Plano: misc. developments

[jrd1964]

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... plano.html

Plano ISD will build a new Fine Arts center on Alma between W. Park Blvd. and 15th Street. A main auditorium will seat 1500 and include a balcony and orchestra pit. The complex will also house an art gallery. Not only will school-related events take place there, but non-school functions as well. Construction will start next summer, but a completion/opening date was not listed.

The article didn't mention it, but the Fine Arts center will likely be the de-facto substitute for the cancelled Collin County arts hall that was planned between Plano and neighboring suburbs Allen, Frisco, and McKinney.

[The_Overdog]

In my opinion that's a terrible place for performing arts center mostly because nobody of school age actually lives anywhere close to it. I guess that's what you get when you have 3 high schools of equal-ish power. I mean it's next door neighbor is a huge cube storage location, a lone office building, and the rest of the land is zoned for elderly/senior housing accommodations.

No idea what they were thinking.

but the Fine Arts center will likely be the de-facto substitute for the cancelled Collin County arts hall that was planned between Plano and neighboring suburbs Allen, Frisco, and McKinney.

Yes and no. I think performing arts centers are just kind of an in-thing to build right now. Richardson and Allen currently have ones and UT-Dallas Richardson is also planning one.

[The_Overdog]

The new US75 Plano Parkway flyover is now complete -they took away a service road lane and added it to the highway, and built a flyover lane for Plano Parkway. The result with BJs Pizza and Chipotle and whatever feel they like they are right up against the highway and you can look down upon the roofs of the buildings as you go by. There are only a few places in DFW where you get that sensation - most in downtown Dallas but also the Galleria.

I'd think that the existing structures will not last much longer with this configuration. They will eventually be bulldozed and setback farther or add additional stories.

[muncien]

The new US75 Plano Parkway flyover is now complete -they took away a service road lane and added it to the highway, and built a flyover lane for Plano Parkway. The result with BJs Pizza and Chipotle and whatever feel they like they are right up against the highway and you can look down upon the roofs of the buildings as you go by. There are only a few places in DFW where you get that sensation - most in downtown Dallas but also the Galleria.

I'd think that the existing structures will not last much longer with this configuration. They will eventually be bulldozed and setback farther or add additional stories.

Not Plano, but the new I35E/SRT interchange is very similar. You can't even see it on internet maps yet as it's brand new, but ironically it too involves an on-ramp running above a BJ's and a Chipotle... lol

[The_Overdog]

Not Plano, but the new I35E/SRT interchange is very similar

Poor BJs and Chipotle. With the service roads shrinking (a good thing in my opinion) parts of DFW will really start to look different in the next few years.

[The_Overdog]

The lobby portion of the Southfork Hotel on the edge of central expressway is now a giant pile of rubble. The hotel rooms off the wings were separated from the lobby and turned into another hotel. Not sure what is planned for the soon to be empty lot.

[jrd1964]

The lobby portion of the Southfork Hotel on the edge of central expressway is now a giant pile of rubble. The hotel rooms off the wings were separated from the lobby and turned into another hotel. Not sure what is planned for the soon to be empty lot.

Just noticed that a few nights ago. The main part became a Quality Inn & Suites a little while back, while the farthest wing (closest to the 16th Street turn-off from the 75-Central service road) was turned into a Studio 6. I've not heard about what's up with the torn-down part of the hotel. Good to see real brands there instead of something made up or unusally-named just to draw tourists off the highway.

[The_Overdog]

Couple of downtown Plano updates:
There are port-a-potties around the closed Wendys on 15th street. That usually portends demolition, but I've not seen any plans on what could be replacing it.

50 unit multifamily request on 14th & Ave K, right across from downtown.

There is a also a request with the Historical Preservation group to demo or remove a house that is deemed 'historically significant' for Plano but really just a dumpy generic old house anywhere else. Apparently nobody wants it, so they are asking for the demo permit, and it will be replaced with townhomes.

[exelone31]

Couple of downtown Plano updates:
There are port-a-potties around the closed Wendys on 15th street. That usually portends demolition, but I've not seen any plans on what could be replacing it.

50 unit multifamily request on 14th & Ave K, right across from downtown.

There is a also a request with the Historical Preservation group to demo or remove a house that is deemed 'historically significant' for Plano but really just a dumpy generic old house anywhere else. Apparently nobody wants it, so they are asking for the demo permit, and it will be replaced with townhomes.

