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Las Colinas/North Irving Development

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muncien
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby muncien » 30 May 2018 14:34

^^^^
All great points. Particularly Shake Shack and Hopdoddy. They would fit in perfectly. And, I'm always up for a Snuffers.

There were a couple of servers and a bartender over at Route 61 that were fantastic. They had been there since day one, that place performed well, and here they are SOL. So unfortunate.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Lakegirl
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Lakegirl » 30 May 2018 15:04

Now that a lot of the restaurants have pulled out and there are many storefronts for lease, it would be great to see a coffee shop, a wine bar, a decent hamburger place and a salad place sign on to lease at Waterstreet. I hear the owners really want an upscale Mexican food with lakeside dining. Not sure what they will get where Londoner was going to be but it's a really big space. I don't expect Go Fish Poke to do that well. Not the right crowd here for raw fish. Lots of people are complaining about the high prices at Creamistry already. I'm sure they will do well with the free YOGA Sundays that will go on for a few weeks, but not sure the YOGA place will be viable long term. Like others have said, this is not uptown. The crowd over here around the lake is considerably older on the average and especially so at the most expensive apartments like at Waterstreet.

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TNWE
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TNWE » 30 May 2018 15:35

Waldozer wrote:As long as Drafthouse and Grimaldi's stay open, I really don't care too much about any of the other businesses. The popsicle place is really good, so I'd be disappointed to see them go.


Yeah, the whole Big Beat area struck me as a contrivance, and when there's a concert at the pavilion, the level of "event staff/security" around the area turns me off on the whole Music Factory concept. I was there on a Thursday night to see a movie at the Alamo and had to deal with way too many orange cones and parking attendants (that I wouldn't have to deal with at any other Alamo location).

As muncien mentioned, they should have held off on the parking/cover charges from the start, to give the restaurants a chance to get going until more hotel/residential projects open up nearby. Expecting people to pay for parking at a concert is one thing, but expecting people to pay for parking to dine out in *Las Colinas* is insane.

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R1070
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby R1070 » 30 May 2018 22:26

The paid parking there will be a big issue with this development.


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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 31 May 2018 09:37

The statements from Billy Bob's lawyer make me laugh... They had 700 less parking spaces than what they were promised? I'm sorry, the parking doesn't work that way! It's an open garage where people park wherever they can find a spot. Each restaurant or venue isn't designated given spots in the garage. In another article I heard him claim that the ARK Group gave 500 of their spots to someone else. Just stupid! You don't pull up to the gate and tell the guy where you're going. "I'm going to Gloria's for dinner"- "Sorry sir, the 200 Gloria's parking spots are already taken" - "Oh, I mean I'm going to Big Beat" - "Great, take a right and drive up to the 2nd level where you'll find all the marked spots for Big Beat". The lawyer in more than one article also claimed the Plaza area wasn't as big as what they were told it would be? Ummm, didn't you do your research? Even if the plaza was suppose to be bigger why would they want that? So their concerts could look even less crowded. You could only attract 30 people to come out each night anyways, but yet you wanted a bigger plaza? :) Come on man!

I have a feeling this will get tied up in court for awhile and these venues will most likely sit empty for some time. Hope I'm wrong though!

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muncien
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby muncien » 31 May 2018 09:51

Kelley USA wrote:The statements from Billy Bob's lawyer make me laugh... They had 700 less parking spaces than what they were promised? I'm sorry, the parking doesn't work that way! It's an open garage where people park wherever they can find a spot. Each restaurant or venue isn't designated given spots in the garage. In another article I heard him claim that the ARK Group gave 500 of their spots to someone else. Just stupid! You don't pull up to the gate and tell the guy where you're going. "I'm going to Gloria's for dinner"- "Sorry sir, the 200 Gloria's parking spots are already taken" - "Oh, I mean I'm going to Big Beat" - "Great, take a right and drive up to the 2nd level where you'll find all the marked spots for Big Beat". The lawyer in more than one article also claimed the Plaza area wasn't as big as what they were told it would be? Ummm, didn't you do your research? Even if the plaza was suppose to be bigger why would they want that? So their concerts could look even less crowded. You could only attract 30 people to come out each night anyways, but yet you wanted a bigger plaza? :) Come on man!

