Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

900 Main

lakewoodhobo
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900 Main

Postby lakewoodhobo » 17 Aug 2018 14:00

No clue where to put this, but I noticed that the surface parking lot to the south of BofA Plaza and west of Belo Garden is closed and being demolished.

Screen Shot 2018-08-17 at 1.56.20 PM.jpg


It's not the proposed garage from 2015 because that was to the west of the Texas Club garage and required closing part of Austin St; however, it's owned by the same company as the tower and the land where the 15-story garage was proposed, so maybe they plan on building it here. Any ideas?


http://dallascad.org/AcctDetailCom.aspx ... 0393000000
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Tnexster
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tnexster » 17 Aug 2018 14:23

I like a good mystery

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dch526
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Re: 900 Main

Postby dch526 » 17 Aug 2018 14:55

Deleted: Wrong Address
Last edited by dch526 on 17 Aug 2018 16:35, edited 2 times in total.

Tnexster
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tnexster » 17 Aug 2018 15:01

^That's 1900 Main which is down by Main Street Gardens.

DPatel304
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Re: 900 Main

Postby DPatel304 » 17 Aug 2018 16:00

Definitely intriguing. I do hope it's more than a parking garage, but I guess we'll see.

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Matt777
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Matt777 » 17 Aug 2018 16:09

Tnexster wrote:I like a good mystery


I do too, but not where it has a surprise ending of a massive, bulky, ugly parking garage scarring the city when no additional garage parking is actually needed. It's just so their lease sheet can have a certain ratio of parking spaces/square footage that higher than competing buildings. It's not based on actual demand. GROSS.

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Re: 900 Main

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 17 Aug 2018 16:23

If it's not being splashed across the local media as the next great project in Downtown by Downtown Dallas Inc so I am very suspicious this is bad news. They could effectively build a short garage here with less height than the previously proposed one and leave us with another dead weight anchor right in the middle of what could be one of the most premium spots that could change the success of this end of Downtown. I am certainly waiting for the bad news to drop here. We need a major draw on this spot to drive people from the Statler all the way down to this end of the Main Street district and on towards the convention center. Even another nice hotel would be welcomed here.

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dch526
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Re: 900 Main

Postby dch526 » 17 Aug 2018 16:34

Tnexster wrote:^That's 1900 Main which is down by Main Street Gardens.


Yep, definitely fat fingered that one. No current permits for 900 Main.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 17 Aug 2018 19:13

This will be bad.

It certainly doesn't look promising that the company who owns the plot is a property MGMT company. Surely this is a garage.
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Tucy
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tucy » 17 Aug 2018 19:29

Matt777 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:I like a good mystery


It's just so their lease sheet can have a certain ratio of parking spaces/square footage that higher than competing buildings. It's not based on actual demand. GROSS.


Source?

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Matt777
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Matt777 » 18 Aug 2018 17:15

Tucy wrote:
Matt777 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:I like a good mystery


It's just so their lease sheet can have a certain ratio of parking spaces/square footage that higher than competing buildings. It's not based on actual demand. GROSS.


Source?


Sources: Commercial real estate in Dallas, Fountain Place, Trammell Crow Center, Bank of America Tower's parking garage plans, The Statler, Hampton Inn Downtown, Dallas in general.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: 900 Main

Postby joshua.dodd » 19 Aug 2018 04:16

cowboyeagle05 wrote:If it's not being splashed across the local media as the next great project in Downtown by Downtown Dallas Inc so I am very suspicious this is bad news. They could effectively build a short garage here with less height than the previously proposed one and leave us with another dead weight anchor right in the middle of what could be one of the most premium spots that could change the success of this end of Downtown. I am certainly waiting for the bad news to drop here. We need a major draw on this spot to drive people from the Statler all the way down to this end of the Main Street district and on towards the convention center. Even another nice hotel would be welcomed here.