Thanks for the updates! I'm curious to see what ultimately happens with that "gateway" to downtown Plano where Wendy's, Braum's, etc is at. They made really nice updates to the sidewalks and the cool vertical "Plano" sign, so hopefully there's some revitalization afoot.

Which house is on the docket to be moved? Just curious.

[BiscuitHead]

The Wendy’s is being torn down today.

[The_Overdog]

Which house is on the docket to be moved? Just curious.

910 17th Street. Near 17th & I.

[R1070]

I was thinking the other day that midrise infill all around the core of the downtown would be super cool!

[Tnexster]

‘Don’t Uptown Our Plano’ is one of The Angry Crowd’s scare tactics distorting the city's real story

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... real-story

[The_Overdog]

Given Plano's lousy turnout in local elections, these (really any) fringe groups have an opportunity to make over the city council to pursue their own interests when local elections are not coupled with a presidential election. It would be really interesting to see an anti-growth council in place, and Plano being seriously surpassed by its peers, like Irving, Allen, Frisco, McKinney, The Colony, Rockwall, whomever.

Frisco and Allen are both doing all the same stuff but they don't have anti-growth councils so the pushback is much less.

[exelone31]

‘Don’t Uptown Our Plano’ is one of The Angry Crowd’s scare tactics distorting the city's real story

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... real-story

Yeah, it seems like this is NIMBY-ism at its finest. I have not dug into the content of what Plano Future puts out there, but I have a feeling there aren't a lot of solutions offered, only complaints.

It's been great to see the development that's been happening in Plano, and I hope it tilts even more toward urban style revitalization with places like Collin Creek Mall and Legacy East(?).

[cowboyeagle05]

Yeah, I read the Plano Future website and its a lot of scattered understanding of development and whats happening. A lot of fear of becoming New York city which is always the extreme that people in suburban communities refer too when discussing urbanization.

[Tnexster]

You can look at NYC and use it as a model of what you don't want to become, which is fine since it's not for everybody but urbanizing doesn't make you NYC.

[exelone31]

Yeah, I read the Plano Future website and its a lot of scattered understanding of development and whats happening. A lot of fear of becoming New York city which is always the extreme that people in suburban communities refer too when discussing urbanization.

Hahaha yes, because there are loads of New York Cities popping up left and right.

[cowboyeagle05]

We know that but if you have ever been to a city council or planning meeting with some of these anti-urban people you will understand that they don't read books on urbanization or the history of cities. They base their understandings on these things on stuff they have seen and or experienced and for many, that's a combination of TV and horror stories about the homeless and cities running rampant in the 70/80's with drugs and poor uneducated classes of people suffering while the suburbs blossomed with white flight jobs and ranch homes for everyone. Kinda a cartoon of urbanization but we can not expect every citizen to be well educated on urban planning, economics, social imbalances and how past public policy has protected them from the reality of suburban communities structural instability.

[Tnexster]

Plano sets a vote that could repeal the master development plan that split the city

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... split-city

[exelone31]

Plano sets a vote that could repeal the master development plan that split the city

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... split-city

Good. ness. What a shame.

[The_Overdog]

This decision does make it seem like the city government is at best losing to reactionaries, but then again the 'master plan' that they are fighting over is so toothless it doesn't even seem worth fighting for.

Plano does spot zoning, mostly relies on the 'market' to determine land value, and even when it does tilt in favor of something (the current location of the under-construction high school performing arts center would be an example) it's tilted towards the status quo, not anything remotely 'tomorrow-ish'. I think that is the problem - the people excited about this plan have mostly moved on and everyone else is lukewarm at best, because there's honestly nothing to it to be excited about.

Nothing has changed since this masterplan came about so why spend any money fighting for it?

[Tnexster]

Two council members set vote on full repeal of controversial Plano Tomorrow development plan

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/plano/2 ... pment-plan

[Tnexster]

A final walk through Plano’s Collin Creek Mall with a mom, her daughter and the ghosts of our younger selves

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ger-selves

The mall is about to lock its doors for good as Mehrdad Moayedi’s Centurion America — responsible for the redo of the Statler Hotel in Downtown Dallas, where The Dallas Morning News has its offices —begins a total rebuild of the property. More than half the mall, built in 1981 and stuck in a financial skid for two decades, will be torn down for the $1-billion mixed-use development with new offices, residential, hotel and retail.

