muncien wrote:Thinking out loud here...
But, I know many years ago I suggested that DART create a reduced/free fare area specific to the urban core that would allow DART rail to function more as a streetcar in that area, as it's very suitable to its design. Due to DART's existing fare structure, it actually discourages short trips and as a result hurts ridershio IMO.
The challenge was always with how to manage or enforce such a fare. If it were FREE, you could simply NOT check for passes while in the CBD (this is typically the case anyway). But FREE doesn't really sit well for many reasons.
With GoPass however... that changes things considerably. You could charge .50 or so, and even slightly expand the service area... Maybe from VP To DE and possibly City Place. They could easily restrict this type of fare to GoPass users, and even have it GPS enforced to disable the pass upon leaving the designated fare areas.
I think a little out-of-the-box thinking of these types of tools could increase DART ridership and help encourage GoPass adoption. As it stands now... I think ridesharing is cutting into short distance ridership quite a bit... particularly for the younger population.
WilCo wrote:
I wish we had a system like every other city I've been to with sophisticated mass transit where you just scan at a station and pay based on the distance you've traveled. That may be difficult to install logistically at this point. I can understand the difficulty given most of the stations are outside, however if I remember correct many of the San Francisco and Chicago train stations were outside too and had the same system.
DPatel304 wrote:Well, I guess it's good we don't have express trains then..haha. I had not considered how unfair it would be to certain paying cities of DART, and also how it would encourage even more sprawl up north, so, with that said, I'm thinking this isn't my best idea. I think, even with all the points outlined, I would still like to see an express train that goes from Downtown Fort Worth to Downtown Dallas at least. Seems like part of the long term HSR plan is to incorporate Fort Worth, but, because the distance is so short, I feel like we could accomplish almost the same thing with the existing trains if we made them an 'express' train.
I definitely agree with Cbdallas, in that we need more development around existing stations.
Cbdallas wrote:When all of the trains are full all day then that is when we start thinking about express trains. Until then lets focus on dense train station development and ridership first and one mile radius station pathway improvements.
electricron wrote:The easiest solution is to install a third track so the express train can see clear ahead lights the entire length of the corridor - so that it can actually go fast!
tanzoak wrote:electricron wrote:The easiest solution is to install a third track so the express train can see clear ahead lights the entire length of the corridor - so that it can actually go fast!
Great to have an ops perspective on express service as well! I just want to point out that you wouldn't have to have a third track along the entire corridor to get this benefit, though, as you could construct overtake locations where necessary.
muncien wrote:And you need a lot less 3rd track if it is installed along the stations that are 'skipped', since passing a stopped train is a lot easier than passing a train at speed. I'm sure some numbers people can work out exactly how many trains you can 'leap' during a given express run. I highly doubt it would be more than one or two... which could save you between 15-23 minutes during peak time.
dzh wrote:Are there any urban explorers out there that think they can get into any of these places? And if so, can provide pictures...
Also if parts of the infrastructure are already place, why wouldn't they think of connecting the existing DART along these paths as part of the D2 expansion?
tamtagon wrote:Is it too much to hope that enthusiastic partnerships will extend TRE to Kaufman County, using that subway plan?
DPatel304 wrote:
https://www.gopass.org/
I know some sort of 'tap to pay' system was being discussion on this forum not too long ago, but sounds like it will be a reality sometime this year?
cowboyeagle05 wrote:Easily foiled as there is no authentication process and could be faked by simply showing a video at full screen to drivers who don't have time to fiddle with checking. I imagine I may have to start tapping just so they can authenticate my ticket and track usage data which would be much better for DART anyway. Also, I don't expect a bunch of people are faking their tickets based on their ridership numbers and the type of riders they attract to monthly passes so it's kinda a moot point.
lakewoodhobo wrote:The new GoPass App is out now, and so far it looks like a huge improvement. My 30-day pass transferred seamlessly to the new version and I can now see busses and trains moving on the map in real time. Also looking forward to paying with Touch ID.
Good job, DART.
IMG_6532.jpg
The DART train doesn't stop at the Knox Street station.
It never did.
But back in the early 1990s when DART was starting its light rail system, an underground station was planned at Knox Street and North Central Expressway.
Robyn Kirk of Dallas asked Curious Texas if the regional transit system ever intends to complete the Knox Street station.
Currently there are no plans.
Her question caught the attention of Curious Texas, the ongoing project from The Dallas Morning News that invites you to put our reporters on the hunt of information. The idea is simple: You have questions, and our journalists track down answers.
The Knox Street station was one of two subway stops planned on the DART line between downtown and Mockingbird Station.
While the CityPlace/Uptown station was built, Knox Street would up just being a hole in the ground.
After neighborhood groups near Knox and Henderson Avenue protested construction of the Knox Station, DART officials agreed to delete the planned stop.