I have a feeling this will get tied up in court for awhile and these venues will most likely sit empty for some time. Hope I'm wrong though!


They're just looking for an 'out'... They made a lot of poor business decisions out the gate (too expensive, too much at once, no happy hour initially, cover charge, timing-no hotel business, etc), plus the overall parking fiasco (more for the development as opposed to Big Beat). You only have one chance to make a good first impression, and they failed on that aspect and were unable to recover (although, each visit they were more and more busy).

I don't have any numbers to back this up, but from my observations both Bar Louie and YardHouse appear to be doing well. Not sure about Thirsty Lion as I don't go there much. That was their competition, and even with that, they were out of their league.

I really think two of these spots (JamHouse and Route61) will get replaced as soon as they're legally available. The remaining will likely wait until hotels come online.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Lakegirl
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Lakegirl » 31 May 2018 10:06

The Music Factory folks have already announced that they have new tenants signed to replace the Big Beat restaurant/bars. I have to agree the Billy Bob group just made some bad business decisions. Yes, the concert hall can get people from all over the metro area to come over for certain concerts, but other than that trying to do something like that outdoor stage just wasn't a feasible idea as far as getting enough of a crowd over there for music. I am over at the Music Factory at least a couple of times a week on average and I think the single biggest mistake they made over there is the parking. They may be trying to figure out which venues people are going to that are parking in the garage now. I was over there a couple of days ago and the attendant had a clipboard and asked me where I was going. Several servers in various restaurants/bars over there have told me they have had many, many complaints about the parking. People don't want to mess with parking in a garage just to go eat and they certainly don't want to have to keep up with a separate validation ticket from the restaurant as well as a parking ticket. Very poor planning from day 1.

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TXGunLover
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TXGunLover » 31 May 2018 10:08

If the demand exists, they'll fill them quickly once legally able to do so. If it doesn't, they'll sit.

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foleymi1
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby foleymi1 » 31 May 2018 12:37

At least Torchy Las Colinas is having an opening party next Monday evening: https://www.facebook.com/events/2121899381415714/

And Whiskey Cake Las Colinas opened on Monday: https://www.facebook.com/whiskeycakelascolinas/

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Lakegirl
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Lakegirl » 31 May 2018 16:33

I like the Torchy's at the Highlands in Arlington. It is nice inside and has a good bar area. Surprisingly, the Torchy's in Southlake is a dump inside. I would think since they have spent considerable time remodeling the building that the Las Colinas Torchy's is going into that ours should be pretty good. Whiskey Cake's food leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion.

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jrd1964
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby jrd1964 » 01 Jun 2018 08:11

Lakegirl wrote:Whiskey Cake's food leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion.


I guess they care more about the "whiskey" than the "cake"? ;)

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WilCo
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby WilCo » 04 Jun 2018 13:26

We recently moved away from the area, but saw the news about Big Beat. What a disappointment. I was initially excited about the project but quickly realized it wasn't going to work out the way they intended at least. I did not expect the abrupt closing, though.

I was hoping the shared liquor license and restaurants would counteract the liquor laws in Irving and they would finally have a cool place to go out. It quickly became apparent their missteps were squandering any hopes of that. My biggest question in all this was the judgment of previous administrations and perhaps some still in office to engage Billy Bob for such a large part of the overall Music Factory project. Quick internet research shows how spotty his track record is and this was definitely his most ambitious project to date. There are so many successful restaurant and bar owners in the area that its bizarre to me they could not find a better partner for the independent, non-chain part of the development. I think there was some apprehension there about having anything but a kitschy country-western/southern venue.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 04 Jun 2018 14:27

This whole story is really one for reality TV... If you remember Billy Bob and his sister had been trying to build the Irving Entertainment Center back since 2007. In fact, they were big players along with a few other investors in the Las Colinas Group. Billy Bob was going to run all the restaurants and concessions. There was an eventual lawsuit between the City of Irving and the Las Colinas Group. The City had said that Billy Bob and his partners has squandered millions of taxpayer dollars including paying Billy Bob's chauffer. That's when ARK stepped in and offered to settle the lawsuit for $4 million- $3 million to Las Colinas Group and $1 million to Billy Bob himself. You can find old articles about how divisive things were between Billy and former Mayor Beth Van Duyne. She was hellbent on making sure he had nothing to do with the project. However, judge ruled that the City had no say in whom ARK rented space to. Originally Billy Bob was going to open just 2 concepts with ARK. Then somewhere along the way Billy Bob got tied in with Restaurants Unlimited out of Seattle, which is a stable restaurant company. They owned the former Palomino's at Crescent Court and Henry's Tavern in Plano, as well as, 30 other restaurants across the country. RUI is actually lease guarantor on Big Beat Dallas which seems crazy... But I always thought it was a mistake to lease so many spots to 1 operator! The SAGA continues!

