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1700 Pacific

cowboyeagle05
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1700 Pacific

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Aug 2018 10:38

Word on the street is that this building is about to be 80% empty and they still haven't done any serious renovation in years. Supposedly they are replacing their leasing team too.

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whit5125
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby whit5125 » 24 Aug 2018 10:55

That is actually impressive to accomplish given this hot market, and that building is actually pretty nice from what I remember.

Though if you arent doing any renovation, there is your problem. This building needs a new owner or we will have ourselves another Drever, just without asbestos.

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CTroyMathis
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby CTroyMathis » 24 Aug 2018 11:14

The Seventeen Hundred. New apartment tower name in 2022. ; )

cowboyeagle05
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Aug 2018 11:45

The building shows its age inside though. It's maintained but its lobby is pink granite and every building owner in Downtown has been paying the price to remove that stuff to appear more up-to-date, the food court is just blah but its more than some buildings have to offer. The bus stop/plaza that surround it is always full of a mix of behavior problems. They do have an in-house fitness tenant but I have no idea what state that's currently in. It just isn't competing in its current state. The Chase bank branch is staying and the Starbucks is still popular with area office workers. The owners have proposed turning a ground floor office suite into a restaurant in recent history but I assume they just haven't found anyone interested. As I understand the underground garage is largely unused but I imagine the parking ratio isn't so hot.

Soon it will have a park view of Pacific Plaza though so it can not be all bad news.

Whats funny though is Alto211 across the street is older, has NO parking and has 7/11 as a ground floor tenant that attracts a begging homeless population yet its occupancy is higher.

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tamtagon
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby tamtagon » 24 Aug 2018 11:50

CTroyMathis wrote:The Seventeen Hundred. New apartment tower name in 2022. ; )


Great. Now I'm obsessing over my three level penthouse with east and west-facing balconies.... the sunset watching parties, the sunrise watching parties, tracking the planes coming and going at Love Field. :ugeek:

lakewoodhobo
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby lakewoodhobo » 24 Aug 2018 12:00

This building is such a disaster with its awkward multilevel lobby/plaza/food court/transit tunnel, I can't even think of a way to improve the pedestrian experience around it. If the city hadn't abandoned Live Oak, this could've been built on a smaller footprint and looked like a flatiron-type tower instead.

Not even a flagship Whataburger would save this one.

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dallaz
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby dallaz » 24 Aug 2018 12:50

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Word on the street is that this building is about to be 80% empty and they still haven't done any serious renovation in years. Supposedly they are replacing their leasing team too.

Honestly, that’s not surprising. I’ve been in this building numerous times and I’ve never seen it busy. They should turn the upper floors into residential or hotel space, if they can’t lease the office space.

If they were to renovate the building, I’m sure it would be difficult due to the building being covered in pink granite (inside and out). Maybe they can find a way to do a modern upatde with the existing granite. I know removing it would be VERY expensive.

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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Aug 2018 13:10

The real question on everyone's mind is where would they build the valet ramp like what every other 80's office tower has done downtown. Wipe out the plaza on Ervay? Incorporate it into the quieter Pacific side? You know whoever finally does renovate is going to add a driveway for pick and drop off. It's just a matter of where they will reconfigure the space.

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Matt777
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Matt777 » 24 Aug 2018 15:18

The food court is not the problem in this building. It is always crowded at lunch and they are actually finishing up an expansion that will add a whole new hallway of retail spaces.

The lobby itself isn't even that bad and really just needs new furniture, art, and maybe some additional lighting. A mild refresh.

The exterior plaza needs some serious repair and cleaning. Signs are outdated, plants are dying, things are just generally tired. It presents a bad face for the building even before you step inside.

So overall, it just needs better management and leasing staff, along with some new marketing. If it had better management, these small issues would have never become issues in the first place.

