Homelessness

[dukemeredith]

I wanted to start a thread in this forum about the homelessness dilemma.

Last night, I saw the attached image on Facebook, and many commenters were heralding the great job of the DPD for enforcing the panhandling laws. Many of those same commenters also referred to the proliferation of "aggressive" panhandling in downtown.

I have only once been "aggressively" panhandled -- when a man in Victory Park refused to take my offer of a $10 Subway gift card and insisted I go to the ATM and withdraw $10 cash instead. I was outraged, and politely let that man know how I felt.

But this photo struck me with a mix of emotion. I have been non-aggressively panhandled by this man, and he has stared menacingly when I say "no." So when I initially saw the photo, I thought, "good riddance." But the longer I stared, the less positive I felt.

I have thought through and read the history of vagrancy laws and how they were aimed at deterring and punishing otherwise able-bodied individuals from being unproductive members of society. It was a punishment of laziness and, in my mind, a punishment for not being profitable to the government, since they couldn't tax you.

But I don't get the sense that most of the homeless / panhandling folks downtown are "otherwise able-bodied" or merely "lazy." Perhaps some are, but most need help: whether it be physical shelter, drug treatment, mental health treatment, etc. Which, of course, is all very costly. So I struggle to find solutions to address this dilemma.

So-called "community activists" or "stakeholders" (particularly on Facebook) seemingly offer mere lip service. And City Hall only creates commission after commission. The status quo isn't working -- what, truly, can we do to make substantive progress?

My only answer to this question is that homelessness can be dramatically improved with the investment of a lot of money -- money that we don't have (or don't want to spend). According to this report(http://www.endhomelessness.org/page/-/files/2016%20State%20Of%20Homelessness.pdf), there are over 500,000 homeless people in the US. And over 83,000 are "chronically homeless." These 83,000 are the most dire cases that we see.

So suppose we aimed to help the most helpless -- those 83,000. And suppose (purely unscientific) that the yearly cost of living averages around $30,000 per year. (I get this number from the average cost to house an inmate). And if these individuals need special help, lets double it (just to be conservative).

So these 83,000 people would need $60,000 per year to get "better," which, of course, could be anything from institutionalization (if truly mentally unstable), or rehabilitating these people's lives over a term of years.

$60,000 x 83,000 = ~$5,000,000,000. Five billion dollars per year.

And the creation of a governmental agency to oversee this spending would surely cost billions more.

I'd love to hear other thoughts.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Interesting thoughts. If you're talking about subsidizing this at the national level I could see people getting outraged.

The country can't even agree to partially subsidize health care. With that said, I'm more interested in what NTX, as region, does to address this.

I've heard stories where other cities come and "dump" their homeless in DTD , simply because they don't have any services..Which is wrong on so many levels.


But my thought is that a regional level it may be doable.


Whatever happened to the old National Guard Encampment in Grand Prairie that was tossed around as a regional homeless shelter? That's a start.

[tamtagon]

In a nut shell, a couple decades ago, a movement swept across Federal and State Govts to scale back the scope of caring for people who could not or struggled to take care of themselves. The movement called for religious organizations to perform the tasks as govts stopped. The govts dramatically scaled back services but the religious organizations did not, for the most part, pick up the slack.

You might think homelessness would not be a problem in the Bible Belt, but you would be wrong.

---I have much less rant-y, more detailed thoughts on this subject, but I'm short on time and chock full of frustration, but come on! look at how many churches are in the Central Business District. There should not be such a large homeless population within such a concentration of Christianity.

[dfwcre8tive]

In Seattle there is now a proposed property tax to help address the homelessness issue.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-new ... education/

The mayor acknowledged that while many are benefiting from a booming local economy, thousands are sleeping on the streets in a dystopian “Other Seattle.”

He said he wants to double the city’s spending on homelessness with a five-year, $275 million property-tax levy.

