worse way to get through the area...It's OK bro you must be new to the area.

If your entire premise is that the sidewalks are same and given The capacity is still 2 lane Going east /west. Then what's your point Exactly..? Traffic is worse because it's the capacity same?

Have you noticed that there way more new businesess to the area? Hmmmm...Maybe that's what causing your grief.

The reality is coming out of downtown during the work week there has always been congestion. I guess I wouldn't know about all the horric traffic between Malcolm x and 365 where all the shops are ...Please Excuse me, ive been living in same area for almost a decade now and I don't view areas with lights and retail as quick pass through points...So I tend to avoid them..
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willyk
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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby willyk » 16 Jan 2017 02:23

First complaint I've heard about Elm. I see lots of new businesses in the neighborhood --and not just clubs, but a variety of retail--new residential, and new investments in rehabbing the old buildings. With all of that, I see many more people who come to the neighborhood to walk around and do stuff, even in the day time, and that includes Elm. Looks like the redone Elm is part of the success story in the making for Deep Ellum overall.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby DPatel304 » 17 Jan 2017 00:53

I'm a huge fan of the new Elm street, and really do want to see the same done to a lot more streets in the urban core.

Then again, I barely spent much time in Deep Ellum before all the recent changes. Back in high school, I did check out a few concerts there, but that was in the early 2000s, and it was only a handful of times. I think I may have been a bit too young to really appreciate Deep Ellum as it used to be.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby vman » 17 Jan 2017 07:15

willyk wrote:First complaint I've heard about Elm. I see lots of new businesses in the neighborhood --and not just clubs, but a variety of retail--new residential, and new investments in rehabbing the old buildings. With all of that, I see many more people who come to the neighborhood to walk around and do stuff, even in the day time, and that includes Elm. Looks like the redone Elm is part of the success story in the making for Deep Ellum overall.

Well I am someone who frequented a happening Deep Ellum when I first moved to Dallas, then saw the area DIE. I no longer live downtown, nor do I really go "out" at night anymore. But when I visit Deep Ellum for a few drinks or to grab a bite to eat on a weekend afternoon, I too, am simply amazed at what I see. The neighborhood is definitely back. A friend who lives in Oaklawn took my out a few weekends ago to a place called Dot's that was packed on a sunday afternoon. I'm surprised anyone would be complaining about Deep Ellum at all if they remember what it was like not very long ago.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 18 Jan 2017 00:34

willyk wrote:First complaint I've heard about Elm. I see lots of new businesses in the neighborhood --and not just clubs, but a variety of retail--new residential, and new investments in rehabbing the old buildings. With all of that, I see many more people who come to the neighborhood to walk around and do stuff, even in the day time, and that includes Elm. Looks like the redone Elm is part of the success story in the making for Deep Ellum overall.


About a month ago there was a neighborhood meeting with the new landscape and design architects for the Commerce Street project. The VERY first thing they brought up was they were not the same folks who did Elm Street, that they were aware of the design errors that the Elm Street designers made and don't worry...they wouldn't be repeating them.

BTW, the primary purpose of the meeting was to discuss a proposal to add a two-way bike lane to the project. The general consensus of the folks from the neighborhood (residents, business owners, and property owners) was that a bike lane would be fairly useless and irrelevant and they didn't care one way or the other if it was added -- as long as it didn't require the loss of ANY un-street parking spaces. If it meant the loss of even one parking space then it would be strongly opposed. There were only two or three people who wanted it.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 18 Jan 2017 01:00

tanzoak wrote:Also, yes, they reduced street parking a bit, but that seems to have been significantly underutilized. Additionally, from a resident's perspective, I'm not sure how street parking availability on Elm is particularly meaningful, regardless.


That shows just how little you understand the the neighborhood. Parking is probably third only to crime and panhandlers on the list of residents' concerns. Most of the properties -- both residential and commercial -- don't have guest parking. Any visitors have to park on-street on in the paid lots (and hope their windows are intact in the morning).

(You can imagine how fun and romantic it was to have to outside at 7AM on a cold Sunday morning to feed the meter when a "friend" spent the night. Fortunately the meters are free during the day now.)

As mentioned in my earlier post about the proposed bike lane, only a couple people really cared one way or the other about it -- as long as it didn't remove any on-street parking. But they were getting the torches and pitchforks ready if it would mean losing even one space.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 18 Jan 2017 01:14

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The purpose of the remaking of the street was to improve the sidewalks , add parking and slow down motorists. Just how Elm was meant to be when originally constructed. Total success...


