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Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby dukemeredith » 30 Mar 2017 16:36

I'm at a loss over who might be potential anchor tenants to fill a new tower of this size...

Tnexster
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Tnexster » 30 Mar 2017 16:37

dukemeredith wrote:I'm at a loss over who might be potential anchor tenants to fill a new tower of this size...


Same thought I have, unless they go mixed use and have somebody in mind we don't know about.

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dallaz
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby dallaz » 30 Mar 2017 17:20

AIG is looking to consolidate in Atlanta or Dallas. They need over 500,000 sq ft of space. That could be a possible tenant...

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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby dukemeredith » 30 Mar 2017 19:27

AIG leasing that much space in one tower would be great, but my impression is that they're eyeing suburban campuses. And Atlanta is favored.

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/off ... -70501#ath

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willyk
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby willyk » 30 Mar 2017 23:02

Does anybody else think the site is a little too small for something this big? Makes me wonder if there is a plan to acquire the Oncor building and expand the footprint.

That would also open up options for mixed use. The success of Park District and The Union say that this is what the market wants. The solo towers downtown are losing out to them. It seems like a multi-building project may be necessary both for the size they envision and to be competitive.

...and you know they have to be ready to compete with whatever Tim has planned for all of that land just down the street. It would be a shame to put up some big tower and then suffer in the shadow of Tim's version of Hudson Yards.
Last edited by willyk on 03 Apr 2017 02:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Cbdallas » 31 Mar 2017 10:59

I would love for them to pursue mixed use in this building with condos on top maybe a hotel in the middle and office below with a retail base. However I wish we were talking 80 to 90 floors not 70. I know it is hard to put all that together but it can happen and has happened in other cities.

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tanzoak
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby tanzoak » 31 Mar 2017 11:40

I don't understand everyone's fixation on in-building mixed use. What is it that you see to be so valuable with having office AND residential AND hotel all in one tower?

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Cbdallas
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Cbdallas » 31 Mar 2017 11:59

I don't think in this case it so much a fixation but the only plausible way to cobble together the need for a super tall in downtown Dallas. The only other longshot is a MAJOR corporate move from another state.

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dallaz
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby dallaz » 31 Mar 2017 14:17

tanzoak wrote:I don't understand everyone's fixation on in-building mixed use. What is it that you see to be so valuable with having office AND residential AND hotel all in one tower?


People like mixed use because there is an opportunity to add more vibrancy to Downtown after 5 o'clock. (and on weekends). The additional people pationaizing Downtown establishments will give Dallas that edge that we've always wanted.

I personally don't think Downtown is vibrant enough (even though Downtown has came a long way) to build a large office building without a mixed use component. When we reach critical mass, I wouldn't mind seeing a few large buildings completely devoted to office space. We need as many bodies Downtown as possible...not just on workdays.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby The_Overdog » 31 Mar 2017 14:49

Mixed use in-building is also theoretically more recession resistant than a big building of all one use.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 31 Mar 2017 15:23

The_Overdog wrote:Mixed use in-building is also theoretically more recession resistant than a big building of all one use.


My main concern with this Building​ is that Perot is behind it. I just don't consider this guy a great developer.

As far as a mixed use purpose for this site....

I'm not sure Hillwood Urban has ever successfully completed an Urban Mixed use project. They really just specialize in office buildings.

Their Buildings in Las Colinas are strictly Offices with a dead corporate vibe.

Thier Campus project in turtle Creek is listed as Urban on their site. But given its campus layout and excluded nature- it's a real stretch to call that an Urban project.

Then we have Victory Park.. they really missed here.

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/ ... as-a-bust/

From the quote that I posted earlier It feels like he wants this to be just a big office building. He is even giving The tenant "whatever they want".

This tells me Hillwood has no vision, outside an office building.

I recall the first render iteration of this building..​ it showed an iconic design, then we had an other render that showed a smaller building with an un-iconic design..Looked like something we have seen hundreds of times before... Now this one with the star architect. He's all over the place. Seems like there is no plan...No vision.

Don't get your hopes up for this building as mixed use. If that was the plan, we would've seen more definitive plans by now.

He's just periodically throwing renders out there trying to lure a tenant as if this were Pokemon Go. Maybe it will work!

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby tamtagon » 31 Mar 2017 16:08

Cbdallas wrote:The only other longshot is a MAJOR corporate move from another state.


I'm still trying to decide what corporation I would pick to anchor a 1,200 footer...

