Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

The Cost of City Living

Tnexster
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The Cost of City Living

Postby Tnexster » 07 Mar 2017 14:59

Want to skip the suburbs for the walkable, urban life? In Dallas, it'll cost you

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/busi ... h-itllcost

The joint study from Zillow and Care.com shows that urban Dallas-Fort Worth residents shell out an extra $14,128 per year — or $1,177 per month — for a mortgage and child care.

That puts D-FW in the third spot for urban living premiums, just behind Chicago, where the study says you'll pay $18,472 more a year not to live in the suburbs.

DPatel304
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Mar 2017 15:38

From the article:
The joint study from Zillow and Care.com shows that urban Dallas-Fort Worth residents shell out an extra $14,128 per year — or $1,177 per month — for a mortgage and child care.


Apparently it doesn't factor in transportation costs, and I doubt they consider the fact that you'll save a lot on utilities assuming you have a smaller place in the city.

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The_Overdog
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby The_Overdog » 07 Mar 2017 15:46

Even if it's not 100% correct due to transport costs or whatever, it still means there is a serious premium that people attach to urban living in DFW which means that demand is still not being met, which means more urban homes should be in the pipeline.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 07 Mar 2017 19:50

The_Overdog wrote:Even if it's not 100% correct due to transport costs or whatever, it still means there is a serious premium that people attach to urban living in DFW which means that demand is still not being met, which means more urban homes should be in the pipeline.


My thought exactly. Dallas needs more townhomes. I think Row homes would be ever so popular if they were abundant.

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ebird
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby ebird » 07 Mar 2017 20:46

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:[quote="The_Overdog"
My thought exactly. Dallas needs more townhomes. I think Row homes would be ever so popular if they were abundant.[/quote]



I always thought that the farmers market area and the cedars neighborhood would be excellent locations for row homes with their large amount of vacant or underutilized land.

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tamtagon
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby tamtagon » 22 Jun 2017 09:48

I was still (kind-of) a student in Denton doing very well at a promising job when one of the corporate big wigs visited. Our working relationship was a couple years old, had matured to the point of mild personal awareness. I was riveted by one comment on the subject of traffic and commuting and entertainment choices... something to the effect, "You either live close to where you work or close to where you hang out." Within months, me and my two roommates moved to a place between Lower Greenville and Deep Ellum and adjusted our work schedules to four-ish 10-ish hour days and commuted to Denton for work.

Living in Dallas was more expensive, but somehow the money worked out and life was much better with the entertainment right around the corner --- walking distance if need be. Clearly happy with the living situation and work, corporate jobs were such a simply and natural transition -- the commute was shorter and the pay was better.

At one point, the idea of a office desk job was so foreign, but became so natural with lifestyle upgrades. It's all relative, the cost of city living. Those choosing the affordability and space suburb/exurb live may always be shocked at the dollar amount of city living, just as those choosing the activity and availability in the city may always be shocked at the boredom of country living.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby lakewoodhobo » 11 Sep 2017 10:47

I really don't know where to put this but I guess it's appropriate here because it relates to value-engineered apartments close to the city center and the price people pay to live close to the city.

Yesterday I toured the Loft + Row apartments (2110 N Peak St, just east of Cityplace) with a friend who is signing a lease there. This is a building that opened early last year and has decent curb appeal. Now, I've lived in brand-new apartments before, like the ICON at Ross which went for $1050/mo for a 1BR in 2012, and realize that they're pretty cheaply done and have a short lifespan, but what I saw here was pretty shocking.

The finish-out was laughable. Some things that stood out were the really thin wood-laminate flooring, track lighting with CFL bulbs and fluorescent under-cabinet lighting. It wasn't only cheap, but in just over a year it looked old and worn. They are charging him just under $1600/mo for this loft-style 1BR apartment, and I'm pretty sure that was prorated with a month of free rent. I saw an almost identical floor plan at the Continental Building downtown, but that building has much better amenities.

I really think that if people are willing to pay these prices for such low quality, renter expectations are just as flawed as the housing supply.

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Matt777
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby Matt777 » 11 Sep 2017 13:08

lakewoodhobo wrote:I really don't know where to put this but I guess it's appropriate here because it relates to value-engineered apartments close to the city center and the price people pay to live close to the city.

Yesterday I toured the Loft + Row apartments (2110 N Peak St, just east of Cityplace) with a friend who is signing a lease there. This is a building that opened early last year and has decent curb appeal. Now, I've lived in brand-new apartments before, like the ICON at Ross which went for $1050/mo for a 1BR in 2012, and realize that they're pretty cheaply done and have a short lifespan, but what I saw here was pretty shocking.