As long as that horrible McDonalds is still standing, this area will never have good prospects. That McDonalds alone brings out some of the worst criminals.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 19 Aug 2018 08:44

joshua.dodd wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:If it's not being splashed across the local media as the next great project in Downtown by Downtown Dallas Inc so I am very suspicious this is bad news. They could effectively build a short garage here with less height than the previously proposed one and leave us with another dead weight anchor right in the middle of what could be one of the most premium spots that could change the success of this end of Downtown. I am certainly waiting for the bad news to drop here. We need a major draw on this spot to drive people from the Statler all the way down to this end of the Main Street district and on towards the convention center. Even another nice hotel would be welcomed here.



As long as that horrible McDonalds is still standing, this area will never have good prospects. That McDonalds alone brings out some of the worst criminals.


That's a little over the top. With that said the McD is certainly not helping.
The only way the area improves is if new investments come to the area.

The sneaky parking garage that surely is being built here will not help. Status quo.

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tamtagon
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Re: 900 Main

Postby tamtagon » 19 Aug 2018 09:34

If McDonalds was on top of things, that unit would be a primary test kitchen for the brand. Choice making among young adults is showing greater independence from the rearing generation; purchasing preferences for the next generation will be revealed in the downtown settings in Sunbelt cities.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: 900 Main

Postby lakewoodhobo » 19 Aug 2018 13:45

One of the dumbest things the city has ever done was abandon that section of Poydras so that McDonald's could have space for a dive-thru. As if they couldn't have built it anywhere else.

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dbent
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Re: 900 Main

Postby dbent » 19 Aug 2018 16:28

I used to live right up this street on the opposite side of Belo Garden, just saying as a former neighbor of the area removing the downtown Greyhound station would be the most impactful change to remove the criminal element ditto the DART West End bus station.....

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Pinhi
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Pinhi » 19 Aug 2018 16:33

dbent wrote:I used to live right up this street on the opposite side of Belo Garden, just saying as a former neighbor of the area removing the downtown Greyhound station would be the most impactful change to remove the criminal element ditto the DART West End bus station.....


Yeah they should move it over by the jail.

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Tucy
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tucy » 19 Aug 2018 21:42

Matt777 wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Matt777 wrote:
It's just so their lease sheet can have a certain ratio of parking spaces/square footage that higher than competing buildings. It's not based on actual demand. GROSS.


Source?


Sources: Commercial real estate in Dallas, Fountain Place, Trammell Crow Center, Bank of America Tower's parking garage plans, The Statler, Hampton Inn Downtown, Dallas in general.


So... apparently no source.

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vman
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Re: 900 Main

Postby vman » 20 Aug 2018 06:53

Tucy wrote:
Matt777 wrote:
Tucy wrote:

So... apparently no source.

Uhhhh, you're more than welcome to do some research yourself if you're doubtful of Matt777's info.

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Matt777
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Matt777 » 20 Aug 2018 09:35

Tucy wrote:
Matt777 wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Source?


Sources: Commercial real estate in Dallas, Fountain Place, Trammell Crow Center, Bank of America Tower's parking garage plans, The Statler, Hampton Inn Downtown, Dallas in general.


So... apparently no source.


If all of those examples still aren't enough for you, and just how commercial real estate in this city runs in general, then you can read it in print here in this aptly named D Magazine article, "Dear Dallas, Can You Please Stop Being So Dallas? Your Future Depends on It."

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... nds-on-it/

The article even mentions Bank of America Tower specifically. The section you will find interesting is this:

"If you ask someone what’s wrong with downtown Dallas, depending on who you talk to, you will usually hear two seemingly contradictory answers:

1) Too much parking
2) Too little parking
........
The second answer comes from anyone who is familiar with how downtown real estate works. Even though there appears to be an overabundance of parking lots and garages — so much so that it breaks up the cohesiveness of the center city — there is not nearly enough parking to compete with the parking that suburban commercial real estate buildings offer. And so, in order to lure new tenants downtown, real estate brokers are constantly trying to figure out ways to offer their clients more parking.

The result is that while downtown is experiencing a unprecedented renaissance, for every redo and rehab, there’s a fight for another parking garage. Two steps forward, one step back."


