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Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

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Tucy
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Tucy » 21 Jul 2020 10:33

Warrior2015 wrote:
rono3849 wrote:OLIVE.AAA.jpgOlive.B.jpg

Olive.South.jpg

Olive.D.jpgOlive.E.jpg

The Flora & Olive Tower's facade is moving up the building rather quickly. Remarkably, the 39-story tower is actually about the same height on the skyline as the Hall Arts Residences' Tower, which is 30 stories.



Why is it short for 39 stories ?


I don't think Flora & Olive is particularly short. It's just that we're comparing Flora & Olive, a rental building, with Hall Arts Residences, a high-end luxury condo (for-sale) building. Money gets you taller ceilings, among other things.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 22 Jul 2020 10:50

Yeah I don't know what it is in Flora and Olive specifically but most new units I have been in the standard is 10-11' ceilings when it comes to the usual urban donut stuff developers have been building in Dallas. I am sure there are plenty of units like ground floor ones that break that rule on some properties. I have 14 ft ceilings in my ground floor unit in a new construction built in 2016. Everything else above me in the building is 11 ft.

Also where are Hall Arts amenities spaces? Pool decks like the W's mid tower are two floors in height so things could adjust by any number of design changes. While a "luxury" apartment building like Flora & Olive isn't going to stray too much from the standard faire despite what the marketing campaign may argue.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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dalbert
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby dalbert » 03 Aug 2020 14:50

IMG_1705.jpg
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Warrior2015
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Warrior2015 » 03 Aug 2020 15:45

dalbert wrote:IMG_1705.jpg


Dallas has got to have the most deserted urban core out of all major cities. Maybe besides Houston. Nice photo though !

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dallaz
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby dallaz » 03 Aug 2020 15:57

^^^COVID is playing a major part and the heat doesn’t make it any better.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Warrior2015 » 03 Aug 2020 16:07

dallaz wrote:^^^COVID is playing a major part and the heat doesn’t make it any better.

It really hasn't been that hot though. Discovery district has been packed even though its been hot. I think we need more game changer projects like that and a ton of more residents. We need a reason for more people to come down. In austin I've seen the streets packed when its 110 degrees outside.

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clcrash19
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby clcrash19 » 03 Aug 2020 16:37

What else can they do to draw people downtown besides sports venues? Discovery district is a good start but we need more

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby DPatel304 » 03 Aug 2020 16:56

Honestly, I think just more infill is what will fill the streets. The existing pockets of activity really need better cohesiveness, as well.

The biggest 'game changer' we could have for Downtown, IMO, would be another Uber-caliber corporate relocation to Downtown. That would really instill a lot of confidence into the market and likely lead to even more constructio/growth.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Warrior2015 » 03 Aug 2020 17:01

clcrash19 wrote:What else can they do to draw people downtown besides sports venues? Discovery district is a good start but we need more

I think tons of more residents. It sucks having so much competition nearby for office workers such as plano, frisco, etc. Also once covid gets under control, I feel just more hotels, parks, attractions, events, more affordable apartments,venues, street performers, artists on the streets, cafes, etc. We have to implement what's working in some other cities and bring it here. Once the urban core of dallas is vibrant, this will be one of the best places to live in the u.s. The lack of scenery will always be a negative, but this could make up for it.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Warrior2015 » 03 Aug 2020 17:06

clcrash19 wrote:What else can they do to draw people downtown besides sports venues? Discovery district is a good start but we need more

Also once the national and east quarter opens, that will probably help out alot too. Alot of these new projects in dallas nowadays actually overdeliver. Projects actually turn out ALOT nicer than expected in person. That's why I was so happy about Dallas future before covid hit because we were really on a roll with all of the new announcements. Now we are probably going to be delayed a few years.
Last edited by Warrior2015 on 03 Aug 2020 17:08, edited 1 time in total.

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mdg109
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby mdg109 » 03 Aug 2020 17:07

This area has always struggled. I was downtown last night, and even on a Sunday night I was surprised at how many people were just walking around, walking dogs, or on the scooters, all along EMC. The Arts District really doesn't have anything going on right now, so yes, it's pretty desolate.

