Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

What is a suburb today?

I45Tex
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Joined: 26 Jan 2017 05:52

Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby I45Tex » 14 Sep 2018 11:57

Successfully challenging urban centers for growth in a way where --
the faster we grow, the weaker we become:

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/201 ... -we-become


or a shorter take:

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/201 ... rer-we-get

Tnexster
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Location: Dallas

Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby Tnexster » 01 Jul 2019 16:20

American Suburbs Swell Again as a New Generation Escapes the City

https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-s ... 1561992889

Millennials priced out of popular big cities are flocking to Frisco, Texas, Nolensville, Tenn., Lakewood Ranch, Fla., and Scottdale, Ga.—not exactly household names but among the fastest-growing destinations in the U.S.

“The back-to-the-city trend has reversed,” said William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution, citing last year’s census data.

Millennials, the generation now ages 23 to 38, are no longer as rooted as they were after the economic downturn. Many are belatedly getting married and heading to the suburbs, just as their parents and grandparents did.

What is different from the postwar boom of 1950s and 1960s is that growth is far more selective—limited to suburbs blessed by good weather and good jobs, largely in the Sunbelt, where they are growing more than twice as fast as their neighboring cities, Mr. Frey said.

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The_Overdog
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby The_Overdog » 03 Jul 2019 14:34

Frisco may be a 'suburb' but it's not the same type as in the past either. Their dinky baseball stadium is more "urban" than every other stadium in DFW except the AAC and they permitted more multifamily than single family the past 2 years, and still have tons of undeveloped land.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby joshua.dodd » 26 Jul 2019 21:19

Frisco and Plano have become major cities in my opinion. What they now need is mass transit.

cowboyeagle05
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Location: Dallas

Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 28 Jul 2019 15:29

Shh, they think Toyota will save them there...like when GM bought all the streetcar companies and turned them into GM Buses and then eliminated those as well.

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tamtagon
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby tamtagon » 28 Jul 2019 16:12

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Shh, they think Toyota will save them there...like when GM bought all the streetcar companies and turned them into GM Buses and then eliminated those as well.


Uber is poised to start a whole 'nutha version of this in Dallas...

I45Tex
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Joined: 26 Jan 2017 05:52

Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby I45Tex » 04 Dec 2019 08:51

From a set of new articles on the suburban project nationwide:

https://www.curbed.com/2019/11/6/209503 ... population

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 04 Dec 2019 10:43

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245249/ame ... untry.aspx

31% of people want to live in the 'burbs. 27% want to go rural.

Probably the folks who grew up watching Green Acres.

Big cities? It's up from just 8% in 2001, but still only 12% of people want to live the big city life.

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Cbdallas
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby Cbdallas » 04 Dec 2019 11:48

Depressing from someone who still wants to see urban Dallas become insanely more dense.

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The_Overdog
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby The_Overdog » 05 Dec 2019 09:09

If you take that number to be true, then 156,000 want to live in the urban core of Dallas, which is still more than currently do. The surrounding suburbs are also under utilized for urban desirability. For example, it would be 12,000 people in Richardson (currently close to 3000), 33,000 for Plano (currently about 10k) and 25k for Irving (close to 15,000). Then Ft Worth: does it even have 15k in its urban core?

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Tucy
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby Tucy » 05 Dec 2019 09:30

The_Overdog wrote:If you take that number to be true, then 156,000 want to live in the urban core of Dallas, which is still more than currently do.


You cannot draw that conclusion from this survey. The survey didn't ask anything about a desire to live in an "urban core". It only asked if people desired to live in a
-big city
-small city
-suburb of a big city
-suburb of a small city
-town or
-rural area.

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The_Overdog
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby The_Overdog » 05 Dec 2019 09:55

You cannot draw that conclusion from this survey. The survey didn't ask anything about a desire to live in an "urban core". It only asked if people desired to live in a
-big city
-small city
-suburb of a big city
-suburb of a small city
-town or
-rural area.


I think you can because that is what each implies. Unless you are suggesting that everyone wants to live in either Orlando (one of the largest cities by area) or want to move to a city simply because it's population is larger than some other place, as in 12% of people want to live in Dallas because it's population is larger than Ft Worth. That the distinctions are based on density is implied.

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Tucy
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby Tucy » 05 Dec 2019 10:34

The_Overdog wrote:
You cannot draw that conclusion from this survey. The survey didn't ask anything about a desire to live in an "urban core". It only asked if people desired to live in a
-big city
-small city
-suburb of a big city
-suburb of a small city
-town or
-rural area.


I think you can because that is what each implies. Unless you are suggesting that everyone wants to live in either Orlando (one of the largest cities by area) or want to move to a city simply because it's population is larger than some other place, as in 12% of people want to live in Dallas because it's population is larger than Ft Worth. That the distinctions are based on density is implied.


That is a leap not warranted by the data. But, assuming you are correct, the number desiring to live in the "urban core" would be 600,000 (12% of the Dallas/Plano/Irving metropolitan division population of 5 Million), not just 156,000. (But to be clear, the survey does NOT suggest that to be the case.)

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The_Overdog
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby The_Overdog » 05 Dec 2019 11:03

That is a leap not warranted by the data. But, assuming you are correct, the number desiring to live in the "urban core" would be 600,000 (12% of the Dallas/Plano/Irving metropolitan division population of 5 Million), not just 156,000. (But to be clear, the survey does NOT suggest that to be the case.)


I don't get what you are suggesting. That 600,000 (or 1/4 the current population of Dallas and Ft Worth, since they are the 'big cities', want to live there? Thats....an interesting take.

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Tucy
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby Tucy » 05 Dec 2019 12:29

The_Overdog wrote:
That is a leap not warranted by the data. But, assuming you are correct, the number desiring to live in the "urban core" would be 600,000 (12% of the Dallas/Plano/Irving metropolitan division population of 5 Million), not just 156,000. (But to be clear, the survey does NOT suggest that to be the case.)


I don't get what you are suggesting. That 600,000 (or 1/4 the current population of Dallas and Ft Worth, since they are the 'big cities', want to live there? Thats....an interesting take.


12% of the population wants to live (by your leap of logic) in the urban core. The population of the Dallas-Plano-Irving metropolitan division (since Ft Worth is its own big city, it makes sense to treat the divisions separately) is 5 Million. 12% of 5 million is 600,000.

Again, in reality, the survey tells us nothing about how many people desire to live in the urban core.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 1961
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 05 Dec 2019 14:06

At the end of the day, the first lesson they teach in Statistics class is that surveys or gathered data like this can be swung in any direction depending on a lot of factors including what the lean is of the gathering body/company. Then throw in third-party interpretation by either the public aka us or another organization that believes its data is better founded in facts.

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Brettoj
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Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby Brettoj » 05 Dec 2019 16:53

Another interesting insight on the suburbs from the Economist.

American Poverty is Moving from the Cities to the Suburbs

https://outline.com/PpX6mT

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 1961
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: What is a suburb today?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 06 Dec 2019 10:29

I have not read that article yet but I will say we did discuss this in college in my history of cities class. As cities have seen a resurgence in housing and gentrification the more affordable housing has become the first ring of suburbs. Places like Garland with housing that previously housed the first round of white flight. Places like West Dallas, Cedars, and Oak Cliff are enough to drive populations of people outward. What is funny is these suburbs have trouble adapting to poverty issues.


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