If you read the comments posted by the more than 7,000 subscribers to a public Facebook page paying homage to Collin Creek, you’d wonder why it failed. While lots of people mourn the passing of a mall they associate with more innocent times and a smaller, less-bustling Plano, the harsh truth is that Collin Creek was abandoned for the next new things — Stonebriar Centre and The Shops at Willow Bend.

[itsjrd1964]

First Baptist Church in Plano, a fixture on the east side of downtown for many decades, has decided to sell its property and move to a new site near Coit/Mapleshade. Meanwhile, the 10-acre site the church has occupied will be redeveloped by InTown Homes. There will be townhomes, apartments, plus restaurant, retail, and office spaces there. It will take around 2 years for First Baptist to build and open its new location, so the InTown redevelopment won't get going before then.
The city council has since approved the needed rezoning.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... own-homes/
https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... -downtown/

[Tnexster]

Plano has to embrace growth to embrace the future

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/edit ... rce=pushly

[Thymant]

I don't see what's wrong with a suburb being a suburb.

[The_Overdog]

The restaurant in front of the former Fairview Farmers Market (big barn looking building) just north of Parker and 75 has been torn down. It has been too many places for me to name - I think it is most notable for being a bar where some dude was overserved and then ran over a person in the parking lot.

This is the 3rd teardown in this stretch, with Longhorn Steakhouse, Saltgrass Steakhouse, and now this one tearing down former restaurants for new chains. The original plans for the hotel that replaced the barn showed more hotel property closer to the freeway. So maybe this is phase two, or maybe they will build a 3rd chain steakhouse.

[The_Overdog]

The Heritage Creekside office building (I think) on Plano Parkway that is currently under construction and has been digging underground parking, and creating a giant (and kind of cool) pile of stone has finally reached ground level again in it's march upwards.

Just across the tollway in Richardson, TX Instruments has 2 cranes working building a 5 story above ground parking garage for their offices and factory on Alma and Renner. The garage is going to be huge and since it's close to the street, visually one of the largest buildings in the area.

[The_Overdog]

While looking around for a property on Loopnet, I found that 5 acres on the corner of Mapleshade and Coit Rd is for sale, with the note that Billingsly is selling off this corner in anticipation of starting Beacon Square, which is a mixed use community between Coit Road to the east, a railline to the north, and WalMart to the south. Per the notes for sale: "...property is located at the future entrance to Beacon Square, an urban mixed-use development of Billingsley Company which is planned to commence development in Fall 2019". I'm guessing Fall 2019 didn't mean actually moving dirt around since it has come and gone, but rather starting the actual design.

[exelone31]

While looking around for a property on Loopnet, I found that 5 acres on the corner of Mapleshade and Coit Rd is for sale, with the note that Billingsly is selling off this corner in anticipation of starting Beacon Square, which is a mixed use community between Coit Road to the east, a railline to the north, and WalMart to the south. Per the notes for sale: "...property is located at the future entrance to Beacon Square, an urban mixed-use development of Billingsley Company which is planned to commence development in Fall 2019". I'm guessing Fall 2019 didn't mean actually moving dirt around since it has come and gone, but rather starting the actual design.

Yeah I think I remember seeing some stories about this a year or two ago. It is entirely possible that the "Don't Uptown my Plano" crowd has contributed to some of that delay in the timeline as well.

[Tnexster]

Children’s Medical Center Plano to build 7-floor tower that will triple capacity
The 300,000 square foot expansion is the largest undertaken by the hospital system north of I-635.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/hea ... -capacity/

[The_Overdog]

Billingsly is finally ready to kick off Beacon Square (mixed use across from WalMart on Coit Road). Not surprisingly, they want the amount of retail decreased.

More interesting is that they suggest that restaurants in these so-so mixed-use complexes around DFW and located away from major highway corridors will become 'amenities', ie: require discounted rent to survive.

Not a surprise in this corridor, which has many restaurants adjacent and per Billingsly, already has a large amount of empty retail space.

[exelone31]

^ Oh yeah? That's interesting. It seems like a lot of development has started back there behind the Walmart.

The latest stuff I've got is this https://billingsleyco.com/developments/bush-business-park/. Have you seen anything new?

[The_Overdog]

That's the plan. I wish the 'flythrough' video was playable as a first-person-shooter or driving game. I'd love to simulate the battle of Beacon Square.

