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Deep Ellum 1.0

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clcrash19
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby clcrash19 » 24 Jul 2017 17:43

Was actually out in DE saturday night after the usa soccer game and it was absolutely packed on all three streets.. when bomb factory and deep ellum live reopens and have consistent concerts that should only increase when more people flood out of those venues.

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby willyk » 24 Jul 2017 20:37

Way underserved for hotel and residential.

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Austin55
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Austin55 » 27 Jul 2017 22:22

Did anyone talk about 400 S Hall yet? Looks like a 5 story garage wrapped apartment is being planned there. 336 units. HLR Architects.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 27 Jul 2017 23:57

I've heard rumblings about that property, but this is the first I've heard of any actual plan. Recently they had one of those hearings to prohibit ground water usage so they don't have to clean-up subsurface environmental issues. Do you have a link to any information?

While that property is one of the larger tracts available for redevelopment in Deep Ellum, IMHO it's a really crappy location. In fact I would say it's one of the worst in the neighborhood. It's on the very edge of Deep Ellum. You're a pretty hefty walk from any amenities, except for the Deep Ellum Brewery. One on side you've got the city drunk tank. It's adjacent to the homeless camps under I-30. On the other side of I-30 you've got City Square and Austin Street, both of which are major plagues upon the area.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 28 Jul 2017 00:38

Maybe it's because developing anything closer would get a lot of push back from the neighborhood? I'm totally guessing here, I just feel like putting it wouldn't be easy to plop a high-rise somewhere in the middle of Deep Ellum, and, aside from this 400 S Hall lot, I don't see too many lots available that aren't smack dab in the middle.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 28 Jul 2017 13:40

^ I think it's more a case of cheap dirt. It's almost hard to find something that the PD doesn't allow as long as you meet some very basic architectural requirements and keep your building height under 150 feet, so the neighborhood doesn't have much say.

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dpl-1202
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dpl-1202 » 28 Jul 2017 14:31


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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby willyk » 28 Jul 2017 22:47

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ I think it's more a case of cheap dirt

...and freeway visibility.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 29 Jul 2017 08:46

Dont be surprised to see a wave of parcel consolidation, sale and resale, and an Uptown-worthy shellacking of new mixed-use residential developments.

Finally, at long last, the end is in sight for East Dallas to continue as a suburban addition to downtown.

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TreeFrog
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby TreeFrog » 29 Jul 2017 16:50

I've been wondering what may happen with Lizard Lounge with that development going up so close...
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/20283489 ... Dallas-TX/

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 29 Jul 2017 23:51

I wouldn't mind if it stayed as is. It's so rare to have a venue stay in business for as long as Lizard Lounge has, I just wish these clubs could find a way to utilize their space during the week. Would it really be that hard to make it a restaurant Mon-Thurs or something?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 29 Jul 2017 23:55

I can't see the lizard lounge stay open. It will be developed eventually.


I hope some of the Deep Ellum momentum crosses over to fair park

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby willyk » 31 Jul 2017 03:48

tamtagon wrote:Finally, at long last, the end is in sight for East Dallas to continue as a suburban addition to downtown.

...yes! And to bridge the dead zone between downtown, Lower Greenville and Lakewood. Won't that be nice.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Jul 2017 08:44

400 South Hall is because of property consolidation is easier when you don't have to do any. That property is one big one and the thing I see from developers the most is not adding steps and it seems like that having to join parcels together is a big process. Personally, I don't understand enough about that part to know why but I have seen time and time again, developers skip buying a group of properties in a better location to buy an already large enough tract of land further away.

The biggest land play will be the from the city. That large swath of land they control next to I-30 at the edge of Deep Ellum near 400 S. Hall is the perfect piece for some Trammel Crow/KDC/Perot to swoop in and build new construction office, residential and retail without dealing with preservation of older buildings like the core of Deep Ellum. It contains a lot of city offices that will need to be moved but all they have to do is move some of those things closer to South Dallas promising they are bringing economic activity to a depressed area with the relocation of a new city facility etc. The price for selling off that property for economic development will be worth it.

city-facilities.png
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joshua.dodd
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby joshua.dodd » 31 Jul 2017 09:45

TreeFrog wrote:I've been wondering what may happen with Lizard Lounge with that development going up so close...
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/20283489 ... Dallas-TX/


"Unlimited height"

To hell with the Lizard Lounge, someone should build a super tall right there.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 31 Jul 2017 10:33

willyk wrote:
tamtagon wrote:Finally, at long last, the end is in sight for East Dallas to continue as a suburban addition to downtown.

