Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Deep Ellum 1.0

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 Aug 2018 08:56

They are a neighborhood brand that seems like a second location better fit would have been in a more neighborhood-like setting rather than a neighborhood/entertainment district. Sure Deep Ellum has a dedicated bunch of actual residents but it seems like Oak Lawn, Greenville, Bishop Arts even would have been a better spot to catch those walk-up resident types. They aren't a hipster brand that can just open in every cool new spot in Texas and absorb a new customer base. They have to romanticise the neighborhood for their flavor of the local spot of down-home cool treats and food.

Steel City they ain't.

DPatel304
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 11 Sep 2018 16:36

Funky winery from Denver uncorks tap room for Dallas' Deep Ellum
Deep Ellum is in line to get something the bustling Dallas neighborhood does not yet have: a wine bar.

More specifically, it will be home to an urban winery and taproom called The Infinite Monkey Theorem from a Denver winemaker of the same name.

Taproom director David Goergen confirms that the wine bar will open at 2816 Main St., with a date tentatively set for 2019. It'll be the fourth wine bar for the growing concept.

http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... eep-ellum/

I've had this wine before in Austin. I know next to nothing about wine, so I can't really speak on the quality of the wine, but I like that they are trying to make wine more approachable for the casual drinker. Personally, I'm fine drinking bottled wine the way people have been doing since forever, but I think there is a huge untapped market for some more 'casual/party/cool' wine. I'm not saying this company will be the one that makes wine cool, but I like that they are trying, and I like that they are locating in Deep Ellum which makes it feel like Deep Ellum could be one of the earlier adopters of this new trend of cool wine.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Warrior2015 » 26 Sep 2018 15:08

Looks like the punch bowl social opening has been pushed back to Feb 2019 now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dallas.eat ... ruary-2019

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 27 Sep 2018 09:02

Well, get ready TX/OU crowd. People will find Uptown severely lacking in the party scene this time around and Deep Ellum will be overwhelmed.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 27 Sep 2018 09:20

^as it should be....

As some of the city's institutions and scenes settle into a more natural rhythm, Fair Park will reign supreme as an organized entertainment destination, CBD area will double as the preferred overnight accommodation setting for business and pleasure travelers to the area, and Deep Ellum will elevate to the continental level of music and art entertainment destinations. Maybe not a red-light district, but certainly a Dallas-Texas sytled mixture of Sunset Strip, Beale Street, South Beach, French Quarter, Village whatever.... safe enough for suburban excursionists, sketchy enough for experimentation and safe for every adult thanks to a well defined policing objective to protect nightlife participants.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 27 Sep 2018 10:39

tamtagon wrote:^as it should be....

As some of the city's institutions and scenes settle into a more natural rhythm, Fair Park will reign supreme as an organized entertainment destination, CBD area will double as the preferred overnight accommodation setting for business and pleasure travelers to the area, and Deep Ellum will elevate to the continental level of music and art entertainment destinations. Maybe not a red-light district, but certainly a Dallas-Texas sytled mixture of Sunset Strip, Beale Street, South Beach, French Quarter, Village whatever.... safe enough for suburban excursionists, sketchy enough for experimentation and safe for every adult thanks to a well defined policing objective to protect nightlife participants.


Deep Ellum is also in a perfect and more convenient location for fairgoers than Uptown. Hopefully one day, Expo Park will have a more natural connection with Deep Ellum.

DPatel304
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 27 Sep 2018 11:39

mcrdal15 wrote:Deep Ellum is also in a perfect and more convenient location for fairgoers than Uptown. Hopefully one day, Expo Park will have a more natural connection with Deep Ellum.


Honestly, we could make this happen next year. Yes, the walk isn't great, but if it's for a one time event with tons of people, would it really be that hard to block off one of the streets from Fair Park to Deep Ellum, and maybe put some stalls or something to do along the way.

Exposition area is a fine place for people to walk, and, from there, it's only a weird half a mile stretch until you hit Cold Beer Company, Double Wide, Sandbar Cantina, and Bowls & Tacos. That's kinda the half way point, so, from there, it's another half a mile down Main Street which will get you to the heart of Deep Ellum.

