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DTD Riverfront Project

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Dallas12
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DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Dallas12 » 31 Jan 2018 12:19

From Steve Brown today. It sounds like there is still a large amount of red tape to get this to fruition.

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https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... nity-river

cowboyeagle05
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Jan 2018 12:43

So keep in mind these very conceptual renderings since they were done up by CBRE. They are merely there to sell the property not to actually build this exact product. I wouldn't get too much hope on what you see in them just that Forest City and Trademark were obviously sold on the idea.

With that said no stand-alone CVS Pharmacy, suburban Kroger, Sam's Club or garden style apartments please.

Dear Forest City/Trademark find some way to look towards the future and build something that will change the face of Riverfront Blvd and not just wall off itself from the Bail Bonds and Jail. Build something that truly does try to look beyond the freeways and ditch of a river we have now.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby joshua.dodd » 31 Jan 2018 14:32

This is the property Mark Cuban owns, right?

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Dallas12
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Dallas12 » 31 Jan 2018 15:24

joshua.dodd wrote:This is the property Mark Cuban owns, right?

The DBJ article says it is owned by a “group of principals affiliated with GeoSouthern Energy Corp. based in the Woodlands.”

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Jan 2018 17:42

joshua.dodd wrote:This is the property Mark Cuban owns, right?

It’s property he had the option of buying for the Mavs HQ and passed on it. He bought the land in the Design District instead.

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jrd1964
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby jrd1964 » 01 Feb 2018 07:30

But, how many people really would want to live so close to the jails, or how many would want that as their main focus when they look out their windows?

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eburress
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby eburress » 01 Feb 2018 08:20

Isn't there a plan to decommission and remove those jails? If I had to guess, those jails will be gone before anybody has to see them out of their nextdoor windows, which may say as much about this project's prospects as it does about the jail's longevity.

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whit5125
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby whit5125 » 01 Feb 2018 08:33

eburress wrote:Isn't there a plan to decommission and remove those jails? If I had to guess, those jails will be gone before anybody has to see them out of their nextdoor windows, which may say as much about this project's prospects as it does about the jail's longevity.


Seriously, this. That damn jail needs to go. Half of it isnt in use anymore, but the issue is that the county will do its best to keep the jail there regardless and will refuse to pay, because that is what Dallas County does.

The whole complex doesnt need to be moved and torn down, just the jail portion itself and the abandoned jail across the street. The actual building that houses the offices and the court system offices isnt actually the worst looking building ever and could probably blend in just fine with surrounding development.

So is there actually a plan to move that jail or a link to the plan?

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 Feb 2018 08:43

whit5125 wrote:
eburress wrote:Isn't there a plan to decommission and remove those jails? If I had to guess, those jails will be gone before anybody has to see them out of their nextdoor windows, which may say as much about this project's prospects as it does about the jail's longevity.


Seriously, this. That damn jail needs to go. Half of it isnt in use anymore, but the issue is that the county will do its best to keep the jail there regardless and will refuse to pay, because that is what Dallas County does.

The whole complex doesnt need to be moved and torn down, just the jail portion itself and the abandoned jail across the street. The actual building that houses the offices and the court system offices isnt actually the worst looking building ever and could probably blend in just fine with surrounding development.

So is there actually a plan to move that jail or a link to the plan?



Since when has half the jail not been in use? They just expanded the jail in the last few years. The private state jail across the street was closed and it actually had dangerous criminals in it. That was the real problem for developers.

If Forest City and Trademark are buying the property I doubt their indicators have shown it will as big of an issue as some of you think.

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tamtagon
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby tamtagon » 01 Feb 2018 08:48

Any fancy development next door to the jail will simply have few windows on the jail side, out of sight out of mind.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby lakewoodhobo » 01 Feb 2018 09:05

If there were ever a case for a big, soulless parking garage that doesn't address the space around it, it would be here. Make it 6-8 levels and then build some type of mesh screen above that and call it art. The buildings to the north of it can gradually increase in height so that the tallest building is farthest from the jail.

Actually, "hiding" the jail isn't as big of a challenge as connecting the properties north and south of Woodall Rodgers. Your options are 1) use the sidewalk on Riverfront or 2) build some kind of ramp to the levee and down to the Skyline trail so people take the existing ramp back up to the levee north of the Continental bridge.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 02 Feb 2018 15:32

The jail should be somewhere near I-20. Needs to be moved. Easier said than done.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Tnexster » 02 Feb 2018 20:31

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The jail should be somewhere near I-20. Needs to be moved. Easier said than done.


That's a statement. Just send it down south.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Hwulivn » 03 Feb 2018 02:07

Tnexster wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The jail should be somewhere near I-20. Needs to be moved. Easier said than done.


That's a statement. Just send it down south.