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dalbert
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby dalbert » 03 Aug 2020 17:11

To be fair, Chase Tower, Trammell Crow, and the like are largely still empty.

I work in Chase Tower, and pre-pandemic foot traffic on Ross Ave was notably up due to Roti, Royal Blue, Southpaws, 400 Gradi, etc. The retail at Flora & Olive will provide a much-needed second artery.

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clcrash19
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby clcrash19 » 03 Aug 2020 17:21

The parks have been a big addition.. weve added main street garden, klyde warren, belo garden and pacific plaza in the last ten years and have harwood, carpenter and west end sqaure coming soon with the KWP expansion.

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R1070
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby R1070 » 03 Aug 2020 21:21

The whole city has been quiet. COVID has been a major reason. Summer is always a bit quieter during the day anyway because of the Sun.

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DFW
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby DFW » 03 Aug 2020 22:10

Actually they’re all under ground in the pedestrian tunnels. Particularly in the summer. The Dallas Pedestrian Network or Dallas Pedway is a system of grade-separated walkways covering thirty-six city blocks of downtown Dallas. The system connects buildings, garages and parks through tunnels and above-ground sky-bridges. Many overlook the tunnels of many shops and eateries It has, because it is never mention In things to do in Dallas to the tourists. A major tourist advertising flaw.

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Jbarn
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Jbarn » 04 Aug 2020 08:49

Speaking of Austin, our downtown has more residents, workers, hotels, museums, performance venues, convention attendees, etc...., so what is it about our downtown that makes the streets so much less vibrant?

I think a great lack of cohesiveness between the various nodes of activity is a major reason, but I also am beginning to think it has a lot to do with the Dallas mindset. The vast majority of folks I know here don’t know what’s downtown, haven’t been there in years, and have no desire to go there. And when you ask them why they don’t go downtown, the common response is “why should I go down there”? And to tell you the truth, I can’t come back with a good response.

The city of Dallas leaders need to get out of the way and let downtown become a real downtown with character, grit, activity, noise, smells, vibrancy, etc...., get rid of the antiquated city codes that charge yearly fees for street awnings, charge annual landscaping fees if you want to put potted plants in front of your establishment, disallows sidewalk sales, street vendors, street performers, allows construction contractors to block sidewalks for months, sometimes years, but makes it hard to set up sidewalk cafes, etc... in other words, stop treating downtown as a sterile Plano office park, and let it become a real center that is befitting of the 9th largest city in America located In the 4th largest metro area in America. If you make it something different and special, maybe folks will want to actually go down there just to hang out.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby DPatel304 » 04 Aug 2020 09:49

Jbarn wrote:Speaking of Austin, our downtown has more residents, workers, hotels, museums, performance venues, convention attendees, etc...., so what is it about our downtown that makes the streets so much less vibrant?

I think a great lack of cohesiveness between the various nodes of activity is a major reason, but I also am beginning to think it has a lot to do with the Dallas mindset. The vast majority of folks I know here don’t know what’s downtown, haven’t been there in years, and have no desire to go there. And when you ask them why they don’t go downtown, the common response is “why should I go down there”? And to tell you the truth, I can’t come back with a good response.

The city of Dallas leaders need to get out of the way and let downtown become a real downtown with character, grit, activity, noise, smells, vibrancy, etc...., get rid of the antiquated city codes that charge yearly fees for street awnings, charge annual landscaping fees if you want to put potted plants in front of your establishment, disallows sidewalk sales, street vendors, street performers, allows construction contractors to block sidewalks for months, sometimes years, but makes it hard to set up sidewalk cafes, etc... in other words, stop treating downtown as a sterile Plano office park, and let it become a real center that is befitting of the 9th largest city in America located In the 4th largest metro area in America. If you make it something different and special, maybe folks will want to actually go down there just to hang out.


Like you said, the lack of cohesiveness is a big one, and Dallas simply has an urban core. In addition to Downtown, you have areas like Uptown, Victory Park, Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, etc.. In the suburbs there is way more competition as well. If you live in Plano, you have Shops at Legacy, Legacy West, Downtown Plano, GrandScape, and The Star not too far from you, so I'm not surprised some people don't go Downtown. Whereas in Austin, you really only have the Domain and the Mueller area.