...yes! And to bridge the dead zone between downtown, Lower Greenville and Lakewood. Won't that be nice.



Gaston and Ross need drastic make overs for that to happen!

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 31 Jul 2017 12:23

Counter-intuitive, contradictory and head-scratching as it may be to some very smart thinkers, high rises and skyscrapers are excellent companions to highways...

400 S. Hall is next to "the city drunk tank. It's adjacent to the homeless camps under I-30. On the other side of I-30 you've got City Square and Austin Street, both of which are major plagues upon the area." and while all this would seem to like a pit-bull dog pile of terrible neighborhood, it's not. With the entertainment core of Deep Ellum relatively secure, everything within a quarter mile is potentially prime real estate.

So that's just about all the land between Main and I-30. The unsavory aspects will be "transplanted."
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joshua.dodd
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby joshua.dodd » 31 Jul 2017 13:19

What's up with the new TRE and LRT? What's that all about?

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Tucy
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tucy » 31 Jul 2017 13:47

joshua.dodd wrote:What's up with the new TRE and LRT? What's that all about?


I was wondering the same thing. I'm guessing it's somehow related to the imminent move by Delta Airlines to establish a global mega-hub at DFW Airport. :lol:

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ericthegardener
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby ericthegardener » 31 Jul 2017 14:00

Vegan-friendly falafel restaurant chain shuts down its Dallas location

In early 2017, the restaurant hired a PR agency to try and drum up coverage, but received little response.

Arianne Bennett says they're saddened by the closure. "It is closed, and it makes us very sad," she says. "It's unfortunate there just is not the business for it there. We really loved being in the community."



http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/restaurants-bars/07-31-17-amsterdam-falafelshop-deep-ellum-closed/

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 31 Jul 2017 14:11

Tucy wrote:
joshua.dodd wrote:What's up with the new TRE and LRT? What's that all about?


I was wondering the same thing. I'm guessing it's somehow related to the imminent move by Delta Airlines to establish a global mega-hub at DFW Airport. :lol:




There's probably a better chance the new TRE and LRT routes will happen than SkyTeam operating a major hub at DFW.... and both are visions in my crystal ball.

However, DART has already has a schedule for passenger trains through the maintenance facility during the Red River Shoot Out.

Running the TRE up to Fair Park and then out to Mesquite and Kaufman County, well, DART, NCTCOG and Kaufman County have been talking about this for about a decade, not sure what's current. And then, also, there's talk about Amtrak and/or other passenger trains set-up between Dallas and Texarkana, Shreveport, Tyler Longview... really, all those town NE Texas/ArkLaTex towns are looking at commuter rail into North Texas. Fair Park is the logical meeting point with TRE. Not really so far fetched.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 31 Jul 2017 15:48

^ seem pointless we already have TRE at Union station and Green Line to Fairpark.

If mesquite really wanted a commuter rail they would have joined DART already.

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby willyk » 31 Jul 2017 20:02

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Gaston and Ross need drastic make overs for that to happen!


Ross seems to be happening as we speak dontcha think? A turnaround on Gaston is hard to imagine. But Ross to Gaston, downtown to Greenville, plus the Henderson corridor, would be enough to make a nice neighborhood and connect everything together.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 31 Jul 2017 20:33

I've always like the idea of a streetcar from Lakewood Shopping Center to (now called) Drever....

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 01 Aug 2017 09:34

tamtagon wrote:I've always like the idea of a streetcar from Lakewood Shopping Center to (now called) Drever....


IDK Lakewood isn't very dense TBH..and the shopping center has tons of parking.. I don't think anyone would use a streetcar.