DART construction crews excavated a cavern that to house the Knox Station, but they never built out the station.
In 1999 a developer planning an office high-rise at Knox and North Central looked at completing the Knox subway stop, but plans for the project never got on track. And the money has never been available to do the construction.
The unbuilt Knox Street station is one of two underground train depots in Dallas that were abandoned.
Clair Crossland of Dallas asked Curious Texas about another unfinished subway station — this one downtown. She asked if a building on Pacific Street was required to have a multilevel sub-basement intended to be a DART subway station.
When developers planned downtown's 49-story 1700 Pacific skyscraper in the early 1980s, they constructed an underground chamber to house a subway station.
Back then the DART rail line through downtown was proposed as an underground route along Pacific Avenue. So the Canadian developer building 1700 Pacific — then called First City Centre — constructed an underground vault at Ervay Street and Pacific to house the station.
The builders contributed the huge underground chamber in return for the closure of a street through part of the block and other zoning concessions.
But DART's downtown line ended up on the surface a block away on Bryan Street.
And the underground station at 1700 Pacific is all but forgotten.
Owners of the skyscraper say the entrance is still covered by a metal trap door in the basement of the office tower.
"Maybe DART will add the planned route someday," Crossland said.
Plans for a second downtown DART line call for a subway on the south side of financial district.
After neighborhood groups near Knox and Henderson Avenue protested construction of the Knox Station, DART officials agreed to delete the planned stop.
Hannibal Lecter wrote:"A handful of people wish it was there now though."
TIFIFY.
If you took a poll of the folks who actually live in my neighborhood (Deep Ellum) you would find overwhelming support for closing the two Green Line stations due to the crime it brings and traffic congestion it causes.
About a week ago I saw a fire truck and MICU on an emergency run from Station 3 stuck on Malcolm X for 2 to 3 minutes because a train driver at the station had hit the button to lower the crossing gate, then got out of the train and walked to the other end of the train. They love to close the gates long before they leave the station. I see ambulances going to Baylor stuck on Hall Street all the time.
cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yet now it will never happen because to build it would mean shutting down the red and blue lines for months to build out the station. The neighborhood and developers wish it was there now though.
For DART and the neighborhood, it makes more sense to fund the streetcar extension to Knox Henderson than to try to build out the station.
cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yet now it will never happen because to build it would mean shutting down the red and blue lines for months to build out the station. The neighborhood and developers wish it was there now though.
For DART and the neighborhood, it makes more sense to fund the streetcar extension to Knox Henderson than to try to build out the station.
TNWE wrote:Between this and Matt777's proposed streetcar plan, I think DART could manage both for less than the additional costs of a fully underground D2. There's even enough left over for the DART board to take a field trip to Portland or Denver to see how street-level LRT can work.
electricron wrote:The DART board wouldn't have to fly to Portland or Denver to see how a street level LRT can work. There's the mall downtown right outside DART's headquarters building, there's Lancaster Road Blue Line segments, and there's the Orange Line segment in Irving's Las Colinas area where DART runs light rail trains within city streets.
But here's the rub, the streets are not owned by DART, they are owned by the cities. And if the city doesn't want light rail trains in specific streets, there will not be light rail in them. The City of Dallas wants the subway for D2 downtown, so it's a D2 subway or bust.
cowboyeagle05 wrote:I think it has more to do with the battle of Dallas VS the burbs.
Somewhere along the way, DART got more concerned with getting Plano and Addison to DFW Airport. The Dallas city council saw the D2 segment getting pushed further and further down the line and didn't want to wait another 20 years for transit growth in the inner city so DART could build an express route to the airport for what can come across as two suburbs. The underground vs street level part was a part of what came across as more proof of DART being more concerned with suburban transportation than the city of Dallas transit needs. The Dallas city council wanted to force DART to pay attention and spend what they perceived as appropriate funds and attention to inner city transit needs.
cowboyeagle05 wrote:Honestly, this has been DART biggest issue, well next to a terrible bus system. DART can see Dallas and the burbs as equal players on the field and try to add major projects that don't always appear to serve all the players. Dallas for awhile has played along as just another suburb by not trying to force more Dallas focused improvements. We obviously are the center in a wheel and spoke LRT system DART has been building out for decades so Dallas is still the biggest winner but like any child, we want more. The burbs certainly have plenty of economic will to hold DART to the fire on their needs as well. The reality that places like Legacy serves just as many employees as Downtown Dallas is a hard one to balance for DART when playing the local politics chess game. If we build Cotton Belt line will we have the flexibility to open new routes like streetcars or will DART be stuck trying to take care of too many babies screaming for transit attention all over the DART service area?
TNWE wrote:There are better, more impactful ways to spend $1.2 Billion besides a "look at us, we're a big city" subway for Dallas's insecure city council and DART board members...
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