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Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ContriveDallasite » 13 Apr 2017 08:22

Great food and good drinks. Such a sad progression that the places that make a neighborhood exciting in the first place have to make way for corporate Copy-Paste architecture.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 13 Apr 2017 08:54

I'll be angry if we get another crap CVS in this corner but TBH it's our own fault for not protecting this building in the first place. Talk about dropping the ball when someone drew the TIF boundary and then the demolition delay overlay and did not include this building, which certainly is historic. Also ironic that it's being torn down considering the neighborhood really wants a full-service grocery store.

Bishop Arts as we know it is changing, not because they're tearing things down but because our idea of what Bishop Arts is keeps changing. Let's be clear that neither El Chico/Tejano/Corazon or Sonic or Long John Silver/BEE/Zoli were ever part of the Bishop Arts District, which is in fact protected.

And really neither was the corner of Bishop and Melba, but that's now getting a public plaza, opening this weekend, described as "right in the middle of Bishop Arts."

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xen0blue
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby xen0blue » 13 Apr 2017 08:58

tamtagon wrote:Most of my piers, those drawn to a life of creating art or music, maintain the desire of at least amateur enthusiasts


Piers? Do you own a marina or something? :D

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tamtagon
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby tamtagon » 13 Apr 2017 09:10

xen0blue wrote:
tamtagon wrote:Most of my piers, those drawn to a life of creating art or music, maintain the desire of at least amateur enthusiasts


Piers? Do you own a marina or something? :D


just a pond in the backyard

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tamtagon
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby tamtagon » 13 Apr 2017 09:18

lakewoodhobo wrote:I'll be angry if we get another crap CVS in this corner but TBH it's our own fault for not protecting this building in the first place. Talk about dropping the ball when someone drew the TIF boundary and then the demolition delay overlay and did not include this building, which certainly is historic.

Bishop Arts as we know it is changing, not because they are tearing things down but because our idea of what Bishop Arts is keeps changing. Let's be clear that neither El Chico/Tejano/Corazon or Sonic or Long John Silver/BEE/Zoli were ever part of the Bishop Arts District, which is in fact protected.


Sure seems to be happening fast. Even as Bishop Arts - Downtown Oak Cliff has received a glowingly positive reputation as a refreshing side of Dallas, it had remained off the radar for the bulk of North Texans. Not so much anymore, just in, what - two years?

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 13 Apr 2017 09:25

tamtagon wrote:Sure seems to be happening fast. Even as Bishop Arts - Downtown Oak Cliff has received a glowingly positive reputation as a refreshing side of Dallas, it had remained off the radar for the bulk of North Texans. Not so much anymore, just in, what - two years?


Yep, it's been exactly two years since this article was posted and the first time I read that big changes were coming.

The Oak Cliff Land Rush: Is it about to become another Uptown?
https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/ ... xt-uptown/

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tamtagon
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby tamtagon » 13 Apr 2017 09:35

Since the turn of the century, I've always bundled Bishop Arts and Oak Cliff in with SoCal neighborhoods like Los Feliz and Silverlake. Hopefully the next decade will prove it true and despite a deluge of new stuff and many many more residents, the tone and disposition of the place with it's artistic edge, creativity, and tolerance of different types of people will remain.

Tnexster
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 14 Apr 2017 09:46

At the old El Chico, a battle for the heart, soul and stomachs of north Oak Cliff

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... -oak-cliff

Griggs wrote that the property was zoned for retail, wasn't in any of the Bishop Arts-related planned development districts, is not subject to the city's recently enacted demolition delay, and that a "CVS associated company" has filed to replat the eatery's small block bound by Davis, Zang, North Beckley Avenue and West Seventh Street. That company is Alabama-based Orange Development, which, in 2015, tussled with the City Plan Commission over plans to plant a CVS at Singleton Boulevard and Sylvan Avenue ... and ultimately won.

Griggs made it clear this last bit greatly displeased him: "I am opposed to a standard construction CVS ... that will damage the character of our neighborhood at this location," he wrote. "While you can never legislate building and use, I don't know why CVS couldn't adaptively re-use the building as a CVS."

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 14 Apr 2017 14:45

This colorful mural in Dallas' Bishop Arts District is begging to be on your Instagram

https://www.guidelive.com/local-people- ... 1452266840

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby joshua.dodd » 16 Apr 2017 06:16

I noticed construction on Zang Blvd just south of Davis street. Anyone knows what's going on with that?