Murray has asked billionaire tech entrepreneur Nick Hanauer and Daniel Malone, executive director of the Downtown Emergency Service Center, to lead an advisory group tasked with hammering out the details, he said.

The mayor said he hopes the City Council will put the measure on the August ballot.

“This would allow us to invest in mental-health treatment, in addiction treatment and in getting more people into housing and off the streets,” he said, adding, “I believe the residents of Seattle are ready to support such a measure.”

Murray is challenging the city’s business community to come up with an additional $25 million over five years, he said.

On Wednesday, the mayor will activate the Emergency Operations Center to help people without homes. The center is traditionally activated only during severe storms, major city events and natural disasters.

The move comes more than a year after Murray first proclaimed Seattle to be in a homelessness state of emergency.

How much does the City of Dallas currently contribute to addressing the issue?

Seattle is also opening a new type of shelter based on an example in San Francisco.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-new ... -district/

Seattle’s facility will be modeled on the Navigation Center that San Francisco officials opened in 2015, with the goal of providing people with wraparound services and moving them quickly into permanent housing.

Like a dormitory, the Mission District center has showers, restrooms, laundry machines, lockers and on-demand meals.

Guests receive customized case-management, mental- and behavioral-health counseling and connections to benefits.

They come and go as they please without losing their beds, unlike guests at traditional shelters, who must line up each night.

The facility is designed to accommodate groups of people moving out of unauthorized homeless camps.

It allows partners, pets and possessions, which are barred from most traditional shelters, and there aren’t many rules and admission restrictions.

[Hannibal Lecter]

A one-way ticket from Dallas to Los Angeles on Greyhound can be had for $59. I imagine the city can get a discount for buying them in bulk.

[jrd1964]

Sunday night, a man vandalized the lobby area and smashed windows at the 1505 Elm building. He was arrested and believed to be homeless.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/man-arrest ... e-building

[tamtagon]

He needs help not jail. If he was a homeless veteran, would that matter? Nope.

[cowboyeagle05]

Sounds like the library has decided to be a part of the solution rather than just fight the homeless problem on their front doorstep.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/05/31/dall ... r-for-all/

Lowe oversees the library system’s adult services: everything from tax assistance, to healthcare navigation, computer classes, English classes, and now a robust homeless engagement program as well. Several years ago, a grant allowed them to add a staffer with a social work background to help connect homeless patrons to services because success is often about access.

Giudice admits that she had to overcome her own assumptions when shaping the program. After transferring from a branch library to expanded duties downtown, she says she saw the homeless loitering outside and decided that helping them obtain their GEDs would solve the problem. Her awakening came when a homeless patron with a doctorate offered to teach it for her.

[mdg109]

Is Metro Dallas Homeless Alliance the main organization for homelessness in Dallas? I was out downtown yesterday during the day, and I noticed a lot more homeless than usual. I'm just trying to read up on what the city is doing and how to support.

Also, has anyone visited the central library recently? I'm just wondering if the library experience is ok once you get past all the homeless hanging out outside.

[jrd1964]

The central library is one of the few places one can go to in their situation, outside of a shelter, and not get run off by police or property owners. There's a/c, sockets to charge up cell phones, computers, and that outreach program also. The bathrooms used to be a problem with folks trying to bathe, but I think there's less of that now. There is security there, and the employees there seem to want to help anyone who has a question. You should be all right there.

I'm not sure what the City is doing, but it doesn't seem to be quite enough to turn the corner on the situation. You have the publicizing of the breakup of various tent cities underneath freeways and other areas, but seemingly not much more.

