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Fair Park

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Fair Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 01 Aug 2018 11:41

Redblock wrote:Back in '94(?) the Cotton Bowl hosted 1 or 2 of the preliminary matches when the US hosted the World Cup. Now Dallas is on the list of 23 cities which could host games for the 2026 World Cup.


They also located the media center for the whole thing in Fair Park.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Fair Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 01 Aug 2018 11:46

tamtagon wrote:...still pissed LaMiller turned The Cowboys away from Fair Park.


If that were only true then that would be the one thing to like about her.

The reality is that Jerry Jones insisted that the county commissioners (not the city) schedule the referendum for the taxpayer funding immediately, knowing they wouldn't/couldn't do that. So he was able to claim he gave Dallas a shot, when he never had any interest at all.

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tamtagon
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Re: Fair Park

Postby tamtagon » 01 Aug 2018 11:59

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
tamtagon wrote:...still pissed LaMiller turned The Cowboys away from Fair Park.


If that were only true then that would be the one thing to like about her.

The reality is that Jerry Jones insisted that the county commissioners (not the city) schedule the referendum for the taxpayer funding immediately, knowing they wouldn't/couldn't do that. So he was able to claim he gave Dallas a shot, when he never had any interest at all.


The politics and scheduling was whacked out, but the county would have done it. LaMiller was leading the No Way coalition.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/jer ... lt-7098718

...Jerry Jones confirmed that Miller basically told him "don't let the door hit you on your way out" when he approached her with the idea of building a $600 million stadium in Fair Park back in 2004.


also:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/arlingt ... r-for-8253

LaMiller was a champion for downtown and helped orchestrate the vitality that's still growing. She put all the focus resources Fair Park needed into the Trinity River Park. Hundreds of millions from the city and/or county for a new Cotton Bowl was never part of the former mayor's plan.

It's a shame.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Fair Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 01 Aug 2018 13:03

Oh please adding Jerry world to fair park would have been catastrophic for South Dallas. That would all but guarenntee the perpetual use of the parking lots that cut the area off from humanity. Not to mention the gates around the complex (People aren't gonna feel "safe" leaving their cars there). Furthermore, the city would have to fork over hundreds of millions to the richest sports franchise in the world for a private stadium.GTFOH.

Look at the promises Jerryworld made to Arlington.. none of them have materialized a decade plus later. There's no revitalization happening there just traffic


Not having the Cowboys is a blessing in disguise for South Dallas. We actually now have management who wants to connect the area to the city and revitalize the area. Not to mention citizens who want to make the park a true gem.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby exelone31 » 01 Aug 2018 16:03

On the sports front, I was looking around Spectra's website, and noticed that they manage the Cal Expo fairgrounds in Sacramento. Under their management (http://www.spectraexperiences.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/California-Exposition-State-Fair_CaseStudy.pdf), they are now the home venue for the Sacramento Republic (a USL team that is often brought up in the conversation of the "next team to jump to Major League Soccer").

I know that FC Dallas is going to be starting a USL 3 team next season, or at least it has been rumored. In all likelihood, they will play up in Frisco, but it'd be cool to bring some of that back to the Cotton Bowl like the old days.

Random note: Isn't it kind of funny that Spectra is owned by Comcast, while Spectrum (cable company) was formerly Time Warner Cable? What a world we live in, huh?

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Re: Fair Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Aug 2018 08:42

Jerry Jones also wanted a completely modern stadium not just in function but in design. Putting it in Fair Park would have not only meant tearing down the Cotton Bowl but the new design would have had to include art deco and historical design context which Jerry Jones could care less about. ANy design would require review from multiple governmental bodies on local, state and federal levels. His stadium footprint would also be quite a bit bigger than the Cotton Bowl and most of the surrounding buildings would have had to be severely modified or removed to make it happen. Of course, to some people, Fair Park, and its historical buildings as they are now are dead weight so to them they wouldn't care about that but it would require a mountain of political will not just local but the federal level to tear down the protected buildings.

All things that could eventually be overcome with money and the city pushing hard for it but it would have slowed the project down immensely and Jerry has no romanticism for the City of Dallas or Fair Park. Jerry Jones like a petulant child wants what he wants when he wants. He has the most profitable team in the league and expects city hall to bow down to him for it. Laura Miller wasn't without faults that's for sure but she also wasn't willing to bankrupt the city in more than one way just to beg to Jerry Jones and the sacred cow of the Dallas Cowboys and I love her for it.