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kingpin
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby kingpin » 16 Apr 2017 12:55

Crescent Bishop Arts

ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr
ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr
ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr
ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 16 Apr 2017 16:59

This one is cool, as much as BA has flourished and changed since its inception I can't imagine how much it will change again as these newer and larger developments complete and open up.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 18 Apr 2017 13:08

lakewoodhobo wrote:15578846_10208355297946267_1900562510558961826_n.jpg


Couple of questions about this development. The small lot that is adjacent and just to the west of this building, is that part of the same development? Is it going to be a parking lot? Hope not. Also, what is the hold-up on the larger part of this development? Still the hotel thing? Everyone else's projects seem to be in high gear. It seems to me that Nazerian was the first one to announce, but has been a little slow to get moving.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby joshua.dodd » 19 Apr 2017 07:31

Are they planning on any expansions of the trolley line?

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 19 Apr 2017 09:40

ericthegardener wrote:Couple of questions about this development. The small lot that is adjacent and just to the west of this building, is that part of the same development? Is it going to be a parking lot? Hope not. Also, what is the hold-up on the larger part of this development? Still the hotel thing? Everyone else's projects seem to be in high gear. It seems to me that Nazerian was the first one to announce, but has been a little slow to get moving.


I can't see the photo you referenced, but if it's the lot south of Lucia, it probably won't be a parking lot. At least on paper, these guys are asking for a lot less parking than what's allowed. The hold-up on the hotel and apartments is probably as simple as not having the financing in place. They'll need a residential partner like Gables or Street Lights to get that going.

Maybe the hold-up is a good thing? I'd rather they find a partner who aligns with their vision and not in a big hurry to slap up some stucco and sticks. The first-phase retail portion is looking good.

joshua.dodd wrote:Are they planning on any expansions of the trolley line?


The next phase of the streetcar is on the downtown side; after that nothing happens without massive help from the feds.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby joshua.dodd » 19 Apr 2017 10:29

That's kind of a bummer. The streetcar would be great if it could be extended toward the zoo or looped on Davis to Jefferson.

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DBadger
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby DBadger » 19 Apr 2017 10:34

I agree. I love this store as well but can't remember the last time I purchased something there. As 'Artisan' gets priced out, similar to design stores in design district or Cool bars in LG, hopefully they relocate closer to these urban centers (further out; 9th or 10th and sign a 10 year lease:) and help expand these walkable neighborhoods past these small nuclei. Unfortunately unavoidable.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Dettmann1 » 19 Apr 2017 10:59

ericthegardener wrote:
lakewoodhobo wrote:15578846_10208355297946267_1900562510558961826_n.jpg


Couple of questions about this development. The small lot that is adjacent and just to the west of this building, is that part of the same development? Is it going to be a parking lot? Hope not. Also, what is the hold-up on the larger part of this development? Still the hotel thing? Everyone else's projects seem to be in high gear. It seems to me that Nazerian was the first one to announce, but has been a little slow to get moving.


Pretty sure the hold up on Nazerian's end was rezoning/variances. Given how specific the variances were, he probably wanted those in hand for final design/permitting of the site (That's typically how developments like this run). You also don't typically move forward with variances as detailed as they had without some tenants signing LOI's (You would structure the deal around the variances). I read somewhere recently that the opening of the courtyard near the Nazerian development was a sign of imminent construction on the site, but then again they have been using the property as a staging area for infrastructure improvements along Zang and Melba/Bishop.

If I were to guess, I'd peg construction start as late summer as that gives them time to finish design, finalize financing, and mobilize for construction as well as give the infrastructure folks time to clear out.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 19 Apr 2017 13:11

Dettmann1 wrote:I read somewhere recently that the opening of the courtyard near the Nazerian development was a sign of imminent construction on the site, but then again they have been using the property as a staging area for infrastructure improvements along Zang and Melba/Bishop.


That's good to know. I thought maybe the courtyard was being used to generate some excitement because the project had stalled. Thanks for the detailed answer.

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NdoorTX
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby NdoorTX » 24 Apr 2017 22:55

So it's not listed on the Aesop website, but it looks like Oak Cliff is also getting a location of this upmarket apothecary. The empty space in Bishops next to Oddfellows has window clings announcing this store. We'll see how Bishops continues to evolve- from up and coming neighborhood renaissance to regional destination. Hopefully it'll find a happy medium.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby worldwoh » 25 Apr 2017 09:04

FWIW, I was in El Corazon this weekend and was informed that, sadly, the rumors are true: a deal with CVS was inked late last week and Sunday April 30th will be the restaurant's last day open.