Honestly, a street car from Mockingbird to LG to Ross and Downtown would probably be better a investment. All those new apartments and Townhomes coming up along Ross would be better served with improved transit service.

Live Oak would also be a better option for a streetcar IMO than Lakewood.

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eburress
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby eburress » 01 Aug 2017 14:33

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
tamtagon wrote:I've always like the idea of a streetcar from Lakewood Shopping Center to (now called) Drever....


IDK Lakewood isn't very dense TBH..and the shopping center has tons of parking.. I don't think anyone would use a streetcar.

Honestly, a street car from Mockingbird to LG to Ross and Downtown would probably be better a investment. All those new apartments and Townhomes coming up along Ross would be better served with improved transit service.

Live Oak would also be a better option for a streetcar IMO than Lakewood.


I completely agree. A streetcar from Mockingbird station, through Lower Greenville and all the denser East Dallas developments, down to Ross would be wildly popular.

Tnexster
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tnexster » 01 Aug 2017 15:28

^Well at least wildly expensive. I can see the Lower GV to downtown portion being fairly popular but still don't know that east Dallas has the density to really support it.

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rantanamo
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby rantanamo » 02 Aug 2017 03:04

I'd be curious as to the bus number of Ross vs Gaston. From experience, that Lakewood bus going down Gaston is a far more popular bus route. Lots more apts along Gaston than Ross giving it a pretty steady density. You also have the hospital and while not super dense, there are office buildings in Lakewood. The bus up to Mockingbird Station also links there at Abrams. The only advantage at this point in time for Ross is that Lower Greenville is at one end and downtown the other. I think the vastly improved parking situation in current Lower Greenville squashed to rail line argument some as well.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 03 Aug 2017 01:54

Deep Ellum Live will live again as Canton Hall, the latest music venue to rise from Deep Ellum’s early 2000s ashes and into the revitalized neighborhood.

About this time last year, the news broke that Clint and Whitney Barlow, owners of Trees and the Bomb Factory, were working on (re)introducing another venue, this one right next to the Bomb Factory at 2727 Canton St., on the corner with Crowdus. After extensive renovations to the space, which has been unoccupied since Deep Ellum Live shuttered in 2004, today a website and social media unveiling revealed the venue’s new name and its opening date: Oct. 31

https://www.dmagazine.com/arts-entertai ... eep-ellum/

Another music venue for Deep Ellum.

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Cmacemm
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Cmacemm » 03 Aug 2017 14:55

Deep ellum live was always my favorite large venue as a teen. My love for the smell of stale beer (I know t smells bad, but it reminds me of going to punk shows as a teen) started here!

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 03 Aug 2017 15:24

I really hope to see some community stuff come to Deep Ellum soon. So far I am seeing it head down the road that has always plagued Deep Ellum which is a primarily regional destination. Lowest Greenville was able to pull back on some of that with its street improvements, restrictions on badly managed bars, and the attraction of a grocery store with other restaurants and retail that can serve both regional and neighborhood customers. The problem here is Deep Ellum keeps going after customers only from the farthest reaches of the Metroplex with destination bars, restaurants, and music venues. Which has the tendency to erode the safety and security as it becomes more about parking masses of people to get drunk and go home far away to live the rest of their lives without coming back to the district to do the same again.

The difference here between let's say Lowest Greenville which has had its own ups and downs is Lowest Greenville has a whole list of neighborhoods of homeowners and property owners who forced change upon it. Deep Ellum is light on the residential even with the newest tower. Without neighborhood advocates who are residents the area will always lean towards entertainment district only and will rise and fall like every iteration before it. If the neighborhoods south of I-30 were advocates for a more holistic Deep Ellum then both things could feed on each other in recovery efforts. At the moment we still have an entertainment based advocacy that doesn't work as well as 6th street in Austin by comparison.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 05 Aug 2017 19:00

Stillwater Capital Tees Up a Multifamily Project in Deep Ellum

http://dallas.towers.net/2017/08/05/sti ... eep-ellum/

(Steve Brown could learn a thing or two from the writer of this article, Adolfo Pesquera.)