Tivo_Kenevil wrote:If your entire premise is that the sidewalks are same and given The capacity is still 2 lane Going east /west. Then what's your point Exactly..? Traffic is worse because it's the capacity same?


At least I don't have to disagree with you. It seems you're quite capable doing that all by yourself. :P

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:And my point is still is valid, Given that there are lights between 365 and Malcolm x (and hall) ,exactly where mention, why would you expect that area to be a quick pass through?


Assuming you meant I-345, the lights aren't why it can take 5 minutes to get the two blocks from Malcolm X to Good-Lattimer most weekday afternoons. It's so bad the school now has two renta-cops to direct traffic on that stretch. Imagine what it will be like when the city makes it one land in each direction.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Please Excuse me, ive been living in same area for almost a decade now and I don't view areas with lights and retail as quick pass through points...So I tend to avoid them..


A little hard to avoid it when you live and work in the middle of it.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:That's the worse way to get through the area...It's OK bro you must be new to the area.


Yup. That must be it, I'm such a newbie. Heck, I've only owned property, lived and worked in the neighborhood since the turn of the century. And I've only been hanging around the 'hood since the 1970's.

(Were you even born then?)

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 18 Jan 2017 01:24

A couple other comments...

For those talking about how busy the neighborhood is doing right now: Yes, it's doing much better. But it's still not nearly as busy as it was in the early 2000's. Not even close.

Has anyone else noticed that of the various folks posting about how wonderful the Elm Street design is, not one of them (as far as I've noticed) lives in Deep Ellum, works in Deep Ellum or owns property in Deep Ellum? Just folks who think they know better than the people who deal with it every day.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby vman » 18 Jan 2017 07:11

Hannibal Lecter wrote:A couple other comments...

For those talking about how busy the neighborhood is doing right now: Yes, it's doing much better. But it's still not nearly as busy as it was in the early 2000's. Not even close.


I frequented Deep Ellum in the early 2000's and the area was booming...at night. During the daytime, it was pretty much a dead zone. I do admit I don't see the area much at night anymore, but it surely is doing a much better daytime business then it did in the early 2000's.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby tamtagon » 18 Jan 2017 08:53

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Assuming you meant I-345, the lights aren't why it can take 5 minutes to get the two blocks from Malcolm X to Good-Lattimer most weekday afternoons. It's so bad the school now has two renta-cops to direct traffic on that stretch. Imagine what it will be like when the city makes it one land in each direction.

Assuming you meant "one lane in each direction" you're indicating the charter school is the reason for the terrible traffic in the morning? is that from parents dropping kids off?

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Yup. That must be it, I'm such a newbie. Heck, I've only owned property, lived and worked in the neighborhood since the turn of the century. And I've only been hanging around the 'hood since the 1970's.

(Were you even born then?)

Daylighting Mill Creek rather than rebuilding the drainage system under East Dallas would have been so much better in so many ways, as regrettable as it would have been for those losing private property. However, making Old East Dallas that much better with a creek and adjoining parks probably would have changed the de facto pretentiousness of Deep Ellum into the same starched and buttoned-up swing of Park Cities-Uptown, losing the foppish grungy gritty tatted and pierced drama.

Such a long long long and living history from someone living in the area is a Gold Mine. All things considered, HL, do you think the concrete efforts underway which will make Deep Ellum a daytime destination as well as nighttime will end up better than the vampire hours of 'the turn of the century'?

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby tamtagon » 18 Jan 2017 08:55

...also I'll move this dialogue branch to the Deep Ellum thread as soon as possible... since topic started out as a downtown question.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby muncien » 18 Jan 2017 09:08

I have to admit... I'm one of those annoying outsiders who like to snarl up Deep Ellum traffic and prefer to walk on sidewalks that don't have cars flying by at 45mph. For the last ten years since I lived here, I never 'got' Deep Ellum. I tried to visit several times while living in Downtown and even after moving away and I just couldn't figure out what folks were talking about. All of that changed over the last six months... I go there regularly now (afternoon/evening... rarely very late), and I love the area.
I really suppose it has to do with the type of neighborhood you want it to be. A late night party place (didn't seem to work out too well), A edgy neighborhood that only the die-hards visit and enjoy, or a destination for many to enjoy and shop at? We seem to have seen all three, and I certainly know which I prefer. I say this as an outsider of course, but I admit it has spike our interest in looking at property in the area (for the first time ever).
Sure, the transition has it's growing pains and not all are going to be thrilled with the outcome (particularly those who came to love what it was), but overall it certainly is improving.
Some things that do stick out to me. Parking seems to be an unavoidable issue. I actually don't have a problem with it and have no issue walking a few blocks with the family. But if the business owners are feeling the sting of not having enough parking, it seems like something that needs to be addressed. Secondly, I have to agree about the bike lane on Commerce. It doesn't seem like the best use of space available. Bumping the bike lane down to the alley south of Commerce (listed as 'Clover' on maps) seems to be a good idea. You could actually help spread some of the activity southward and create a new spine of activity. Commerce itself needs to be narrowed by at least one lane if not two. There are too many folks flying down that street and those who have to cross from parking lots are left to play frogger. The sidewalks there are terrible as well.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby tanzoak » 18 Jan 2017 09:44

