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Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Tnexster
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Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~441 FT / ~39 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 04 Nov 2016 17:27

40-story high-rise on the way in Dallas’ Arts District

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... s-district

Developers have filed permits to build a 40-story residential tower in downtown Dallas' Arts District.
The high-rise will be one of the tallest buildings started downtown in almost two decades.

The planned apartment tower at Flora and Olive streets is right next door to the Museum Tower and a block south of Klyde Warren Park.

The high-rise has been in the works for more than a year.

Developer ZOM Holdings just applied for building permits to construct the 416-unit apartment tower, which also is to include retail and restaurant space.

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thedogisnova
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby thedogisnova » 05 Nov 2016 17:01

Yeah saw these permits go up back at the send of September, very exciting (during out hiatus)

"Status: In Express Review
Description of Project: New 40 Story Tower with 416 MFD's, Retail & Restaurant shell, w/parking
New Sqft: 925,807"

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby ContriveDallasite » 07 Nov 2016 03:08

40 stories here we go!! This tower along with the JPMorgan hotel project and the tower next to KPMG will definitely generate some great infill and produce the most construction inside of downtown in at least a decade. The PWC tower, PAC tower and also Goldman potentially moving to TCC are going to create quite a buzz.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby The_Overdog » 07 Nov 2016 10:09

So it will be built on the parking lot on the backside of Museum Tower, and across the street to the south the Nasher Sculpture Garden and the Meyerson Symphony Center on the north side. And the Belo Mansion across the street to the south east.

Possibly one of the best locations in downtown Dallas still available.

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eburress
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby eburress » 07 Nov 2016 10:24

This is the project I'm most excited about in Dallas and can't wait to see it rise! And yes, this plus the other projects going up in the area should fill in the skyline nicely!

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buildingswithlegs
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby buildingswithlegs » 07 Nov 2016 12:20

Not to mention the new arts district masterplan making the site more accessible (fingers crossed)

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thedogisnova
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby thedogisnova » 07 Nov 2016 13:05

Also yeah, unless they're lying about the retail, retail in the AD will be killer

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clcrash19
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby clcrash19 » 07 Nov 2016 13:47

What is the actual height of this building on the permit?

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eburress
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby eburress » 08 Nov 2016 00:08

That's a good question. Museum Tower looked significantly taller in renderings than Flora & Olive Tower (a.k.a., as Artelier), but with Artelier now at 40 stories, maybe its height has increased and it will be almost as tall at MT.

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DBadger
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby DBadger » 09 Nov 2016 09:55

I think the original rendering was for 29 floors. The new design should be quite a bit taller.

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tamtagon
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby tamtagon » 09 Nov 2016 10:52

So, this the last developable Flora Address in the Arts District, right? The city performance hall has a pending whenever plan that could change, but with Hall Condos seemingly on tap, this will be the last of it. I wouldn't be at all disappointed to see the Belo addition replaced with a welcoming street presence - actually that would be great - but I wonder if the lawyers association would go for something like that....

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eburress
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby eburress » 09 Nov 2016 11:18

DBadger wrote:I think the original rendering was for 29 floors. The new design should be quite a bit taller.


Oh, I don't think I realized the original floor count. In that case, this probably will be almost as tall as MT and it would seem like it's going to be a potentially significant change from the original design. I'm excited to see the new renderings!

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Tucy
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby Tucy » 09 Nov 2016 11:44

I don't think anything has changed recently. There's been some bad reporting on this building. We've had stories announcing a 29 story tower while showing 39-story renderings, and now we have a news article telling us it's a 40 story tower, when there does not seem to be any evidence the design has changed. I think it's actually still a 39 story tower, approximately 446 feet tall. Museum Tower is 560 feet, according to Emporis.

This building will be a very exciting addition to Flora Street. Nice design.

http://dallascityhall.com/departments/c ... mittal.pdf

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muncien
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby muncien » 09 Nov 2016 14:18

Wow... Beautiful presentation. Love them sidewalks along Flora!
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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eburress
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby eburress » 09 Nov 2016 20:12

Tucy wrote:I don't think anything has changed recently. There's been some bad reporting on this building. We've had stories announcing a 29 story tower while showing 39-story renderings, and now we have a news article telling us it's a 40 story tower, when there does not seem to be any evidence the design has changed. I think it's actually still a 39 story tower, approximately 446 feet tall. Museum Tower is 560 feet, according to Emporis.