And why should it be near I-20?

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joshua.dodd
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby joshua.dodd » 03 Feb 2018 02:28

Further from the city center. The 20 corridor in Dallas is essentially a warehouse district now.

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tamtagon
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby tamtagon » 03 Feb 2018 08:11

If you're gonna move the jail, Galleria Midtown might be better, or somewhere off Lemmon by Love Field.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 03 Feb 2018 08:48

Hwulivn wrote:
Tnexster wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The jail should be somewhere near I-20. Needs to be moved. Easier said than done.


That's a statement. Just send it down south.

And why should it be near I-20?

I would like to be clear that my statement isn't one founded in disdain for South Dallas.

There's actually a lot of open land , some of which has been purchased for numerous warehouse projects in recent years and we have a landfill already near by. Why not there? The Jail brings nothing but bail bond businesses. I Much rather put it in area that has little potential for revitalization and a low population density. Where it's at now is probably the worst location possible. That's my opinion. But sure move it to midtown. Lol

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tamtagon
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby tamtagon » 03 Feb 2018 10:03

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The Jail brings nothing but bail bond businesses. I Much rather put it in area that has little potential for revitalization and a low population density. Where it's at now is probably the worst location possible. That's my opinion. But sure move it to midtown. Lol


I would say a more accurate chain is, 'The courtrooms bring nothing but jails and bail bond businesses.' As it is now, the jail simply must be near the courts. Supersizing the jail houses and consolidating them downtown is a bigger problem; it's supposed to save money by having everyone serve time in the same location (close to the court), but rehabilitative services (for those needing it or there that long) were scraped out of the whole process. Maybe each neighborhood should have a jail sized to the residential population of the neighborhood.

Whatever, but if we're going to seriously think about a better place for gigantic county jails, we need to first think about why they're all downtown.

On another note, I'm wondering about how all this presumed development should interact with the levees and other flood control initiatives. Like, there's probably a way to build adjacent to the levee that enhances, reinforces and strengthens the overall system. Maybe this entire proposed development area should be build on a top of a 500 year flood pedestal... something like an (above gound?!?!?!) basement that can handle and mitigate a catastrophic flood...

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Hwulivn
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Hwulivn » 03 Feb 2018 10:38

tamtagon wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The Jail brings nothing but bail bond businesses. I Much rather put it in area that has little potential for revitalization and a low population density. Where it's at now is probably the worst location possible. That's my opinion. But sure move it to midtown. Lol


I would say a more accurate chain is, 'The courtrooms bring nothing but jails and bail bond businesses.' As it is now, the jail simply must be near the courts. Supersizing the jail houses and consolidating them downtown is a bigger problem; it's supposed to save money by having everyone serve time in the same location (close to the court), but rehabilitative services (for those needing it or there that long) were scraped out of the whole process. Maybe each neighborhood should have a jail sized to the residential population of the neighborhood.

Whatever, but if we're going to seriously think about a better place for gigantic county jails, we need to first think about why they're all downtown.

On another note, I'm wondering about how all this presumed development should interact with the levees and other flood control initiatives. Like, there's probably a way to build adjacent to the levee that enhances, reinforces and strengthens the overall system. Maybe this entire proposed development area should be build on a top of a 500 year flood pedestal... something like an (above gound?!?!?!) basement that can handle and mitigate a catastrophic flood...


Moving the jail to southern Dallas would continue a history of locating low income housing, land fills, incompatible uses, truck stops, etc in southern Dallas. It would send the wrong message to existing businesses, residents, and potential investors and would further complicate efforts to build economic momentum for the area. The jail needs to be mitigated where it is.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Tnexster » 03 Feb 2018 10:39

joshua.dodd wrote:Further from the city center. The 20 corridor in Dallas is essentially a warehouse district now.


Warehouses represent jobs, like them or not they do provide jobs and thousands of them at that. And they also are offering jobs in an area of the city that desperately needs them. This "warehouse district" gives workers entry level opportunities and place to grow. Most warehouses are much more advanced than they used to be and require much higher skill levels to keep them running. The attitude on this forum by some of the members regarding the south is pretty bad. I would have thought that would have been better these days but apparently it isn't. I would love to see somebody with an opinion like this go into a public meeting and explain why the jail belongs down in their community because the I-20 area is nothing more than a warehouse district. AllianceTexas is a warehouse district but I bet nobody would suggest that Fort Worth send their jail up there.

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tamtagon
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby tamtagon » 03 Feb 2018 11:38

^ya, if we're going to have new municipal infrastructures, the unsavory burdens should be shared with the north so the south gets a chance to load up on the nicer things.