Just put up some pop-up establishments along the way on game day, and I think it would work well enough for people going to the games.

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dallaz
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dallaz » 27 Sep 2018 11:50

Baker's Ribs is closing for a bank in Deep Ellum, as 'wildcatters' of old make way for boomtown

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... y-boomtown

Joe Duncan emailed this week with a simple enough request. "If you have the opportunity to let our long time friends and customers know we are leaving Deep Ellum at the end of September it would be nice," wrote the man who opened Baker's Ribs during the presidency of the first George Bush. Long story short, he wrote, it was just a "good business opportunity" to sell out, close up and move on.

"I love the neighborhood," Duncan signed off, "and wish everyone continued luck with yet another transformation."

By which he means: Come next spring, give or take, a bank will replace the Main Street barbecue eatery -- the homegrown Texas Brand Bank, which just planted a branch in the Cedars. It's so tempting to cry foul -- oh, God, another hole in the soul of Deep Ellum. But I'm over it.

At least it's not a parking lot. Or another (insert expletive here) CVS. Or one more shiny high-rise towering over single-story storefronts built to last. Or a longtime artists' loft being cleared of its current occupants to make way for shops, offices and eateries.

"Next thing you know, we'll have another West End on our hands," Duncan said, laughing, when I got him on the phone Wednesday to talk about his imminent departure. "But I still like the neighborhood."

The pitmaster was in Wilmington, N.C., as part of Operation BBQ Relief, feeding folks displaced by Hurricane Florence. He gets back Saturday. Baker's, which moved from Commerce Street to Main six years ago, closes the next day.

"I guess it's kind of a changing of the guard, so to speak," he said. "It's a big change to think about. Maybe the neighborhood will be better than ever. I hope so. I'm happy for all those folks who wanna get in there and do it."

I think by now we're way past Deep Ellum obits; the late Barry Annino told us, 11 years ago, "Deep Ellum as everyone knew it is over." Yes, I'll miss Baker's -- must have eaten there once a week in my early 20s, when I had the good fortune of chronicling a nascent music community that had sprung up in a neighborhood my family helped build. Haven't been there in five, six years, but, sure, I remember when Baker's opened in 1990, originally at 2724 Commerce St. -- the 90-year-old brick storefront decorated with the painted pink pig that's now serving Tanoshii Ramen.

That was during Deep Ellum's first or 93rd rebirth, guess it depends on your perspective. Wasn't much around then -- Adair's, Club Clearview, Crescent City Cafe, Club Dada, the Art Bar, Deep Ellum Cafe and a few other seedlings about to sprout. Angry Dog and Trees opened the same year.

But this is now the Deep Ellum of The Epic, of new construction along Canton Street meant to look old and "appropriately gritty for Deep Ellum," of reinvestment and reinvention. Its blank spaces have been filled in by a carousel of eateries, a rock star's baseball-bat outlet, places that sell fancy olive oils and smelly candles and funny socks, and endless bars and music venues. Its forever-cycle of boom-and-bust has come to an end; it's Williamsburg if it were a theme park, said my visiting cousin after we spent a recent crowded-sidewalk Saturday ducking into every open door down there.

This week I called Amanda Austin, owner of the Dallas Comedy House, to see how she felt about being next door to a bank. She's neck-deep in her own tussle over the future of Deep Ellum: Her newish out-of-town landlords, owners of Terry Black's Barbecue in Austin, have made it clear they want to do barbecue in the comedy club once her lease is up. About that situation she has no comment, for now.

But Austin said she's OK with getting a Texas Brand Bank, especially since it's homegrown and "they seem like they want to engage with the community, and it would be nice to use a local bank the way we used to use local banks," for, oh, investing in small businesses and putting money back into the neighborhood.

That's the plan, president William Lowe told me this week when explaining why they were going into the Cedars and Deep Ellum, banking deserts.

"There are a lot of restaurants down there, but not any banks," Lowe said. "Our focus has been generally small-business and real estate lending, and we think both Deep Ellum and the Cedars are naturals for those types of businesses."

Madison Partners, the real estate company that owns and leases much of Deep Ellum and Lower Greenville, closed on the Baker's building in June. Madison's Jon Hetzel told Duncan he could stay as long as he wanted on a long-term lease. But no. He's 68 and still has a few other locations to operate, along with a thriving fried-pie business to oversee.