[exelone31]

https://dmagazine.com/frontburner/2020/08/what-a-nimby-victory-in-plano-means-for-the-future-of-urban-planning-in-texas/?ref=mpw

RIP Plano Tomorrow plan. All the "Don't Uptown My Plano" crowd can now have their dreams of living in a hollowed-out husk of a suburb while their sacred cow of sprawl marches over their faces into destinations further and further northward.

Oh well, hopefully other suburbs will be able to pick up where this plan left off and reap the benefits.

[The_Overdog]

I'm not at all a NIMBY, but this plan was total nonsense, and I'm surprised citizens or the city fought it that long. Plano was not in any way 'planned', this 'plan' did not change that, and though the P&Z fought hard for the 'plan', they don't even follow it. Plano is arbitrarily spot zoned (ie: the true zoning is determined when someone asks to do something with the land), always has been, and probably always will be.

I mean, look at the current projects enacted under the 'plan': the new business district is in the far northwest corner of town, the JC Penny campus plan extending it was denied, a mixed use community will be built next to a Wal-Mart, a warehouse district is next to Richardson's new StateFarm complex and housing and other business denied, units near DART rail on empty land were denied, and the actual old downtown is in the east corner cut off by a freeway. Future transportation: LOL. the useless bus terminal near the center of town is still underdeveloped, the Legacy Transportation Plan was always optional and has never really started, and the city is not doing much of anything to encourage alternate transportation, they are mostly widening roads and adding 'spork' turn lanes where they are not needed.

Yes, all the complaints about the plan were false (Plano schools are facing declining enrollment for example) but the plan was always fake too.

[quixomniac]

I'm not at all a NIMBY, but this plan was total nonsense, and I'm surprised citizens or the city fought it that long. Plano was not in any way 'planned', this 'plan' did not change that, and though the P&Z fought hard for the 'plan', they don't even follow it. Plano is arbitrarily spot zoned (ie: the true zoning is determined when someone asks to do something with the land), always has been, and probably always will be.

I mean, look at the current projects enacted under the 'plan': the new business district is in the far northwest corner of town, the JC Penny campus plan extending it was denied, a mixed use community will be built next to a Wal-Mart, a warehouse district is next to Richardson's new StateFarm complex and housing and other business denied, units near DART rail on empty land were denied, and the actual old downtown is in the east corner cut off by a freeway. Future transportation: LOL. the useless bus terminal near the center of town is still underdeveloped, the Legacy Transportation Plan was always optional and has never really started, and the city is not doing much of anything to encourage alternate transportation, they are mostly widening roads and adding 'spork' turn lanes where they are not needed.

Yes, all the complaints about the plan were false (Plano schools are facing declining enrollment for example) but the plan was always fake too.

Can anyone post the pdf to the plan? I went to followed the links thru the article which led to a useless website. Whatever the details of the plan are, they need a plan. If they want Plano to keep growing. And by growing I mean surviving. Suburbs can and will die if they do not become something else.

[The_Overdog]

The website is the plan. You probably were looking at the correct thing.

http://www.planotomorrow.org/150/Land-U ... ity-Design

Here are some maps:
http://www.planotomorrow.org/229/Maps-of-Plano-Tomorrow

[quixomniac]

The website is the plan. You probably were looking at the correct thing.

http://www.planotomorrow.org/150/Land-U ... ity-Design

Here are some maps:
http://www.planotomorrow.org/229/Maps-of-Plano-Tomorrow

Thanks! I guess I expected something different. Most plans are one PDF.
As it is, its a series of pdfs, making it harder to grasp what exactly it is they were voting on.
It's already dead anyways. But here is the only summary page I could find.
http://www.planotomorrow.org/232/Key-Components-Summary

Most of the pdfs look like things they were already doing, nothing new we havent discussed on here.
I expected updates on Colin Creek Mall, or something new with Legacy Hall/Granite Park.
But I guess given that Dart rail doesnt go thru there, its hard to do much else.
A bus system in gridlock isnt going to solve anything.

[ajderry2017]

The website is the plan. You probably were looking at the correct thing.

http://www.planotomorrow.org/150/Land-U ... ity-Design

Here are some maps:
http://www.planotomorrow.org/229/Maps-of-Plano-Tomorrow

Thanks! I guess I expected something different. Most plans are one PDF.
As it is, its a series of pdfs, making it harder to grasp what exactly it is they were voting on.
It's already dead anyways. But here is the only summary page I could find.
http://www.planotomorrow.org/232/Key-Components-Summary

Most of the pdfs look like things they were already doing, nothing new we havent discussed on here.
I expected updates on Colin Creek Mall, or something new with Legacy Hall/Granite Park.
But I guess given that Dart rail doesnt go thru there, its hard to do much else.
A bus system in gridlock isnt going to solve anything.