This building will be a very exciting addition to Flora Street. Nice design.

http://dallascityhall.com/departments/c ... mittal.pdf


Gotcha! Thanks for clearing that up, Tucy.

Tnexster
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby Tnexster » 09 Nov 2016 21:34

Really pleased with this one, can't wait to see it go up.

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willyk
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby willyk » 10 Nov 2016 04:26

tamtagon wrote:So, this the last developable Flora Address in the Arts District, right? The city performance hall has a pending whenever plan that could change, but with Hall Condos seemingly on tap, this will be the last of it. I wouldn't be at all disappointed to see the Belo addition replaced with a welcoming street presence - actually that would be great - but I wonder if the lawyers association would go for something like that....


I was wondering about the same thing, especially since the Arts District says they want more residential there. So where would it go?

The big opportunities would be the Two Arts site, across Ross at the Spire site and the two Hall sites on either side of Ross. Someone could offer to build out the remainder City Performance Hall and put residential on top. Maybe the church would let someone redevelop their annex if they got a school out of the deal. Not sure how you would motivate the Dallas Bar to let you renovate the Belo annex.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby The_Overdog » 10 Nov 2016 09:01

I was wondering about the same thing, especially since the Arts District says they want more residential there. So where would it go?


Unless google maps of the area is way off, there are tons of surface parking lots to the southeast and southwest that can still be developed. They have plenty of space all the way to the DART station on Pearl.

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willyk
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby willyk » 11 Nov 2016 04:18

The_Overdog wrote:
I was wondering about the same thing, especially since the Arts District says they want more residential there. So where would it go?


Unless google maps of the area is way off, there are tons of surface parking lots to the southeast and southwest that can still be developed. They have plenty of space all the way to the DART station on Pearl.


Correct-- I am pretty sure you are describing the brain dead Spire site.

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tamtagon
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby tamtagon » 11 Nov 2016 08:57

Will this be the biggest new apartment building? Some of the renovations have/will have more units, but with 416 this one is the biggest from-scratch, right?

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homeworld1031tx
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby homeworld1031tx » 13 Jan 2017 00:50

Any updates on this one?

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Jay9398
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby Jay9398 » 13 Jan 2017 09:03

Heard from a reliable source that this one will start in April.

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dallasbeatsaustin
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby dallasbeatsaustin » 13 Jan 2017 10:37

^ Bueno!

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buildingswithlegs
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby buildingswithlegs » 13 Jan 2017 13:34

willyk wrote:
The_Overdog wrote:
I was wondering about the same thing, especially since the Arts District says they want more residential there. So where would it go?


Unless google maps of the area is way off, there are tons of surface parking lots to the southeast and southwest that can still be developed. They have plenty of space all the way to the DART station on Pearl.


Correct-- I am pretty sure you are describing the brain dead Spire site.


not to mention the new NBBJ masterplan proposal for the Arts District to expand onto those exact lots.. i can't think of any venues we could add to the arts district aside from relocating the Dallas Contemporary

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Austin55
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby Austin55 » 13 Jan 2017 19:21

That PDF on the design is fantastic. Very well thought out. Really like the way this looks.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby lakewoodhobo » 19 Feb 2017 23:43

City's Economic Development Committee will get an update on Tuesday with some next steps. Construction is scheduled to begin by July 1st.

http://dallascityhall.com/government/Co ... 022117.pdf

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willyk
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby willyk » 20 Feb 2017 04:33

lakewoodhobo wrote:City's Economic Development Committee will get an update on Tuesday with some next steps. Construction is scheduled to begin by July 1st.

http://dallascityhall.com/government/Co ... 022117.pdf


Very interesting request:

43/52 (83%) of the units are affordable housing.
$25M project cost
$15M subsidies from TIF, housing bonds and tax credits
$10M net cost of the project to the developer

$350K City subsidy per affordable housing unit.

If we were building conventional affordable apartments, we would get many more units for this same money.

The developer does not state the rent per affordable unit. Since affordability is based on residents having 50-60% of the Average Median Family Income, I wonder how much rent will be. I fear that in fact this will not be very affordable at all, based on the high incomes in the area. I wonder if our local artists will even be able to afford this place.