Duncan said business was still good -- even after Pecan Lodge opened down the street. But he sounded nostalgic, too, for the Deep Ellum in which he and the other "wildcatters," as he likes to call them, roamed free three decades ago.

"Back then, everyone was barely able to get their business open," he said. "That was part of the fun of it -- the struggle."

That's what I tell myself now when I struggle to park down there. That's part of the fun of Deep Ellum.

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 27 Sep 2018 12:40

Geez okay, but the bank better not be tearing down the building and sure as hell better not be putting in a bank drive thru.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Sep 2018 13:42

There's already a New Texas Based Bank on Gaston...So whatever. This better not year down the Baker's building.

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R1070
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby R1070 » 27 Sep 2018 20:45

Oh, I'm sure something will be torn down to make way for a drive-thru. I mean, this is Dallas after all.

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dzh
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dzh » 28 Sep 2018 07:22

dallaz wrote:Baker's Ribs is closing for a bank in Deep Ellum, as 'wildcatters' of old make way for boomtown

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... y-boomtown

Joe Duncan emailed this week with a simple enough request. "If you have the opportunity to let our long time friends and customers know we are leaving Deep Ellum at the end of September it would be nice," wrote the man who opened Baker's Ribs during the presidency of the first George Bush. Long story short, he wrote, it was just a "good business opportunity" to sell out, close up and move on.

"I love the neighborhood," Duncan signed off, "and wish everyone continued luck with yet another transformation."

By which he means: Come next spring, give or take, a bank will replace the Main Street barbecue eatery -- the homegrown Texas Brand Bank, which just planted a branch in the Cedars. It's so tempting to cry foul -- oh, God, another hole in the soul of Deep Ellum. But I'm over it.

At least it's not a parking lot. Or another (insert expletive here) CVS. Or one more shiny high-rise towering over single-story storefronts built to last. Or a longtime artists' loft being cleared of its current occupants to make way for shops, offices and eateries.

"Next thing you know, we'll have another West End on our hands," Duncan said, laughing, when I got him on the phone Wednesday to talk about his imminent departure. "But I still like the neighborhood."

The pitmaster was in Wilmington, N.C., as part of Operation BBQ Relief, feeding folks displaced by Hurricane Florence. He gets back Saturday. Baker's, which moved from Commerce Street to Main six years ago, closes the next day.

"I guess it's kind of a changing of the guard, so to speak," he said. "It's a big change to think about. Maybe the neighborhood will be better than ever. I hope so. I'm happy for all those folks who wanna get in there and do it."

I think by now we're way past Deep Ellum obits; the late Barry Annino told us, 11 years ago, "Deep Ellum as everyone knew it is over." Yes, I'll miss Baker's -- must have eaten there once a week in my early 20s, when I had the good fortune of chronicling a nascent music community that had sprung up in a neighborhood my family helped build. Haven't been there in five, six years, but, sure, I remember when Baker's opened in 1990, originally at 2724 Commerce St. -- the 90-year-old brick storefront decorated with the painted pink pig that's now serving Tanoshii Ramen.

That was during Deep Ellum's first or 93rd rebirth, guess it depends on your perspective. Wasn't much around then -- Adair's, Club Clearview, Crescent City Cafe, Club Dada, the Art Bar, Deep Ellum Cafe and a few other seedlings about to sprout. Angry Dog and Trees opened the same year.

But this is now the Deep Ellum of The Epic, of new construction along Canton Street meant to look old and "appropriately gritty for Deep Ellum," of reinvestment and reinvention. Its blank spaces have been filled in by a carousel of eateries, a rock star's baseball-bat outlet, places that sell fancy olive oils and smelly candles and funny socks, and endless bars and music venues. Its forever-cycle of boom-and-bust has come to an end; it's Williamsburg if it were a theme park, said my visiting cousin after we spent a recent crowded-sidewalk Saturday ducking into every open door down there.