It is incredible that we are facing the possibility of this lot becoming an ugly, hulking, unnecessary and unwanted parking garage. This lot, at the prime corner of MAIN and GRIFFIN, two of the most important streets in Downtown Dallas, right next to the tallest and most recognizable tower in Dallas, directly across from the Belo Gardens Park, will be a massive concrete monstrosity that does not add to our urban fabric but CERTAINLY detracts.

According the ParkMe, the existing monstrous BofA Tower garage is currently 59% full on a Monday morning.... and never seems to get more than 70% full..... so where is the unmet demand? There is none.... the demand is from the commercial real estate brokers and their lease sheets. It's like a real estate bubble, but for parking.
https://www.parkme.com/lot/83011/bofa-p ... -dallas-tx

If we allow this behavior to continue, we lose the chance to make our city center the urban, bustling, full of life city center that it used to be and that our city forefathers envisioned. People will continue to move here then pack up their bags 2 or 3 years later for greener pastures. Eventually, nobody else will come if we don't make this city a desirable place to live and play. Detroit was VERY nice before it's downfall.....

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Re: 900 Main

Postby eburress » 20 Aug 2018 09:40

vman wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Matt777 wrote:

Uhhhh, you're more than welcome to do some research yourself if you're doubtful of Matt777's info.


There's that, but it was bizarre to ask for a source for a statement which was a person's opinion to begin with. Matt's original statement was clearly editorial.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 20 Aug 2018 10:00

Hmmm ... I've walked the property premise today. There are no building permits on display or information pertinent to the project.

There's an asphalt maintenance company currently removing the asphalt from the lot.

Perhaps they are repairing the surface lot.. but I don't know for sure.

I do see some heavy paving machinery sitting on the lot ; including one sweet CAT Roller.
Last edited by Tivo_Kenevil on 20 Aug 2018 10:09, edited 1 time in total.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: 900 Main

Postby lakewoodhobo » 20 Aug 2018 10:06

I'm starting to wonder if I misunderstood what was happening with the lot. Pretty sure I saw it closed on a weekday with heavy equipment digging it up. On the most recent Google Maps, it looks like it was in really good shape, so I don't think it needed repairs.

We'll see, I guess.

Tnexster
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tnexster » 20 Aug 2018 11:05

When I drove by on Friday it was closed with equipment on the lot but it wasn't torn up, didn't know if they just moved equipment in before getting started or what.

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itsjrd1964
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Re: 900 Main

Postby itsjrd1964 » 20 Aug 2018 11:31

The way I saw the article worded several months ago, BofA Plaza just *had* to have a second parking garage to be competitive. But I thought they were referring to the block to the west of the current garage. But nothing has happened, after all that buildup.

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Matt777
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Matt777 » 20 Aug 2018 11:32

lakewoodhobo wrote:I'm starting to wonder if I misunderstood what was happening with the lot. Pretty sure I saw it closed on a weekday with heavy machinery digging it up. On the most recent Google Maps, it looks like it was in really good shape, so I don't think it needed repairs.

We'll see, I guess.


Regardless, it is good to be vigilant considering our city leaders like to assist developers/business entities in pulling fast ones on the citizens of Dallas. Thankfully, some of them are starting to go to federal prison! More please!

So thank you for alerting us to this.

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Tucy
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tucy » 20 Aug 2018 12:00

Matt777 wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Matt777 wrote:
Sources: Commercial real estate in Dallas, Fountain Place, Trammell Crow Center, Bank of America Tower's parking garage plans, The Statler, Hampton Inn Downtown, Dallas in general.


So... apparently no source.


If all of those examples still aren't enough for you, and just how commercial real estate in this city runs in general, then you can read it in print here in this aptly named D Magazine article, "Dear Dallas, Can You Please Stop Being So Dallas? Your Future Depends on It."