The Perot connection leads to HP Enterprise, but pulling that out of Plano would be next to impossible.

I think I would want this entity to be in the renewable energy/power field; anchoring the building, sure, but also anchoring Dallas as the go-to locale for that entire industry. Yep, that's what I would choose.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Tnexster » 31 Mar 2017 16:13

What's holding Ross Perot Jr. back from developing Dallas' tallest tower

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... oping.html

"We need a client," Perot, chairman of Hillwood and The Perot Cos., told the Dallas Business Journal."This is a 1 million-square-foot build-to-suit and is a special purpose project."

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tanzoak
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby tanzoak » 02 Apr 2017 01:47

dallaz wrote:
tanzoak wrote:I don't understand everyone's fixation on in-building mixed use. What is it that you see to be so valuable with having office AND residential AND hotel all in one tower?


People like mixed use because there is an opportunity to add more vibrancy to Downtown after 5 o'clock. (and on weekends). The additional people pationaizing Downtown establishments will give Dallas that edge that we've always wanted.

I personally don't think Downtown is vibrant enough (even though Downtown has came a long way) to build a large office building without a mixed use component. When we reach critical mass, I wouldn't mind seeing a few large buildings completely devoted to office space. We need as many bodies Downtown as possible...not just on workdays.


But that's just wanting more residential or hotel projects downtown, not specifically mixed use. Like, if there were two 30 story buildings going to be built, why would you prefer them to both be 15 stories of office and 15 stories of residences, rather than one 30-story office tower and one 30-story residential tower? What's the benefit?

To be honest, I have never heard of this "let's put a hotel and some condos on top of an office building" outside of these forums. It just seems super inefficient (read: more expensive), as residences have very different needs and demands than offices.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 02 Apr 2017 16:26

tanzoak wrote:To be honest, I have never heard of this "let's put a hotel and some condos on top of an office building" outside of these forums. It just seems super inefficient (read: more expensive), as residences have very different needs and demands than offices.


As much as I would love the forum members to take credit for this idea. This isn't anything new, this concept has been around a while. This is extremely commonplace in European city centers.

I recently stayed in hotel / residential building in NYC in Lower Manhattan. The Residents / Hotel guest had different elevators/ entrances and were in a different parts of the building. So you didn't even notice it TBH. I'm sure office/Residential combos are planned similarly.

Id like to point out that The Statler redevelopment in downtown Dallas will be Hotel and residential. In addition it will be the new home and of the DMN (office). There will also be retail on ground floor.

In the West End Market Place (Dallas) there are Residential Units in close proximity to the offices in there.

It's not really awkward if you think about it. Most residential ppl will be going to work while the office people are coming in.

Now, As far as a super tall building being office and residential.. the John Hancock Building in Chicago comes to mind.It is both Office and Residential.

http://www.johnhancockcenterchicago.com/building.html

I'm sure there are countless more..

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby mhainli » 02 Apr 2017 20:22

Mr. Perot:

Prove your naysayers wrong. Think big and outside the box.
Build it tall (tallest in the Southwest) and build it right (vibrant at the base..). Buy the Oncor building next door and extend the synergy east closer to Klyde Warren park. Makes your property and plans worth even more.

Thank you,
Dallas

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 03 Apr 2017 16:40

Butler Brothers building is also mixed use it houses office space in the basement, restaurants and residential. Hotel portion will open soon.

The benefit of a single structure with multiple uses can mean a better function of parking garages. Offices are busy 9 to 5 mostly. Residential tends to be less during those hours. With careful calculation of overlap you can provide spots that are occupied for and open for other uses at different hours. Garages that provide space for night time valet and residential but during the day mostly house office. Most builders/developers of course prefer single use cause its less complicated to structure in a deal. Plus most developers don't seem to like mixing departments. Residential and office are two very different fields when it comes to development and operations.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Tucy » 12 Apr 2017 20:06

Tnexster wrote:New high-rise would round out Dallas' skyline

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... as-skyline

Potential plans for a new downtown Dallas skyscraper never fail to catch folks' attention.

But what really turned heads about the latest design was that the building is round.

Award-winning British architect Sir Norman Foster designed the new tower for a site on the north side of downtown that's owned by developer Ross Perot Jr.

The curved shape of the high-rise would be an eye-popping addition to Dallas' growing skyline.


Wow! Two articles in a week. Steve's usual practice is to wait 6 months between marketing pieces for proposed developments. Note that the building grew from "almost 70 stories" to "more than 70 stories" in the 6 days between Steve's two articles.