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R1070
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby R1070 » 24 Aug 2018 21:20

This would be a great building for "affordable" condos.

dfwcre8tive
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby dfwcre8tive » 27 Aug 2018 12:32

The base of this building has always been awkward with multiple entrances at different levels. The color of the granite is not the issue; it's the poor utilization of space at ground level. Add more openings, activate the empty lobby spaces, create a retail corridor more akin to a hotel lobby, etc.

The plaza area is still owned/leased by the city. This may be why there is little incentive to improve that area. The City of Dallas should convince DART to use this for the transit hub it was intended to be.

Here are some proposed renovations, but there isn't much to see:
http://www.olymbec.com/274-1307-1700_pa ... asing.html

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1700 Pacific Parcel:

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City of Dallas Parcel:

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For your research/reading:

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texasstar
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby texasstar » 27 Aug 2018 12:46

Sad to see this. 1700 Pacific is where I worked when I first moved here back in 2001. At the time, I thought it was the coolest building ever. I was on the 34th floor, overlooking the greatest city in the world. I thought I had died and gone to heaven.

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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby dfwcre8tive » 27 Aug 2018 12:46

cowboyeagle05 wrote:The real question on everyone's mind is where would they build the valet ramp like what every other 80's office tower has done downtown. Wipe out the plaza on Ervay? Incorporate it into the quieter Pacific side? You know whoever finally does renovate is going to add a driveway for pick and drop off. It's just a matter of where they will reconfigure the space.


Fortunately it may be difficult to add a driveway when they only own the land on St Paul and a portion of Commerce.

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Warrior2015
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Warrior2015 » 27 Aug 2018 13:56

I actually went inside this building for the future of downtown dallas event back in February and they were trying to market the office space

cowboyeagle05
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 27 Aug 2018 14:48

Ah, now I get where the Plaza problem is. The city needs to be pushed to let it go or work with the property owners to make badly needed changes. The DART bus stop's here get heavily used on all sides so I am not sure how much more DART could use this spot except if a train station were to ever actually show up. Even tour buses drop loads of tourists off here for lunch times so they are definitely getting a lot of use out of the food court. With the right changes, they could start calling it a food hall ;).

The plaza has some good tree coverage compared to other downtown properties but the water feature appears to be a nuisance, turned off during the summer. The flora on top of the 1980's bus shelters are stuck in the 80's as well. You have to give it to them though they have green roofs that actually shelter bus patrons during rain and that's more than most bus shelters in this town. The old food court signage, the one that looked like a roll of parchment designed to look like a newspaper pictured on this forum a few months ago was removed two months ago. The removed signage foundation sits there as a huge trip waiting to happen or something a scooter driver is bound to miss and face plant.

The black box signage that is positioned next to each bus stop stopped being maintained years ago so yeah that could definitely use some replacing.

This is one of those moments when they need to do what they always do in Dallas, hire the Klyde Warren firm to design an update and cheer it in a press release like the second coming.

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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby dfwcre8tive » 27 Aug 2018 15:35

cowboyeagle05 wrote:The DART bus stop's here get heavily used on all sides so I am not sure how much more DART could use this spot except if a train station were to ever actually show up.


If not by DART, perhaps the underground can be used for a future hyperloop station in the center of downtown :)

itsjrd1964
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby itsjrd1964 » 27 Aug 2018 15:57

Sometimes the water is on, but not all the time. It's good they got rid of the outdated rolled-paper sign; the restaurants on that weren't all there anymore. The upright backlit sign on Elm that shows a list of restaurants is out of date also and needs replacing/updating/removal. They've done a somewhat good job of keeping up the multi-restaurant sign above the food court doorway. The food court itself looks like some work may be getting done there. The empty spaces east of the SushiYaa and across from the Pacific Gifts shop appear to be getting repurposed or rearranged; there was plastic over it all so it was hard to see. I think some work was being done between Smoothie King and the stair connection to the Comerica Tower, also, but I didn't look close to see if it was like the other work, or something else.