Congrats to Spectra and the Fair Park foundation that will be overseeing all changes they will be made to Fair Park. Some will probably upset me but to do what we were doing under the cities bad management was not working. I for once like the fact that the city has required the first project to be completed would be a neighborhood park element. The Fair Park neighborhood deserves that land to be accessible and to increase their quality of life. Instead, it continues to hold all the property around it in constant depression.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby tamtagon » 02 Aug 2018 09:04

I think the scale is about right, pasting the stadium built in Arlington into Fair Park...
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Re: Fair Park

Postby Tnexster » 02 Aug 2018 10:42

^Wow that is an amazing comparison but imagine that plus the sea of parking that would have been required and what that foot print would have looked like.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby casperitl » 02 Aug 2018 10:58

tamtagon wrote:I think the scale is about right, pasting the stadium built in Arlington into Fair Park...


The plan would have been to demolish the Cotton Bowl and shift the new stadium a little further to the east by demolishing the Expo Center(blue rodeo arena) and also building into areas where the Top O' Texas Tower stands. It would have fit size wise. Starplex would have gone away.

There would have been major reconstruction of Grand and Fitzhugh as ingress/egress from I-30. It would have worked and it would have preserved Fair Park's Centennial buildings.

The real damage done to Fair Park was when the Morton Meyerson, Perot Museum and the arts district pulled up stakes and moved out of Fair Park. It will take Fair Park generations to recover from that.

As a native Dallasite I am happy to see Spectra as the chosen vendor. I like going to events at Fair Park outside of the State Fair.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Aug 2018 12:17

Some of those plans you speak of to make room for a stadium work in Fair Park were pipe dreams as much as a new stadium would be in general. They were concept renderings without any real groundwork done. They certainly were pretty pictures that looked good on TV though. You try putting an elephant in a tea shop without breaking a few dishes.

I agree though when the 1% in Dallas decided to move all of the Arts and Museums to the Arts District that was the bigger doom to Fair Park more than anything. Institutions like that would provide a lot more valuable customer base that doesn't overload parking lots causing massive parking garages or lots etc. Fair Park was the original Arts District after all and the rate of daily visitors and smaller events would have provided a nice steady stream of visitors.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby DPatel304 » 02 Nov 2018 15:28

Decision is made: Pride festival is moving to Fair Park
https://www.dallasvoice.com/decision-is ... Colc3vXGII

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Re: Fair Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 08 Nov 2018 12:06

DPatel304 wrote:Decision is made: Pride festival is moving to Fair Park
https://www.dallasvoice.com/decision-is ... Colc3vXGII


I've always wanted to see a June Pride festival return to Fair Park, since that was the original home of Razzle Dazzle starting in 1979. Totally understand why it's a controversial decision, however, but I hope everyone gives it a chance.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby DPatel304 » 08 Nov 2018 12:47

I feel like putting it in Fair Park makes it feel more like an inclusive 'DFW-wide' type of festival. That definitely gives DFW a more positive image that we, as a metroplex, are celebrating pride with such a big event. At least that's how I perceive it.

I do like that this will be able to house more people, so I hope this does help it grow into an even bigger event.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 12 Nov 2018 21:12

Personally, I am someone who lives on the street so there is a list of positives and negatives here but let's straighten out the facts and please feel free to correct me if I get something wrong.

Keep in mind they have only committed to moving the PRIDE FESTIVAL out of the gaybourhood well it was already really. The festival has been held down the street for a while now in Reverchron Park and Arlington Park depending on what year we are talking about and no one I know goes to that part. They wouldn't be trying to move it to a bigger park if absolutely no one goes to the festival but just none of my immediate circle attends the festival part so seeing them move it isn't a big deal I guess.

The parade they haven't decided what to do yet. They want to do something that puts pride front and center but the problem is Main Street in Downtown is not the center of DFW or even Dallas life for that matter. Can you put a pride parade down Central Expressway lol. Where do you parade drag queens and boys in short shorts and cowboy hats where they will be as welcomed as big name sponsors who wear more modest rainbow clothing like Amercian Airlines and Bank of America?

They want the parade to get bigger because honestly right now its too long. It goes for hours and by the time the last sponsor goes by everyone I know has already been drunk since Friday, Saturday and now Sunday so they've gone home. The biggest party is Saturday night in the bars the night before and Sunday midday right before and during the beginning of the parade.

McKinney Ave: Uptown? Elm Street: Deep Ellum? Riverfront Blvd from Oak Lawn to Continental? Greenville Blvd? Good Latimer from Uptown to Deep Ellum? Main Street: Downtown CBD.