Hannibal Lecter wrote:That shows just how little you understand the the neighborhood. Parking is probably third only to crime and panhandlers on the list of residents' concerns. Most of the properties -- both residential and commercial -- don't have guest parking. Any visitors have to park on-street on in the paid lots (and hope their windows are intact in the morning).

(You can imagine how fun and romantic it was to have to outside at 7AM on a cold Sunday morning to feed the meter when a "friend" spent the night. Fortunately the meters are free during the day now.)

As mentioned in my earlier post about the proposed bike lane, only a couple people really cared one way or the other about it -- as long as it didn't remove any on-street parking. But they were getting the torches and pitchforks ready if it would mean losing even one space.


So it's all about guest parking? I'm sorry, but I have difficulty believing the problem is as bad as you claim. I'm sure that there are some high-demand times when it's relatively difficult to find a space right outside your building. But I'm also sure that there are plenty of spaces within a 5-7 minute walk during those time periods. They reduced parking on one street. All the streets around it, every side street and every major corridor, has ample parking, in addition to the lots you mentioned.

You're correct that I don't live in Deep Ellum. I actually don't even live in Dallas at the moment, having spent the last two years in Oakland/Berkeley, CA studying transportation engineering. The parking problem is much worse here, as it's denser, with less parking, and poor public transit. And yet still I've never had to park more than 7 min from my destination. I just don't believe that Deep Ellum has turned into this parking nightmare you describe from a reduction on one street.

I don't doubt you know other people very concerned about parking. As a veteran of many a public meeting of neighborhoods I do live in or know intimately, I can attest that parking is almost always the top concern of (sorry, rude but true) older people who've lived in the neighborhood for a long time, even when it isn't justified at all. They have come to expect tons of free or minimal-cost parking provided by the city, and expect to be able pull in directly in front of wherever they're going at any time. Preventing people from having to walk 5 minutes during peak hours is not what the city's interest should be. The focus instead should be on creating attractive, safe, and vibrant neighborhoods that encourage more people to visit and live in Dallas!

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby tanzoak » 18 Jan 2017 10:51

muncien wrote:Secondly, I have to agree about the bike lane on Commerce. It doesn't seem like the best use of space available. Bumping the bike lane down to the alley south of Commerce (listed as 'Clover' on maps) seems to be a good idea. You could actually help spread some of the activity southward and create a new spine of activity. Commerce itself needs to be narrowed by at least one lane if not two. There are too many folks flying down that street and those who have to cross from parking lots are left to play frogger. The sidewalks there are terrible as well.


The idea of a dedicated bike boulevard is awesome. Bike lanes on busy streets are less than ideal for cyclists and motorists alike. Unfortunately, it appears to be used for commercial deliveries, which might be tough to work around.

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby tamtagon » 18 Jan 2017 11:56

muncien wrote: Secondly, I have to agree about the bike lane on Commerce. It doesn't seem like the best use of space available. Bumping the bike lane down to the alley south of Commerce (listed as 'Clover' on maps) seems to be a good idea. You could actually help spread some of the activity southward and create a new spine of activity.


I'm not sure why this has not caught-on yet, there are so many allies in Dallas ideally situated for conversion to non-vehicular thoroughfares. There was a story in the paper today about ATT wanting to close a couple+ blocks of Akard so they can create a real life suburban corporate campus, a tourist destination of a promenade and bona fide front door to ATT.... it's the idea of dedicated non-vehicular connections that are fantastic and can actually find a way to combine some of the best of suburban and urban design....

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Re: Thanksgiving Tower Curb Relocation

Postby tamtagon » 19 Jan 2017 08:34

tamtagon wrote:...also I'll move this dialogue branch to the Deep Ellum thread as soon as possible... since topic started out as a downtown question.


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