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WilCo
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby WilCo » 04 Jun 2018 14:57

I didn't know all that about the lawsuit. Good for them for fighting it, but sounds like it was too late at that point. Wasn't it Herbert Gears that originally engaged Billy Bob on the project? Surprising how many private businesses with a history of success signed off and like you said guaranteed the loan for this. I know all are hopeful that a new tenant will sign on to take over the space, but I can't help but feel this is still damaging to the overall Music Factory project. I also can't help but wonder if the slow build outs and tenants backing out at Water Street is related to what's going on at Music Factory. From personal observation it seems that several restaurants there are still struggling.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 05 Jun 2018 10:47

I know a few restaurants have pulled out of Water Street but that's probably true for any new development. I actually see quite a bit of development going on at WS. You have Hugo's Invitados, Cork & Pig, Go Fish Poke, Olivella's Pizza, Main Street Bakery and Big Little Market all opening in the next month or 2. That's in addition to The Gents Place, Michael Mousel Design, We Yogis, Flirty Girl Boutique and Homegrown Hounds. There really are only a few spots left to lease. Perhaps some restaurants are concerned about getting lost at the back of the development, maybe the leasing agents have put too high a premium on the spaces on the lake or perhaps the leasing agents are satisfied for now and they're just being super selective for the remaining spots (quality over quantity)?!?

I will say that when I walk by in the evenings I see a number of people at Creamistry getting some ice cream and walking around the development, or sitting over by the lake. I'm not a fan of El Famoso, but on a nice evening the patio seems somewhat full. I think when Olivella's opens it'll be a homerun! They have good pizza and they're patio will be shaded in the evening and right next to all the fountains.

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tamtagon
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby tamtagon » 05 Jun 2018 10:55

Is it too much all at once?

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TXGunLover
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TXGunLover » 05 Jun 2018 14:50

tamtagon wrote:Is it too much all at once?


It's possible that there is not a sufficient population that fits the demographic to support this many places. It may take time, or it may never... the market will decide and the area will be leased in a way that fits the market demand. That could be what they're aiming for, or it could be laundry mats and pawn shops... time will tell.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 05 Jun 2018 16:15

I think the numbers might surprise some people... I've never understood this notion that there's not enough people living in the area to support these places. From a WS Business Summary from 2016 there were 7K people living within 1 mile of the Urban Center, 75K people living within 3 miles and 255K living within 5 miles. In addition, the daytime working population within 5 miles of the Urban Center was 260K. That was back in 2016. Since then we've had 5 new apartment complexes open in the Urban Center alone, we have 3 others under construction, 2 townhouse developments and office leasing in Las Colinas has surged. Just like any other development, people are going to be attracted to places that have good food, good atmosphere and reasonable pricing. YardHouse, Grimaldi's, Thirsty Lion, Gloria's are all doing really well and stay pretty packed regardless of the night!

I think it's just a matter of restaurant operators putting money and effort into opening good concepts. I think Water Street will end up being the place that locals are attracted to because of the vibe, the hassle free parking and the options. I mean we have to remember that Water Street is technically still under construction. They updated their site plan about a week ago and they still show Londoner Pub and also the Gingerman. I feel confident that once completed and once some of the places start to open it'll be successful!

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TXGunLover
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TXGunLover » 05 Jun 2018 16:30

It's not the population but the desires and behaviors of said population.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 06 Jun 2018 09:41

Pretty good and lengthy article in the DMN about The Music Factory and Big Beat Dallas... I do think it's funny how people are getting The Toyota Music Factory and Big Beat confused. I'll see Facebook postings from The Music Factory for concerts, other restaurants etc... and there's always 2 or 3 people that will reply with "I thought you shut down" or "I thought this place closed"...