Most likely I still won't go to the Pride Festival in Fair Park because I still haven't seen what's the use in going. I work as a bartender the Saturday night before at the gay bars. Where ever the parade is moved I hope to go but I hope it's a quick scooter ride to get there.

If they keep the parade inside Fair Park maybe but I guess it will just become The Great Gay Fair of Texas! If so can we please borrow big tex and put him in booty shorts, a boa and some sort of feathered headpiece.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 13 Nov 2018 10:18

One of my favorite stories from the 1936 Centennial Exposition is how gay men would gather under the Tenor sculpture in the Esplanade to cruise and meet other men. There's a rumor that R.L. Thornton was so distraught by this that he had the statues removed for this reason (one of many theories about the statues' initial disappearance).

Image
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tamtagon
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Re: Fair Park

Postby tamtagon » 13 Nov 2018 11:31

^haha

With the festival at Fair Park, the Dallas Pride festival will probably attract more visitors than any other in the South. If visibility is one of the goals, this move is the right action regardless of where the parade happens. After a couple years, I would imagine the Cotton Bowl will be used for concerts.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby maconahey » 20 Dec 2018 19:05

Fair Park readies for takeover and makeover, so we need to talk about where to plant that park
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... plant-park

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Re: Fair Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 20 Dec 2018 21:08

I would be happy with a linear park on the Cullum side as long as it had all the needed functions for a neighborhood geared park. I would also still support the rebuilding of RB Cullum to a more condensed street format. The current street is massively wide with lots of land wasted on giant medians which do more to create a moat than connect anything which to be honest is partially the intent of its design. The city could follow something similar to the old Comprehensive Fair Park plan that suggested condensing the Blvd into a smaller footprint, the same number of lanes but with useable crosswalks and sidewalks with additional land to go towards the park. In summary, make it an Urban Blvd rather than a suburban arterial as it is now.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 03 Jun 2019 09:47

So now that Fair Park hosted the Alan Ross Texas Freedom Parade, I'd like to see the numbers. All I have is a quote from NBC5 that said the parade itself was 50% bigger, which I believe based on what looked like a lot more corporate floats. It was great to see the parade televised but I never caught a wide shot to gauge crowd size.

From what I'm hearing, the Saturday festival was boring and the parade was a big success. Pride flags look really good against the Texas Star and the Esplanade, I hope it returns next year with a better Saturday festival with evening hours with maybe a fireworks show and the Texas Star open.

With a few tweaks, Dallas Pride could become the late-spring expo that Fair Park has desperately needed.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby tamtagon » 03 Jun 2019 13:56

Maybe start with Cinco de Mayo and finish with Pride Weekend?

Fair Park needs to have some parkland, for sure, but first and foremost the facilities are for exhibition and should be put to that use as much a possible.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby vman » 04 Jun 2019 08:49

lakewoodhobo wrote:So now that Fair Park hosted the Alan Ross Texas Freedom Parade, I'd like to see the numbers. All I have is a quote from NBC5 that said the parade itself was 50% bigger, which I believe based on what looked like a lot more corporate floats. It was great to see the parade televised but I never caught a wide shot to gauge crowd size.

From what I'm hearing, the Saturday festival was boring and the parade was a big success. Pride flags look really good against the Texas Star and the Esplanade, I hope it returns next year with a better Saturday festival with evening hours with maybe a fireworks show and the Texas Star open.

With a few tweaks, Dallas Pride could become the late-spring expo that Fair Park has desperately needed.


I tagged along with my cousin and his partner Sunday to the Pride Parade at Fair Park. Although I haven't been to the parade on Cedarsprings in years, I thought Fair Park was a much better venue. Tons of spaces to escape the heat, you could definitely see the parade better and people were spread out everywhere and it gave the parade more of a festival vibe. Plus, much easier to get in and out. If it's at Fair Park again, I will definitely go. I really enjoyed it.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby tamtagon » 04 Jun 2019 12:38

If it stays at Fair Park, I imagine The Cotton Bowl, The Band Shell and the Music Hall would be packed full for the performers eager to play to the LGBT crowd.

It's so silly that many of the institutions and/or organizations in Dallas sell themselves short as far as playing on a domestic stage rather than regional.... Cedar Springs is simply too small for the crowd North Texas would supply, and I am certain LGBT frequent travelers would jump at the chance to spend a Pride Weekend in Dallas and go to a stadium show (whoever's stadium crowd popular now-a-days).

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Re: Fair Park

Postby Tnexster » 04 Jun 2019 16:57

tamtagon wrote:If it stays at Fair Park, I imagine The Cotton Bowl, The Band Shell and the Music Hall would be packed full for the performers eager to play to the LGBT crowd.