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... nds-on-it/

The article even mentions Bank of America Tower specifically. The section you will find interesting is this:

"If you ask someone what’s wrong with downtown Dallas, depending on who you talk to, you will usually hear two seemingly contradictory answers:

1) Too much parking
2) Too little parking
........
The second answer comes from anyone who is familiar with how downtown real estate works. Even though there appears to be an overabundance of parking lots and garages — so much so that it breaks up the cohesiveness of the center city — there is not nearly enough parking to compete with the parking that suburban commercial real estate buildings offer. And so, in order to lure new tenants downtown, real estate brokers are constantly trying to figure out ways to offer their clients more parking.

The result is that while downtown is experiencing a unprecedented renaissance, for every redo and rehab, there’s a fight for another parking garage. Two steps forward, one step back."


It is incredible that we are facing the possibility of this lot becoming an ugly, hulking, unnecessary and unwanted parking garage. This lot, at the prime corner of MAIN and GRIFFIN, two of the most important streets in Downtown Dallas, right next to the tallest and most recognizable tower in Dallas, directly across from the Belo Gardens Park, will be a massive concrete monstrosity that does not add to our urban fabric but CERTAINLY detracts.

According the ParkMe, the existing monstrous BofA Tower garage is currently 59% full on a Monday morning.... and never seems to get more than 70% full..... so where is the unmet demand? There is none.... the demand is from the commercial real estate brokers and their lease sheets. It's like a real estate bubble, but for parking.
https://www.parkme.com/lot/83011/bofa-p ... -dallas-tx

If we allow this behavior to continue, we lose the chance to make our city center the urban, bustling, full of life city center that it used to be and that our city forefathers envisioned. People will continue to move here then pack up their bags 2 or 3 years later for greener pastures. Eventually, nobody else will come if we don't make this city a desirable place to live and play. Detroit was VERY nice before it's downfall.....


The D magazine article was indeed interesting. Thank you. But it did not even come close to addressing, let alone supporting, your claim that building developers are building parking for which there is no demand.

Thanks also for the reference to Parkme.com Keep in mind, that is parking that serves BofA Plaza, which currently stands at less than 62% occupancy.

Real estate developers don't intentionally spend tens of millions of dollars building parking (or other amenities) for which there is no demand. (See, for example, the fact that despite having made plans for a 1500 car garage to provide parking for a new (prospective) BofA Plaza tenant, nothing has yet been built.)
Likewise, office tenants don't generally have any interest in paying for a bunch of parking for which they have no use.
Last edited by Tucy on 20 Aug 2018 12:49, edited 1 time in total.

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itsjrd1964
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Re: 900 Main

Postby itsjrd1964 » 20 Aug 2018 12:21

dbent wrote:.... removing the downtown Greyhound station would be the most impactful change to remove the criminal element .....


It's too bad they don't do the DTD Greyhound like what they have at the ITC station in Fort Worth ( http://www.fwta.org/maps-schedules/stat ... r-centers/ ). The ITC has:
* primary Trinity Metro transit center
* Amtrak station
* TRE station
* TexRail station
* Enterprise rental car counter
* bike share spot/docking station
* Subway restaurant
* Fort Worth CVB visitor's center space
* Greyhound station
...all in one place, pretty good setting, people milling about but not loitering. I've been there twice, and am still amazed that somebody hasn't come up with something like that for in/near DTD.

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: 900 Main

Postby ContriveDallasite » 20 Aug 2018 13:24

itsjrd1964 wrote:
dbent wrote:.... removing the downtown Greyhound station would be the most impactful change to remove the criminal element .....


It's too bad they don't do the DTD Greyhound like what they have at the ITC station in Fort Worth ( http://www.fwta.org/maps-schedules/stat ... r-centers/ ). The ITC has:
* primary Trinity Metro transit center
* Amtrak station
* TRE station
* TexRail station
* Enterprise rental car counter
* bike share spot/docking station
* Subway restaurant
* Fort Worth CVB visitor's center space
* Greyhound station
...all in one place, pretty good setting, people milling about but not loitering. I've been there twice, and am still amazed that somebody hasn't come up with something like that for in/near DTD.