The finish-out was laughable. Some things that stood out were the really thin wood-laminate flooring, track lighting with CFL bulbs and fluorescent under-cabinet lighting. It wasn't only cheap, but in just over a year it looked old and worn. They are charging him just under $1600/mo for this loft-style 1BR apartment, and I'm pretty sure that was prorated with a month of free rent. I saw an almost identical floor plan at the Continental Building downtown, but that building has much better amenities.

I really think that if people are willing to pay these prices for such low quality, renter expectations are just as flawed as the housing supply.


According to their website, they have 800 sqft 1br apartments (with a den/study!) for $1396 before 1 month free, so prorated that comes out to about $1280/month for 800 square feet of a new apartment with nice amenities. That's pretty good for a new apartment in a good urban location in a major US city. I agree that their interior material choices look pretty run of the mill, but are pleasant. Loft + Row at least deserves some kudos for their exterior design, which is one of the better looking ones among the large apartment complexes going up.

I think some of the Uptown apartments that look like this and cost $1600+ for a studio deserve more scrutiny, but you know that they say..... location, location, location.

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The_Overdog
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby The_Overdog » 11 Sep 2017 17:20

According to their website, they have 800 sqft 1br apartments (with a den/study!) for $1396 before 1 month free, so prorated that comes out to about $1280/month for 800 square feet of a new apartment with nice amenities. That's pretty good for a new apartment in a good urban location in a major US city


Yeah. My apartment in 2000 when I first moved was brand new and the back of the cabinets (laminate countertops with particleboard cabinets) facing the living room was unpainted with berber carpet instead of hardwood, real or fake. Also under cabinet lighting? No way! Also it wasn't in the DFW core and way too many friends got DWIs driving to the core. If cheap flooring is what it takes to keep these places affordable and built in better locations then that's a tradeoff but not a terrible one in every way.

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PonyUp13
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby PonyUp13 » 11 Sep 2017 19:52

That seems high to be on that side of the highway. My girlfriends unit in Wrst Village is about 850 and 1400/mo and had nice finish outs. The problem is that Guy is on a summer-to-summer lease which is always a couple hundred more a month than an off peak to off peak.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby lakewoodhobo » 13 Sep 2017 10:38

Matt777 wrote:According to their website, they have 800 sqft 1br apartments (with a den/study!) for $1396 before 1 month free, so prorated that comes out to about $1280/month for 800 square feet of a new apartment with nice amenities. That's pretty good for a new apartment in a good urban location in a major US city. I agree that their interior material choices look pretty run of the mill, but are pleasant. Loft + Row at least deserves some kudos for their exterior design, which is one of the better looking ones among the large apartment complexes going up.

I think some of the Uptown apartments that look like this and cost $1600+ for a studio deserve more scrutiny, but you know that they say..... location, location, location.


I agree that it has a better exterior than a lot of others, but the building facing the street is just hiding the uglier ones just behind it. I went back and realized that he's paying $1517/mo for 856sf (it includes the "den" which is like an open half-room for a desk), possibly paying extra for covered parking, valet trash, etc. Another thing worth noting: these are 3-level buildings with no elevators, so you'd access your apartment on the third floor through a stairwell similar to the old garden style apartments.

This is considered a deal because it's east of 75.

Tnexster
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby Tnexster » 23 May 2018 21:41

Does density promote affordability? Economists say yes, Minneapolis residents are skeptical

http://www.startribune.com/does-density ... 483166061/

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The_Overdog
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Re: The Cost of City Living

Postby The_Overdog » 09 Aug 2018 16:14

https://newworldeconomics.com/how-much-should-parking-cost/
Not sure if this is 100% (or even 90%) accurate, but it's just a discussion point concerning parking lot costs in TX.

The Fort Worth garage, with a big 1,013 spaces, cost $23.336m, which works out to $23,036 per space — not a lot more than our $16,250 per space construction costs, implying that land is relatively cheap in Fort Worth, as one would expect.


Fort Worth generated $1,502,000 in revenue, or $1,482 per space per year. The gross revenue/property value ratio was 6.4%.

If we take (rather arbitrarily) the Fort Worth revenue/property value ratio of 6.4% and assume 92% occupancy, the asking annual rent on this would be about 7.0% of that, which is $4,550 or $379 per month

We can also see that if market rents for parking exceeded $379/month, then developers would be making more money from building housing for cars than building housing for people


This is of course per spot, but $379 a day only amounts to $12 a day per spot, or less than $20 per workday.


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