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Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

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tanzoak
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby tanzoak » 06 Apr 2018 18:20

dfwcre8tive wrote:Electric scooters and electric assist bicycles are the invaders in SF, currently.

https://sf.curbed.com/2018/4/5/17202690 ... nfo-how-to


Lol this encapsulates SF’s freak out over everything and nothing. Are there electric scooters? Umm, they exist, I suppose. A couple. That you can occasionally spot. But lol at “scores of companies studding SF sidewalks with an abundance of electric scooters.”

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art_suckz
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby art_suckz » 10 Apr 2018 12:10

I think this is all just Pokemon Go... but with bikes.
To the man who only has a hammer, everything he encounters begins to look like a nail.

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willyk
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby willyk » 19 Apr 2018 22:41

Arriving late to this forum so I apologize if this has been answered, but every morning I see rows of bikes downtown that had been neatly set up, that are knocked down like dominos. Vandals? Competitors? Angry joggers? Does anyone know why this is happening?

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utgf
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby utgf » 20 Apr 2018 02:00

tanzoak wrote:Lol this encapsulates SF’s freak out over everything and nothing. Are there electric scooters? Umm, they exist, I suppose. A couple. That you can occasionally spot. But lol at “scores of companies studding SF sidewalks with an abundance of electric scooters.”


At least in the financial district, they were everywhere the first few days until the city confiscated them. And they were being left in places where people could easily trip over them.

Glad the city is passing rules to get them regulated. Would not want to happen here with these what I saw in Dallas with the bicycles during my last visit.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby muncien » 20 Apr 2018 09:44

willyk wrote:Arriving late to this forum so I apologize if this has been answered, but every morning I see rows of bikes downtown that had been neatly set up, that are knocked down like dominos. Vandals? Competitors? Angry joggers? Does anyone know why this is happening?


I have asked myself the same thing numerous times... It's far too often to see for it to be disgruntled people causing mischief. My thought is that the wind is to blame. But, maybe I think too highly of society as a whole (that would be a first).
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 20 Apr 2018 09:47

willyk wrote:Arriving late to this forum so I apologize if this has been answered, but every morning I see rows of bikes downtown that had been neatly set up, that are knocked down like dominos. Vandals? Competitors? Angry joggers? Does anyone know why this is happening?


I live on Cedar Springs and watch pedestrians drunk and non-drunk kick them over all the time. Mostly for the fun of watching them fall. Its become that be part of the problem behavior that pisses me off. It's bad enough when someone just parks it awkwardly across a sidewalk but when they are all lined up neatly and kicked over at night and during the daylight hours you are the problem not the bike rental company.

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tanzoak
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby tanzoak » 20 Apr 2018 09:57

utgf wrote:At least in the financial district, they were everywhere the first few days until the city confiscated them. And they were being left in places where people could easily trip over them.

Glad the city is passing rules to get them regulated. Would not want to happen here with these what I saw in Dallas with the bicycles during my last visit.


According to my wife, who works in the financial district, apparently there was in fact about a week where there were lots of them, and I just missed it. I don't share your confidence in SF's regulatory decision-making, though.

Dallas bikeshare, on the other hand, is nothing short of miraculous. When I was in Dallas in mid-January, it totally blew me away (and apparently has increased since then), and the initial data is just as impressive. The first six-month ridership compared favorably with ridership for Ford GoBike (Bay Area Bike Share) four years into the program (plus multi-year prior planning process!). And that's with the first two months of Dallas' barely having any bikes and the months after it had real lift-off being in the winter. All this despite Dallas having essentially zero bike infrastructure, no biking culture, hostile roads that are too wide and fast to share, and land use that's very spread out.

The City's hands-off regulatory approach is the first time I've been genuinely impressed with Dallas leadership. It's what allowed this exceptional performance. They wisely recognized that the worst that could happen was a little clutter, and they could deal with regulations to address that after the program had gotten off the ground, rather than feel the need to get everything exactly perfect from the start (which is impossible, particularly with something new like this) and risk suffocating it at birth. The City spent next to no money, time, or effort, and in exchange got an extensive bikeshare system with promising early ridership in a place totally hostile to non-auto transport. That's a job well done!

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby flyswatter » 06 May 2018 08:52

Uptown is starting to put in bike racks, but no one wants to put their bikes in them...Across the street were more neatly lined up Lime Bikes as well so the companies aren't putting them in there either. Also, am I crazy or are those slots in the rack too close together to put bikes in next to each other?

Image

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tanzoak
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby tanzoak » 06 May 2018 16:49

What the hell. To be honest, I wouldn't have enough recognized that as a bike rack. If no one at the City has ever locked a bike before, it's not that tough to just ask someone if this makes any sense.