Hence the developer is pointing toward other benefits of the project like Flora St retail and landscaping the ROW to KWP.

I like the project as a development, but honestly, this is a great example of how the benefits of government subsidies go to the well connected people. And we are willing to pay a lot of money fulfill our own elitist sentiments, that we need to put artists in a very expensive Arts District development, rather than putting many more of our most needy people in housing.
Last edited by willyk on 20 Feb 2017 04:46, edited 1 time in total.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby joshua.dodd » 20 Feb 2017 04:45

I'm pretty sure South Oak CLiff is going to end up being the real "Arts District" since that's the only affordable place for artists in the city.

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homeworld1031tx
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby homeworld1031tx » 22 Feb 2017 15:12

A forty story tower that only costs 25 million? That doesn't sound right

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dukemeredith
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby dukemeredith » 22 Feb 2017 15:14

homeworld1031tx wrote:A forty story tower that only costs 25 million? That doesn't sound right



The $25 million is for the "Flora Street Lofts" part and not the luxury apartment tower.

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TwentyThree
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower

Postby TwentyThree » 01 Mar 2017 13:17

willyk wrote:The developer does not state the rent per affordable unit. Since affordability is based on residents having 50-60% of the Average Median Family Income, I wonder how much rent will be. I fear that in fact this will not be very affordable at all, based on the high incomes in the area. I wonder if our local artists will even be able to afford this place.


The max rents for tax credit units are set by the State not the developer. For instance, a one bedroom unit designated as 50% AMFI in Dallas would have a max rent of $672. And that is only if the unit is all bills paid. If the tenant pays the utilities the max rent amounts are even lower. These rents are citywide so they are the same whether the unit is in the Arts District or South Oak Cliff.

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maconahey
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby maconahey » 22 Mar 2017 18:20

The Arts District of the deal: Long-planned Flora Lofts finally set to become a reality
Robert Wilonsky, City Columnist

But a vote by the Dallas City Council on Wednesday has jump-started the moribund project. The developers, among them La Reunion TX and architect Graham Greene, now expect to begin work by July, with March 2019 penciled in as the opening date.




http://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-c ... me-reality

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eburress
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby eburress » 22 Mar 2017 18:49

Man, that's terrific news! With this, the Epic, the nearby 2000 Ross and AMLI towers, there's going to be a new "generation" of cranes sprouting in Downtown! Wooohoo!

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 23 Mar 2017 10:12

eburress wrote:Man, that's terrific news! With this, the Epic, the nearby 2000 Ross and AMLI towers, there's going to be a new "generation" of cranes sprouting in Downtown! Wooohoo!


Wow, two 40 plus towers going up at the same time.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby DPatel304 » 23 Mar 2017 11:39

Two *quality 40 plus towers going up at the same time. Not only are these both quite a bit taller than what we usually see, they also aren't the standard cookie-cutter apartment we have seen go up all over Uptown.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 23 Mar 2017 11:52

DPatel304 wrote:Two *quality 40 plus towers going up at the same time. Not only are these both quite a bit taller than what we usually see, they also aren't the standard cookie-cutter apartment we have seen go up all over Uptown.


True, some new skyline changes. Good stuff

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Tucy
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tucy » 23 Mar 2017 16:31

At last count, this one is still 39 stories.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 24 Mar 2017 11:21

Tucy wrote:At last count, this one is still 39 stories.


Page 17 and 18 show 41 floors but there also appears to be no 13th floor so technically thats 40. Unless they have changed the design since this was published. This was from 2015 so it could have changed.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 24 Mar 2017 11:39

Arts district lofts are neat, but not the best way to spend city money

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comme ... city-money

But this project is also a physical representation of precisely why this city faces a long, uphill battle with poverty and homelessness. The project is another pretty thing that helps bolster the city's already glistening reputation as a city of wealth (current city government notwithstanding) and passion for the arts. Booker T. Washington High School for the Performing and Visual Arts is right around the corner, after all. And let's not forget the Museum Tower condos.

In order for this city to make significant headway for the families on the edge of homelessness, the millions of dollars going into this project (and any other like it) could most certainly be more wisely used. If ever there was a project that would lead to economic benefit for the City of Dallas, it is funding pre-kindergarten and after school programs at schools with disproportionally high levels of children living in poverty. Forget Dallas ISD, put City of Dallas Economic Development money into those programs.