I still think Dallas can and will get there, but it'll be a much more uphill battle for us considering the factors that both you and I listed.

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citygeek
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby citygeek » 04 Aug 2020 11:25

You've described the problem spot on. Dallas leaders dream of being a 'real' city but their egos and control-freak mindset always gets in the way of as you said, letting it happen.

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dallasbeatsaustin
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby dallasbeatsaustin » 04 Aug 2020 11:40

After living in Austin for a decade, I think these comparisons with downtown Austin idealize the place too much. Much of Austin's downtown is pretty dead most days. In my experience people who live in Austin suburbs who don't work there go downtown no more often than people in Dallas suburbs- hardly ever. North and South Austin neighborhoods have so many parks and green spaces that those are what is far more crowded on a weeknight or regular weekend. Same with Cedar Park, Round Rock, etc. When we tell suburb friends that we like walking around downtown after work/school, they think we are insane. Same as in Dallas.
Up until covid we did go downtown almost everyday because our kid went to school downtown, but the district closed her school (permanently) so we probably won't go much- and we live/work relatively close by.

The new library is an exception of something that Downtown Dallas does not have, but even there most people park in the garage, get books, and leave. The really peopled places, S. Congress, Barton/Zilker, E. 6th/7th, are and UT are not downtown and there is no reason to go downtown if you are strolling in those areas. Most of the new downtown spaces, say the old power plant/new Trader Joe's, are pretty sterile and boring. And the trail on Town Lake is a trail= park, jog, and leave. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy walking around downtown Austin, but I think lots of people experience Austin during festival times and think there are usually lots of people walking around downtown.

In comparison, in normal times recently we probably had more fun at the Perot, aquarium, and Clyde Warren. Perhaps it was just not the regular, but certainly felt vibrant on a weekday compared to Downtown Dallas when my dad worked there in the 90s. Also more people than when we would walk from my kid's old school (Pease) to the new library in Austin.

And comparing say East 6th/7th with Deep Ellum- Ellum seemed more walkable and has more places to sit down and chill when we were there over the holidays.

Finally, comparing to a place we spend the most time just walking for fun in the city center - Moscow- both Austin and Dallas desperately need to close some streets and make pedestrian thoroughfares imo. I know this scared people from the bars in Ellum before, but now would be a good time to try it out.

Regardless- Dallas has a ton of issues and underutilized space (FAIR PARK), but I think it can be way too hard on itself.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby TNWE » 04 Aug 2020 15:30

dallasbeatsaustin wrote:After living in Austin for a decade, I think these comparisons with downtown Austin idealize the place too much. Much of Austin's downtown is pretty dead most days. In my experience people who live in Austin suburbs who don't work there go downtown no more often than people in Dallas suburbs- hardly ever. North and South Austin neighborhoods have so many parks and green spaces that those are what is far more crowded on a weeknight or regular weekend. Same with Cedar Park, Round Rock, etc. When we tell suburb friends that we like walking around downtown after work/school, they think we are insane. Same as in Dallas.

...

Regardless- Dallas has a ton of issues and underutilized space (FAIR PARK), but I think it can be way too hard on itself.


You're absolutely right that Dallas has somewhat unrealistic expectations of what it should be. Someone above mentioned Dallas' failure to market the Pedestrian network to visitors, but for the last decade city leadership and some activists have been fighting to shut the system, or at least sever enough connections as to make it ineffective. They see it as a zero-sum game where every shop or restaurant in the tunnels is one less shop at street level, and think that closing the tunnels will push all of those businesses into street-level storefronts. This of course ignores the fact that many cities (including Chicago, often held up as an example of a "real" urban city) have some variation of the concept and are quite heavily used because of the extreme weather.

When I worked downtown, I'd use the tunnels not just for accessing restaurants in the tunnels, but as a way of traversing large portions of downtown while avoiding the heat/rain to access a place outside the tunnels that I'd otherwise not visit in those conditions. Converting streets to pedestrian/bike only does nothing to address the fundamental truth that Dallas is either hot or storming 80% of the year.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 04 Aug 2020 16:51

Warrior2015 wrote:It sucks having so much competition nearby for office workers such as plano, frisco, etc.