I have some hot-off-the-presses FREE CONSULTING ADVICE: just do u-racks.

They don't take up much room, are easy to lock to, provide two points of contact, and are secure. They look like this:
Image


For narrower sidewalks, you can rotate like this so that they only take up like 6 inches of width:
Image

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soco
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby soco » 08 May 2018 10:03

These racks were not installed by the City. This type of rack is not preferred since it does not provide stability for the bike and can cause damage to the front wheel. The City usually installs 'U' racks.

I've locked a bike once or twice.

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muncien
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby muncien » 08 May 2018 10:13

soco wrote:These racks were not installed by the City. This type of rack is not preferred since it does not provide stability for the bike and can cause damage to the front wheel. The City usually installs 'U' racks.

I've locked a bike once or twice.


Not to mention... You probably could have gotten a dozen of those simple 'hoop' racks for the price of this one. But, hey... at least they're trying.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 May 2018 10:49

I am still waiting on the streetcar stop shelter they promised to build years ago now. They had a design competition with the goal of building one of the designs and then nothing.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby DPatel304 » 09 Jun 2018 23:20

Bike Share Regulations Are Coming — Finally
According to an initial proposal from Dallas city staff Wednesday, bike operators will pay the city $776 for an initial permit and $18 per bike per year to operate in Dallas. Permit renewals will run half the initial fee — $388. That cash will pay the salaries of four full-time city employees — City Council member Lee Kleinman praised the plan for being revenue neutral — who will then make sure that the bike companies are abiding by the other rules in the contract.

Those rules, which should be tweaked a little in the weeks before the vote, require that no bike be left in the same spot for more than two days if its in a residential neighborhood or seven days anywhere else. Bikes can't be left on their sides for more than two hours, according to the proposed ordinance, nor can they be parked on a sidewalk less than 8 feet wide or on a wheelchair ramp. The city also plans to identify and paint potential parking spaces for the bikes.

According to representatives from the bike companies at City Hall on Wednesday, the number of bike-share bikes in the city is down considerably from its peak of about 18,000 this winter. The three biggest companies in the city — ofo, Limebike and VBikes — reported having 5,000, 3,000 and 1,000 bikes in Dallas, respectively. Despite the decrease, Dallas Mayor Pro Tem Dwaine Caraway complained, as he has numerous times over the last six months, that the city wasn't getting a docked bike-share program, despite the fact that Dallas has turned down that idea numerous times because of cost.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dall ... 7-10769036

This sounds like an interesting way to deal with all the bike share programs. I haven't exactly seen the specifics on how other cities are dealing with this, so I can't really comment on how Dallas compares. My only concern is that $18 per bike seems a little high, and I'm just hoping we don't scare away bike sharing completely by going too hard on restrictions.

I know bike-sharing isn't exactly popular in Dallas, but I really that residents and bike share companies could have (eventually) found a way to handle bike sharing on their own without too much city intervention.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby muncien » 11 Jun 2018 08:53

Revenue neutral? For the city, perhaps... and only for now. This is a good way to chase companies away, reduce service to citizens, and do nothing to improve bicycle infrastructure (paint? really?). As these startups round up their bikes to take them to the next city, there will be no revenue here, and we will end up with four city employees that do little other than draw from the general fund. Way to go Dallas!
They should have gone with a more gradual/phased approach, and had some of the regulations go into effect based on city benchmarks (like, bike racks every 1/8th mile in urban areas).
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 11 Jun 2018 09:28

They developed these regulations meeting with representatives from all the bike share companies. You could even call it collusion if you wanted to say the current companies probably made sure things were perfect for them and no one else. Like how Yellow Cab submitted regulations for UBER and LYFT and the mayor actually noticed.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby DPatel304 » 11 Jun 2018 10:00

Meaning the existing bike share companies are all okay and on board with these changes but they want to prevent any new competitors from entering the space?

(I'm only asking for confirmation because these regulations don't seem like something the existing companies would be on board with).

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby The_Overdog » 11 Jun 2018 11:20

Meaning the existing bike share companies are all okay and on board with these changes but they want to prevent any new competitors from entering the space?


There are 5 current bike share companies operating in Dallas- no way regulations are tight enough to prevent a 6th. The fees don't seem egregious either - that's only 18 rides (right? or about 2 days worth per the most used bikes) so another 363 days at current prices for all the other costs of business operations. And it puts a soft cap on the max number of bikes they can afford to operate.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 11 Jun 2018 12:18

Yes, the city held meetings WITH the Bikeshare companies to develop these regulations. The companies know regulations are going to come either way and fees are just a reality so the Ofo's, Limbike etc made sure they had a seat at the table. Afterall other cities could use Dallas regulations as guidelines for their own and those companies want to make sure precedence is in their favor.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby DPatel304 » 11 Jun 2018 12:28

That's re-assuring to know. The last thing I wanted to happen was for Dallas to set some regulations that sent all of these companies away.

