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Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

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maconahey
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Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby maconahey » 06 Mar 2018 09:22

The Marriott Uptown project is located in the heart of Dallas’ Uptown neighborhood and will be a full service Marriott branded hotel.
The hotel will be a half block from the Katy Trail, which is Dallas’s most active biking and pedestrian trail. The site is within a short walk of over five million square feet of Dallas’s best office space and also over 60 restaurants and bars. Marriott will be exceptionally positioned to benefit from both business and leisure travelers.

The project will include 255 guest rooms in a 14-story concrete tower over three levels of a below-ground garage.
Amenities will include a ground-floor restaurant, coffee shop, pool deck, and 13,000 square feet of meeting space. Room finishes will be in-line with the Marriott Modern design scheme creating a contemporary environment for working and relaxing.



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http://www.alamomanhattan.com/modules/c ... tt-uptown#

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maconahey
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby maconahey » 06 Mar 2018 09:24

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 67&row=329
Received Date: 02/27/2018
Entered Date: 02/27/2018

Construction Info Structure Summary
Notice Of: CONSTR
Duration: PERM (Months: 0 Days: 0)
Work Schedule: 05/01/2018 to 07/01/2018

Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: Marriott Uptown


Proposed
Site Elevation: 470
Structure Height:167
Total Height (AMSL):637

DPatel304
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby DPatel304 » 06 Mar 2018 09:29

Looks good to me! Is it just me, or have the number of projects slowed down recently? It seems like we are seeing more smaller projects in under-developed areas like East Dallas, West Dallas, Oak Cliff, and the Cedars, and the big projects in Uptown have slowed. I suppose it makes sense, since land in Uptown is far more expensive these days, so you can't just throw up some cheap apartment building anymore, you have to develop something worthwhile otherwise it just doesn't make sense.

It says this is the address of the project, so are they tearing down whatever is already there:
EDIT: I'm not sure if this is the address of the actual development. It could be the address of an office they have or something.
3000 Fairmount Street
Dallas, TX 75201

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3000+ ... 96.8070716

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby joshua.dodd » 06 Mar 2018 10:49

I believe we are finally starting to see a slowdown in the market. Even the tower that was supposed to replace Idle Rich off McKinney and Boll fell through.

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jrd1964
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby jrd1964 » 06 Mar 2018 12:19

There was a previous thread about this project, but I'm not sure of the title. The hotel is going in east of Nick & Sam's where an apartment/condo complex is now; Wolf/Fairmount/Carlisle are the surrounding streets.

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tanzoak
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby tanzoak » 07 Mar 2018 01:31

DPatel304 wrote:Looks good to me! Is it just me, or have the number of projects slowed down recently? It seems like we are seeing more smaller projects in under-developed areas like East Dallas, West Dallas, Oak Cliff, and the Cedars, and the big projects in Uptown have slowed. I suppose it makes sense, since land in Uptown is far more expensive these days, so you can't just throw up some cheap apartment building anymore, you have to develop something worthwhile otherwise it just doesn't make sense.


Over the last 12 months, only 4,800 multifamily units have been issued building permits in Dallas, compared to over 12,000 18 months ago. So yeah, multifamily projects across the board have slowed down recently. Single-family projects (which includes townhouses), on the other hand, have actually increased over that time period, from 1,500 to 2,100.

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dzh
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby dzh » 07 Mar 2018 06:55

It's too bad this Marriott isn't a JW Marriott. I'm sure this will still be a nice infill however

DPatel304
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Mar 2018 08:54

tanzoak wrote:Over the last 12 months, only 4,800 multifamily units have been issued building permits in Dallas, compared to over 12,000 18 months ago. So yeah, multifamily projects across the board have slowed down recently. Single-family projects (which includes townhouses), on the other hand, have actually increased over that time period, from 1,500 to 2,100.


Wow, some interesting numbers for sure. That's probably wise, as we need time to let the market absorb all the new apartments coming online this year.

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kingpin
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby kingpin » 07 Mar 2018 17:22

joshua.dodd wrote:I believe we are finally starting to see a slowdown in the market. Even the tower that was supposed to replace Idle Rich off McKinney and Boll fell through.



what makes you say that?

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scott2
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby scott2 » 07 Mar 2018 19:37

dzh wrote:It's too bad this Marriott isn't a JW Marriott. I'm sure this will still be a nice infill however

JW Marriotts tend to be upscale convention properties and that lot is too small. It would make a better second Convention Center Hotel. There is a big surface parking across the street that would be perfect.