How does that suck? Competition is the best thing for us all. Competition drives everyone to step up their game.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Warrior2015 » 04 Aug 2020 17:17

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
Warrior2015 wrote:It sucks having so much competition nearby for office workers such as plano, frisco, etc.


How does that suck? Competition is the best thing for us all. Competition drives everyone to step up their game.

Competition is fine, but too much of anything can be bad. When we have to compete with Irving,plano, frisco, mckinney, allen, ft worth etc, it will kind of slow down the growth of the core because alot of companies and people etc find those areas attractive as well.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 04 Aug 2020 19:20

TNWE wrote: Converting streets to pedestrian/bike only does nothing to address the fundamental truth that Dallas is either hot or storming 80% of the year.

Hyperbolic much? Dallas has excellent weather for walking outside of day time in the summer and the fact its flat makes ideal for biking. The real problem with Downtown is concrete heat. We need more trees and better pedestrian infrastructure.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby rono3849 » 04 Aug 2020 20:31

A Downtown area has to have a vibe & lots of street action to keep you interested in staying in the area. There's not enough retail anymore. The cafe & restaurant scene was on the way, but COVID-19 derailed the momentum. Some "destination" spots are also needed. Frankly, the city needs to build a destination kind of place or environment that draws people into the area. This is a spark that can light up the district. What it might be is the challenge.

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Pinhi
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Pinhi » 05 Aug 2020 10:55

It's only going to get worse if if these "protests" rioting and looting get worse. These central cities will die and there will be no new construction. Progressive socialism destroys everything it touches and I hope Dallas is wise enough to nip it in the bud.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby MC_ScattCat » 05 Aug 2020 12:43

Pinhi wrote:It's only going to get worse if if these "protests" rioting and looting get worse. These central cities will die and there will be no new construction. Progressive socialism destroys everything it touches and I hope Dallas is wise enough to nip it in the bud.


Calm down and put the pitch fork away.

Back on topic... I am hopeful this type of building will start popping up more on the sea of parking lots just down the street. These type of infill condos help with getting more buzz. Downtown today seemed more lively than I expected.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby eburress » 05 Aug 2020 16:24

^^ I don't think the protests will continue on forever but he's not wrong about their negative effect. I know a lot of people who have avoided Jaxon Beer Garden, for example, because of the way the protesters have been harassing its patrons. It's not why most of Downtown seems dead right now, but it doesn't help.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby rono3849 » 05 Aug 2020 17:34

eburress wrote:^^ I don't think the protests will continue on forever but he's not wrong about their negative effect. I know a lot of people who have avoided Jaxon Beer Garden, for example, because of the way the protesters have been harassing its patrons. It's not why most of Downtown seems dead right now, but it doesn't help.


So people are targeting this business? I was unaware that the knuckleheads were still out on the streets here. Why target a beer garden? Ridiculous.

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eburress
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby eburress » 05 Aug 2020 20:08

They're not targeting the restaurant specifically, but because Downtown is otherwise dead, harassing the people sitting outside at Jaxon is their only option.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 05 Aug 2020 21:38

They are targeting public spaces where they feel they can make an impact. AT&T plaza is where people can gather so they are gathering in protest and others are imbibing in food and drink. Both groups like a ven diagram overlapping each other in public space. The CBD is the crossroads for white and black culture in Dallas. South Dallas starts for many at places like Ross Ave and moves south. White Dallas for many begins at City Hall and moves north. The space between blurs both together and is in a constant flux of diversity depending on the time of day and what companies dominate the office space downtown. AT&T plaza is a place where people who are protesting feel like they can make an impact expressing an unheard view. The problem is most of the current protesting is in the evenings after the busy workers have left downtown and gone back home to the suburbs, Uptown, Park Cities, and even back to places like Frisco. So what you are left with at places like Jaxxon are downtown residents, hotel guests, and anyone else who manages to see past the 1980's ghost town and venture out to what little spaces people can hang out and drink with each other safely. Its a reminder that the CBD may not be the center of employment for Dallas but it does function as a cultural social-political magnet. You don't see protests at NorthPark in the northern white areas of Dallas. You also don't see protests on Lancaster Ave in front of the VA hospital in the South cause what would be the point of protesting in front of people who already understand why Black Lives Matter. No, you see them happening in the CBD because it has a sense of place more than most areas in Dallas. Political social unrest happens where people can gather and be seen where cities various groups intersect and run into each other. Creating places that people want to be is not just about street cafes and kids playing on a community playground its also about spreading the opportunity to be seen and heard.

