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The Transition of Uptown

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dallaz
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The Transition of Uptown

Postby dallaz » 27 Sep 2018 19:19

It’s becoming more and more evident that Uptown is transitioning from a entertainment district, to an actual neighborhood.

What do you think the future of Uptown will be? Will it be a benchmark for other booming areas of Dallas to follow?

What are your thoughts?

News Video:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcdfw ... ml%3famp=y

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Sep 2018 22:41

Uptown will definitely be a bench mark. But I don't know where the next urban district that will follow uptown is.

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eburress
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby eburress » 27 Sep 2018 23:12

Between the Design District, Deep Ellum, Knox/Henderson, Bishop Arts, and the Cedars, and so on, there are a number of contenders.

Tnexster
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby Tnexster » 28 Sep 2018 11:55

Its difficult to figure out which one is closest to making that leap although I would tend to give that to DE just because of the momentum, night life and just the general level of activity.

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eburress
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby eburress » 28 Sep 2018 12:01

^ You could be right. My money is on Deep Ellum or the Design District.

I thought this was a very relevant news story, by the way. Thanks for posting dallaz. My wife and I are currently struggling with this, choosing between State Thomas or the Park Cities long-term.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 28 Sep 2018 14:31

I don't see Dunhill Partners doing anything in the Design district. I don't see zoning changes or infrastructure improvements happening.

Before Deep Ellum blew up, the city helped improve the pedestrian experience. I don't see that happening in the Design district.

At this point VP is ahead of Design District. Even the Cedars is ahead of them in terms forming a neighborhood.

Tnexster
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby Tnexster » 28 Sep 2018 16:59

The last few times I have made the turn from I-30 to 345 that overlooks DE I have been taken by the number of cranes hanging over DE, it looks like it's booming and I believe it is with more to come. With all of the activity taking place, new residential, hotels, office and Baylor it seems like it will come together the fastest.

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dallaz
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby dallaz » 29 Sep 2018 12:51

With kids being a growing demographic, I wonder how long it will take for a school to be placed in the Uptown/Downtown area?

I agree with the comments above. Deep Ellum is probably the most promising area in Dallas as of now. Since Deep Ellum is an entertainment district, do you think it’ll have to change as the residential population grows? (as in limiting the hours of the bars, clubs, etc.)

And if it does, would that hurt the character of Deep Ellum? I hosnetly don’t want Deep Ellum to be polished like Uptown. I like the gritty artisty vibe.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby lakewoodhobo » 30 Sep 2018 15:37

dallaz wrote:With kids being a growing demographic, I wonder how long it will take for a school to be placed in the Uptown/Downtown area?


I think DISD was wise to keep City Park Elementary after it closed in 2012 with the intention of reopening it once the demographics change enough.

And if it does, would that hurt the character of Deep Ellum? I hosnetly don’t want Deep Ellum to be polished like Uptown. I like the gritty artisty vibe.


The bars in Deep Ellum operate by Special Use Permit, so the city has a lot more control over them than in Uptown. I imagine that when enough people live in DE and start complaining about the noise and crime, you'll see a lot of them shut down. Hopefully the neighborhood will maintain its gritty aesthetic as it grows.

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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby DPatel304 » 30 Sep 2018 21:50

dallaz wrote:With kids being a growing demographic, I wonder how long it will take for a school to be placed in the Uptown/Downtown area?


FYI, the news video clip says there were 800 children living in Uptown last year, and that number doubled [to 1,600] this year. So children are still a VERY small portion of the population.

However, I do think that trend will definitely continue. I think it's only a matter of time before the party scene leaves Uptown completely. Neighborhood bars will still stick around, but once the party scene leaves, I think the entire area will feel very 'family-friendly'.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 30 Sep 2018 21:53

^ Sounds just like Vickery in 1986.

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Matt777
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby Matt777 » 01 Oct 2018 01:36

I'll believe it when I see it. Yes, some of the "party" places are going out, but I haven't seen a big influx of retail, grocery (other than Whole Foods), or neighborhood services to replace it. Nor has there been a big investment in increasing pedestrian infrastructure. Just more residential. High density Plano coming soon? Nice, but boring?

cowboyeagle05
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Oct 2018 09:38

Yeah, the lounges are on their way in. I do believe this is a "things get worse before they get better" kinda deal. Uptown has lost the trendy crowd as far as bars so now its left with some people trying to pick up the crumbs and open their nighttime lounge clubs where they can sneak by. The other reality is that residential is still on the uptick and Uptown is getting surrounded by more and more residential in other neighborhoods which make the demographics better for Uptown and other businesses. The retail can come but more changes are likely before that flip.

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muncien
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby muncien » 02 Oct 2018 09:53

I've always felt that DISD has to totally rethink how they manage schools in the core areas of the city. Heck, even suburban cities are building their schools to more resemble a Google Office than a traditional school in order to prepare the kids for what lies ahead. Let's face it... They won't be working in stand alone factories in the the future, but more likely open office concepts, or even at home using technology.
Ironically enough, I think First Baptist Academy's approach (at least from a design perspective) is a perfect model for the urban school campus. DISD needs to part ways with most of the current real estate they have in the city center.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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tamtagon
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby tamtagon » 02 Oct 2018 11:42

The residential component of Uptown will continue expand and continue to become more expensive. Lots and parcels will be consolidated, large high rise units will follow.