Tnexster
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tnexster » 12 Mar 2018 21:10

I have wondered when JW will make an appearance in Dallas.

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tamtagon
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby tamtagon » 12 Mar 2018 21:20

Probably with the train to Houston ---- without a subsidy I hope

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Jul 2018 09:00

Btw fence went up around some of these properties a week or so ago.

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uptown74
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby uptown74 » 09 Jul 2018 19:29

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Btw fence went up around some of these properties a week or so ago.


I saw that too! I hope they don't tear down all the buildings and then its just sits there for years like that Old Warsaw site.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 Jul 2018 08:49

The Old Warsaw site was a family looking to make a splash so they moved forward without a big signature tenant signed to move in. Banks don't lend without a lead tenant so they never got off the ground. In this case, we have a developer that has a tenant a hotel operator with a flag so I am sure it will work out.

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R1070
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby R1070 » 12 Jul 2018 21:48

It looks like the whole development site is fenced off with an Alamo Manhattan banner on the fence.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Jul 2018 09:11

Cool a friend lives in the apartments within an earshot so he is about to have to get used to construction noise but he is excited to have the potential coffee shop.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Warrior2015 » 13 Jul 2018 10:45

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Cool a friend lives in the apartments within an earshot so he is about to have to get used to construction noise but he is excited to have the potential coffee shop.

So its about to start?

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Jul 2018 11:15

Yeah, I'm not sure how much demo has started but the fences are up and at least preliminary demolition seems to have begun. I was not able to confirm a dumpster onsite but then again I haven't personally been there since last week when I drove by.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Warrior2015 » 14 Jul 2018 16:49

R1070 wrote:It looks like the whole development site is fenced off with an Alamo Manhattan banner on the fence.

This is good uptown is finally getting some much needed slightly more budget friendly hotels.

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trueicon
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby trueicon » 14 Jul 2018 19:28

I don't understand putting this particular hotel in Uptown instead of Downtown. The type of client that books at a full service Marriott hotel is (generally speaking) a business traveler who (presumably) is traveling for a convention. The problem is that the convention center (downtown) is not walking distance. It would make far more sense to make this one of Marriott's other brands - like Courtyard by Marriott or AC Hotel - which target a more rounded mixture of business and leisure customers. This hotel is positioned far better to attract leisure travel business, where the proximity to Uptown's many restaurants and bars is indeed a big marketing feature.

This is a major pet peeve of me. The Hilton Anatole is another example of this poorly thought out anti-Urban planning by hotel operators who place their flagship full service hotel farther out from the CBD, which of course contributes to sprawl, pollution, etc. Business travelers = CBD. When major conventions -- the bread and butter of full service hotels -- shop around different cities, they want a collection of full service hotels all walkable from each other and from the convention center. We all love development, but what we really love is the right type of development. I think folks are underestimating how much of a negative this will be for all the progress in our urban core. Two steps forward, one step backwards I suppose.

Marriott got it backwards. If you put the full service Marriott where the soon to open downtown Courtyard by Marriott (or the recently opened AC hotel) is, and you put the Courtyard by Marriott (or the AC hotel) here, it makes FAR more sense. All they need to do is change the signs and I'll collect my consulting fee.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tnexster » 15 Jul 2018 22:07

Personally I like the idea of Uptown getting some infill hotels like this with event space contained in the building that will more than likely be booked well in advance. This one is good, the WV hotel is great, in reality I'd love to see more of these scattered about.

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jrd1964
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby jrd1964 » 16 Jul 2018 06:14

trueicon wrote:I don't understand putting this particular hotel in Uptown instead of Downtown. The type of client that books at a full service Marriott hotel is (generally speaking) a business traveler who (presumably) is traveling for a convention. The problem is that the convention center (downtown) is not walking distance. It would make far more sense to make this one of Marriott's other brands - like Courtyard by Marriott or AC Hotel - which target a more rounded mixture of business and leisure customers. This hotel is positioned far better to attract leisure travel business, where the proximity to Uptown's many restaurants and bars is indeed a big marketing feature.

This is a major pet peeve of me. The Hilton Anatole is another example of this poorly thought out anti-Urban planning by hotel operators who place their flagship full service hotel farther out from the CBD, which of course contributes to sprawl, pollution, etc. Business travelers = CBD. When major conventions -- the bread and butter of full service hotels -- shop around different cities, they want a collection of full service hotels all walkable from each other and from the convention center. We all love development, but what we really love is the right type of development. I think folks are underestimating how much of a negative this will be for all the progress in our urban core. Two steps forward, one step backwards I suppose.