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Tucy
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tucy » 24 Mar 2017 12:25

Tnexster wrote:
Tucy wrote:At last count, this one is still 39 stories.


Page 17 and 18 show 41 floors but there also appears to be no 13th floor so technically thats 40. Unless they have changed the design since this was published. This was from 2015 so it could have changed.


The highest labeled floor says "Level 40", which, because there is no 13th floor, is really Level 39. The top floor is taller than the others (essentially the height of 2 floors). See page 48.

So, 39 stories.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 24 Mar 2017 13:37

The 10th floor is also taller than the others and they (Zom) label the top floor at 40 so 40 it is. Aside from the technical aspects of floor sizes and such I believe the general thought is that the towers going up are taller and more architecturally significant than the usual 20 floor box. Dallas has seen a nice progression as time has moved along, maybe we will get something even taller than 40 sooner than later.

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Tucy
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tucy » 24 Mar 2017 14:04

Tnexster wrote:The 10th floor is also taller than the others and they (Zom) label the top floor at 40 so 40 it is. Aside from the technical aspects of floor sizes and such I believe the general thought is that the towers going up are taller and more architecturally significant than the usual 20 floor box. Dallas has seen a nice progression as time has moved along, maybe we will get something even taller than 40 sooner than later.


The building design shows 39 stories. Some are taller than others, some are shorter than others. One number is skipped in the floor numbering. It still has just 39 stories.

If they skipped numbers 1-10 when numbering the floors and labeled the top floor "Level 49", would you say the building is 49 stories? If so, we may have found a way for Dallas to finally get a 100-story tower. ;-)

But, yes, at 39 stories, it's a nice jump up from most of what we have been getting in Dallas and it appears that it will be a very nice-looking building.

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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Mar 2017 17:29

Well the building I work in is listed everywhere as 20 stories. I am still trying to find those missing floors cause we do have a labeled 13th floor and the rent-able space only goes to 18. If you count the basement there is 19 and if you count a equipment space half a staircase up on 18 maybe that's the "20th floor". Its all a parlor trick.
.

Tnexster
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 25 Mar 2017 13:56

True it is all a parlor trick and I never understand the deal with skipping 13, are people really that skittish about that number? Even if you skip 13, isn't fourteen really still the 13th floor?

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R1070
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby R1070 » 25 Mar 2017 17:37

I wish this building had a little more design on top. Dallas needs some more interesting rooftops.

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Tucy
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Tucy » 26 Mar 2017 12:25

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well the building I work in is listed everywhere as 20 stories. I am still trying to find those missing floors cause we do have a labeled 13th floor and the rent-able space only goes to 18. If you count the basement there is 19 and if you count a equipment space half a staircase up on 18 maybe that's the "20th floor". Its all a parlor trick.
.


Yeah, it's a parlor trick often played by developers and overly-enthusiastic observers and reporters. Of course, the parlor trick does not actually change reality. The building you work in apparently has 18 floors, not the 20 of the parlor trick. The planned tower at Flora and Olive has 39 floors, not the 40, 41 or 42 of the various parlor tricks.

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tamtagon
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby tamtagon » 26 Mar 2017 14:28

Every since I was a kid fascinated by skyscrapers, I wondered why some buildings with 100 floors were not as tall as others buildings with fewer floors. Math gave me an average feet per floor, but there's still a vairable "so what" factor when considering the building height.

HA updated in the new millennium with the "so what" factor (as noted on one of these thread by a couple or more) of the fake spire antenna building height.

I'm relieved Dallas made it to this level, new residential buildings over 400 feet tall.

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Brettoj
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby Brettoj » 05 Jul 2017 07:19

Anything moving on this one? Last I remember was a "summer" start.

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R1070
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby R1070 » 05 Jul 2017 21:28

I remember them saying a July start. I'd love to see this one get started.

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homeworld1031tx
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Re: Arts District: Flora & Olive Tower (~460 FT / 42 ST)

Postby homeworld1031tx » 30 Jul 2017 12:58

Bumping this one back up - it had a scheduled start date of 'no later than July', as per the DMN article from March. Any movement at the proposed site?


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