This week I called Amanda Austin, owner of the Dallas Comedy House, to see how she felt about being next door to a bank. She's neck-deep in her own tussle over the future of Deep Ellum: Her newish out-of-town landlords, owners of Terry Black's Barbecue in Austin, have made it clear they want to do barbecue in the comedy club once her lease is up. About that situation she has no comment, for now.

But Austin said she's OK with getting a Texas Brand Bank, especially since it's homegrown and "they seem like they want to engage with the community, and it would be nice to use a local bank the way we used to use local banks," for, oh, investing in small businesses and putting money back into the neighborhood.

That's the plan, president William Lowe told me this week when explaining why they were going into the Cedars and Deep Ellum, banking deserts.

"There are a lot of restaurants down there, but not any banks," Lowe said. "Our focus has been generally small-business and real estate lending, and we think both Deep Ellum and the Cedars are naturals for those types of businesses."

Madison Partners, the real estate company that owns and leases much of Deep Ellum and Lower Greenville, closed on the Baker's building in June. Madison's Jon Hetzel told Duncan he could stay as long as he wanted on a long-term lease. But no. He's 68 and still has a few other locations to operate, along with a thriving fried-pie business to oversee.

Duncan said business was still good -- even after Pecan Lodge opened down the street. But he sounded nostalgic, too, for the Deep Ellum in which he and the other "wildcatters," as he likes to call them, roamed free three decades ago.

"Back then, everyone was barely able to get their business open," he said. "That was part of the fun of it -- the struggle."

That's what I tell myself now when I struggle to park down there. That's part of the fun of Deep Ellum.


So Terry Black's will open up where the Comedy House is next year? Terry's is a pretty popular spot in Austin

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 28 Sep 2018 09:31

dzh wrote:
So Terry Black's will open up where the Comedy House is next year? Terry's is a pretty popular spot in Austin


That has been a whole issue since Spring. Terry Black's bought the building along with the existing lease to Dallas Comedy House, and then has been trying every trick under the sun to intimidate and threaten DCH to end their lease early. It's pretty gross what they're doing, actually, and I know that I for one will NOT patronize them. Nobody who cares about Dallas and our local culture should either, with the tactics they've taken. Do NOT Austin my Dallas.

Read more here:
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... deep-ellum

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 28 Sep 2018 11:11

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:There's already a New Texas Based Bank on Gaston...So whatever. This better not year down the Baker's building.


This is Texas Brand Bank. Not the same.

Ironically, one block away the NE corner of Hall and Elm was a drive-thru for many years for one of the big downtown banks.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 28 Sep 2018 11:14

Matt777 wrote:That has been a whole issue since Spring. Terry Black's bought the building along with the existing lease to Dallas Comedy House, and then has been trying every trick under the sun to intimidate and threaten DCH to end their lease early. It's pretty gross what they're doing, actually, and I know that I for one will NOT patronize them. Nobody who cares about Dallas and our local culture should either, with the tactics they've taken. Do NOT Austin my Dallas.


Amen.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 28 Sep 2018 11:19

Matt777 wrote:Geez okay, but the bank better not be tearing down the building and sure as hell better not be putting in a bank drive thru.

It's a small property without much parking. I'm wondering if they're buying an adjacent property, too. They're going to have to have a drive thru somewhere to be competitive.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby lakewoodhobo » 28 Sep 2018 11:39

It looks like the same company owns the auto supply building adjacent to Baker's Ribs, so that may give them some room to work with if they demolish that one. Still, a bank with a drive-thru and giant parking lot is not what I'd like to see in front of the Case Building.

Screen Shot 2018-09-28 at 11.34.04 AM.jpg
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mdg109
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby mdg109 » 28 Sep 2018 12:15

The Cedars location looks pretty bad. Definitely a downgrade for this part of DE.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb ... _8oUv_SecB

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The_Overdog
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby The_Overdog » 28 Sep 2018 13:39

I think what they did (add a mid-grade EIFS front on an existing windowless ugly building) is just fine. They didn't demolish anything and if it's successful it'll get better looking in time.

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 28 Sep 2018 15:13

mdg109 wrote:The Cedars location looks pretty bad. Definitely a downgrade for this part of DE.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb ... _8oUv_SecB


That looks really bad. I'm glad this means that they might keep the existing building in Deep Ellum and adapt it to their needs, but they need to hire a good designer and devote an appropriate reno budget or just don't do it at all. That seriously looks like they did not hire a designer and someone who works there just dictated a design to a low cost construction crew like "4 columns here, and a triangle."