The MDHA seems to be the lead agency, but there really isn't just one resource. With different providers here, there are multiple angles regarding assistance.
* The Bridge looks like it was supposed to be an all-in-one spot for help, but in the end, not quite. There are meals served, a Parkland clinic, and a few places one can sleep (but those are always full).
* The Stewpot has a clothing room, will help get birth certificates or other needed ID/paperwork, and provide a secure way to receive mail if one doesn't have a mailbox somewhere. (They used to serve food there, but now that is handled by The Bridge)
* Austin Street provides a few overnight shelter spots with dinner and breakfast and shower at no cost, but few caseworker opportunities.
* CitySquare has several services including education, a TX Workforce office, a food pantry, a thrift store, and a clinic (collaboration with Baylor Scott & White); housing is available infrequently and under certain guidelines.
* OurCalling provides some meals and a free washer-dryer service, as well as printed and app-based lists of their and other resources.
* Dallas Life is an overnight shelter but I'm not sure what else they do.
* Union Gospel Mission is also an overnight shelter, and I don't know what else they do, either.
* Salvation Army provides up to 30 days shelter free, then there is a charge. I don't know what the amount is, nor what else they do here.
* Soupmobile provides meals, has their own church, and is the organization that puts up several hundred each Christmas at a local hotel (the downtown Omni has hosted it the last few years); they get catered food, gifts, and clothing during that stay. As far as other day-to-day services, I'm not sure.

A few churches do various things, like free meals, food pantry, and individual day bus passes.

I do remember hearing about having part of the old naval air station as a possible place to put up folks but that talk didn't last long. The station isn't near any social service resources and there was supposedly pollution or other EPA-type issues out there.

I'm not sure if the more-than usual thing is because of the economy, or because people are moving here from other cities/areas, or what it could be.

As for the magic solution, I'm not sure what it is. More mental health resources (and better indigent physical health, including dental) would be good, some kind of longer-than-a-day DART bus pass availability would help, maybe a secure spot(s) to leave bags/personal items when not needed during the day. I'm sure there are other things that could be done that are unfilled niches.

[mdg109]

Thanks so much for the info. I know housing first has worked really well in other cities, and BC Workshop has helped out with a small village here in Dallas, but that takes a lot of money to start up and sustain.

I'm going to check out the library and see what the experience is like.

[jrd1964]

Thanks so much for the info. I know housing first has worked really well in other cities, and BC Workshop has helped out with a small village here in Dallas, but that takes a lot of money to start up and sustain.

I'm going to check out the library and see what the experience is like.

I forgot to mention the Cottages at Hickory Crossing, a collaborative effort between CitySquare, the city, and other groups/agencies. It is overseen by CitySquare and is across the street from one of its main facilities. It took at least a year or 2 longer than expected to complete and open. Most folks there are the most chronically homeless, and they can stay in each cottage for as long as they like. The setup of each cottage is simple, with living area, kitchen, bathroom, and a bed (as well as other modest furnishings). There is a laundromat on-site, it is on the bus line, and close to CitySquare and other social services.

[Matt777]

Thanks so much for the info. I know housing first has worked really well in other cities, and BC Workshop has helped out with a small village here in Dallas, but that takes a lot of money to start up and sustain.

I'm going to check out the library and see what the experience is like.

I forgot to mention the Cottages at Hickory Crossing, a collaborative effort between CitySquare, the city, and other groups/agencies. It is overseen by CitySquare and is across the street from one of its main facilities. It took at least a year or 2 longer than expected to complete and open. Most folks there are the most chronically homeless, and they can stay in each cottage for as long as they like. The setup of each cottage is simple, with living area, kitchen, bathroom, and a bed (as well as other modest furnishings). There is a laundromat on-site, it is on the bus line, and close to CitySquare and other social services.

Isn't that the one that ended up costing like $130k per 400 sqft "cottage?" Surely there's a better solution. You could likely give them a 3/2 single wide mobile home and lot on the city outskirts for less than that.

[Hannibal Lecter]

^ Or bus tickets to california for about $120 a pop.

[jrd1964]

I don't know why the $$$ and time overruns. I have heard that if CitySquare does any more housing (I have a feeling they will) they will approach it differently next time.