It is also a good reason why people are hesistant to use transit, it's not convenient.

The city should invest in a multimodal transport hub which would allign with the new HSR terminal. Imagine DART, Greyhound/Megabus/Private Mexican Bus companies, Amtrak and HSR all coming together to one hub. Activate the space with retail or shopping mall concept, and then you have created a destination as well as efficient transportation center which nearly every major European city has had for over a century now.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 20 Aug 2018 14:54

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... own-dallas

Here's the story from 2015.

The 15 story garage is probably what this

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Re: 900 Main

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 20 Aug 2018 15:03

No that's a different site. The city had to abandon Austin Street to the BofA tower owners to support that garage development. Effectively walling El Centro off. Yet they never moved forward past the city releasing the street to the developer. They still could be planning an entirely different garage here on this site though.

Tnexster
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tnexster » 21 Aug 2018 09:44

Noticed this morning they have an asphalt remover on site, didn't see that yesterday and there were men working.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 21 Aug 2018 10:47

Tnexster wrote:Noticed this morning they have an asphalt remover on site, didn't see that yesterday and there were men working.


Yeah I posted this yesterday. Also I noticed that they poured new concrete in the middle of the lot and created new curbs.
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muncien
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Re: 900 Main

Postby muncien » 21 Aug 2018 10:49

I hope I kept the receipt for my pitchfork...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 21 Aug 2018 11:13

LOL. It sounds like this is just fixing up the existing surface lot. Everyone can de-wad their panties.

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mcrdal15
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Re: 900 Main

Postby mcrdal15 » 21 Aug 2018 11:22

Its existence on a prime corner is bad enough to begin with. It's an even bigger slap in the face when they try to fix it, thus extending its life.

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Re: 900 Main

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Aug 2018 12:56

I'm guessing a parking booth?

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Re: 900 Main

Postby dfwcre8tive » 21 Aug 2018 18:24

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Tnexster wrote:Noticed this morning they have an asphalt remover on site, didn't see that yesterday and there were men working.


Yeah I posted this yesterday. Also I noticed that they poured new concrete in the middle of the lot and created new curbs.


Looks like the base for a super super slender tower!

http://skyscraper.org/EXHIBITIONS/TEN_TOPS/slender.php

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 29 Aug 2018 21:37

They're almost done laying down the asphalt
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Re: 900 Main

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 30 Aug 2018 08:24

Quick postulation does anyone think they are introducing any new parking technology so that's why the asphalt is being redone? I know the lot my company uses for employee parking owned by Headington is getting a substantial parking technology upgrade. Could they be doing something similar here maybe putting something under the asphalt?

The key news I am sharing here is Heainginton is changing parking lot operators for its Ross Avenue lots and making upgrades to the parking lot tech to control access and improve overall management.

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Re: 900 Main

Postby lakewoodhobo » 30 Aug 2018 13:15

Interesting view of this same block from around 1910 (I think). Poydras is the main street visible here with Commerce St in the foreground and Main St in the background. On the lower-right side where it says "Drugs" is where McDonald's is today. The rest of the photo is parking lots now with the exception of BoA Plaza which would be on the top left of the photo.

40215287_10213283072457374_6989849688425889792_o.jpg

Screen Shot 2018-08-30 at 12.59.01 PM.jpg
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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 30 Aug 2018 13:53

What a Shame.

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Re: 900 Main

Postby mcrdal15 » 30 Aug 2018 17:47

lakewoodhobo wrote:Interesting view of this same block from around 1910 (I think). Poydras is the main street visible here with Commerce St in the foreground and Main St in the background. On the lower-right side where it says "Drugs" is where McDonald's is today. The rest of the photo is parking lots now with the exception of BoA Plaza which would be on the top left of the photo.

40215287_10213283072457374_6989849688425889792_o.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-08-30 at 12.59.01 PM.jpg


On the current picture, I don't know which is worse -- the surface parking lots or the drive thru McDonalds in a freakin' DOWNTOWN!! Man, we have a long way to go.