Putting soap box away.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby dbent » 06 Aug 2020 11:14

cowboyeagle05 wrote:They are targeting public spaces where they feel they can make an impact. AT&T plaza is where people can gather so they are gathering in protest and others are imbibing in food and drink. Both groups like a ven diagram overlapping each other in public space. The CBD is the crossroads for white and black culture in Dallas. South Dallas starts for many at places like Ross Ave and moves south. White Dallas for many begins at City Hall and moves north. The space between blurs both together and is in a constant flux of diversity depending on the time of day and what companies dominate the office space downtown. AT&T plaza is a place where people who are protesting feel like they can make an impact expressing an unheard view. The problem is most of the current protesting is in the evenings after the busy workers have left downtown and gone back home to the suburbs, Uptown, Park Cities, and even back to places like Frisco. So what you are left with at places like Jaxxon are downtown residents, hotel guests, and anyone else who manages to see past the 1980's ghost town and venture out to what little spaces people can hang out and drink with each other safely. Its a reminder that the CBD may not be the center of employment for Dallas but it does function as a cultural social-political magnet. You don't see protests at NorthPark in the northern white areas of Dallas. You also don't see protests on Lancaster Ave in front of the VA hospital in the South cause what would be the point of protesting in front of people who already understand why Black Lives Matter. No, you see them happening in the CBD because it has a sense of place more than most areas in Dallas. Political social unrest happens where people can gather and be seen where cities various groups intersect and run into each other. Creating places that people want to be is not just about street cafes and kids playing on a community playground its also about spreading the opportunity to be seen and heard.

Putting soap box away.



How about you not comment on every post. I’m gonna say what a lot of people think but don’t say; we really don’t care to see you post every day on every thread.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 06 Aug 2020 11:20

dbent wrote:How about you not comment on every post. I’m gonna say what a lot of people think but don’t say; we really don’t care to see you post every day on every thread.

???? That's the point of the forum..lol To post, to have promote discussion. Come on guy, chillax.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby eburress » 06 Aug 2020 11:44

cowboyeagle05 wrote:They are targeting public spaces where they feel they can make an impact. AT&T plaza is where people can gather so they are gathering in protest and others are imbibing in food and drink. Both groups like a ven diagram overlapping each other in public space. The CBD is the crossroads for white and black culture in Dallas. South Dallas starts for many at places like Ross Ave and moves south. White Dallas for many begins at City Hall and moves north. The space between blurs both together and is in a constant flux of diversity depending on the time of day and what companies dominate the office space downtown. AT&T plaza is a place where people who are protesting feel like they can make an impact expressing an unheard view. The problem is most of the current protesting is in the evenings after the busy workers have left downtown and gone back home to the suburbs, Uptown, Park Cities, and even back to places like Frisco. So what you are left with at places like Jaxxon are downtown residents, hotel guests, and anyone else who manages to see past the 1980's ghost town and venture out to what little spaces people can hang out and drink with each other safely. Its a reminder that the CBD may not be the center of employment for Dallas but it does function as a cultural social-political magnet. You don't see protests at NorthPark in the northern white areas of Dallas. You also don't see protests on Lancaster Ave in front of the VA hospital in the South cause what would be the point of protesting in front of people who already understand why Black Lives Matter. No, you see them happening in the CBD because it has a sense of place more than most areas in Dallas. Political social unrest happens where people can gather and be seen where cities various groups intersect and run into each other. Creating places that people want to be is not just about street cafes and kids playing on a community playground its also about spreading the opportunity to be seen and heard.

Putting soap box away.


For sure, I think we all understand that's *why* AT&T is where the protesters are protesting, but nonetheless it's unfortunate for the business trying to open/stay open there.

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dbent
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby dbent » 06 Aug 2020 11:49

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
dbent wrote:How about you not comment on every post. I’m gonna say what a lot of people think but don’t say; we really don’t care to see you post every day on every thread.