[tamtagon]

^ Or bus tickets to california for about $120 a pop.

gross

[I45Tex]

gross

I know, it's gotten tricky to respond in detail to his posts about transit, smart growth and culture or society when I can't recall which Koch brother he is IRL

[Tnexster]

Isn't that the one that ended up costing like $130k per 400 sqft "cottage?" Surely there's a better solution. You could likely give them a 3/2 single wide mobile home and lot on the city outskirts for less than that.

What?

[Hannibal Lecter]

gross

Gross is having someone take a dump in the hallway of your building, or drop their pants and do the same in the street. Gross is having to explain to your son that the brown pile by the dumpster didn't come from a horse like he thought. Gross is watching a man jerk off into the grille of a car in broad daylight a block from your house. Gross is having someone destroy a present from your mother trying to use it to break the window of your residence, with you inside. Gross is no longer feeling safe walking down your own street late at night. Gross is watching them just drop their trash in the middle of the sidewalk, while standing next to a trash can.

Gross is being knocked unconscious, with a concussion and a broken facial bone because you opened your front door in the middle of the day.

[jrd1964]

They're not all like that.

I know, because I was homeless for a year.

I have never resorted to hurting or attacking anyone, nor have I broken into anyone's home or business.

It's awful that things have happened to you and around you that have led you to how you feel, but please, don't throw me (and some others who are legitimately trying to come back from very difficult situations) out with the baby and bathwater.

They're not all like that.

[tamtagon]

gross

Gross is having someone take a dump in the hallway of your building, or drop their pants and do the same in the street. Gross is having to explain to your son that the brown pile by the dumpster didn't come from a horse like he thought. Gross is watching a man jerk off into the grille of a car in broad daylight a block from your house. Gross is having someone destroy a present from your mother trying to use it to break the window of your residence, with you inside. Gross is no longer feeling safe walking down your own street late at night. Gross is watching them just drop their trash in the middle of the sidewalk, while standing next to a trash can.

Gross is being knocked unconscious, with a concussion and a broken facial bone because you opened your front door in the middle of the day.

I'm encouraged by your bravery, compelled by your conviction. Most people would have moved years ago.

[mdg109]

There are several public outreach meetings scheduled to talk about the spike in homelessness in the area:
https://www.docdroid.net/QzUoeGC/homele ... etings.pdf

I definitely plan on attending one of these.

[itsjrd1964]

Decentralizing those who are homeless may not be easy, and in the case of 2 recent ideas (using the former Timberlawn hospital, using city recreation centers at night), could be quite difficult to implement.

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... y-council/

[Matt777]

The epic amount of pearl clutching by North Dallasites that has been happening since this plan started floating around is worth it enough

[Tivo_Kenevil]

What a Shame. A decentralized approach make sense. Those rec centers and unused DISD buildings could be put to good use. I really don't understand why people don't want them to be used. If the homeless are in a shelter you don't see them out begging for money. Exactly what they don't wanna see.

[tamtagon]

The standard must apply to the whole metropolitan area, all 13 counties for maximum effectiveness. Public Hospitals and Public Universities should administer in-take, medical treatment, psychological evaluations. Those who do not choose or are not fully capable of choosing homelessness are placed in the appropriate temporary housing commensurate to where they grew up.

The bulk of the folks trying to get back into a stable 'homed' environment will have to do so in the suburbs. All of the religious entities (tax free entities) should participate in the temporary-to-permanent housing stage [it's what Jesus would do, and those are the primary entities with a constant volunteer workforce who will actually help out of goodness, not just for a paycheck).

[Tnexster]

I did see a disturbing homeless issue one day while driving north on Harwood at Commerce. A homeless person staggered out into the middle of the intersection, could barely stand up while trying to cross at an angle. Stopped in the middle of the intersection, stopped all traffic and almost fell down before making his way to the opposite corner, then crossed back behind the cars waiting for him to decide where he was going to go. Several other homeless people were milling about in the same area which at that moment seemed kind of overwhelming. Not sure what the city will do about that.