If this was a collaborative effort, then this sounds like a good play. I'd imagine the city is happy, the bike share companies are happy, and it sounds like the regulations address the main problem which is the 'mess' which these bikes have caused.

I'm hoping that people will also hold themselves accountable, and will be less likely to trash these bikes if they see that the city is taking better care of them.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby muncien » 12 Jun 2018 09:27

The_Overdog wrote:
Meaning the existing bike share companies are all okay and on board with these changes but they want to prevent any new competitors from entering the space?


There are 5 current bike share companies operating in Dallas- no way regulations are tight enough to prevent a 6th. The fees don't seem egregious either - that's only 18 rides (right? or about 2 days worth per the most used bikes) so another 363 days at current prices for all the other costs of business operations. And it puts a soft cap on the max number of bikes they can afford to operate.


I'm curious where the number above comes from... I can't find any official numbers of rides per bike per day, but according to LimeBike numbers... If you divide their total number of bikes (averaged 3k for their stats, but up to 5k by the end), by the number of total miles ridden (640 per day), by the number of miles per ride (1.3 in Dallas), you come up with 3.6 rides per bike per day. Honestly, even that number seems inflated. But an average of '9 rides per bike per day' seems almost comical.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby The_Overdog » 12 Jun 2018 14:21

I'm sure it's on a distribution where the most popular are above and the least popular well below- and closer to 1-2 per week. But even at "3.6 rides per bike per day" on average, that's only 6 days or 359 days more for other business costs.

I don't find 3-5 rides per per bike per day on average to be that far off. There are 5 companies now - people are using them. I see people riding them even in the suburbs all the time.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby DPatel304 » 12 Jun 2018 15:16

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Afterall other cities could use Dallas regulations as guidelines for their own and those companies want to make sure precedence is in their favor.


It's crazy to think that Dallas could be leading the charge with anything bike related. I'm definitely not complaining, but before V-Bike showed up (which wasn't even that long ago), I had pretty much accepted the fact that it would be at least a decade before biking was taken seriously here.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby Matt777 » 12 Jun 2018 16:43

They are being ridden all over downtown by people of all backgrounds. They are a good thing. Some light regulation is needed and I hope the city doesn't go too far. I would like the data to lead to more bike lanes being put in where people use bikes, and hopefully a network of bike/pedestrian only thoroughfares.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Jul 2018 09:53

In case no one ran into the article here is some proof that while the city may have worked with the bike share companies on regulations it sounds like the city may still have been too aggressive on fees.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dallas-new-bike-share-rules-10845204

Everett Weiler, the general manager of ofo Texas, said in a statement that Dallas' new fees are too high and will likely limit bike-share bikes to high-traffic central locations.


We're fully supportive of smart regulations that promote innovation and protect consumer safety, and we’re certainly willing to pay our fair share to operate in Dallas," Weiler said. "However, these exorbitant fees would be among the highest in the country and severely limit residents’ access to affordable, convenient transportation as providers focus solely on the urban core where demand is highest, harming those in underserved areas who truly need more choice."


The city has to promote the use of these bikes in many areas of town, not just Uptown. Whether it's quickly revitalizing West Dallas or South Dallas or North Dallas. DART should have a promotion with them. DART trains have the problem of the last mile. They don't go right to peoples door stop so they need connective transit that connects the last of the dots. DART should feature these bikes at their transit stops.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby flyswatter » 19 Jul 2018 18:18

Ofo is out and Spin is scaling back their bike numbers:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/transpo ... ide-dallas

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby DPatel304 » 19 Jul 2018 21:25

That's good news for now, but I hope the new regulation doesn't scare away all bike share companies.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby exelone31 » 20 Jul 2018 08:56

Regulation or not, I'm guessing it was bound to happen at some point. The market was flooded so quickly and aggressively that it seemed just a matter of time before one or two (or more) of the companies decided to back out.