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 05 Aug 2017 19:39

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Stillwater Capital Tees Up a Multifamily Project in Deep Ellum

http://dallas.towers.net/2017/08/05/sti ... eep-ellum/

(Steve Brown could learn a thing or two from the writer of this article, Adolfo Pesquera.)


$34 million for 336 units, so that works out to about $101,000 in construction costs per unit. Does that sound about right to people in the construction industry? Is land cost included? Is that really all it costs to build this 5 floor stick built units? I've seen similar costs for other projects. No wonder they are building these everywhere with the rents they're able to charge for a $101k unit. I wonder if any of these were built as condos, if they could deliver the units for around $175-200k. That's a piece of the market that is completely unserved.

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I45Tex
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby I45Tex » 06 Aug 2017 08:12

Occupiable shell space is one possibility, allowing owners to invest further to partition and customize when they choose:

https://thespaces.com/2017/04/26/naked-house-offers-ultra-minimal-london-homes-for-as-little-as-150k/

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby willyk » 16 Aug 2017 21:48

Deep Ellum isn't just a place anymore...it's a destination

(No cynicism intended. This is the inflection point. Get ready for a river of OOT Money.)

Jack White-backed concept to open new HQ, flagship store in Deep Ellum

"Even though our customers tend to be way up north, at the end of the day we wanted to be in a destination," he added. "Deep Ellum is the place to be for that."

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2017/08/16/batters-up-baseball-manufacturer-to-open-new-hq.html

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 17 Aug 2017 12:21

Deep Ellum and Cedars are huge opportunities for Dallas to create districts that will draw tourist dollars. I've said it before, but Deep Ellum is HOT on weekend nights. We need some hotels (and residential) there to continue the momentum. The people staying there will help the restaurants and bars bring in more daytime dollars, which I think they need. Cedars is doing well on the hotel, residential, and entertainment sides. It just needs to scale up what it's been doing.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 17 Aug 2017 12:28

Matt777 wrote:Deep Ellum and Cedars are huge opportunities for Dallas to create districts that will draw tourist dollars. I've said it before, but Deep Ellum is HOT on weekend nights. We need some hotels (and residential) there to continue the momentum. The people staying there will help the restaurants and bars bring in more daytime dollars, which I think they need. Cedars is doing well on the hotel, residential, and entertainment sides. It just needs to scale up what it's been doing.


I fully agree, get some residential and hotel life in Deep Ellum. The Cedars is just a little slow on getting all those things coagulated in a good way so that people have walkable streets worth walking around. It still seems a little special event based down there to me.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 17 Aug 2017 12:37

Late night hours for Deep Ellum (at least) bars, clubs, shops and restaurants should not face a difficult regulatory process. If anything, the city should be working with others to craft State Level SUP so a handful can serve drinks 24-7.

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby willyk » 17 Aug 2017 22:03

Wythe Hotel, Brooklyn done in a converted textile factory. Why not DE?

http://blondetigers.com/hotel-life-brooklyn/

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 18 Aug 2017 00:08

willyk wrote:Wythe Hotel, Brooklyn done in a converted textile factory. Why not DE?

http://blondetigers.com/hotel-life-brooklyn/


Something that looks like that would be a perfect fit for Deep Ellum, even if it was new construction replacing a surface lot.

Also, does anybody have any news on the hostel that was supposed to be opening in DE?

-

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jrd1964
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby jrd1964 » 18 Aug 2017 04:02

cowboyeagle05 wrote:400 South Hall is because of property consolidation is easier when you don't have to do any. That property is one big one and the thing I see from developers the most is not adding steps and it seems like that having to join parcels together is a big process. Personally, I don't understand enough about that part to know why but I have seen time and time again, developers skip buying a group of properties in a better location to buy an already large enough tract of land further away.