Update on Plano Collin Creek Mall Incase you haven’t seen it.

http://planomagazine.com/collin-creek-r ... e-project/

[exelone31]

^ huh, I didn't realize they were planning on keeping so much of the original mall. I will trust the developers on this one, but I'm having a tough time envisioning this as something other than a slightly further south version of Watters Creek.

[The_Overdog]

but I'm having a tough time envisioning this as something other than a slightly further south version of Watters Creek.

I think Watters Creek might be the among the 'nicest' urban villages/TOD without any transit connections in the US. If that's what they achieve, then it's basically a win.

[quixomniac]

Update on Plano Collin Creek Mall Incase you haven’t seen it.

http://planomagazine.com/collin-creek-r ... e-project/

Thanks! Hopefully it is succesful.
Even if it isnt next to a rail, hopefully they have a bus shuttle to the nearby GWB train station.
Or bike lines or something.

[itsjrd1964]

Update on Plano Collin Creek Mall Incase you haven’t seen it.

http://planomagazine.com/collin-creek-r ... e-project/

Thanks! Hopefully it is succesful.
Even if it isnt next to a rail, hopefully they have a bus shuttle to the nearby GWB train station.
Or bike lines or something.

So far, DART has retained bus access to the remaining (JCPenney) part of Collin Creek. The #870 goes out/back from the Downtown Plano station, to Collin Creek westbound, and neighborhoods along 14th, 18th, and Shiloh eastbound. So there is still connection there, but it will interesting to see how DART will treat Collin Creek when everything is redone.

[quixomniac]

So far, DART has retained bus access to the remaining (JCPenney) part of Collin Creek. The #870 goes out/back from the Downtown Plano station, to Collin Creek westbound, and neighborhoods along 14th, 18th, and Shiloh eastbound. So there is still connection there, but it will interesting to see how DART will treat Collin Creek when everything is redone.

That's somewhat useful, but it needs to be as direct as possible. It's less than 2 minutes away driving. You should have a high frequency direct connection in order to benefit. UT Dallas has a shuttle and its much further away, 15-20 minute intervals. You shouldnt have to plan to use the bus, you should be able to just get on one. Hopefully the new DART bus routes address things like this.

[cowboyeagle05]

Also quick update JcPenny is out of this project. JcPenny is in the process of selling the store to Centurion so they can use it as part of the overall project rather than a self contained store. JcPenny bankruptcy court is in the process of approving the sale.

[TNWE]

So far, DART has retained bus access to the remaining (JCPenney) part of Collin Creek. The #870 goes out/back from the Downtown Plano station, to Collin Creek westbound, and neighborhoods along 14th, 18th, and Shiloh eastbound. So there is still connection there, but it will interesting to see how DART will treat Collin Creek when everything is redone.

That's somewhat useful, but it needs to be as direct as possible. It's less than 2 minutes away driving. You should have a high frequency direct connection in order to benefit. UT Dallas has a shuttle and its much further away, 15-20 minute intervals. You shouldnt have to plan to use the bus, you should be able to just get on one. Hopefully the new DART bus routes address things like this.

I'm not holding my breath - the bus network redesign concepts for high ridership/frequency would require cutting 2-3 routes for each route that gets enhanced frequency. There's no way Plano/Collin Creek gets allocated that sort of frequency when DART leadership is single-mindedly focused on ridership (particularly in Downtown/Uptown), even when presented with data showing most of their riders prefer coverage (https://dart.org/about/board/boardagend ... 5aug20.pdf).

[The_Overdog]

IDK, that route might make the cut. The apartment to the south was on the UTD bus routes taken over by DART a few years ago and is regularly stated as one of the busiest on the UTD list. If that route was extended to 15th Street to the North it might survive. Maybe they could add a bus stop on the corner of 15th and Alma. There is actually a dedicated bus curb-cut stop-thing adjacent to Collin Creek Mall on Alma, but hostile pedestrian infrastructure between the bus stop and the mall (a pipe rail fence, the sidewalk ends slightly north and south, and no pavement down the embankment towards the mall).

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.0141777 ... 384!8i8192