???? That's the point of the forum..lol To post, to have promote discussion. Come on guy, chillax.



Chill here for sure!
Just expressing what many feel but haven’t shared. True, It’s a place promote discussion but I think he values his own personal minority opinion more than favoring open discussion....just gets really OLD seeing his comments on every topic

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mdg109
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby mdg109 » 06 Aug 2020 12:18

I've been going to downtown for runs on weekday evenings, and to hangout at certain times day/night on the weekends. I personally haven't seen or heard of protests in weeks. Did I miss something?

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THRILLHO
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby THRILLHO » 06 Aug 2020 12:25

dbent wrote:I’m gonna say what a lot of people think but don’t say;

dbent wrote:Just expressing what many feel but haven’t shared.

How about you speak for your self?
I have always appreciated cowboyeagle's input on the forum and have never once shared your feelings.
It's a forum, you can engage with the contents of a post or not, but if you don't want to read someone's posts you can just keep on walking.

You do you, cowboyeagle. This place would be too quiet without you.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby exelone31 » 06 Aug 2020 12:51

I also appreciate cowboyeagle's input, and that of everyone in our little ecosystem. I really like to hear everyone's viewpoints, whether or not I agree with them.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby DPatel304 » 06 Aug 2020 12:54

mdg109 wrote:I've been going to downtown for runs on weekday evenings, and to hangout at certain times day/night on the weekends. I personally haven't seen or heard of protests in weeks. Did I miss something?


About two weeks ago I remember hearing about some protesting that was happening in the Discovery District right outside of Jaxon on a Saturday night. That particular night I know things got a little bit out of hand, and people at the restaurant ended up moving indoors and DPD ended up coming down (Nothing was really broken/damaged as far as I know, but I think a few people started throwing things).

I live near Turtle Creek Park (formerly Lee Park) and have also seen at least one group protesting within the last two weeks as well. The numbers have dwindled significantly, but it seems there are still people occasionally going out there and protesting.

I'd imagine it'll likely die out completely in the next few weeks though.

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby MC_ScattCat » 06 Aug 2020 13:13

I haven't seen anything either. Honestly I hear people doing doughnuts in there cars more than anything lately. It's been going on more with traffic being light.

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lwtx
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby lwtx » 06 Aug 2020 14:57

Here’s a simple observation (and it’s something that’s perplexed me since I’ve been following the forum). On the website’s landing page, there are multiple categories, including two for “issues” discussions (urban and suburban) and two for “development” discussions (again, urban and suburban). I certainly can’t speak for the individuals that developed the website, but I just always assumed that meant there was a place to discuss “issues” and a separate place to discuss “development”, however the group collectively decided to define those. The “issues” sections can go almost unused for extended weeks and months. Meanwhile, I have to admit there’s a lot of grandstanding and opinionated jousting going on in these threads (which I personally could do without). Could we possibly be respectful of what seems to be a pretty well thought out system of organization and post potentially contentious observations in the other forums? (And I think we all have a handle on what those tend to be... sort of like the “news” page and the “opinion” page back when there were newspapers.)

Just a thought; ready for the beating.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 06 Aug 2020 15:43

In general I'll keep dbent suggestions in mind about my contributions in the future ;). I appreciate other members who felt the need to jump into the discussion too. In general my long posts are too long but I do come from a graduate school back ground in urban planning so I tend to elaborate more based on my research paper like desire to flush out the wider issues. Many times other forumers are good to catch me on the ways they disagree on the facts and that's what I love about posting here cause it rarely feels like a cat fight and more like a passionate discord cause at the end of the day we all seem to care just from different perspectives.

As for this actual threads discussion about the development has anyone seen anything about the artists spaces supposedly meant for the lower section of the tower? I know many of you were worried they wouldn't materalize and the market apartments above are getting marketed heavily now that the tower is mostly done but I have yet to see any headlines about the artist residences.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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TNWE
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby TNWE » 06 Aug 2020 15:54

lwtx wrote:Here’s a simple observation (and it’s something that’s perplexed me since I’ve been following the forum). On the website’s landing page, there are multiple categories, including two for “issues” discussions (urban and suburban) and two for “development” discussions (again, urban and suburban). I certainly can’t speak for the individuals that developed the website, but I just always assumed that meant there was a place to discuss “issues” and a separate place to discuss “development”, however the group collectively decided to define those. The “issues” sections can go almost unused for extended weeks and months. Meanwhile, I have to admit there’s a lot of grandstanding and opinionated jousting going on in these threads (which I personally could do without). Could we possibly be respectful of what seems to be a pretty well thought out system of organization and post potentially contentious observations in the other forums? (And I think we all have a handle on what those tend to be... sort of like the “news” page and the “opinion” page back when there were newspapers.)