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/res ... ic-project


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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 06 Jun 2018 12:11

I think we all saw this coming from a mile away... I do know that the City has had several Executive Sessions pertaining to ARK and the $44 million payment. I think the City is seriously trying to get out of that payment. I know it was tied into certain benchmarks that ARK had to achieve in order to get the money, and quite frankly I don't think they met them. Realistically this place is still under construction. They're just now installing windows on all the vacant spaces. As for the Plaza, I never looked at it and thought it was smaller than what had always been pictured in the renderings. I mean Billy Bob should have made that objection a year ago when they signed the lease.

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muncien
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby muncien » 06 Jun 2018 12:21

^^^
And where did this whole conflict about a canopy come from? I didn't see any mention of a canopy until just a few months ago. I get that from a business perspective, yeah... you want one due to the Texas heat on a somewhat enclosed plaza, but to put that in a lawsuit just seems silly.
It seems Billy Bob still has some bad blood from the original IEC plans that shut him our, and when he failed with his consolatory prize (Big Beat), he figured he'd just go after everyone.
My expectation is that the city and Ark make a deal for a much reduced payment, and Billy Bob gets left out in the cold. It may take a while, but it wouldn't surprise me.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 12 Jun 2018 09:41

Just a few small dining notes today...

1. Looks like the Chick-fil-A on N MacArthur near 635 is going to be torn down and rebuilt. I assume it's to build a much bigger restaurant and expand the drive-thru. The permit is for a total teardown, much like Compass Bank did a few doors down.

2. Pei Wei totally remodeled their restaurant in the same area. Looks great inside! I guess that's one advantage of having Pei Wei Corporate in the same city now (test to formats, concepts etc...)

3. Torchy's has been killing it since they opened. I've literally tried to go 3 times and the line was out the door. Place looks great inside!

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muncien
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby muncien » 12 Jun 2018 10:12

^^
Thanks for the info. That Chick-fil-A, as well as the other one in Las Colinas (at Macarthur and Walnut Hill) are absolutely jam packed throughout the week. Curious to see what they do here. Other than the hardly used play area, there really isn't much room to work with. But if that were all that were in play, you would think a simple renovation would suffice.

I noticed a few interesting things the last two time I visited IMF (last week/end)...
1. The gates to the parking garage have been wide open. No attendants, and no need to get a ticket from the machine.
2. The driveway adjacent to the plaza has been closed off with bollards.
3. They began holding concerts at the plaza again (seems to be coordinated by the IMF itself as opposed to BigBeat).

All of this may mean nothing... but to a highly suspicious person such as myself, it could mean more.

First of all... I believe the developer has a requirement to hold so many live performances on so many days of the week/year in order to meet certain benchmarks by the city. So, I am not surprised to see concerts, even if there is almost nobody there to watch them. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation.

More importantly though, the closing off of the driveway along the plaza, and the opening of the garage, seem to counter two critical points of contention Big Beat has with the developer. I'm not one to defend Big Beat, as they made plenty of errors on their own, but the actions by the developer could easily be interpreted as a validation of Big Beat's complaints.

But then again... it may be nothing. :)
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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WilCo
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby WilCo » 12 Jun 2018 10:59

Again, no longer in the area, but I have been told that Grenada Market is shutting down. Honestly I have always been shocked they have stayed open for so long. Never seemed too busy for how big the space is. I am curious if that space gets leased out. There were talks they were going to move to Water Street, but I don't see that happening with the other market that is supposedly opening there.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 12 Jun 2018 11:32

The ARK agreement with the City requires them to hold a certain number of events / concerts for the Pavilion only. There are no stipulations for the plaza itself, although I'm sure the Texas Lottery isn't happy about sponsoring a plaza that doesn't have any events.

The bollards are typically up on concert days only. They do that for safety reasons, so chances are you may have been there on a concert day. Also, they have been doing some protective screens over the digital boards so that may have been up for construction purposes.

As for the parking, you're right on! The last few times I've been by the gates are wide open. No need to get a ticket and jump through the hoops of getting it validated. Maybe ARK finally got the message! I can't actually imagine it was that big of a $$ maker for them on non-concert nights seeing as most people likely got validation.