Marriott got it backwards. If you put the full service Marriott where the soon to open downtown Courtyard by Marriott (or the recently opened AC hotel) is, and you put the Courtyard by Marriott (or the AC hotel) here, it makes FAR more sense. All they need to do is change the signs and I'll collect my consulting fee.


As far as brand representation goes, I'm not sure why none of Marriott's select-service brands (including Courtyard) aren't in Uptown yet, other than how much the land costs. As for having 2 Marriott locations so close together, I'm not sure about that either. There really isn't anything, though (I don't think), stopping the DTD City Center/Plaza of the Americas property from eventually becoming a JW Marriott, if the owners (or Marriott) want. I guess whoever the owner/franchisee of the DTD Courtyard is, they like doing select-service properties. Also, the lot that the Courtyard will be on, really wouldn't be big enough for a full-service hotel property IMO. They'd need the whole block at least. And now that Marriott has acquired Starwood, they have a LOT more brand representation in/near DTD than ever. With the DTD Courtyard upcoming, and the recently-added TownePlace & Fairfield at Butler Brothers, there will be 13 hotels with a Marriott brand in that area before the Uptown Marriott even opens.

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trueicon
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby trueicon » 16 Jul 2018 14:32

Fair points about Starwood. By my math, however, the only full service (i.e., offers convention space etc.) Marriott-Starwood hotels within the CBD are Westin and Sheraton. The others are mostly boutique hotels that aren't really oriented towards the convention market. Compare that to the CBD of any other similar major city in the U.S., from Houston to Atlanta to Los Angeles (I'm not even talking well developed downtown cities like Chicago and NYC), and you'll see that number is very small.

I stand by my point that a business oriented full service Marriott makes far more sense in the CBD, where there are so many surface parking lots waiting to be developed. I could name off at least 20 spots downtown that make far more sense for this hotel. The big convention groups (e.g., Mary Kay, etc.) are not going to bus convention goers to/from Kay Bailey Convention Center to this hotel.

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Tucy
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tucy » 16 Jul 2018 17:39

trueicon wrote:Fair points about Starwood. By my math, however, the only full service (i.e., offers convention space etc.) Marriott-Starwood hotels within the CBD are Westin and Sheraton. The others are mostly boutique hotels that aren't really oriented towards the convention market. Compare that to the CBD of any other similar major city in the U.S., from Houston to Atlanta to Los Angeles (I'm not even talking well developed downtown cities like Chicago and NYC), and you'll see that number is very small.

I stand by my point that a business oriented full service Marriott makes far more sense in the CBD, where there are so many surface parking lots waiting to be developed. I could name off at least 20 spots downtown that make far more sense for this hotel. The big convention groups (e.g., Mary Kay, etc.) are not going to bus convention goers to/from Kay Bailey Convention Center to this hotel.


Marriott City Center?

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trueicon
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby trueicon » 16 Jul 2018 19:05

Doh! Yes, thank you, that makes three full service Marriott-Starwood hotels in the CBD.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby ForumFollowsFunction » 27 Jul 2018 16:27

Just drove past this. They were bulldozing the buildings this afternoon.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tnexster » 31 Jul 2018 09:52

Alamo Manhattan Lands $61M for Marriott Hotel Construction

http://product.costar.com/home/news/shared/193813

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Warrior2015
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Warrior2015 » 18 Sep 2018 22:14

maconahey wrote:
The Marriott Uptown project is located in the heart of Dallas’ Uptown neighborhood and will be a full service Marriott branded hotel.
The hotel will be a half block from the Katy Trail, which is Dallas’s most active biking and pedestrian trail. The site is within a short walk of over five million square feet of Dallas’s best office space and also over 60 restaurants and bars. Marriott will be exceptionally positioned to benefit from both business and leisure travelers.

The project will include 255 guest rooms in a 14-story concrete tower over three levels of a below-ground garage.
Amenities will include a ground-floor restaurant, coffee shop, pool deck, and 13,000 square feet of meeting space. Room finishes will be in-line with the Marriott Modern design scheme creating a contemporary environment for working and relaxing.



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http://www.alamomanhattan.com/modules/c ... tt-uptown#

Groundbreaking was last week.
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TNWE
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby TNWE » 19 Sep 2018 09:52

trueicon wrote:Fair points about Starwood. By my math, however, the only full service (i.e., offers convention space etc.) Marriott-Starwood hotels within the CBD are Westin and Sheraton. The others are mostly boutique hotels that aren't really oriented towards the convention market. Compare that to the CBD of any other similar major city in the U.S., from Houston to Atlanta to Los Angeles (I'm not even talking well developed downtown cities like Chicago and NYC), and you'll see that number is very small.

