Collin Creek Mall

[The_Overdog]

The city of Plano is funding a study to consider daylighting Spring Creek on the east side of Collin Creek Mall's parking lot. Two proposals will be studied -one to just daylight the creek and a second to include some ponds or something more like an 'amenity zone'.

I'm guessing this is the start of phase 1 of the redevelopment process for the mall.

[The_Overdog]

Macys will soon close, leaving only Sears, JC Penny, and Amazing Jakes as the anchors.

[DPatel304]

Can't wait to see what becomes of this mall. Plano is still in high demand, and this is a huge plot of land just waiting to be redeveloped. Perhaps 75/Bush has the potential to become the next DNT/121 intersection.

[vman]

Macys will soon close, leaving only Sears, JC Penny, and Amazing Jakes as the anchors.

That really puts this place on life support. Can't believe Macy's is closing this store and keeping the store in Irving Mall open. I used to imagine a redevelopment of both of these malls could be a pedestrian friendly open air concept that could include a new free-standing Macy's store. But considering Macy's current state, that seems unlikely.

[muncien]

Interestingly enough, both these malls that you mention (Collin Creek & Irving) have actual creeks running underneath them with trails nearby. The opportunity for a more open air redevelopment oriented around a day lighted water way, and connected to adjacent neighborhoods, is something that should be capitalized on.
City of Irving has some site plans depicting such a setup on their recently unveiled vision plans for the city, but I'm pretty sure they're just ideas and I doubt there is any concrete coordination with actual owner/developer yet.
But, this is something both of these malls should turn to. Incorporating residential into the developments would be an added bonus. Plenty of land to go around, and very high traffic locations for both.

[The_Overdog]

I completely agree. Collin Creek Mall is actually not connected to its nearby neighborhood at all - there are no sidewalks along Alma Road connecting any of the nearby homes or apartments to the mall, and the mall is fronted by empty space with no sidewalks, and the entry on the neighborhood side is surprisingly narrow, as in only wide enough for cars with no real space for walking. The neighborhoods surrounding the mall for the most part don't have sidewalks, which is actually very rare for a Plano neighborhood. All around this area has had almost no investment really since it was built. And you are correct that the Plano Chisolm Trail runs nearby, but the mall nor neighborhoods are connected to it in any way.

I also can't believe they covered the creek for overflow parking. Nothing about the design and placement of this mall was context sensitive or anything but lazy and dumb.

Funnily enough, if Macys holds on for about another year in this location, the first new residences in 30 years will come on-line nearby at the corner of Alma & Plano Parkway, and the new Cityline area not more than a mile away will bring another ~1000 residents. May help it hold on for another year.

[LongonBigD]

I specifically went to this Macy's during the holiday shopping blitz because I knew there would be nobody shopping there. I was right. I guess the secret's out.

[exelone31]

http://www.guidelive.com/food-and-drink/2017/01/25/rodeo-goat-burgers-flying-fish-restaurant-opening-plano?_ga=1.187590959.660497674.1475513503

Good news for the Collin Creek Mall area. Didn't realize they were incorporating retail into this development. Would pair verrrrry nicely with a redo of the Mall site.

[Tnexster]

I specifically went to this Macy's during the holiday shopping blitz because I knew there would be nobody shopping there. I was right. I guess the secret's out.

I remember when I used to go to malls.

[The_Overdog]

JC Penny at Collin Creek Mall (and all DFW area stores) survives the latest purge of 138 stores nationwide. It will remain open.

[The_Overdog]

Word on the street is that a developer has purchased 50 acres of Collin Creek Mall and has put together a mixed use development which retains most of the mall, and the developer is looking to purchase another 50 acres surrounding the mall.

I think they are still reviewing initial plans with neighborhood groups that are generally supportive.

[tamtagon]

So far, I've been loving the new life proposed for this suburban shopping mall.

[DPatel304]

Word on the street is that a developer has purchased 50 acres of Collin Creek Mall and has put together a mixed use development which retains most of the mall, and the developer is looking to purchase another 50 acres surrounding the mall.

I think they are still reviewing initial plans with neighborhood groups that are generally supportive.