For those that loved the food -- let's hope I've been misinformed, or that the Cuellars open a new Oak Cliff location soon.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 25 Apr 2017 09:20

Man, that sucks big time.. Dallas fix your damn code already

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 25 Apr 2017 15:27

worldwoh wrote:FWIW, I was in El Corazon this weekend and was informed that, sadly, the rumors are true: a deal with CVS was inked late last week and Sunday April 30th will be the restaurant's last day open.


I bet they're in a massive hurry to tear it down, too. There's a Landmark Commission meeting on May 1 at 1pm with this being an item on the agenda.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 25 Apr 2017 15:32

lakewoodhobo wrote:
worldwoh wrote:FWIW, I was in El Corazon this weekend and was informed that, sadly, the rumors are true: a deal with CVS was inked late last week and Sunday April 30th will be the restaurant's last day open.


I bet they're in a massive hurry to tear it down, too. There's a Landmark Commission meeting on May 1 at 1pm with this being an item on the agenda.


If the last day of operation is 4/30 they'll have a really tiny window to tear it down... Hopefully the landmark commission saves El Corazón.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 25 Apr 2017 17:08

I'm surprised this isn't getting the OC community in a massive uproar.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 25 Apr 2017 17:44

Tnexster wrote:I'm surprised this isn't getting the OC community in a massive uproar.


I think it is.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 25 Apr 2017 18:29

Tnexster wrote:I'm surprised this isn't getting the OC community in a massive uproar.


Compared to the uproar against Alamo Manhattan, which replaced a Sonic and a Long John Silver's, there is very little push-back from the community on this and it surprises me too.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 27 Apr 2017 11:24

El Corazon restaurant, beloved in Oak Cliff, is closing after all

https://www.guidelive.com/food-and-drin ... 1455145806

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Apr 2017 12:56

Historic Architecture Gods...Please save us!

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 27 Apr 2017 13:28

It would be such a cool piece of history mixed in with the new developments and instead we need CVS................Dallas.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Cbdallas » 27 Apr 2017 15:06

Remember the same thing happened with the CVS at McKinney and Lemmon where they tore down the Loon and now we have a parking lot and CVS where a 35 story high rise should be. Not sure what can be done about this and the worst part is that CVS and Walgreens tend to have very long term leases or worse purshase the land so it locks it in for the long haul. All of these drugstores should be at the bottom floor of a denser mixed use development but what do you do.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Dmkflyer » 27 Apr 2017 15:09

Why can't they just consider putting the CVS in the old structure??

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Apr 2017 16:23

Cbdallas wrote:Remember the same thing happened with the CVS at McKinney and Lemmon where they tore down the Loon and now we have a parking lot and CVS where a 35 story high rise should be. Not sure what can be done about this and the worst part is that CVS and Walgreens tend to have very long term leases or worse purshase the land so it locks it in for the long haul. All of these drugstores should be at the bottom floor of a denser mixed use development but what do you do.


Dallas has fix the code. Simple. They refuse to not to. They're stuck in sprawl mode.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby rasec33 » 30 Apr 2017 09:43

Cbdallas wrote: All of these drugstores should be at the bottom floor of a denser mixed use development but what do you do.


I agree 100% on this! It should've been part of the Crescent Bishops Art but go figure! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 01 May 2017 08:53

So was El Corazón destroyed this weekend?

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 01 May 2017 09:17

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:So was El Corazón destroyed this weekend?


Yesterday was their last day of business. Probably come down sometime this week.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 01 May 2017 09:24

ericthegardener wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:So was El Corazón destroyed this weekend?


Yesterday was their last day of business. Probably come down sometime this week.


Well I ask since it's on the landmark commission agenda for today... per a prior post.

Maybe it is saved or at least delayed.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 01 May 2017 09:40

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Maybe it is saved or at least delayed.


I hope you're right, but I have a bad feeling.

My first choice would be that the building were re-purposed, but even more importantly to me I wish that something more dense was going in that location. A CVS with a giant parking lot just seems like a huge waste right across the street from the new Bishop Arts trolley stop.