I think Granada will find it tough sledding with the opening of Nosh & Bottle and the future Big Little Market at Water Street. Granada did look into opening at both the IMF and Water Street. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Italian Café take over the space (assuming they are actually closing) and expand their restaurant. Also I have to imagine the road construction has severely hampered all those places along Las Colinas Blvd...

Finally, not much of a website but I did find something for Hugo's Invitados opening at Water Street. Stay tuned I guess! www.hugosinvitados.com

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jrd1964
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby jrd1964 » 14 Jun 2018 20:54

Billy Bob is suing, and may be evicted. Finger-pointing and accusations are flying, and millions in tax-based reimbursements could be in question. Looks like a "big beat" to me.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/res ... ic-factory

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 15 Jun 2018 09:02

What a mess! I have a few friends that are lawyers and know Billy Bob's lawyer- Larry Friedman. They said that not only is he a very expensive lawyer but that he really likes to stir things up.

I do like that ARK is moving forward in leasing the spaces and vetting current restaurant operators. They say they're going to take their time, but I know they have to be eager to get those spots leased ASAP. Not only does it look bad for the development to have so many empty spots, but they have some very large loans that are in the process of being paid back. Of course, no worthy restaurant operator will take over those spaces until all the lawsuits are dropped or settled. So it might be awhile :/

And kudos to the reporter for the DMN that keeps writing these articles... She's very thorough and very informative in her reporting!

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TXGunLover
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TXGunLover » 15 Jun 2018 09:07

They're not going to be able to lease those spaces anytime soon. It will be the better part of 6 months to 12 months before we see anything replace them.

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muncien
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby muncien » 15 Jun 2018 09:45

I don't think the lawsuit should impact leasing the spaces. Tenant laws are very clear in Texas, and if you aren't paying, you get evicted (and Billy Bob definitely is not paying). Any lawsuits after that are independent. Sure they could sue for damages related to any lost revenue of not having the spaces anymore, but that's not the same as still having rights to those spaces. If they know what's good for them, they better get their stuff out as soon as they can. If indeed there is bad blood, Ark may sell it off themselves.
There are a few spots that I can see going very quickly... and a few others that will likely sit around for a year or so.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Jun 2018 09:47

Well while they are settling their disagreements Texas Live in Arlington will be kicking off their similar operations of live music, patio bars and brand recognized names like Aikman concept going in over there. At least anyone fired from here can apply over there since they just started hiring for their flurry of venues going in at Texas Live.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 15 Jun 2018 12:14

If you think about it, ARK really hasn't signed any new tenants in about a year. Pretty much everyone that's open now or in the process of opening were on the site plan last summer. Are they being picky or are they really over-selling the amount of actual interest? And whatever happened to the Kidd Kraddick Morning Show moving to the Music Factory? Haven't heard anything about it since council approved it.

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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby flyswatter » 20 Jun 2018 12:38

Music Factory is quite chill when there isn't an event going on...Free parking and overall quiet for Happy Hour, but probably not busy enough to be sustainable. Big Beat looked kinda freaky. The gates were all open so you could walk in no problem, and all the places were fully stocked of items and bars had all the booze still behind the counters. The only way you'd realize it was shut down would be all the Notice to Vacate letters on the doors.

On a different note, my friends said they went to the new Ciel Nail Lounge in Water Street. Turns out they offer a full bar and are quite generous with their pours!

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TXGunLover
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TXGunLover » 20 Jun 2018 12:42

Expected traffic to the venues is about 45% below plan for this period of development.

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WilCo
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby WilCo » 22 Jun 2018 18:10

TXGunLover wrote:Expected traffic to the venues is about 45% below plan for this period of development.


I worry that the Texas Live development in Arlington may be the straw that breaks the camel's back on what has been a huge disappointment so far. All indications are that the other Live developments have been a huge success, and it has the advantage of being near the sports stadiums for foot traffic. Make no mistake, they are in competition with each other, and many have raised questions regarding oversaturation with these types of developments in the area.

Lawsuits also flying all over the place with this thing. As a lifelong Irvingite, I can't help but worry that this will one day be like the canals. People walking past it and saying "oh that looks pretty cool, wonder why all this didn't work out..."