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Matt777
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Matt777 » 27 Aug 2018 16:16

itsjrd1964 wrote:The food court itself looks like some work may be getting done there. The empty spaces east of the SushiYaa and across from the Pacific Gifts shop appear to be getting repurposed or rearranged; there was plastic over it all so it was hard to see. I think some work was being done between Smoothie King and the stair connection to the Comerica Tower, also, but I didn't look close to see if it was like the other work, or something else.


That's an entirely new hallway of retail spaces being built. They weren't empty spaces, they are new spaces behind the plastic sheet. I can't remember the exact square footage, but I think its going to expand the retail space by over 50% or something.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 28 Aug 2018 09:40

Seems like an odd investment to spend so much on the food court and nothing else as far as improvements. I get why the food court for them provides a return in two ways, rent from new restaurants and its a better amenity for tenants but without the "Wifi Lounge" everyone else has been building how will they survive...

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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby lakewoodhobo » 28 Aug 2018 10:13

If the city is still required to use this property for public transit purposes, then they could get into trouble with the feds for selling it or giving it away since it was acquired with federal dollars.

Screen Shot 2018-08-28 at 10.09.31 AM.jpg


They should arrange a land swap with DART so that the city can take ownership of anything they need for Carpenter Park or the mess on Pearl St.
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Jay9398
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Jay9398 » 29 Aug 2018 08:41

I believe the building is allowed to take over the northern lane of Elm Street whenever they're ready. I imagine that could address the valet concerns.

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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 Aug 2018 08:49

Jay9398 wrote:I believe the building is allowed to take over the northern lane of Elm Street whenever they're ready. I imagine that could address the valet concerns.


Yes and no. Obviously, we have seen how the new hotel next door uses their reclaimed Elm street lane for their hotel valet and they built curb bump-outs to make it so. The city does draw the line on valet stands particularly if they think it could cause a traffic back up during rush hour on Elm. Other buildings downtown have been denied by the city for adding valet on certain streets or areas the city is worried about adverse effects on traffic flow. We saw how Thanksgiving Tower put theirs on the Pacific Street side not Elm and I have no idea who preferred that, the city or the developer considering the Hilton Graden Inn next door to them also uses the public sidewalk on Pacific as a Valet pull up area and traffic does build up on that narrow stretch on Pacific regularly. The Hilton Garden Inn didnt even build a driveway they use the crosswalk ramp to drive cars onto the sidewalk and don't have much capacity for more than two cars at a time depending on how they park them.

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Matt777
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Matt777 » 31 Aug 2018 22:45

Flying Biscuit Cafe, an Atlanta based chain, will be moving into 1700 Pacific where Camille's Sidewalk Cafe used to be (I think this is by the Starbucks?). While I would have liked to see a local diner chain open a Downtown location or for Cindi's to expand Downtown, I'll take this. It will be very good for all the new hotel rooms in this area.

Biscuits rise in downtown Dallas via incoming homey Atlanta restaurant
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... -camilles/

Tnexster
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Tnexster » 01 Sep 2018 13:59

^That sounds very good, can't wait to try it out.

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tamtagon
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby tamtagon » 01 Sep 2018 14:26

Flying Biscuit is super popular in Atlanta.

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ForumFollowsFunction
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby ForumFollowsFunction » 03 Sep 2018 14:23

Used to go all the time before living in Dallas. I’m normally not a fan of chains but this place does some great food, assuming the quality hasn’t degraded.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 04 Sep 2018 09:08

I wonder what their signage deal will be. Being that they will be hidden inside the food court rather than that spot where the Cedars Mediterranean restaurant used to be facing the exterior of the plaza. I just hope they are getting more than a tiny rounded square on that sign over the plaza doors. This is a tenant that would do well with the hotel crowd but being buried inside could mean its closed early and not even open on the weekends. We need stuff that's open on the weekends and the only way that works is for places to be visible and not hidden inside office food courts.