I stand by my point that a business oriented full service Marriott makes far more sense in the CBD, where there are so many surface parking lots waiting to be developed. I could name off at least 20 spots downtown that make far more sense for this hotel. The big convention groups (e.g., Mary Kay, etc.) are not going to bus convention goers to/from Kay Bailey Convention Center to this hotel.


Hi- Regular business traveler here - the hotel flag/branding or level of service is about priority six or seven when booking a hotel. No one says "oh, well the AC hotel is for young, hip, socialites, and the Springhill is for families who want extra space and free breakfast for the kids, so I guess I have to book a full-service Marriott because I'm a business traveler"- hotels are going to fill their rooms with whoever's willing to pay the current rate.

Anymore, companies are just as sensitive about expenses as leisure travelers, and rank-and-file workers are pretty strictly held to policy. If the expense policy caps hotels at say $200/night, that often eliminates a lot of the full-service brands in city center areas. If a traveler cares about their Marriott rewards points, it's a choice between driving out a ways to get a "real" Marriott that's under the cap, or staying at a Courtyard or Springhill downtown and still getting Marriott points, perks, etc.

Of course there's always going to be the Convention business that goes to the large-scale, full-service CBD hotels, but a 255 key Marriott isn't big enough to matter when you've got the Omni, Hyatt, and Sheraton all offering 1000+ rooms. Plus, there's a not-insignificant amount of business activity in Uptown, and until recently, all of the hotel offerings in Uptown save the Hyatt House were very much in the luxury/boutique category. I think my boss would have a heart attack if I submitted an expense report with 3 nights at the Ritz or ZaZa. There's definitely a need for a mainstream hotel in Uptown.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby eburress » 19 Sep 2018 10:29

TNWE wrote:Hi- Regular business traveler here - the hotel flag/branding or level of service is about priority six or seven when booking a hotel. No one says "oh, well the AC hotel is for young, hip, socialites, and the Springhill is for families who want extra space and free breakfast for the kids, so I guess I have to book a full-service Marriott because I'm a business traveler"- hotels are going to fill their rooms with whoever's willing to pay the current rate.

Anymore, companies are just as sensitive about expenses as leisure travelers, and rank-and-file workers are pretty strictly held to policy. If the expense policy caps hotels at say $200/night, that often eliminates a lot of the full-service brands in city center areas. If a traveler cares about their Marriott rewards points, it's a choice between driving out a ways to get a "real" Marriott that's under the cap, or staying at a Courtyard or Springhill downtown and still getting Marriott points, perks, etc.

Of course there's always going to be the Convention business that goes to the large-scale, full-service CBD hotels, but a 255 key Marriott isn't big enough to matter when you've got the Omni, Hyatt, and Sheraton all offering 1000+ rooms. Plus, there's a not-insignificant amount of business activity in Uptown, and until recently, all of the hotel offerings in Uptown save the Hyatt House were very much in the luxury/boutique category. I think my boss would have a heart attack if I submitted an expense report with 3 nights at the Ritz or ZaZa. There's definitely a need for a mainstream hotel in Uptown.


Also a regular business traveler, and the hotel flag, brand, and/or level of service is priority 1 for me. Regardless where my business is in Dallas, I always stay at Hotel Zaza when I'm in town.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby trueicon » 19 Sep 2018 10:36

TNWE wrote: I guess I have to book a full-service Marriott because I'm a business traveler"- hotels are going to fill their rooms with whoever's willing to pay the current rate.


That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm a business traveler too by the way. Business hotel ==/== convention hotel. The bread and butter of full service convention hotels like Hilton and Marriott isn't the solo traveling business consultant who's in Dallas for a week training seminar at Ernst and Young. I'm referring to the large convention blocks, like the annual meeting for the American Marketing Association or American Dental Association. Those conventions bring 10's of thousands of attendees to Dallas. For these big groups, hotel centrality absolutely matters. They will book 5+ hotels for their attendees, and then they create shuttle routes between the conference hotels and the convention center. For these groups, it makes no sense to run a shuttle all the way to a single hotel outpost in Uptown. I buy a business hotel in Uptown. I have a harder time buying a convention hotel in Uptown.