Just stumbled upon the article for this:
https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... ome-focus/

[jrd1964]

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... amazon-hq2

There may be a buyer for the mall property. A developer is looking at redevelopment, with the possibility of attracting Amazon's 2nd corporate campus.

[LongonBigD]

I really like the idea of daylighting Spring Creek (currently under the mall) and bringing mixed use. I can see this as a hybrid of Legacy and Watters Creek. A real opportunity here for Plano to further expand its cache and tax base.

[tamtagon]

(parking) Lots of potential at Collin Creek Mall. We may be watching phase three of the formidable suburban evolution pioneered in Plano.

[I45Tex]

Think they beat you to that suburbia phase three tagline already:

http://www.gatewayplanning.com/radiate/ ... .20.17.pdf

[tamtagon]

^hahaha

[The_Overdog]

I see they are mentioning the "northern CottonBelt alternative" to Amazon for that site but Richardson and DART are pushing the southern CottonBelt alternative pretty hard, and have an engineering plan and potential station locations determined already. Also there is no station adjacent, so Amazon would be able to watch the train go by but wouldn't really be able to use it.
Regionalism. Haha.

[DPatel304]

One possible plan to redevelop Plano's ailing Collin Creek Mall depicts a sized-down retail center supplemented by mixed-use concepts and a man-made riverwalk feature. (Rendering courtesy Dreien Opportunity Partners)

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... ring-part/

[NdoorTX]

Here are some renderings from Omniplan. I don't know if they are the current vision- but quite a change!
http://www.omniplan.com/work/projects/collincreek.html

[whit5125]

This plan looks promising, if a little too hopeful, but I'll take it. That mall is fast on its way to being what happened to valley view.

But please let's stop with the nonsense that this is a site for Amazon. Its not. If anyone bothered to read any of the requirements, of which Plano as a whole does not meet, and only can offer cheap land and easy access to DFW. Amazon has already been touring the sites in downtown Dallas and never visited the burbs.

If Amazon chooses DFW, it will only be in downtown.

[cowboyeagle05]

But regionalism!!!!!

[The_Overdog]

Apparently the redesign on this property is on-hold again as Dreien Partners couldn't reach a deal with Amazing Jakes to sell. The Amazing Jakes property is on the east side and adjacent to the open river/creek in the fancy renderings though what is now the parking lot.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... s-on-hold/

[exelone31]

Apparently the redesign on this property is on-hold again as Dreien Partners couldn't reach a deal with Amazing Jakes to sell. The Amazing Jakes property is on the east side and adjacent to the open river/creek in the fancy renderings though what is now the parking lot.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... s-on-hold/

Wow, I didn't realize the anchor tenants actually owned the properties they are on. I always thought a single company owned the entire mall building. That's a bummer, as that area would really benefit from a refreshed development.

[The_Overdog]

Wow, I didn't realize the anchor tenants actually owned the properties they are on

Yes, it's pretty common that the anchor tenants own their own land - which is why redeveloping malls is so hard. I think Valley View is having the same problems with various owners. That's why malls as designed slowly die rather than being redone- it's hard to do anything big with them because there are too many cooks in the kitchen.

[cowboyeagle05]

Yeah in the case of departments stores like Sears they have partnered with a firm to redevelop the property their stores sit on even when it's on a mall property in every location they have or had a store on.

[itsjrd1964]

A snag in negotiations with a lender has led to a lawsuit.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -mall-deal

[The_Overdog]

After Sam Ware lost the mall to the lender and lawsuit mentioned above, now developer Mehrdad Moayedi's Centurion American Development Group (they did the Statler Hotel) is attempting to purchase Collin Creek Mall, signed a purchase contract, and has 90 days to close.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... creek-mall

The lawsuit article stated that the Oklahoma lender that changed requirements on Ware killing his deal - also suggested another buyer was interested and they gave confidential info to them. Not sure if that other potential buyer is Centurion American or not.

[cowboyeagle05]

Centurion seems like they could be getting ahead of themselves considering they are doing the Cabana Hotel and that massive mixed-use development project in South Dallas and still working on the Statler. As long as they finish the former Cabana Hotel on 35 I'll just sit back and watch the rest unfold if they fail taking on these larger and larger projects.