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dallaz
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby dallaz » 20 Dec 2018 12:49

$10 million makeover of downtown Dallas tower adds more retail, restaurant options

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... nt-options

itsjrd1964
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby itsjrd1964 » 28 Dec 2018 23:41

Here's a link to a post I put in the DTD Retail (topic really needs renaming...) thread about the upcoming Flying Biscuit Cafe space:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92&p=20643#p20643

itsjrd1964
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby itsjrd1964 » 05 Mar 2019 09:36

Apparently the DTD location opened yesterday. Hours are 7am-3pm Monday-Friday, 7am-4pm Saturday-Sunday.

http://www.flyingbiscuit.com/locations- ... acificave/
Menu/prices: https://www.flyingbiscuit.com/wp-conten ... s-Menu.pdf

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dallaz
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby dallaz » 04 Apr 2019 16:54

Downtown Dallas "for sale" signs are spreading with another tower up for grabs

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ower-grabs

Tnexster
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Tnexster » 04 Apr 2019 16:57

dallaz wrote:Downtown Dallas "for sale" signs are spreading with another tower up for grabs

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ower-grabs


Wow...40% occupied, this one is an opportunity for someone. Seems like a great time to try to fill it up.

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CRE_Investor
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby CRE_Investor » 05 Apr 2019 14:09

Tnexster wrote:
dallaz wrote:Downtown Dallas "for sale" signs are spreading with another tower up for grabs

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ower-grabs


Wow...40% occupied, this one is an opportunity for someone. Seems like a great time to try to fill it up.


No one will, or should, buy this as an office leasing play to fill up the vacant space. This is absolutely a redevelopment play where you take out +/- 500k SF of office and add hotel and/or multifamily uses to occupy that space. That would be great for downtown to remove a good chunk of the office supply that will never be leased which will help the headline stats more than leasing alone could ever do.

Tnexster
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Tnexster » 05 Apr 2019 15:40

Why would it never be leased?

cowboyeagle05
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 06 Apr 2019 13:46

The building needs a serious renovation to be competitive so it will sell for a bottom dollar to the next company with a vision. Yeah, they have invested in the food court but the surrounding plaza and tenant amenities need serious work. It constantly loses tenants to other nearby buildings. They have lost tenants to Alto211 across the street because even without parking Alto211 looks like a better deal. I wonder how their parking ratio is as well as far as landing a decent sized tenant. If they have a seriously low parking ratio conversion may be their only way to absorb some space.

willyk
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby willyk » 07 Apr 2019 02:32

A new park coming on one side and Royal Blue grocery on the other—the timing seems good for some residential.

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Matt777
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Matt777 » 07 Apr 2019 19:26

I would hope we could see a residential/hotel conversion for at least a big chunk of this tower, but some of the floorplates are very wide and would be hard to configure residential floorplans. It does narrow near the top, which would be best for residential.

Floorplate examples:
Bottom, thickest part: https://easterling-tech.easterlingtechn ... te/600.pdf

Middle, could do residential but wasted space where bathrooms are now: https://easterling-tech.easterlingtechn ... e/3400.pdf

The good thing is that it looks like many office suites have custom plumbing layout arrangements, so it must be easy enough to plumb bathrooms in for residential.

Wonder what this office was? Looks like it almost has a little mini studio suite in it with a closet and private full bath, maybe a lawyer's office?: https://easterling-tech.easterlingtechn ... e/4705.pdf

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 07 Apr 2019 19:40

Matt777 wrote:Wonder what this office was? Looks like it almost has a little mini studio suite in it with a closet and private full bath, maybe a lawyer's office?: https://easterling-tech.easterlingtechn ... e/4705.pdf


Good guess.

https://www.bjciplaw.com/Contactus.html

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ArtVandelay
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Re: 1700 Pacific

Postby ArtVandelay » 07 Apr 2019 21:47

We never looked at the suites with bathrooms but I was really lobbying my company to get offices with private dumpers. Would have been sweeeet.


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