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Cooleyhigh
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Cooleyhigh » 03 Feb 2018 13:43

I think there's already a prison off I-20 near I-45 and another a few miles further east in Seagoville. For this to fly, there needs to be options for current residents and those who will be gentrified in West Dallas. We need more low-income and affordable housing in Downtown Dallas and in all areas North. Why should folks in southern Dallas, regardless of economic status, have to endure another jail or prison in their neighborhood?

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joshua.dodd
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby joshua.dodd » 03 Feb 2018 13:49

The southern sector of the city is less dense and less populated than the northern districts, which is why new warehouse districts are popping up and why it is the perfect location for a new jail. . .

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gshelton91
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby gshelton91 » 09 Feb 2018 14:56

You know all they need to do is put a mirrored glass facade on the buildings and they will look like any other office building. I think the bigger problem with that cite is that it is cut off from the rest of Downtown. You are close to downtown but divided by a huge freeway.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby tamtagon » 12 Feb 2018 10:10

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ces-center

Could old Dallas jail be reborn as new homeless services center?

Written by Steve Brown

..."This is an opportunity to do something for these people, but not in the traditional way where you have a warehouse and you put a lot of beds in there," Moayedi said. "There has to a situation where people are treated with respect."

Because the building has almost no parking, developers haven't been able to come up with a plan to convert the building into apartments, offices or other uses ... "The building is useless when it comes to anything else."

"It will take about $10 million ... I want to do it privately without any help from the government. ..."We are going to work with faith-based organizations to try and get this done."

He said the facility could house up to 1,000 people with facilities for medical, mental health and job counseling services. "You couldn't find a better location - it's surrounded by commercial properties."



I'll go ahead and answer this headline's question: No. Just about everything cited in that blog post sounds like a false promise.

1) The building is useless because it has almost no parking

2) Treat the homeless with respect, "...not in the traditional way where you have a warehouse and you put a lot of beds in there" yet he anticipates a facility could house up to 1,000 people.

3) "You couldn't find a better location - it's surrounded by commercial properties." Oh please, someone needs a map and better grip on reality.... this jail is surrounded by another Jail and it's parking lots, the Trinity River flood channel, railroad tracks and highways, Bail Bonds and liquor stores.

This is a nightmare scenario for the homeless population.

If you actually intend to help and house those temporarily homeless, the facility should accommodate no more than ten people or three family groups. Piling up to 1,000 homeless people into a 10 story renovated jail building makes recovery even more difficult.

Are we actually being asked to believe there's no where to park or nothing could be done to increasing parking. Look at the picture.

The only time I could see this proposal has any merit is in an emergency.
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby lakewoodhobo » 12 Feb 2018 10:25

tamtagon wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2018/02/12/could-old-dallas-jail-reborn-new-homeless-services-center

Could old Dallas jail be reborn as new homeless services center?

Written by Steve Brown


I'll go ahead and answer this headline's question: No.


I wonder what Centurion is really trying to do here. Are they really interested in running a homeless facility or is this a way to get a building for pennies on the dollar? Maybe they use this as leverage when asking City Hall for favors in the future.

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tamtagon
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby tamtagon » 12 Feb 2018 10:44

^Centurion wants a bunch of churches to pay for scraping out everything that makes this building a jail and probably turn it into a data center or something like that.

I don't believe there's a social services professional in this country who would honestly say it's productive and healing to house up to a thousand hobos/vagrants/temporarily homeless folks into one building anywhere let alone next to a jail and all the liquor stores.

There's certainly the need for a large scale "homeless population processing center" but that is a function resting solely with the public hospital. Temporary dwellings must be spread across the city in stable neighborhoods, same with housing societal orphans incapable of taking care of themselves.

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I45Tex
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby I45Tex » 12 Feb 2018 11:06

Fortunately there is an opportunity now for us to treat the homeless with respect —

https://candysdirt.com/2017/12/20/mehrd ... side-pics/

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby lakewoodhobo » 28 Feb 2018 11:19

Developers Plant Their Flags on Trinity Park’s Future
https://dallas.towers.net/2018/02/27/de ... ks-future/

This story combines 505 Riverfront, Dawson Jail and Slate "City Lights" (W. Commerce & Beckley, which we haven't heard from in a while) in one story. However, the author oddly misidentifies 505 Riverfront as the site of Trinity Groves's future hotel and office project.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby lakewoodhobo » 23 Mar 2018 11:38

Dallas riverfront project would bring shopping and apartment towers
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ent-towers

Preliminary plans call for a high-density development with 400,000 square feet of shopping and restaurant space plus 3.5 to 4 million square feet of commercial and residential building.

The developers plan to work with the Corps of Engineers and the city to come up with a way to access the river levee for public and private use.

"This is a Trinity centric project," Pruitt said. "This is a long term project - it's a 10-year project."