[mdg109]

^Yeah homelessness in this area has always been pretty visible since it's close to The Bridge, Stewpot, and the 7-11. I'm downtown at least a couple times a week, and to me it seemed like the homeless situation had gotten better, but not sure if the situation has changed. Anyway, if I see something bad, I usually report it on the Dallas 311 app, and now the See Say Now app which has a category for homeless situations. I've also seen people @ Philip Kingston (council member for part of downtown) on social media, and he often responds pretty quickly. You can also @ Downtown Dallas Inc.

On another note, was downtown this morning and was surprised at how busy EMC was in the middle of the day and in the heat.

[tamtagon]

I did see a disturbing homeless issue one day while driving north on Harwood at Commerce. A homeless person staggered out into the middle of the intersection, could barely stand up while trying to cross at an angle. Stopped in the middle of the intersection, stopped all traffic and almost fell down before making his way to the opposite corner, then crossed back behind the cars waiting for him to decide where he was going to go. Several other homeless people were milling about in the same area which at that moment seemed kind of overwhelming. Not sure what the city will do about that.

The city should not be responsible for teaching people to care for the unfortunate. The activities of those who chose to be homeless or lead a lifestyle of homelessness, Hobos and Panhandlers, should be monitored for behavior infringing on general public safety.

But when considering the damage done by homelessness and negative impact on public safety from those who do not chose it and/or are not capable of avoiding the situation -- and this is the majority of the homeless or those leading a lifestyle of homelessness population -- we must remember the aberrant behavior resides within the 'homed population' neglecting their societal and sometimes legal responsibility as caregiver.

What percentage of the homeless population comes from the US Military? Why would there ever be greater than 0% of the homeless population coming from the US Military?

The problems and disturbing issues coming from a homeless population is entirely owned by a regular population which does not care enough to figure out how to take care of it's unfortunate and societal orphans.

There's a reason all religions try to teach humanity. There is a universe of reasons why some people cannot by themselves maintain a roof over their heads, that occurs naturally, the perversion is when a society stops taking care of them.

[joshua.dodd]

Actually, the problem is the Bridge and its location in Downtown. The Bridge needs to be relocated somewhere away from the central core of the city.

[tamtagon]

Maybe the city should put all the homeless people on a bus to California, would that help?

The Bridge is an attempt to help a homeless population created by a society which allows the condition to exist out of hand in the first place. The Bridge needs a Parkland Hospital clinic expansion, The Bridge needs supportive housing all across the suburbs...

The Bridge needs the ability to tend wounds and illness, evaluate emotional stability and intellectual capability, and needs an ample array temporary housing for some and permanent housing for others.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Maybe the city should put all the homeless people on a bus to California, would that help?

I've been saying that for years.

The Bridge needs to be put out of OUR misery. All it does it attract problems and enable their behaviour. And yes, I meant that exactly as written.

[Hannibal Lecter]

While there homeless people I've Never seen them camp out on sidewalks or go in public. The downtown patrol is good about policing that. Only the stew pot and the presbyteryian church has that problem. I'm in DT all-day everyday.
Your experience seems anecdotal.

Admittedly I'm on the Deep Ellum side of the highway, but you can see them camp out on the sidewalks and in entranceways every night. I've seen them "go" in public many times. There was a video circulating about a year ago of a woman at a bus stop dropping her pants, shitting into a sewer opening, pulling her pants up and hopping on the bus in broad daylight. I've even seen one guy jerking off into a car grill a block from my house, right on the street in the middle of the day. I was out at 5 AM a couple weeks ago and couldn't believe how many wandering around the parking lots looking into car windows. Gee, I wonder why.

Still anecdotal?

[tamtagon]

While there homeless people I've Never seen them camp out on sidewalks or go in public. The downtown patrol is good about policing that. Only the stew pot and the presbyteryian church has that problem. I'm in DT all-day everyday.
Your experience seems anecdotal.