It's so silly that many of the institutions and/or organizations in Dallas sell themselves short as far as playing on a domestic stage rather than regional.... Cedar Springs is simply too small for the crowd North Texas would supply, and I am certain LGBT frequent travelers would jump at the chance to spend a Pride Weekend in Dallas and go to a stadium show (whoever's stadium crowd popular now-a-days).


If Cedar Springs is too small for Pride, what does that say about the Halloween block party in October? How many people attend that event?

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Re: Fair Park

Postby Cbdallas » 05 Jun 2019 14:14

Fair Park would be a great venue for an even bigger Halloween party and event with some named performers than what the street and neighborhood can accommodate. We live in that hood and quit going years ago due to the overcrowding and the fencing in of the event as you get stuck on one side and cannot cross to other side very easily. With the small streets and more and more residential moving in these type of events are outgrowing the hood. In the end it represents progress that our city has grown and the LGBTQ community has grown that we have the opportunity to expand beyond our original outpost. Let it get bigger better and attract a national following.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby jecha » 06 Jun 2019 12:06

The Halloween block party is VERY crowded to the point of not being able to move at times. The street is open to that event unlike the parade which requires the street to be closed and the crowds to be pushed onto the sidewalk space.
I attended Pride this past weekend at Fair Park and thought it was a good move. It had a much more festival type feeling and plenty of space. For the first year there, I felt Dallas Pride did a great job.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby Matt777 » 06 Jun 2019 13:49

Sure, why not close down all the gay bars while we're at it since we are already taking everything out of Oak Lawn /Sarcasm.

If your number one goal for Pride or Block Party is lots of parking, no crowds, public bathrooms everywhere, then make a separate event somewhere else. There are some in the community, and outside of it, who liked Pride at Fair Park but I can tell you that most of the community and businesses are pissed.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 07 Jun 2019 10:44

Pride and Halloween are two very different events in terms of their audience & purpose. There are some "purists" who are right to think Pride should be an adult-only event celebrating sexuality and defiance of heteronormativity, while others (maybe a growing majority) think that with increased acceptance comes the responsibility to host an event showcasing corporate sponsors and appropriate for families, including lgbt families with kids. Having Pride at Fair Park this year didn't keep people from going to the bars wearing close to nothing, and that might be the tradition that sticks if Fair Park becomes the permanent host. Side note: The bars were super crowded and made plenty of money that day, and we didn't have to dump 800 tons of garbage in our landfills. I doubt there were any arrests for public intoxication.

On the other hand, Halloween should never be one of those citywide, one-size-fits-all events. Back when I went to the Cedar Springs block party, I hated seeing moms pushing strollers through a crowd that's meant to be for adults getting shit-face drunk. Take the kids to Swiss Ave, or start a new tradition at Fair Park like "Haunted Esplanade" similar to what Disney hosts on Halloween. It really is a shame that the State Fair has complete control of Fair Park for several weeks after the fair, but maybe they could cede control of the Esplanade for something like this.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 13 Aug 2019 11:37

Tonight is the first presentation by Fair Park First to the public, where we'll get an idea of what their master plan looks like. I suppose we won't get any details until tomorrow morning unless anyone from here is attending and wants to report back.

Fair Park neighbors, as well as residents throughout Dallas, are invited to attend the inaugural Fair Park First community conversation!

The first in a series of public meetings, this event is designed to engage the public in the development and programming of the campus’ master plan and neighborhood park plan.

Free parking located just inside Gate 3 at Parry Ave. and Washington St., plus direct DART access from the Fair Park station.

Looking forward to seeing you there!



Fair Park First Community Conversation
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/fair-park- ... 6234223345

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Re: Fair Park

Postby DPatel304 » 13 Aug 2019 13:25

Thanks for the update! I'm keeping expectations low, as I really have no idea what to expect, but I do hope that they really take advantage of what a wonderful asset Fair Park is to the city.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby DPatel304 » 17 Aug 2019 11:35

According to a release, Fair Park First, the nonprofit acting as the private professional manager of Fair Park, is working on revitalizing the 277-acre campus. To that end, it is seeking tenants for three vacant spaces, and is inviting local organizations to submit proposals.