Just a thought; ready for the beating.


For better or worse, discussion about specific developments is always going to spill over into discussion of city "issues." I've never seen a forum of any meaningful size manage to keep tangents organized into appropriate threads without effectively having full-time moderators to move posts, lock discussions, etc. On top of that, I'm not sure I'd want to put the mods in the position of having to make decisions about what thread a given string of posts belongs in, beyond "oops I posted something about new DART buses in the Art & Sol forum can someone please move it?" type situations.

Best as I can tell, the "City Issues" fora are for general discussion of trends, news, or policy, while the Development forum threads are tied to a specific project or building. I'd disagree with the idea that "opinions" must only exist in the City Issues forum while the Development Forums are reserved for "factual" discussion. It's not like we're discussing the grades of concrete and steel being used - besides progress photos, it's mostly people saying a building is pretty/ugly, too tall/short, has too much/little parking, etc. and sometimes the conversation organically moves towards a more broad discussion on trends, policy, etc.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Mr. Amsterdam » 07 Aug 2020 16:12

dbent wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:...

How about you not comment on every post. I’m gonna say what a lot of people think but don’t say; we really don’t care to see you post every day on every thread.


Go crawl back to whatever hole you came out of. Nobody is forcing you to visit this site or read anyone's posts.
1999 - 2017

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rono3849
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby rono3849 » 10 Aug 2020 18:48

olive.august.10.a.jpg
olive.august.10.b.jpg
olive.august.10.c.jpg
olive.august.10.d.jpg


Flora & Olive Tower is moving along at a rapid pace as the top floors' exterior is finished off. The white facade of the tower really shows off well next to the Museum Tower, Trammell Crow Tower, & Chase Tower. Will this building be lit up at night? Just curious.
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eburress
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby eburress » 11 Aug 2020 10:28

This one really needed to be brick or stone. The painted white concrete looks cheap as hell and ruins the building's aesthetic, to the point that it's an eyesore in the skyline. I know they're not yet done, and hopefully there's still time to fix this, but I couldn't be more disappointed by how this is turning out.

I45Tex
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby I45Tex » 11 Aug 2020 11:43

It does look cheap to me too but if budget was the chief concern then I wouldn't want the likely alternatives either (a cheap looking brick or stick-on stone veneer).

I wish the top row of the facade grid had increased to 6 storeys from 5, instead of decreasing to 4. A decrease to 4 makes it visually need a heavier cornice line to culminate the wall. Otherwise its composition will appear like it only ran out of steam, which is what it appears like right now.

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eburress
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby eburress » 11 Aug 2020 12:06

I45Tex wrote:I wish the top row of the facade grid had increased to 6 storeys from 5, instead of decreasing to 4. A decrease to 4 makes it visually need a heavier cornice line to culminate the wall. Otherwise its composition will appear like it only ran out of steam, which is what it appears like right now.


I hadn't noticed that but you're right. Totally agree.

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texasstar
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby texasstar » 11 Aug 2020 13:23

As always, this is a tough crowd.

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DisplacedTXN
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby DisplacedTXN » 11 Aug 2020 13:50

I actually really like the White and the blue glass windows. It looks "fresh" and vibrant to me. We see a lot of the darker bricks being used all around the CBD, so I kind of like the variety. I do agree that the top section should have gone taller though. Other than that, seeing the this one, along with The Victor and Amli Fountain Place all top out during these times has been nice to see.
Now I can't wait to see Uber and The Link completed as well as a few others.

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rono3849
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby rono3849 » 11 Aug 2020 18:14

IMO, this hardly looks cheap. BTW, The Victor looks like it will be unpainted concrete & that's a Hines project.


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