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Paper or Plastic (or not)?

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itsjrd1964
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Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby itsjrd1964 » 23 Aug 2018 12:39

Kroger has announced plans to phase out plastic grocery bags by 2025, starting with their regional QFC store chain in the Pacific Northwest. No word yet on specific timelines/availability closer to TX.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... me-prepare

DPatel304
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby DPatel304 » 23 Aug 2018 13:04

Fine with me. I prefer the free market to initiate these sorts of things, rather than the government stepping in and telling businesses how to run.

Other grocers will soon follow this move.

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TNWE
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby TNWE » 23 Aug 2018 13:10

I'd be happy if they trained their baggers to put more than one item in a bag, tho now that they have self-scanners at my local store, I can put stuff directly into reusable bags in my cart and not have to bother with the checkout line.

I assume they're planning to offer paper instead? I can't imagine they'd expect everyone to always remember to bring reusable bags...

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itsjrd1964
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby itsjrd1964 » 23 Aug 2018 19:10

I didn't hear/see anything about paper, just plastic.

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ebird
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby ebird » 24 Aug 2018 06:19

Yes, they plan on offering paper bags for free like Central Market and Trade Joes currently does.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Aug 2018 08:18

I am also sure the stores will push more heavily into the store bought reusable bags as well. The first step was offering a discount for using a reusable bag next up who knows what incentives they might try for promoting customers to buy their reusable bags and give an incentive for using them.

Tnexster
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby Tnexster » 25 Aug 2018 17:06

DPatel304 wrote:Fine with me. I prefer the free market to initiate these sorts of things, rather than the government stepping in and telling businesses how to run.

Other grocers will soon follow this move.


Grew up with paper bags and never understood the move to plastic. They end up everywhere.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 25 Aug 2018 20:21

^ Because plastic is cheaper. Ironically plastic bags are generally more environmentally friendly than paper. They just get a bad rap because of their one weakness: they degrade slower "in the wild", so they're more visible as liter (paper and plastic both degrade similarly in landfills).

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tamtagon
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby tamtagon » 25 Aug 2018 21:12

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ Because plastic is cheaper. Ironically plastic bags are generally more environmentally friendly than paper.


how, or in what way?

Tnexster
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby Tnexster » 26 Aug 2018 16:38

I personally like paper, I have my own bags too but I always forget to bring them so they don't do much good. Paper bags hold more, plastic bags hold less so you get tons of them. Plastic may be cheaper than paper but encouraging people to bring their own is cheaper than either option and you do see more of that these days, again...if you remember to bring them.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 26 Aug 2018 19:07

tamtagon wrote:how, or in what way?


You can Google https://www.google.com/search?q=are+pap ... y+friendly, but to summarize: paper bags take a LOT more energy to create and transport, and their production involves some nasty chemicals, some of which are released into the environment. The petroleum used to make plastic bags is basically a byproduct of the refining process, so no one is drilling wells just to make plastic bags. In landfills paper and plastic both decompose at a similar rate.

The only place paper has an environmental advantage is when bags are not properly disposed of. In that case paper does degrade quicker.

So the bottom line is that if you are an environmentally conscientious person who properly disposes of, reuses or recycles your bag then you should be using plastic for the smallest environmental impact. But if you're a litterbug then you should consider using paper.

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tamtagon
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby tamtagon » 26 Aug 2018 21:12

^thank you, I did a search like that and saw much of the same thing. I should have already know that. I guess I'm proud of my own personal habit with regard to recycling, generating the least possible trash, consuming locally produced whatever as much as possible.... just didn't even think to learn more about the paper v plastic thing.

The whole deal seems to boil down to personal responsibility. I compost cardboard, paper, whatever... but hardly anyone does stuff like that, and certainly not those who generate the most personal trash.

It's not a question of landfill decomposition, it's a question of people forgetting to give a shit.

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TNWE
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby TNWE » 31 Aug 2018 12:28

tamtagon wrote:^thank you, I did a search like that and saw much of the same thing. I should have already know that. I guess I'm proud of my own personal habit with regard to recycling, generating the least possible trash, consuming locally produced whatever as much as possible.... just didn't even think to learn more about the paper v plastic thing.

The whole deal seems to boil down to personal responsibility. I compost cardboard, paper, whatever... but hardly anyone does stuff like that, and certainly not those who generate the most personal trash.

It's not a question of landfill decomposition, it's a question of people forgetting to give a shit.


That's what amazes me about the straw bans that are making the rounds on the west coast- these cities talk about the harm to marine wildlife as a reason for the ban, but what percent of properly disposed trash winds up in the ocean? Are Seattlites just flinging their empty iced latte cups into Puget Sound?

Real change happens when individuals are incented to be more aware of their consumption and reduce accordingly, not blanket bans on a particular type of bag based on perception. On a given shopping trip, there's a case for all three types of bags depending on what you're buying- reusable insulated bags for frozen foods, paper bags for boxed snacks, chips, etc, and plastic bags for delicate, wet, or leaky things like eggs, produce, and meat. On a typical shopping trip, that might mean I take two reusable bags, plus get one paper and two plastic sacks for the remaining items. Compare that to Kroger's tendency towards "one item per plastic bag" or Trader Joes where they always double up their paper bags (so they don't break or leak) but also double the already higher energy footprint.

Tnexster
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Re: Paper or Plastic (or not)?

Postby Tnexster » 31 Aug 2018 14:45

I'm all for recycling/composting and making wise choices and I am willing to do things I am sure nobody on my block is doing to protect habitat and so on but the ban on plastic straws movement is dumb.


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