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R1070
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby R1070 » 12 Apr 2017 21:36

This REALLY needs to be the tallest in Texas!

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby rantanamo » 13 Apr 2017 01:44

Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:New high-rise would round out Dallas' skyline

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... as-skyline

Potential plans for a new downtown Dallas skyscraper never fail to catch folks' attention.

But what really turned heads about the latest design was that the building is round.

Award-winning British architect Sir Norman Foster designed the new tower for a site on the north side of downtown that's owned by developer Ross Perot Jr.

The curved shape of the high-rise would be an eye-popping addition to Dallas' growing skyline.


Wow! Two articles in a week. Steve's usual practice is to wait 6 months between marketing pieces for proposed developments. Note that the building grew from "almost 70 stories" to "more than 70 stories" in the 6 days between Steve's two articles.


one day you're going to enter a thread featuring an actual successful project.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby mwaskow » 24 Jan 2018 23:56

Found this rendering I had never seen before. I hope someday this project is built! In my opinion this would trump the BOA Tower as the king of the Dallas skyline.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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dallaz
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby dallaz » 25 Jan 2018 08:03

mwaskow wrote:Found this rendering I had never seen before. I hope someday this project is built! In my opinion this would trump the BOA Tower as the king of the Dallas skyline.

Wow!
I’ve never seen that rendering before. It looks amazing.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby lakewoodhobo » 25 Jan 2018 09:58

mwaskow wrote:Found this rendering I had never seen before. I hope someday this project is built! In my opinion this would trump the BOA Tower as the king of the Dallas skyline.


That rendering of the building just beyond the KWP lawn reminds me of something.

Image

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby eburress » 25 Jan 2018 10:31

mwaskow wrote:Found this rendering I had never seen before. I hope someday this project is built! In my opinion this would trump the BOA Tower as the king of the Dallas skyline.


Man, I REALLY dislike this tower and its lazy, inelegant design. Give me pretty much any Pelli/SOM/Pei tower over this turd.

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dallaz
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby dallaz » 25 Jan 2018 10:37

eburress wrote:
mwaskow wrote:Found this rendering I had never seen before. I hope someday this project is built! In my opinion this would trump the BOA Tower as the king of the Dallas skyline.


Man, I REALLY dislike this tower and its lazy, inelegant design. Give me pretty much any Pelli/SOM/Pei tower over this turd.

That’s quite harsh. I don’t think it’s that bad. Could it use a little tweaking? Yes. In my opinon, it has potential. I wouldn’t call it a “turd”. :lol:

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby joshua.dodd » 25 Jan 2018 10:51

eburress wrote:
mwaskow wrote:Found this rendering I had never seen before. I hope someday this project is built! In my opinion this would trump the BOA Tower as the king of the Dallas skyline.


Man, I REALLY dislike this tower and its lazy, inelegant design. Give me pretty much any Pelli/SOM/Pei tower over this turd.


I have to agree. This tower is too high profile for such an uninspiring, blase design. It looks like a giant AAA battery wrapped in chicken wire. . .

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby eburress » 25 Jan 2018 11:05

dallaz wrote:
eburress wrote:
mwaskow wrote:Found this rendering I had never seen before. I hope someday this project is built! In my opinion this would trump the BOA Tower as the king of the Dallas skyline.


Man, I REALLY dislike this tower and its lazy, inelegant design. Give me pretty much any Pelli/SOM/Pei tower over this turd.

That’s quite harsh. I don’t think it’s that bad. Could it use a little tweaking? Yes. In my opinon, it has potential. I wouldn’t call it a “turd”. :lol:


It's obviously just my opinion, but given the building's significance, I do genuinely feel it's a turd. It would be one thing if this was a less prominent "filler" building, tucked away in the skyline, but as long as Love Field continues to exist, this could be the tallest, most prominent structure to ever be built in Dallas, and this building falls way short of that.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby CRE_Investor » 25 Jan 2018 11:11

I understand that site's limitations due to it's shape and size, and its unique ability to build as high as you want, but no matter how the building is designed it's going to be an eyesore in my mind because there is nothing even remotely close to that scale in that portion of downtown. It will look like the Cityplace Tower as an out of place lone high rise surrounded by low and mid rise buildings.

As an aside, I think a wrapped AAA battery is the perfect description of that rendering.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 25 Jan 2018 11:14

This rendering is new but this design is the same one Hillwood threw around during their tenant fishing last year....