[itsjrd1964]

Centurion has completed the Collin Creek acquisition. Plans for the property include:
* Retaining about 400,000 square feet of retail space
* Several retail and restaurant spots
* New townhouses/condos
* Moving the JCPenney store to another part of the development

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... se-project

[exelone31]

Centurion has completed the Collin Creek acquisition. Plans for the property include:
* Retaining about 400,000 square feet of retail space
* Several retail and restaurant spots
* New townhouses/condos
* Moving the JCPenney store to another part of the development

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... se-project

That's great news! Hopefully that area is able to be revitalized and set a model for other malls in the area.

[itsjrd1964]

Ch.5's news weighs in, including an interview with Plano's current mayor.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/Ne ... 54761.html

[itsjrd1964]

Collin Creek Mall sale cost lenders almost $50 million in losses

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ion-losses

[itsjrd1964]

Plano residents get first look at Collin Creek mall redo plan

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -redo-plan

[The_Overdog]

I was able to attend since Collin County is still part of my beat. The plan calls for almost the entire mall area to be raised up to street level, with all the underground being parking. So the 2nd floor of the existing mall will be ground level, with the current first level underground. 3100 apartments will be built on the site, and approximately 1000 units of 3 story condo/townhouse/small lot single family. The office will be on the west side, sold to and built by whomever wants the opportunity.

The majority of the shops will not be straight rent, but rather percentage of sales, and I believe Centurion America (the developer) will own and operate the first 9 restaurants built.

The water level in the buried creek is too low to be useful, and they are unable to dam it to create deeper water so it will remain buried. They will build a shelf and a linear park to extend the biking trail which currently ends behind BigLots/Feeds/whatever else is on the corner over there.

There were a few hundred people there, and the median age was above 60, so it's easy to see why the mall failed. That is not the demographic for mall stores. You could probably have counted the number of younger families there on your fingers and toes.
However, that is not to say they were opposed to the development, at least not vocally at the meeting.

Also it was held in the long closed Dillards, which was like a super creepy time capsule to enter again. I'm sure this helped everyone there realize that mall is a goner. Also, I swear that the few hundred people at the meeting increased the number of total people in the mall tenfold.

And if everything gets approved in time, the mall will close in August-September-ish for construction.

[tamtagon]

So, like, this sounds pretty good, just the sort recycle/reuse approach that'll work.

...taking a call out the Uptown Dallas playbook, Downtown Plano is on the verge of whole new world with this shopping center conversion into a significant residential address. Run a streetcar from the Collin Creek Residence to Downtown Plano DART station to the pending N Avenue Cotton Belt station. Point source transit oriented development, something like that, but the next step in the evolution of American suburban living -- naturally becoming more urban because people like living in large groups... some are herds, some flocks, some packs, pride, gaggle, murder, clutch, pod whatever the style of tight knit community suits the personality, but the huge variation of experiences and encounters possible in future Downtown Plano would allow for tens (?) of thousands more residents without "infringing" on the suburban neighborhood environment too much.

[exelone31]

I really hope this gets rolling without any pushback. I know Plano has had its share of NIMBYs making lots of noise, but this development makes a ton of sense.

The question becomes, which redevelopment will finish first: Collin Creek Mall or Valley View Mall?

[The_Overdog]

Run a streetcar from the Collin Creek Residence to Downtown Plano DART station to the pending N Avenue Cotton Belt station.

There were lots of questions about this, and the answer was the city of Plano is looking at rubber tire streetcars connecting the redeveloped Collin Creek to downtown 15th street, but that is a city initiative and the mall will have some separate rubber tire circulator buses.

No conversations with DART yet about buslanes/stops/etc too early in the process.

[tamtagon]

Sweet^
It's a no-brainer; I'm not so concerned what sort of vehicle is used, just that the connection is made, Mall-Downtown-Cotton Belt.

[TNWE]

Sweet^
It's a no-brainer; I'm not so concerned what sort of vehicle is used, just that the connection is made, Mall-Downtown-Cotton Belt.