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 28 Sep 2018 15:19

Matt777 wrote:
mdg109 wrote:The Cedars location looks pretty bad. Definitely a downgrade for this part of DE.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb ... _8oUv_SecB


That looks really bad. I'm glad this means that they might keep the existing building in Deep Ellum and adapt it to their needs, but they need to hire a good designer and devote an appropriate reno budget or just don't do it at all. That seriously looks like they did not hire a designer and someone who works there just dictated a design to a low cost construction crew like "4 columns here, and a triangle."



But the Greek facade makes it look more "bankery"

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NdoorTX
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby NdoorTX » 28 Sep 2018 15:35

^ seriously crap-tastic

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dallaz
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Re: Baylor Scott & White Admin Complex

Postby dallaz » 01 Oct 2018 12:51

Hannibal Lecter wrote:This is going to be big. 600k square feet.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... m-district

By comparison, the office tower at the Epic is only 250k SF.

Baylor Scott and White Health and Memorial Hermann Health System plan to merge. I wonder what effect it will have on this project?


https://www.dallasnews.com/business/hea ... plan-merge

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 Oct 2018 14:24

Hmm, so their CEO will be the new guy in charge of the combined system. I wonder who will get the HQ. Mind you in some form this kinda agrees with the whole Houston to Dallas bullet train concept that companies can utilize the highspeed train to manage companies like this easier. The CEO could ride a train to Dallas every day if he needed to with some serious dependability of a high-speed train.

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 01 Oct 2018 16:13

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Hmm, so their CEO will be the new guy in charge of the combined system. I wonder who will get the HQ. Mind you in some form this kinda agrees with the whole Houston to Dallas bullet train concept that companies can utilize the highspeed train to manage companies like this easier. The CEO could ride a train to Dallas every day if he needed to with some serious dependability of a high-speed train.


I read it as the Baylor SW CEO will take over as CEO, and the Memorial Hermann CEO will oversee Houston operations for now. So, if they consolidate HQs it seems like it would be in Dallas where the new org CEO is.

DPatel304
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 02 Oct 2018 15:00

The Bottled Blonde building is listed for sale here. I have no idea if this means anything, or if it is significant, but figured I would post here regardless:
http://www.loopnet.com/for-sale/?sk=473 ... _kyJ9lnl-e

The listing was created on 9/12/2018 and the listing price is $12.6 million.

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dallaz
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dallaz » 04 Oct 2018 12:19

Really good news story about Deep Ellum

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcdfw ... ml%3famp=y

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Cord1936
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Cord1936 » 04 Oct 2018 22:09

Image

New Name and Headquarters For Baylor Scott and White, Memorial Hermann?
10/4/2018| by Will Maddox| D CEO Healthcare

The short answers to those questions are 1) Yes, there will be a new name, but they don’t know what it will be just yet, and 2) There are no plans for a new combined headquarters.

Dallas’s Baylor Scott and White and Houston-based Memorial Hermann have signed a letter of intent to merge, combining the two health networks into one system that will span Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Temple, accounting for $14.4 billion in revenue, according to Modern Healthcare.
...
According to ECN, the merger makes the new company one of the five largest nonprofit health systems in the country.

When asked if the merger would result in a new headquarters, they repeated the answer given in the press release, that there will be executive support staff in Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Temple.
...
Article: https://healthcare.dmagazine.com/2018/10/04/new-name-and-headquarters-for-baylor-scott-and-white-memorial-hermann/?utm_campaign=Newsletter%20-%20D%20CEO&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=66448379&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--9c1g-lLXdl-dnE95464GGghPjLraSKhqcyrvzkli44aCeOmboWeKZHlBhqDVh8n_jIZP96UMZUXtwPRaG4Y_cZ0Eicg&_hsmi=66448379

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maconahey
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby maconahey » 30 Oct 2018 10:45

Webcam from KDC's site for Baylor Scott and White's new admin building

https://app.oxblue.com/open/baylorscott/whitehealth

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dallaz
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dallaz » 30 Oct 2018 11:05

No renderings as of yet?