Image

Forest City and the architects are working on several proposals to raise high-rise buildings planned along the riverbank up to the level of the levee. The buildings and the new neighborhood would be linked to the river park by either bridges or infill on the backside of the levee.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Matt777 » 23 Mar 2018 12:27

I passed the HKS office at One Dallas Center during my lunch break today, and they had a lot of graphics posted on the wall. One caught my eye. It was a computer generated layout the Southwest corner of the CBD, with some development mapped out. The Trinity River was completely filled in with water, shore to shore, and it looked like Downtown Dallas with a waterfront. It was very intriguing as I have talked before about completely filling the Trinity around Downtown and making it a reservoir like Lady Bird Lake in downtown Austin (which is man-made). Then a boardwalk, piers, and waterside development along it.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby lakewoodhobo » 23 Mar 2018 16:02

One other interesting aspect is the amount of retail planned:

A new street would run through the middle of the project from Stemmons Freeway to the river. The project would include a multi-level big box retail center.


It would be great to see Target move here so that Cityplace Market can finally evolve into something urban.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby Tnexster » 25 Mar 2018 22:23

Somewhere along the line I heard this site was pretty high on Amazon's list in Dallas. Seems like a difficult location for transit options but I guess we will find out soon. To be honest I hope they go somewhere else.

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eburress
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby eburress » 26 Mar 2018 15:01

Matt777 wrote:I passed the HKS office at One Dallas Center during my lunch break today, and they had a lot of graphics posted on the wall. One caught my eye. It was a computer generated layout the Southwest corner of the CBD, with some development mapped out. The Trinity River was completely filled in with water, shore to shore, and it looked like Downtown Dallas with a waterfront. It was very intriguing as I have talked before about completely filling the Trinity around Downtown and making it a reservoir like Lady Bird Lake in downtown Austin (which is man-made). Then a boardwalk, piers, and waterside development along it.

I would love to see that happen!

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Mar 2018 15:11

Look at it this way Amazon would require the city to meet some goals on the Trinity project if they felt it was a large part of the attraction to a site they might choose. Similarly, when Forest City was initially going to do the Mercantile redo they put the city on contract to build Main Street Gardens by a certain date. Forest City knew the park would be an asset to sell units and if Amazon is considering any sites close to the Trinity they would require some commitment by the city on moving the Trinity park forward. Amazon won't be sold by the usual look at these pretty renderings of one day what it could be in a fantasy land that the Trinity boosters have been passing out since 98.

That's the kind of "incentives" I could be more excited about. The kind where the city contractually needs to make improvements to retain a company like Amazon. Lord knows the only thing that lights City Hall's keester is corporate influence. Amazon could potentially see it as a way to make a positive impact and PR splash if they are the reason the Trinity appears to have finally moved forward.

Mind you that's if they don't wanna stay out of all the BS that has weighed down the project since 98 and beyond.

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exelone31
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby exelone31 » 26 Mar 2018 15:42

This may be the most hokey conclusion to jump to, but I think it would be amazingly appropriate/ironic if Amazon the company were able to be the final catalyst to turn our dreams of a large, wide river amenity into a reality.

Maybe they could rename the Trinity the "Lil Amazon".

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby art_suckz » 29 Mar 2018 10:07

Vision for big Dallas riverfront project comes into focus

By Bill Hethcock – Staff Writer, Dallas Business Journal
Mar 23, 2018, 2:10pm


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ml?ana=twt

"We think this site will have demand for all four of the commercial real estate uses, from hotel, retail to multi-family to office, and would be a place where Google would go if they wanted to be downtown and have the ability for employees to walk to work," Montesi said Jan. 31.

"There would be some cool factor to it with less spit-shine and polish compared with Uptown," he added. "I think this could be a great new neighborhood."


We'll need a street car down this way now....

I like the "less spit-shine" part too, I've been worried about the design district being consumed.
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby DPatel304 » 29 Mar 2018 10:29

I wonder if there are a lot of companies just sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what Amazon will do with their HQ2, though I'm not sure exactly what the benefit would be. Maybe there are smaller companies that will want to go where Amazon goes? Maybe there are larger companies that will try and 'swoop in' and cut a deal with the cites that didn't get Amazon.

This article mentions this site could attract a company like Google, so this was just a thought.

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PonyUp13
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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby PonyUp13 » 29 Mar 2018 21:26

Riverfront is so wide I think you could get some easy BRT going for minimal cost. Go from Medical District Station south on Market Center, then along Riverfront with dedicated lanes and a few “stations” in the median, looping back to another DART station... either Union Station or Cedars.

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Re: DTD Riverfront Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 30 Mar 2018 08:16

I am all for a quick and dirty BRT to get things moving. Make a plan for building out better stations. Do a studied plan to determine if the streetcar is the eventual need and how long BRT might serve the same function for how long.


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