The biggest land play will be the from the city. That large swath of land they control next to I-30 at the edge of Deep Ellum near 400 S. Hall is the perfect piece for some Trammel Crow/KDC/Perot to swoop in and build new construction office, residential and retail without dealing with preservation of older buildings like the core of Deep Ellum. It contains a lot of city offices that will need to be moved but all they have to do is move some of those things closer to South Dallas promising they are bringing economic activity to a depressed area with the relocation of a new city facility etc. The price for selling off that property for economic development will be worth it.

city-facilities.png


I was kind of surprised when all of that didn't get moved to the Cedars along with the PD HQ; I guess there wasn't enough space/land for other stuff at the time.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby buildingswithlegs » 18 Aug 2017 20:28

willyk wrote:Wythe Hotel, Brooklyn done in a converted textile factory. Why not DE?

http://blondetigers.com/hotel-life-brooklyn/


the Wythe hotel looks like it would fit in deep ellum but it is a very expensive and classy joint... i can't imagine the market in Deep Ellum has demand for something so high class (no offense intended) but would love to be wrong

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby ContriveDallasite » 19 Aug 2017 15:22

buildingswithlegs wrote:
willyk wrote:Wythe Hotel, Brooklyn done in a converted textile factory. Why not DE?

http://blondetigers.com/hotel-life-brooklyn/


the Wythe hotel looks like it would fit in deep ellum but it is a very expensive and classy joint... i can't imagine the market in Deep Ellum has demand for something so high class (no offense intended) but would love to be wrong


I hope I am not the only one in the forum who feels this way. But I hope Deep Ellum stays unclassy.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Aug 2017 10:30

Don't worry with the way the crowd is going in recent months a lack of class is definitely back in Deep Ellum despite the businesses best efforts to keep the bad behavior at bay.

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dd_dweller
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dd_dweller » 31 Aug 2017 11:38

https://dallas.eater.com/2016/8/31/1272 ... gh-acheson

I haven't seen an update on this in awhile. Anyone have any news or updates regarding this?

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 13 Sep 2017 12:42

Deep Ellum's Latest Addition Has a Massive Rooftop Patio and 3 Dining Experiences

Deep Ellum's newest restaurant dining and drinking complex offers three separate experiences to keep them entertained. You could spend an entire day here moving from space to space. Harlowe MXM's first floor offers a sit-down, fancier experience complete with a luxe, industrial-chic-with-pops-of-greenery feel. Harlowe MXM's rooftop patio is Deep Ellum's newest rooftop experience, complete with communal tables, plenty of sofas, lovely frozen drinks, a large bar with plenty of taps and, of course, a sprawling view of the Dallas skyline. Lastly, cocktail bar Trick Pony gives diners a chance to be drunk and delighted.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/restauran ... um-9742126

This place looks rather large, but looks like it has a great rooftop. This is another spot I'd consider doesn't exactly fit in with the "Deep Ellum vibe", but I'm fine with it. I think that ship sailed a while ago, and I guess I wasn't too attached to the old Deep Ellum anyway.

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R1070
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby R1070 » 13 Sep 2017 21:04

Been to this and it is awesome!

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gshelton91
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby gshelton91 » 18 Sep 2017 09:47

Went to Harlowe this past Saturday night... Food is very interesting just had some appetizers french fries were amazing. The build out of the space is really amazing... first class design and materials. Would love to see this done with more of Deep Ellum it could really ground the neighborhood for the future.

I love a lot of the new businesses in Deep Ellum but they were more like DIY network shows this is more like "This old House"

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 Sep 2017 09:51

Whatever happened to hostel that was coming? That's something that is severely lacking in Dallas.

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muncien
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby muncien » 18 Sep 2017 10:09

gshelton91 wrote:Went to Harlowe this past Saturday night... Food is very interesting just had some appetizers french fries were amazing. The build out of the space is really amazing... first class design and materials. Would love to see this done with more of Deep Ellum it could really ground the neighborhood for the future.

I love a lot of the new businesses in Deep Ellum but they were more like DIY network shows this is more like "This old House"


No doubt... I went there on Friday night. Fantastic place(s). The burger and lobster roll were excellent. This little series of buildings has quite the potential. DE was packed, but I was a little surprised this particular area didn't have more activity. I did notice that the parking situation was a bit problematic. The Harlowe rooftop gave a good perspective of this particular problem, as you could see cars darting in and out of lot after lot with nowhere to go. Curious what direction this will go in the future.

Based on the nature of Deep Ellum, it's probably better that folks are encouraged to find other means of transportation.


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