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dallaz
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby dallaz » 01 Nov 2018 15:54

Construction starts on Baylor Scott & White's new East Dallas office project

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ce-project

Healthcare giant Baylor Scott & White has broken ground on its new head office center on the edge of Deep Ellum in Dallas.

The 300,000-square-foot, $70 million office campus is being built in the 3700 block of Elm Street just east of downtown Dallas.

Hundreds of Baylor administrative employees who now work in downtown Dallas and in other locations will be consolidated into the new building when it opens in 2020.

Dallas developer KDC is building the Baylor project, which includes a large parking garage.

The planned Deep Ellum development site site is adjacent to DART's commuter rail line and is just blocks from new apartment and retail construction underway in the neighborhood.

Baylor has said that it plans to relocate people now working in five leased office spaces to the Elm Street building that will "provide new opportunities for our colleagues to work more collaboratively."

Why Birthday Celebrations Are so Powerful For Children in Need
The largest block of office workers is coming from downtown Dallas' Bryan Tower where Baylor is the largest tenant.

KDC is already building a 250,000-square-foot office tower in Deep Ellum that is part of the Epic development on Elm at Good-Latimer Expressway.

The developer has constructed corporate office campuses for clients including State Farm Insurance, Toyota, JPMorgan Chase, Liberty Mutual Insurance and Pioneer Natural Resources.

DPatel304
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 03 Nov 2018 15:08

Dallas Comedy House Is Moving Early 2019
In roughly six months, moving trucks will be loaded with the tables, costumes and autographed pictures that made up Dallas Comedy House as it moves away from its second location in Deep Ellum. The trucks won’t be driving far however, as they need to go only one street over, to 3036 Elm Street to a building directly behind DCH’s current space.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/arts/dal ... M_UAuVwZKY

Glad to hear they are sticking around in Deep Ellum. There's still plenty of room for growth in the area, so no need for places to be 'pushed out' at this stage.

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R1070
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby R1070 » 04 Nov 2018 22:29

Great news!

DPatel304
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 05 Nov 2018 09:58

Deep Ellum Bar and Restaurant IdleRye Calls It Quits
"I think people ... assume that the success of the bottle service dance clubs means that everyone in Deep Ellum is rolling in money," BrainDead Brewing owner Sam Wynne posted on Facebook in an oft-shared thread about the restaurant's closure. "Let me tell you: I know more operators that aren’t doing well down here than ones that are. People see Deep Ellum on Saturday and they avoid it the rest of the week. It’s so quiet and neighborhood oriented down here during the week. You gotta go check out all the awesome things and think about how you spend your money."

https://www.dallasobserver.com/restaura ... dyaRXoI9Es

This paragraph is a little concerning to me, and it also doesn't surprise me. I have friends out in the 'burbs who still feel this way about Uptown, because all they have done it come to the worst bars in Uptown on a Fri/Sat night and assume that the whole neighborhood is filled with those types of people all the time.

I'm seeing the same perception about Deep Ellum too, and there doesn't seem to be enough residential just yet to support the local businesses. Hopefully that changes, though.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby The_Overdog » 05 Nov 2018 10:29

That's why all these places need to turn into legitimate neighborhoods, which probably means big boxy apartments for now, instead of 'party destinations' because you can't expect people from the 'burbs to come down on a random Tuesday and support your local businesses.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 05 Nov 2018 11:57

The_Overdog wrote:That's why all these places need to turn into legitimate neighborhoods, which probably means big boxy apartments for now, instead of 'party destinations' because you can't expect people from the 'burbs to come down on a random Tuesday and support your local businesses.


Not only that but it also needs more weekday visitor traffic from those staying in Downtown for conferences or conventions. I feel like it doesn't get heavily promoted enough.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 05 Nov 2018 16:41

It comes down to a deeply embedded culture in Dallas that has existed for decades that constantly ignores Deep Ellum. Even now the conventioneer's bureau spends more effort trying to coerce people to Bishop Arts than they do to Deep Ellum. I am not saying the Bishop Arts isn't a jewel we shouldn't push. The one thing that is nice about the Bishop Arts is it doesn't have the party time problem like Uptown, Deep Ellum and previously Lowest Greenville. I don't think its necessarily an active decision to ignore Deep Ellum by City Hall but I just think for decades they are used to not including Deep Ellum so it tends to just be a bullet point and not get the attention it deserves.