Does anyone know why that corner was not included the zoning plan that was done a few years ago? They knew the trolley was coming at the time they redid the zoning, right?

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 May 2017 09:57

I would point to a general thought of where do you draw the line when defining these special districts. You can't put all of Oak Cliff in the Gateway District and major arteries like Davis, Zang and Beckley are natural man-made boundaries for saying we are stopping here. Mind you when a transit stop is being implemented there should be a natural action by the city to adjust zoning to align with a density. In this case, such changes would overlap with the Gateway District overlay that put new standards in place across the street.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 01 May 2017 10:24

cowboyeagle05 wrote: You can't put all of Oak Cliff in the Gateway District and major arteries like Davis, Zang and Beckley are natural man-made boundaries for saying we are stopping here.


Yes, Beckley would have been a great man made boundary which would have included the property in question.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 May 2017 12:24

ericthegardener wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote: You can't put all of Oak Cliff in the Gateway District and major arteries like Davis, Zang and Beckley are natural man-made boundaries for saying we are stopping here.


Yes, Beckley would have been a great man made boundary which would have included the property in question.


Touché, too bad no one on any committee and the dozen or so public meetings pointed that out before now. No one apparently guessed the landmark restaurant would end up on the chopping block so quickly I assume. Some of us get used to things being there so long without what appears to be any interest from the development community so when something happens this fast we get whiplash in Dallas.

I honestly expected better from the family that owned the property. I am not saying they are bad people either but I am sad about their choice. I figured they would be very interested in some sort of preservation but money talks and CVS certainly will pay and not bat an eye at the implications of a suburban store in an area trying to "densify" with respect to walkability and mass transit design orientation.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 01 May 2017 13:11

From the Oak Cliff Advocate:

http://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2017/05/bishop-arts-cvs-case-griggs-appoints-task-force/

But Price has agreed to work with a task force of preservationists, real estate developers and Oak Cliff residents to work out the following points, taken verbatim from Griggs’ post on the matter:

1. Bring CVS to the table.

2. Confirm that the building must be razed. Mr. Price insists this is true.

3. If the building must be destroyed, work on a new design that addresses issues of form and architecture. Mr. Price insists the proposed location of the building cannot be moved.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 01 May 2017 13:30

Hmm.. we'll see what happens

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 May 2017 15:50

What is the proposed location of the building on the site? I haven't seen any diagrams so I have been assuming based on their previous track record of building stores in urbanizing Dallas neighborhoods.

Honestly, I don't expect any positive news here. Mr. Price will probably let the neighborhood choose between a few options of brick color and that's about it. If it's a public community meeting they will probably satisfy no one and many will leave even angrier that the company has no interest in working with the community. As far as they are concerned they are bending over backward to even consider talking to the public about "options".

I can only assume they are a little worried about backlash if they don't put up some sort of attempt at defusing the clash of engagement. I assume they want to get the city to agree to hold back and landmark status so if they can appear to be appeasing they can keep back such measures enough to get what they want.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 01 May 2017 17:33

So I saw that Landmark voted unanimously to initiate landmark process.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 03 May 2017 22:58

ericthegardener wrote:Couple of questions about this development. The small lot that is adjacent and just to the west of this building, is that part of the same development? Is it going to be a parking lot? Hope not.


Looks like it is a parking lot.

Image

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 03 May 2017 23:21

El Corazon could be demolished, but the Cuellars' role in making Dallas the city we love will live on

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/edit ... -city-love

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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby DPatel304 » 15 May 2017 15:40

It's Demolition Day for El Corazon de Tejas

http://www.dallasobserver.com/restauran ... ed-9469658

Well that was really quick...

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man or pacman
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby man or pacman » 15 May 2017 17:41

So according to the article there is a new for sale sign up on the property. So if the sale didn't go through, the Cuellars (current owners of the building) are the ones that ordered the demolition. They destroyed their own legacy to spite the neighborhood and avoid further historic protections for the sake of greater profits. That sucks.

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Tucy
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tucy » 15 May 2017 17:50

man or pacman wrote:So according to the article there is a new for sale sign up on the property. So if the sale didn't go through, the Cuellars (current owners of the building) are the ones that ordered the demolition. They destroyed their own legacy to spite the neighborhood and avoid further historic protections for the sake of greater profits. That sucks.


There being a new for sale sign on the property tells us nothing about whether the sale by the Cuellars went through.


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