Hopefully we're able to retain a couple of them and the city starts focusing on better biking street infrastructure.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 20 Jul 2018 12:24

I haven't seen more than 5 bikes a week since and I live in Oak Lawn and work Downtown and ride the DART bus to work. Seems like the city did scare them all off with their fees. The only bikes I have seen left are a few Limes and Ofo's. Spin disappeared and so did VBike best I can tell. All I am seeing now is Lime and Bird Scooters.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby itsjrd1964 » 03 Aug 2018 15:05

After a high of 5 bikeshare companies represented in Dallas, we will be down to 2: VBike and LimeBike. Ofo and Spin said in the last few weeks they will pull out, now Mobike is reportedly joining them. As for scooters, the city has said there is currently a 6-month trial for those before a decision is made on them.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/third-bike ... two-remain

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby LongonBigD » 03 Aug 2018 16:02

I would think that once the city fees were announced, the companies ran the numbers on how many rides they had and deducted the fees. The result was probably a losing proposition so they got out now. Not sure the two left are profitable either. They may be counting on increased demand due to less competition. Just my thoughts but rooting for the local company to figure it out and succeed. It sure seemed to me the hat a lot of those bikes were being used.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby The_Overdog » 04 Aug 2018 09:32

I don't think the fees were a driver, exactly. Ofo (the Chinese yellow one) exited Phoenix and a bunch of other cities at the same time. Not sure if they all enacted ordnances at the same time or if Dallas or some other city's high fees drove them out of business. As far as I can tell, they were poorly capitalized, overextended and are refocusing on a few (as in 2-3) core cities.

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exelone31
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby exelone31 » 06 Aug 2018 08:35

Not sure if you guys saw, but when Ofo packed up shop, they dumped a boatload of unusable bikes at a Dallas recycling yard:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/08/05/mountain-of-bikes-recycling-yard-ofo-pulls-out-dallas/

According to the story, the bikes that were still in working condition were said to have been donated to non-profits. What's notable about this is that Mayor Mike Rawlings retweeted someone's screengrab of the mountain o' bikes with the word "Terrible" in order to stir up the public about the disposal of these bikes.

https://twitter.com/Mike_Rawlings/status/1026254390544478208?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

What irks me about this entire saga is how armchair-quarterback-y everything has felt. "Oh, there are too many bikes on the sidewalks, take them away." "Oh, there are all these bikes in a recycling center, give them to other people." I realize this forum is essentially a collection of armchair quarterbacks, but to me there's a difference between griping about the aesthetics of a particular building versus griping about the burden inflicted upon the public by an affordable, accessible and not-incredibly obtrusive form of transportation.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby The_Overdog » 06 Aug 2018 09:00

but to me there's a difference between griping about the aesthetics of a particular building versus griping about the burden inflicted upon the public by an affordable, accessible and not-incredibly obtrusive form of transportation.


To me, the number of ridiculous news articles put out about them (including the one that just put out an entire new urbanism issue) is particularly galling. I swear every journalist in Dallas is some angry geriatric grousing about the 'youths'.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby tamtagon » 06 Aug 2018 10:17

...so I'm curious, does the city still try to float a bike rental deal at Fair Park?

also, Funny how this bike share deal has played out, one company comes to town, then all companies come to town making it impossible for any of them to stay in business. Selling usage data appears to generate the profit for all of these companies, so maybe they really only needed a couple months worth of data to be directive, and maybe some planned the quick entry and just as quick exit. Perhaps the cheap, disposable bikes were always intended to end up at a scrap metal place or whatever.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby exelone31 » 06 Aug 2018 11:24

tamtagon wrote:...so I'm curious, does the city still try to float a bike rental deal at Fair Park?


I was there this past weekend and they still had the docked bikes by the Texas Discovery Gardens. I would be shocked if anyone rides them. $5.00 for the first half hour (or hour), then $2.50 per half hour after that. Insanity!

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby DPatel304 » 06 Aug 2018 12:41

exelone31 wrote:
tamtagon wrote:...so I'm curious, does the city still try to float a bike rental deal at Fair Park?


I was there this past weekend and they still had the docked bikes by the Texas Discovery Gardens. I would be shocked if anyone rides them. $5.00 for the first half hour (or hour), then $2.50 per half hour after that. Insanity!


Isn't that pretty standard for 'docked' bike share companies? But yeah, I just don't see how these docked companies will be able to compete against dockless. They are more expensive and offer far less flexibility. Sure they are less 'messy', but I feel like the people actually riding these bikes would rather go for the cheap, more flexible option, even if it does look a bit 'messier'.

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Re: Dallas BikeShare: VBikes, LimeBike, Spin, Ofo, Mobike

Postby DPatel304 » 27 Aug 2018 22:55

Bikes seem to be pretty sparse these days, but the scooters are a huge hit. I've only had a chance to ride them once, but I think they are a fantastic addition to the city, and I hope the city can just let the scooters be, and not try and regulate them and potentially scare them off. I think the fact that the scooters cost more and need to be constantly charged will ensure they won't get as 'messy' as the bikes were, so I think this will end up working out really well.


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