I do agree it needs more rooftops to hard set the neighborhood feel. Look at what's around it though. To the north, it has rooftops of Old East Dallas a mixture of apartments, townhomes, and homes. On the south side, you have a massive Berlin wall that is I-30 and then it's not much in terms of economic vitality. The same problem on the East end quiet and it's sadly where the Deep Ellum activity kinda drops off on its way to another forgotten city landmark Fair Park. To the West though is relatively active CBD but not the center of the Dallas universe despite the height of the buildings. The CBD is not the commercial office center of Dallas let alone DFW. It's the southern edge of economic activity in Dallas and the closer you move east away from Neiman Marcus/Main Street Gardens it drops off into a spaghetti of freeway highspeed roadways meant for sending people home at 5 pm.

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby willyk » 07 Nov 2018 04:32

The new Baylor building, Epic complex and the other apartments under construction will help in the near term. There should be an appetite for plenty more residential with everything the neighborhood has to offer.

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Matt777
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Matt777 » 07 Nov 2018 09:21

The large city owned property on the southside of Deep Ellum needs to have the streets re-grid, then turned into a mid and high rise residential and hotel "battery" to power Deep Ellum. Some office buildings wouldn't hurt either. Just as long as everything is on the perimeter of DE and not right in the center.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 07 Nov 2018 11:16

The rush hour traffic around the new Baylor building is going to be interesting. Thousands of people trying to get in or out of a building at the same time with two-lane streets on just two sides. No turn lanes and no signal lights, just a single 4-way stop. Oh, and a DART rail crossing blocking one of those streets every few minutes. Except when it gets stuck in the down position -- which happens frequently. :-)

(Hopefully they've thought of this and are at least planning traffic signals on Washington at Elm and Main. Otherwise, may God have mercy on their souls.)

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 07 Nov 2018 11:38

Peak-Haskell should have been a transportation priority a decade ago, and now it's edging toward the critical point -- should the neighborhood be protected from ridiculously inadequate peak commuter infrastructure. Central and I-30 are the clear feeders to the the potent employment and educational center.

Peak-Haskell should be the ground-breaking transportation project worthy of all the effort (on both sides) put into the Trinity River Park Tolled-Highway. DART should already be into the planning light rail between Cityplace and Fair Park. The busiest intersections along the corridor should be rebuilt to allow peak-commuter pass-thru that does not stress the neighborhood.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 07 Nov 2018 11:41

The right zoning would allow tens of thousands more people to live in East Dallas, while allowing "Deep Ellum" to evolve into a hemispheric entertainment destination.
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eburress
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby eburress » 07 Nov 2018 12:20

tamtagon wrote:Peak-Haskell should have been a transportation priority a decade ago, and now it's edging toward the critical point -- should the neighborhood be protected from ridiculously inadequate peak commuter infrastructure. Central and I-30 are the clear feeders to the the potent employment and educational center.

Peak-Haskell should be the ground-breaking transportation project worthy of all the effort (on both sides) put into the Trinity River Park Tolled-Highway. DART should already be into the planning light rail between Cityplace and Fair Park. The busiest intersections along the corridor should be rebuilt to allow peak-commuter pass-thru that does not stress the neighborhood.


Haskell Ave was a transportation priority around 30 years ago. At the time it was intended to be a loop around Downtown, broadening Downtown's boundaries. The city was unable to relocate certain structures, including a church, and so the project died, ending work on the road just east of Central at Lemmon Ave. The way Haskell appears next to Cityplace now was how the whole thing was supposed to look, and it was intended to extend all the way to Fair Park, the Cedars, and beyond.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby tamtagon » 07 Nov 2018 12:38

^I lived in (what once again is called) Peak's Suburban Addition when that attempt to revamp the Peak-Haskell Corridor was falling into oblivion. The transportation deal never seems to gain enough traction.... in biggest part because the peak-commuter destination has not drawn enough traffic to stay on the radar. (Wouldn't it be fantastic if the Old World Baptist University and Seminary moved east near the First Baptist Academy on Samuel and allowed a contiguous boulevard...?)