As the pretentious trend-following crowds scout around town for the next place to be, Uptown will settle into its role that establishes the trends, people who live there will know the difference and will be able to afford early adopter experimentation sorting things out. Dallas' infamous pretentious crowd will follow along closely, but few from this crowd will really be able to infiltrate and observe since the trend-setters will not be pretending. This is when/where the truly affluent are drawn to the creative set more than anything else; there's a sweet-spot somewhere in there, the scene is as exclusive as it is inclusive, discriminating for sure!

Uptown will be sated with neighborhood bars, swank & tony lounges, and may give a glancing look the appearance of a somewhat sedate nightlife scene, and while the most uproarious activities will be few, the action will be rarefied and smart and creative and, well, frankly hold more appeal to people from outside the South Central US than to North Texas residents.

A whole nutha level, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Most people wont get it.

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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby DPatel304 » 02 Oct 2018 12:11

tamtagon wrote:As the pretentious trend-following crowds scout around town for the next place to be, Uptown will settle into its role that establishes the trends, people who live there will know the difference and will be able to afford early adopter experimentation sorting things out. Dallas' infamous pretentious crowd will follow along closely, but few from this crowd will really be able to infiltrate and observe since the trend-setters will not be pretending. This is when/where the truly affluent are drawn to the creative set more than anything else; there's a sweet-spot somewhere in there, the scene is as exclusive as it is inclusive, discriminating for sure!


I would say that crowd has mostly left the Uptown party scene. I'd say Bottled Blonde and Backyard seem to be trendy these days, and Waterproof at the Statler also draws a decent crowd. Main St. in Deep Ellum has a few spots that would be popular with this crowd as well (Stirr, Harlowe, and now Vidorra).

I agree with what you're saying about Uptown though. I guess it would become the Dallas equivalent of the "upper east side". It used to be way more common for people to move to Uptown straight out of college, but I feel like that's just not as practical any more for a lot of people.

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dukemeredith
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby dukemeredith » 03 Oct 2018 08:20

tamtagon wrote:Uptown will be sated with neighborhood bars, swank & tony lounges, and may give a glancing look the appearance of a somewhat sedate nightlife scene, and while the most uproarious activities will be few, the action will be rarefied and smart and creative and, well, frankly hold more appeal to people from outside the South Central US than to North Texas residents.

A whole nutha level, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Most people wont get it.



Over the next 20+ years, I agree that this is Uptown’s next step. At first blush, your description reminds me of certain social scenes in Chicago.

Either evolve to this level or lose relevance.

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PonyUp13
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby PonyUp13 » 03 Oct 2018 09:32

As an Uptown resident of 5+ years I'm fine if the nightlife element evolves and we're left with low-key bars, restaurants, and neighborhood services.

The element of people who Ubered in from the suburbs to have a Vegas-esque experience on Friday and Saturday nights were really annoying to most locals.

Let Deep Ellum and whatever comes next cater to the summer interns, the TX/OU partiers, the Plano weekenders, the conventioneers, bottle service sparkler order-ers, etc, and Uptown can be a nice place to live as a well-off young professional with plenty to occupy you on the weekend.

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Matt777
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby Matt777 » 03 Oct 2018 09:44

LOL y'all are acting like Uptown is making some sort of quantum leap. It is changing, that's for sure, but just because the bars you didn't like are leaving doesn't mean high end retail, cool bars, and cool restaurants are coming in. I have seen the opposite taking place. Idle Rich was a true neighborhood bar, great food and drink program, and did not cause problems. Now there's "One Sette" and "Circo party restaurant." Are you kidding me? The city needs more Idle Rich and less "One Sette." I see the neighborhood going from loud young douche to 30-something douche. That's not really an improvement. There is lots of room for improvement.

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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby DPatel304 » 03 Oct 2018 09:59

Matt777 wrote:LOL y'all are acting like Uptown is making some sort of quantum leap. It is changing, that's for sure, but just because the bars you didn't like are leaving doesn't mean high end retail, cool bars, and cool restaurants are coming in. I have seen the opposite taking place. Idle Rich was a true neighborhood bar, great food and drink program, and did not cause problems. Now there's "One Sette" and "Circo party restaurant." Are you kidding me? The city needs more Idle Rich and less "One Sette." I see the neighborhood going from loud young douche to 30-something douche. That's not really an improvement. There is lots of room for improvement.


Idle Rich was definitely the type of place I wanted to see there for the long term.