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Lakegirl
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Lakegirl » 22 Jun 2018 20:17

I have been to the Ciel Nail Lounge at Waterstreet three times. Nice people working there and yes, they are generous with the booze. I really wanted to love the place since its a walkable place for me but whatever they use for the nails does not stay well and my nails kept coming off. Between that and the fact that it is about 12 dollars more expensive than my old place, I rarely will be going back to Ciel. Would not have minded the extra money for the convenience if their nails were as good as my old place.

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Lakegirl
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Lakegirl » 22 Jun 2018 20:44

Kelley USA wrote:I think the numbers might surprise some people... I've never understood this notion that there's not enough people living in the area to support these places. From a WS Business Summary from 2016 there were 7K people living within 1 mile of the Urban Center, 75K people living within 3 miles and 255K living within 5 miles. In addition, the daytime working population within 5 miles of the Urban Center was 260K. That was back in 2016. Since then we've had 5 new apartment complexes open in the Urban Center alone, we have 3 others under construction, 2 townhouse developments and office leasing in Las Colinas has surged. Just like any other development, people are going to be attracted to places that have good food, good atmosphere and reasonable pricing. YardHouse, Grimaldi's, Thirsty Lion, Gloria's are all doing really well and stay pretty packed regardless of the night!

I think it's just a matter of restaurant operators putting money and effort into opening good concepts. I think Water Street will end up being the place that locals are attracted to because of the vibe, the hassle free parking and the options. I mean we have to remember that Water Street is technically still under construction. They updated their site plan about a week ago and they still show Londoner Pub and also the Gingerman. I feel confident that once completed and once some of the places start to open it'll be successful!


The Londoner has cancelled and I think Main Street Café has as well. They have quit working on Go Fish Poke but not sure why.

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TXGunLover
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TXGunLover » 22 Jun 2018 20:48

It isn't about population... It's about what the population does for entertainment.

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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Warrior2015 » 22 Jun 2018 21:59

Irving seems cursed. Maybe they should stop trying so hard with these concepts and keep it more original. Maybe when the hotels open up next to MF it could help with more customers. I do however think Texas Live! will be a game changer. It looks cooler and I think it will stay packed a good portion of the time. Wish the urban center the best of luck because Plano dallas and all of the other cities are kinda kicking las colinas a** right now sadly.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 25 Jun 2018 09:29

I guess I don't see where all the negativity is coming from?? We have 2 new developments, the Music Factory and Water Street. Is the Music Factory cursed because Billy Bob opened a terrible concept? I was at the Music Factory on Friday and went to Alamo Drafthouse. Theatre was sold out, place was packed, even the bar was busy. After the movie we walked over to Thirsty Lion to grab some drinks about 9:30. The place was hopping! We jumped over to YardHouse about 11:30 to meet up with some more friends. That place was hopping! I went for a run on Sunday evening and ran by here again. I saw people eating and sitting on the patios at all these places. And of course Gloria's is always packed!


As for Water Street, this place is still technically under construction. It's just barely open! Yes, it does look like Main Street and Londoner Pub have backed out. There could be a number of reasons for that. perhaps these are 2 chains that aren't in as good of shape financially as they were when they originally signed on? But as I've said before, we have a number of places in the construction stage. Every single space along the front on O'Connor has been leased. Looks like we have some great concepts in Cork & Pig and Hugo's Invitados that will open in the next few months. Also Olivella's Pizza has made significant progress on their build-out. It's looking great! Shwarma Press is also starting their build-out next to Olivella's. Also, when running by on Sunday I noticed a new TABC sign for a place called Pacific Table back on the water near the fountains. So concepts might be dropping out but others are jumping in. It was nice to see kids playing in the fountains (not the ones in the lake, but the other fountains in front of Creamistry), people walking around eating ice cram, and even a family playing soccer in the park.

We have to give these developments time to open! With any new development you have concepts that sign and drop out. At some of the most popular developments you always have empty spaces. These things take time to lease up, but I don't see the doom and gloom that you guys do. I see lots of activity and more is on the way!

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tamtagon
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby tamtagon » 25 Jun 2018 10:07

Kelley USA wrote:I guess I don't see where all the negativity is coming from??