Admittedly I'm on the Deep Ellum side of the highway, but you can see them camp out on the sidewalks and in entranceways every night. I've seen them "go" in public many times. There was a video circulating about a year ago of a woman at a bus stop dropping her pants, shitting into a sewer opening, pulling her pants up and hopping on the bus in broad daylight. I've even seen one guy jerking off into a car grill a block from my house, right on the street in the middle of the day. I was out at 5 AM a couple weeks ago and couldn't believe how many wandering around the parking lots looking into car windows. Gee, I wonder why.

Still anecdotal?

Would that make your life easier if they were euthanized?

[Hannibal Lecter]

^ I believe there's a little bit of wiggle room between not attracting/encouraging/enabling/subsidizing and euthanasia.

[ContriveDallasite]

That escalated quickly...

[itsjrd1964]

....and, um, there is a whole topic about homelessness in the city issues section...

[tamtagon]

^thank you, posts moved

[itsjrd1964]

Even thought I don't have the magic fingers like you, glad to help.

[dukemeredith]

I’m saddened to see that my thread has devolved into sardonic comments on euthanasia.

[tamtagon]

It is depressing.

[itsjrd1964]

I’m saddened to see that my thread has devolved into sardonic comments on euthanasia.

Makes me sad too, as I was homeless for a year. As there are various paths toward becoming homeless, so too are the ways to help. Some just need a leg up or 2. Others have much more complicated issues that require a much more involved solution.

[itsjrd1964]

The head of Amazon, Jeff Bezos, has put $2 billion towards a new fund called the Bezos Day One Fund. It will have 2 objectives: 1, for preschools in low-income areas; the other, to aid homeless families. Maybe it will take something like this to begin to make real change in the homeless situation here, and elsewhere.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... li=BBnbfcN

[Tnexster]

The head of Amazon, Jeff Bezos, has put $2 billion towards a new fund called the Bezos Day One Fund. It will have 2 objectives: 1, for preschools in low-income areas; the other, to aid homeless families. Maybe it will take something like this to begin to make real change in the homeless situation here, and elsewhere.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... li=BBnbfcN

Could be, it's nice that people with the resources he has are stepping up to make a difference. The burden is clearly too much for government to tackle on its own.

[Yak_Forger]

Eh, I wouldn't call it too big for the government... The main issue isn't in the size of the problem, or the resources needed for it (just reduce the last F-35 order by 3 planes and you're good to go for a decent period of time) but in the fact that... how do you differentiate someone who's homeless because they don't want to work from someone who's homeless because they ran into serious issues in life or from someone who's homeless because they have mental issues?

It would require a case-by-case long psychological survey, which is hard when the people regarded by this program are, well, homeless. What are you going to do? Detain them and/or give them these GPS trackers you give to felons? Or are you going to just let them rot? Or round them up and euthanise/send them away?

It's like prostitution (either you ban it, and it develops in the form of human trafficking, crude living conditions, rape and coercition, or you allow it, but it means you're endorsing prostitution), it's a can - if not a tanker ship - of worms that will bring massive issues no matter how you try to tackle it.

[itsjrd1964]

Dallas City Hall says housing the homeless in old jails or empty hospitals will not work

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... l-not-work

[tamtagon]

That's encouraging.

[itsjrd1964]

The cafe at CitySquare has been open a few weeks, and is an unexpected, nice little place. It's been in the works for a few years. It's not open at dinner time, just breakfast and lunch. I hope it goes well for them.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/restaura ... n-11196712

[itsjrd1964]

It's been 2 years already since the Cottages at Hickory Creek opened up for chronically homeless. It is seen as a success by those that are over the program.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/dallas-tin ... g-homeless

[itsjrd1964]

No solutions in sight as Dallas' homeless problem continues to grow

http://www.fox4news.com/news/no-solutio ... es-to-grow