"They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot." That should be Downtown Dallas's anthem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvtJPs8IDgU

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: 900 Main

Postby ContriveDallasite » 31 Aug 2018 03:04

It will probably take another 50 years until the large surface lots downtown are all developed. Bummer that so much of the momentum in Plano and Frisco could have gone in to making these sites turn dirt.

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Re: 900 Main

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Aug 2018 08:46

The problem is getting caught up in the idea that what happens in the burbs is Dallas missing out. The reality is many projects like Toyota would have never come to Dallas. Many projects in Frisco are in Frisco/Plano because they wanted that type of isolationism from the big city and its "problems". Business executives for many companies tend to prefer the areas that they can control a lot of factors and companies like Toyota have company cultures that are geared towards suburban access expectations and cultural norms. Toyota for example itself has a lot of diversity but its very engineered diversity. Being in the suburbs allows them to get lots of incentives but also avoid urban city norms that even newer places like Uptown offers companies. A companies culture is a huge indicator of where they are likely to land and plenty of companies out there are suburban oriented and will always be so. AT&T is one of those companies I think could swing either way and it seems its DNA, for now, is still a little more urban-oriented. While many companies may be trying to attract millennials they each have their own way of doing it. For some its a city center campus in a historically walkable area with bars, restaurants, museums and mass transit. Others prefer to plot down in a suburban office complex next to freeways and offer those same amenities from suburban development that pops up around them. I think getting caught up in every bit of news of development in the burbs is a fail on Dallas part is not worth the effort. Thinking that way does a disservice to the reality that not every bit of energy expounded into a suburban shopping center, and tilt wall office complex is dollars that would have gone to Dallas if not we did blank or had better etc.

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Re: 900 Main

Postby Tnexster » 31 Aug 2018 14:32

Imagine Dallas if they had preserved everything and built the high-rises around the original downtown instead of tearing it all down.

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itsjrd1964
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Re: 900 Main

Postby itsjrd1964 » 31 Aug 2018 14:37

Toyota's CA offices were in Torrance prior to their move here, not L.A. or San Francisco, so unless there was a dramatic shift in their corporate culture prior to or during the move here, they weren't going to choose a CBD or center-city location to move to.

As for the topic, it's good that there is at least one surface-lot operator or owner wanting their lot to look good while it's around. Too many of the other ones have shabby (or worse) appearances. Yes, we all know there are wasted or unfulfilled development opportunities in the CBD because of them, but I guess some land owners would rather have the "sure thing" of the parking revenue coming in.

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Re: 900 Main

Postby DPatel304 » 31 Aug 2018 16:17

itsjrd1964 wrote:As for the topic, it's good that there is at least one surface-lot operator or owner wanting their lot to look good while it's around. Too many of the other ones have shabby (or worse) appearances. Yes, we all know there are wasted or unfulfilled development opportunities in the CBD because of them, but I guess some land owners would rather have the "sure thing" of the parking revenue coming in.


Parking lots that are shabby and old give us hope that something might replace them in the next few years.. :D

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Re: 900 Main

Postby Warrior2015 » 31 Aug 2018 17:57

itsjrd1964 wrote:Toyota's CA offices were in Torrance prior to their move here, not L.A. or San Francisco, so unless there was a dramatic shift in their corporate culture prior to or during the move here, they weren't going to choose a CBD or center-city location to move to.

As for the topic, it's good that there is at least one surface-lot operator or owner wanting their lot to look good while it's around. Too many of the other ones have shabby (or worse) appearances. Yes, we all know there are wasted or unfulfilled development opportunities in the CBD because of them, but I guess some land owners would rather have the "sure thing" of the parking revenue coming in.

Right. They wanted to choose a location where they have good schools and where people could buy homes and they also looked at safety family friendly etc. Unfortunately, for the most part, dallas doesn't fit that criteria, however being near dallas is a plus for the entire region and they are benefiting from it. Oh well though, now I have reasons to venture off to the burbs now on the weekends !


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