It's different now. BSW is transitioning into what may be the country's largest non-profit medical provider, and it's growing. Cityplace has a proposed 3(?) million sq foot office etc complex, TA&M dentist factory is expanding, and it's likely more and more office space will seek an East Dallas constriction site. Fair Park will become the regional attraction it's supposed to be thanks to actual management; the need for efficient trips between Central and I-30 has never been more important.

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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Nov 2018 17:13

Keep in mind the city was proposing to tear out a good section of the expo park neighborhood to build a new Baylor arterial roadway that would connect to I-30. Since then several businesses have opened in that pathway. I wonder if that project is dead or on hold?
Baylor really wanted that project to make access to their hospital more direct route for commuting. I hope it stays dead.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 07 Nov 2018 19:43

It's not going anywhere quickly, but it's not dead.

In a nutshell, just about everyone in Deep Ellum now agrees it would be a bad idea and a waste of money, but it's on the thoroughfare plan, partially funded and partially constructed (Malcolm X to Hall). So it's still on the city's to do list. I think Wilonsky wrote about it a couple years ago, but I can't find that article. IIRC, the transportation department says that it's their job to work on it until someone tells them to stop.

Some stuff I did find:

2009: https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/sne ... rk-7127840

2010 Map: https://www.scribd.com/document/2375071 ... k-Link-Map

2011: https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/whe ... nk-7119794

2012: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/news/20 ... -fair-park

From http://citysecretary.dallascityhall.com ... 7-0367.pdf in 2017:

"The CBD Fair Park Link project is a principle arterial thoroughfare project to connect
Downtown (CBD) to Fair Park by extending the Fair Park Link from Hall Street to IH-30. It
is a 4-lane undivided roadway from Hall Street to Race Street and divided roadway from
Race St to Main Street with an additional conceptual thoroughfare from Main St. to IH
30. The design from Hall Street to the intersection with Elm Street/Exposition Avenue will
include a 14-foot-wide bike trail on the DART side of the alignment. This is new roadway
construction with no existing right-of-way that will require necessary property acquisition
to complete. Funds from the 2006 Bond Program will finance the project’s design and
right-of-way acquisition. The Thoroughfare when completed will be a 5-lane undivided
Roadway transitioning from Hall St. to Elm into a 4-lane divided roadway with
sidewalks. The project also includes Bike lanes from Hall Street connecting to the East
Dallas Veloway Bike Trail near Elm Street. The 2006 Bond Program funded along with
the conceptual design and right-of-way acquisition from Hall Street to IH-30 also funded
the full design and construction funding for the segment from Hall Street to Main
Street. This new roadway which will serve as an arterial connector from the Central
Business District area to Fair Park as well as a connector from lH-30 to Baylor Medical
Campus, Deep Ellum and the Central Business District. The alignment for this
thoroughfare was approved by City Council on December 9, 2009. Additional design
includes a bike trail and landscape improvements that aren’t included in the scope. The
proposed alignment of CBD-Fair Park link from Hall Street to Hickory Street in conjunction
with TXDOT’s improvements to IH-30 will provide a direct arterial link connecting IH-30
to the Baylor University Medical Campus, Deep Ellum, and Wilson Historic District.
Currently the project is supported by 2006 Bond funds ($4,125,929)."


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eburress
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby eburress » 08 Nov 2018 10:15

Oooh, I like that! It's not at all what I expected, but that's a good looking structure. :)

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 08 Nov 2018 14:22

So they're going to use the CBD-Fair Park Link as their front door? I have to assume they've been quietly talking to the city about resurrecting the zombie. Say goodbye to Bowls & Tacos and to half of Exposition Park. I just messaged Sam Wynne to see if he's heard anything.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 08 Nov 2018 15:52

^ I just heard back from Sam Wynne. (For those who don't know him, he owns Brain Dead Brewery and Bowls and Tacos). He said he hasn't heard anything from the city, and he thought the road was dead for another decade.

Maybe Baylor is planning on the road being built as far as Elm?


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