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dallaz
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby dallaz » 25 Jan 2018 12:16

eburress wrote:
dallaz wrote:
eburress wrote:
Man, I REALLY dislike this tower and its lazy, inelegant design. Give me pretty much any Pelli/SOM/Pei tower over this turd.

That’s quite harsh. I don’t think it’s that bad. Could it use a little tweaking? Yes. In my opinon, it has potential. I wouldn’t call it a “turd”. :lol:


It's obviously just my opinion, but given the building's significance, I do genuinely feel it's a turd. It would be one thing if this was a less prominent "filler" building, tucked away in the skyline, but as long as Love Field continues to exist, this could be the tallest, most prominent structure to ever be built in Dallas, and this building falls way short of that.

Oh, I’m not arguing against your opinion. I believe everyone has a right to express their opinion regardless if anyone disagrees.

I will say, architecture is subjective. Everyone will not be pleased when it comes to the design of any particular building. For Example: I know people who think that the Reunion Tower is the ugliest building in Dallas. Many people may agree and others may disagree. But it doesn’t take away from it being a Dallas icon.

It’s always good for the public to scrutinize the works of others. That’s how we get the best out of people. Especially, when it come to architecture and on a building that will have a major impact on the skyline.

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tanzoak
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby tanzoak » 25 Jan 2018 13:17

CRE_Investor wrote:but no matter how the building is designed it's going to be an eyesore in my mind because there is nothing even remotely close to that scale in that portion of downtown. It will look like the Cityplace Tower as an out of place lone high rise surrounded by low and mid rise buildings.


Cities don’t grow one story at a time.

Empire Stare Building, 1941. “Eyesore! Out of scale! Needs moar contextual size.”
Image

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trueicon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby trueicon » 25 Jan 2018 13:59

CRE_Investor wrote:the building is designed it's going to be an eyesore in my mind because there is nothing even remotely close to that scale in that portion of downtown. It will look like the Cityplace Tower as an out of place lone high rise surrounded by low and mid rise buildings.


Huh? It's right next to Fountain Place, which is the 5th tallest building in Dallas, and the under construction AMLE Fountain Place, which will be 40 stories. It isn't anything like Cityplace Tower, which has no other high rise located near it. You could make the argument it will blend in with the surrounding buildings better than BOA Plaza.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Kelley USA » 25 Jan 2018 14:39

I guess I have bad taste... I think it looks pretty stunning!

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby eburress » 25 Jan 2018 15:22

Yeah, I'm not concerned about the building's scale. There are a number of decently tall structures planned or already being built nearby.

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R1070
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby R1070 » 25 Jan 2018 18:00

I like the building but I hope they are more creative with the top of it. I really want this to be the new tallest in Texas.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby joshua.dodd » 26 Jan 2018 00:09

mwaskow wrote:Found this rendering I had never seen before. I hope someday this project is built! In my opinion this would trump the BOA Tower as the king of the Dallas skyline.


If that is to scale, how tall is that? Compared to the Fountain Place, it is a mammoth.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby joshua.dodd » 26 Jan 2018 00:28

I wonder if Foster is trying to mimick this old project, Griffin Square Tower, which never came to life.

Image

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby tamtagon » 26 Jan 2018 08:45

I like it, round, should be taller though.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby muncien » 26 Jan 2018 08:55

tamtagon wrote:I like it, round, should be taller though.


I agree... Round is cool. But maybe have a curving/tapered top... like a rolled up napkin at fancy restaurant. (sorry, only visual that comes to mind)
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby eburress » 26 Jan 2018 09:11

joshua.dodd wrote:I wonder if Foster is trying to mimick this old project, Griffin Square Tower, which never came to life.

Image

Yeah, that was one of my criticisms of Foster's design, that it was a knockoff of a tower proposed ~40 years earlier.

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xen0blue
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby xen0blue » 26 Jan 2018 17:03

Any new info on this or are we just rehashing old speculation due to a recently unearthed render which is probably from a year ago?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 26 Jan 2018 18:46

xen0blue wrote:Any new info on this or are we just rehashing old speculation due to a recently unearthed render which is probably from a year ago?

The latter

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 30 Jan 2018 14:47

This site is a part of the Amazon proposal so that could have an impact on its viability in a multitude of ways but that’s the only thing that’s new on this particular project.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Hillwood Urban's ~50 storey tower on former BoA motorcourt

Postby Dragon_Lady » 01 Feb 2018 22:42

Your analogy of a AAA battery wrapped in chicken wire is spot on and hilarious.


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