I agree that One Sette and Circo are a step backwards in terms of the vision we all see for Uptown. I honestly don't see One Sette surviving past Feb 2019. Circo might last longer, but the atmosphere these places are trying to create just doesn't exist in Uptown, no matter how hard they try. It seems like the owners of these bars are still trying to make Uptown what is used to be before Deep Ellum made its comeback. I think they will try, and ultimately fail, and, hopefully, they will realize they need to move to a different area, and take these club/party bars elsewhere.

I'm not trying to come off as some NIMBY who doesn't want these bars in Uptown. While it's true I don't want them there, I'm mostly saying this because I just don't believe the demand for them is there. I guess the market will ultimately decide if they belong or not, but my guess is they won't last for long.

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tamtagon
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby tamtagon » 03 Oct 2018 12:43

I was 'asked to leave' Idle Rich a long long time ago. hahahaha

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Matt777
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby Matt777 » 03 Oct 2018 13:11

tamtagon wrote:I was 'asked to leave' Idle Rich a long long time ago. hahahaha


LOL is there more to this story?

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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 04 Oct 2018 09:39

DPatel304 wrote:
Matt777 wrote:LOL y'all are acting like Uptown is making some sort of quantum leap. It is changing, that's for sure, but just because the bars you didn't like are leaving doesn't mean high end retail, cool bars, and cool restaurants are coming in. I have seen the opposite taking place. Idle Rich was a true neighborhood bar, great food and drink program, and did not cause problems. Now there's "One Sette" and "Circo party restaurant." Are you kidding me? The city needs more Idle Rich and less "One Sette." I see the neighborhood going from loud young douche to 30-something douche. That's not really an improvement. There is lots of room for improvement.


Idle Rich was definitely the type of place I wanted to see there for the long term.

I agree that One Sette and Circo are a step backwards in terms of the vision we all see for Uptown. I honestly don't see One Sette surviving past Feb 2019. Circo might last longer, but the atmosphere these places are trying to create just doesn't exist in Uptown, no matter how hard they try. It seems like the owners of these bars are still trying to make Uptown what is used to be before Deep Ellum made its comeback. I think they will try, and ultimately fail, and, hopefully, they will realize they need to move to a different area, and take these club/party bars elsewhere.

I'm not trying to come off as some NIMBY who doesn't want these bars in Uptown. While it's true I don't want them there, I'm mostly saying this because I just don't believe the demand for them is there. I guess the market will ultimately decide if they belong or not, but my guess is they won't last for long.


That's what I said above it will get "worse" before it gets better. A few bronies will attempt to move in and open up their dream bars thinking they will be the next great Uptown venue when really they will be the last thing of that era, a smudge of significance on the history of Uptown. Uptown will evolve cause the residential isn't going downhill and Whole Foods will help it stay as leased as ever. More residential will replace other properties. Eventually, as some of these club/bar spots sit empty owners will turn them back into retail spaces or sell to the next investor looking to build something that works. The settling in will happen cause the demographics look bright for Uptown.

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dallaz
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby dallaz » 04 Oct 2018 12:22

muncien wrote:I've always felt that DISD has to totally rethink how they manage schools in the core areas of the city. Heck, even suburban cities are building their schools to more resemble a Google Office than a traditional school in order to prepare the kids for what lies ahead. Let's face it... They won't be working in stand alone factories in the the future, but more likely open office concepts, or even at home using technology.
Ironically enough, I think First Baptist Academy's approach (at least from a design perspective) is a perfect model for the urban school campus. DISD needs to part ways with most of the current real estate they have in the city center.

If DISD ever decides to build a new campus downtown, it need to be an urban concept. But knowing Dallas...it could just be a traditional campus plopped in the middle of Downtown.

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mcrdal15
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby mcrdal15 » 12 Oct 2018 10:56

Why can't Downtown become the new Uptown? Seems obvious to me and the infrastructure is in place for it.

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eburress
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby eburress » 12 Oct 2018 13:16

mcrdal15 wrote:Why can't Downtown become the new Uptown? Seems obvious to me and the infrastructure is in place for it.


That would be the absolute best case scenario, in my opinion.

DPatel304
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby DPatel304 » 12 Oct 2018 13:25

I definitely see that happening. I think Uptown will lose its status as being the affluent urban district in Dallas, and I could possible see the Arts District taking over that spot.

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mcrdal15
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby mcrdal15 » 12 Oct 2018 17:48

DPatel304 wrote:I definitely see that happening. I think Uptown will lose its status as being the affluent urban district in Dallas, and I could possible see the Arts District taking over that spot.


Old East Dallas along Good Latimer is another candidate. I hate to admit this, but I did speak with a bartender at Bottle Blonde who said a lot of the land around there was being bought up for similar establishments. Not sure if this is true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Kung Fu/Clutch/Concrete Cowboy/Trophy Room variety ends up in that area. I doubt Deep Ellum proper will end up with those types of places, but I can definitely see that portion of Good Latimer becoming the next Uptown or West 6th St. They can call it GoodLat :lol: :lol:

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I45Tex
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Re: The Transition of Uptown

Postby I45Tex » 12 Oct 2018 19:10

I'm Congressman Goodlatte, and I approved this message.


https://goodlatte.house.gov


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