Didn't DART experiment with rubber-tired trolleys connecting suburban locales to rail stations back in the 90s and early 2000s? I know they're a lot cheaper than streetcars, but I worry that bus stigma would set in and this development would just mean another 10,000 cars clogging the Plano Parkway & 75 intersection. I could see it having a fighting chance if 1) the trolleys are free and 2) they aren't on a strict schedule (so basically have enough running that they show up every 5-ish minutes and don't leave people waiting if their train is a couple minutes late)

[The_Overdog]

All the Plano E/W intersections south of Spring Creek are seriously overbuilt for their current traffic counts, so putting an extra 10k cars on Plano Parkway wouldn't be the worst thing. Their N/S ones have uniformly high traffic counts (except for the one adjacent to the mall, Alma), but E/W are pretty low until Spring Creek and points north, and then they are high/very high.

[itsjrd1964]

First look: Plano's Collin Creek mall reimagined as mixed-use project



Centurion American wants to begin construction as early as this summer, after all the last pre-project items are checked off.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... se-project

[exelone31]

Glad to hear this is hopefully moving ahead. I'm curious to see a larger plan for the area, as I thought they were going to try to keep some of the existing mall and incorporate it into the development, but that might be off the table now.

I also wonder how this redevelopment will impact the ring of strip center retail that surrounds the mall on nearly all sides. Most of it is occupied, but I don't know how a theoretically busier area would affect lease rates/etc.

[The_Overdog]

The basic plan for Collin Creek Mall was approved on 4/1. It now must be approved by City Council. There were surprisingly few detractors that submitted comments to P&Z, so this seems like it's going to happen. Apparently 1st step will to build a new JC Penny superstore on the edge of the property - this is apparently still one of the top performing JC Penny stores in DFW/US/whatever and they don't want to lose the location.

Good news, but what is kind of interesting is that several property owners of the surrounding properties (those along 75 plus Big Lots, the endlessly closing furniture store, Conns, Hobby Lobby, etc ) also submitted acceptance letters saying that they would also like to rezone their properties to conform to the Collin Creek plan. I'm guessing in the next 10ish years, those rezoning requests will come in and this entire area is going to look completely different.

[DPatel304]

Good news, but what is kind of interesting is that several property owners of the surrounding properties (those along 75 plus Big Lots, the endlessly closing furniture store, Conns, Hobby Lobby, etc ) also submitted acceptance letters saying that they would also like to rezone their properties to conform to the Collin Creek plan. I'm guessing in the next 10ish years, those rezoning requests will come in and this entire area is going to look completely different.

Yes!! This is very good to hear. Ever since the DNT/121 area really blew up, I was wondering why this part of Plano might see a similar boom. Sounds like it might take a while, but this is a great part of town with easy access to 75 and GWB and also the DART rail, and it helps that we now have this Collin Creek re-development happening and Downtown Plano isn't all that far either.

[itsjrd1964]

Ch.11 weighed in as well, showing the mall and the City Council proceedings and a few schematics. They talked to a resident that spoke at the Council meeting. At the end of the video, the work on the Valley View/Midtown site and the Red Bird site was also mentioned.

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/04/01/pla ... reek-mall/

[tamtagon]

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... creek-mall

Plano approves $1 billion redevelopment plan for Collin Creek Mall

Written by Steve Brown, Real Estate Editor

..."This is the catalyst for what will be one of the premier downtowns in America," LaRosiliere said. "This will start it. Our downtown will be redefined."

Relative to all other new millennial suburban downtown rebirthings, I absolutely agree that Plano will be one of the premier downtowns in America.

[cowboyeagle05]

I will believe it when I see it.

[LongonBigD]

I would really like to see this take off. Perhaps it would help move similar Valley View project forward. Very surprised to see Pitman Creek HOA is supportive. This area of Plano is not known for supporting more apartments historically. I think of them as being more aligned philosophically with Richardson on the topic. Perhaps they have seen the benefits of Legacy West and want in on the action.

I know I heard them say 500 homes in addition to office, mixed-use, apts. and more (a new freestanding JCP is contemplated too). I am having a tough time imagining room for all that.

I find the references to downtown Plano puzzling. Perhaps it is close on a map, but CC mall is not included in my (current) idea of DT Plano, by a long shot. But even the short distance as the crow flies does not account for the 10(?) lane wall that is NCX.