The following spaces are up for grabs:
Women's Building - 68,175 square feet
Science Place 1 (Building, Imax Theater, Exhibition Hall) - 155, 980 square feet
Museum of Natural History - 31,950 square feet
Proposals will be considered for uses such as recreational, civic, cultural, educational, entertainment, arts, retail, food and beverage, and other uses that will attract visitors to the park.

http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city- ... k-tenants/

Not really a whole lot of information here, but I guess they are still in the early stages.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 22 Aug 2019 14:00

^Yeah that "reveal" was a dud, but I'm glad they're at least formalizing the process. Wilonsky's version of the story has a little more information:

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... -landmarks

Already there has been interest, Luallen said, from educational organizations. That certainly sounds familiar: In 2017, the Park Board was briefed on a plan that would have turned over the Women's Building to El Centro College's Food and Hospitality Services Institute. He said, too, that museums have raised their hands — including, no surprise, a few documenting the history of Texas music.

"We've likewise been approached by recreational facilities, what I would call entertainment experiences and immersive art installations," said Luallen. "But, really, the purpose is to create a formalized, direct conversation to get everyone on equal footing."


I wonder if by "entertainment experiences and immersive art installations" he's referring to escape rooms and places like Sweet Tooth Hotel.

I'm not opposed to any of that if it brings the crowds, but I'd really like to see a full-production brewery, winery or distillery (w/ tap room or bar and to-go sales) open in one of these places.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby exelone31 » 22 Aug 2019 14:56

lakewoodhobo wrote:I'm not opposed to any of that if it brings the crowds, but I'd really like to see a full-production brewery, winery or distillery (w/ tap room or bar and to-go sales) open in one of these places.



If Pegasus City weren't already opening in a near-ideal location, I would say they would be a prime candidate to have operations inside of Fair Park. With their Art Deco branding (they've even got a Woofus beer, I believe), it would be perfect.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 22 Aug 2019 15:16

exelone31 wrote:
lakewoodhobo wrote:I'm not opposed to any of that if it brings the crowds, but I'd really like to see a full-production brewery, winery or distillery (w/ tap room or bar and to-go sales) open in one of these places.



If Pegasus City weren't already opening in a near-ideal location, I would say they would be a prime candidate to have operations inside of Fair Park. With their Art Deco branding (they've even got a Woofus beer, I believe), it would be perfect.


So true. They also have a Great Hall Hefeweizen:

Great+Hall+Hefe+Beer+Poster.png


Maybe the ship has sailed for beer, but cider, wine and whiskey are fair game.
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Re: Fair Park

Postby tamtagon » 08 Sep 2019 09:58

Hopefully the tenant search for the three biggest empty Fair Park venues (the Women's Building, Science Place 1 (which has the IMAX theater) and the Museum of Natural History) will not take too long; hopefully the process will be selecting the best option from many proposals rather than three dangling carrots trying to attract a willing taker.... nevertheless, turning this park campus into a year-round destination begins with the empty buildings and finishes with appropriate renovation to the Cotton Bowl.

This opinion piece about the Arlington Stadiums is a relevant guide to the future of the Cotton Bowl and managed gentrification of train station adjacent real estate:

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... aying-off/

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Re: Fair Park

Postby tamtagon » 08 Sep 2019 10:49

tamtagon wrote:... nevertheless, turning this park campus into a year-round destination begins with the empty buildings and finishes with appropriate renovation to the Cotton Bowl.


Concerts and Fútbol and College Football are still my pick for the Cotton Bowl. Start with Liga MX exhibition games for Cinco de Mayo, and turn it into the northern division with El Paso, San Antonio, Austin, Houston, and Dallas. Football and Baseball should stay in Arlington, the billion dollar community investment is finally starting to pay off. Cotton Bowl should pick up at least two more at-capacity College Football games during the State Fair and guide ESPN to locate an at-capacity College Football game during the playoffs, but otherwise the Cotton Bowl should be the venue for another professional sport league expansion.

UT-Dallas should expand with a technology presence on the park campus, and use that as the foundation for eSports events Fair Park.

Finally getting established any sort of music museum & library & UNT facility inside Fair Park is a mandatory initiative for me. The array of live performance venues at Fair Park may be unrivaled in the country. I'm not sure what the hold-up is, but the place is ideal for three day music festivals. Offer the 'winners' of SXSW a spot in the April music festival whatever, but the only thing keeping this place from rocking is the lack of a plan.

The future of Fair Park events should be tied to emerging markets. Do not necessarily usurp activity from other parts of the region, rather give people from the region and country a new reason to visit.

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Re: Fair Park

Postby exelone31 » 09 Sep 2019 11:49

Haven't they held the JMBLYA music festival at Fair Park the last year or two? I'm not sure how the turnout has been or the layout they used.


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