It's because this Music Factory dealio was contentious and apparently litigious, and even as it comes on-line parts are crumbling. This is going to be picked apart! haha

I think TXGunlover is right to point out those half a million folks living within five? miles want to be entertained close to home, but maybe they're not interested in buying much of what Billy Bob etc is selling. A critical understanding, actually the foundation for any of this is knowing what the greater neighborhood is look for.

It'll sort itself out and be just fine. Las Colinas was imagined as an alternative to the Dallas CBD, and was groundbreaking, revolutionary and very foreshadowing. The future of Las Colinas is brightest if groomed in the future as a complementary extension of the Dallas Business District.

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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby foleymi1 » 25 Jun 2018 16:37

Kelley USA wrote: Also, when running by on Sunday I noticed a new TABC sign for a place called Pacific Table back on the water near the fountains.


Interesting. Looks like there is a Pacific Table in Fort Worth - https://www.yelp.com/biz/pacific-table-fort-worth - could be the same place?

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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TXGunLover » 26 Jun 2018 15:28

Pacific Table looks good...

Irving's nationally unique diversity does however mean that what works in other areas (Southlake, Frisco/Plano) won't necessarily work here. One of the things that makes Irving unique is its highly diverse population, however that doesn't mean that what works in other areas will work in Irving.

Demographics have a huge effect on what entertainment people seek out... Income and race have a huge impact on what people do for fun or to eat. To assume one racial/economic group behaves as another isn't realistic. Indians, African American's, Whites and other races don't always eat the same food, and Irving's diverse makeup impacts that...

Racial Breakdowns of Cities Often Mentioned w/ Areas such as Downtown Las Colinas
Frisco is 62% white, 20.4% Asian
Plano is 52% white, 18% Asian
Southlake is 77% white, 8% Asian
Irving is 45% Hispanic, 21% white, 19 % Asian

Even in areas where income is similar, it's not realistic to expect all racial groups to eat the same food or seek the same forms of entertainment as other racial groups.

Taking a look at the makeup of the population is important rather than just counting heads when it comes to large developments like downtown Las Colinas.

Personally, I don't believe what is successful in other areas will be successful in Las Colinas.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 29 Jun 2018 15:04

Lots of new info to report today....

1. The construction you see going on in front of Whole Foods is not another 24hr ER center. After weeks of digging around, it looks like we gettin ourselves a SHAKE SHACK!!!

2. Also on the current P&Z Agenda is an item for a new office building on 13 acres at the NW corner of Hidden Ridge and 114 (Hidden Ridge Development).

3. Finally, looks like the Terraces of Las Colinas is about to get underway. Permits have been filed for parking lots and landscaping for the retail portion.

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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Warrior2015 » 01 Jul 2018 10:17

Kelley USA wrote:Lots of new info to report today....

1. The construction you see going on in front of Whole Foods is not another 24hr ER center. After weeks of digging around, it looks like we gettin ourselves a SHAKE SHACK!!!

2. Also on the current P&Z Agenda is an item for a new office building on 13 acres at the NW corner of Hidden Ridge and 114 (Hidden Ridge Development).

3. Finally, looks like the Terraces of Las Colinas is about to get underway. Permits have been filed for parking lots and landscaping for the retail portion.

Do you know when the retail & hotel part of the hidden ridge development will start?

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 02 Jul 2018 10:21

^^ Unfortunately I don't... I would assume it would start rather soon though. I know the thought is to have those places available for the office workers to grab lunch, happy hour after work etc... It's tough to find any information about the Hidden Ridge Development to be honest. Most of this is pretty hush hush, but I have to assume that behind the scenes they're negotiating with other corporate relocations, hotel operators, retailers, restaurants, multi-family developers etc... Should know more after the P&Z meeting tonight about the proposed new office component for Hidden Ridge (hoping for a rendering).

And sort of trying to tie in the Shake Shack info to Hidden Ridge, I am a little surprised about the Shake Shack location. Seems like if they would be a bit more patient they'd be a great addition for a place like the Hidden Ridge development or even the Blue Star Land Development at 161 and 114.

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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby foleymi1 » 05 Jul 2018 11:07

Good shoutout to Las Colinas in D Magazine a few days ago: https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/ ... ity-zones/

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 05 Jul 2018 12:37

From the DMN regarding Big Beat... Eviction seems to be final for the most part!

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/res ... enter-site


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