In years past, when urban planning was a dirty word in Dallas, full service convention hotels were built along the Lower Stemmons corridor such as the Hilton Anatole. That is precisely the type of urban sprawl Dallas was notorious for in the past that IMHO is antithetical to a forum about smart urban development. That *is* something that has improved over time, but putting a convention hotel this far from the convention center is not exactly a step in the right direction.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tnexster » 19 Sep 2018 10:56

I like hotels like this, not a huge 1,000 room behemoth and located in a cool area of town. This one will do well, perfect size for the area.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby TNWE » 19 Sep 2018 11:27

trueicon wrote:
TNWE wrote: I guess I have to book a full-service Marriott because I'm a business traveler"- hotels are going to fill their rooms with whoever's willing to pay the current rate.


That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm a business traveler too by the way. Business hotel ==/== convention hotel. The bread and butter of full service convention hotels like Hilton and Marriott isn't the solo traveling business consultant who's in Dallas for a week training seminar at Ernst and Young. I'm referring to the large convention blocks, like the annual meeting for the American Marketing Association or American Dental Association. Those conventions bring 10's of thousands of attendees to Dallas. For these big groups, hotel centrality absolutely matters. They will book 5+ hotels for their attendees, and then they create shuttle routes between the conference hotels and the convention center. For these groups, it makes no sense to run a shuttle all the way to a single hotel outpost in Uptown. In years past, when urban planning was a dirty word in Dallas, full service hotels were built along the Lower Stemmons corridor such as the Hilton Anatole. That *is* something that has improved over time, but putting a convention hotel this far from the convention center is not exactly a step in the right direction.

This is not a convention hotel, though. It's a 250 room hotel that complies with the franchise standards set by Marriott International for that brand. Period. The fact that the franchisee decided to brand it as a Marriott and not a Courtyard or AC or Spring Hill has absolutely zero to do with they type of traveler or group that might stay there. It just means they think the area can support a hotel with nicer finishes and a restaurant & coffee shop instead of a free breakfast with self-serve powdered eggs and drip coffee.

There's such a dearth of mainstream hotels in uptown (for plebes like me who can't swing the ZaZa every time :roll: ), so I have no doubt this hotel will be a success, even without convention traffic.

Nationwide, there are hundreds of Marriott/Hilton/Hyatt Regency branded hotels that get zero convention traffic and lack ballroom/meeting space, and a whole lot of limited/select-service properties located in downtown areas that do get convention groups, both in their own spaces and by virtue of proximity to the convention center. In all likelihood, Marriott International gives franchisees exclusivity over a certain area, meaning the Marriott City Center gets to be the only "Marriott" inside the loop. By my count, there are no duplicated Marriott brands inside the loop, so until someone decides to open a JW downtown, the CBD is tapped out for full-service brands.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby tamtagon » 19 Sep 2018 11:34

I'd expect the building to look better in such a desirable part of town.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tnexster » 19 Sep 2018 11:41

I know this isn't a convention center hotel but I thought they did have some conference room space to accommodate smaller groups.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby trueicon » 19 Sep 2018 22:45

Tnexster wrote:I know this isn't a convention center hotel but I thought they did have some conference room space to accommodate smaller groups.


Exactly, that was my read on it as well. My whole beef is that they went out of their way to focus on the convention/conference features of the hotel. I agree with everyone that it makes sense to do a business oriented hotel in Uptown. It's a very desirable part of town, and there's plenty of great places for a solo business traveler to walk to for a drink/dinner after returning to the hotel from a busy day of training. But positioning it as a convention hotel when it's not in the CBD makes no sense to me. I suppose they'll figure this out over time, but it will be an expensive lesson. The recently opened Canopy by Hilton in West Village gets this right -- they emphasize the rooftop bar/restaurant feature, which is exactly what the business client who stays in this part of town is interested in.

Ironically, Marriott emphasizes the rooftop bar/restaurant feature of their recently opened CBD Courtyard by Marriott. Like I said earlier, if you switch the new CBD Courtyard by Marriott and this new full service Marriott in Uptown, it makes far more sense!

Speaking of the CBD Courtyard, I gather the old Dallas Morning News building is still for sale. A convention hotel would make a lot of sense in that location since it's so close to the convention center, the Hyatt, and the upcoming extension of the Streetcar to the Omni. Maybe that could even spur the restaurant/retail activation of Union Station, similar to Union Station in Denver.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tucy » 20 Sep 2018 07:47

trueicon wrote:
Tnexster wrote:I know this isn't a convention center hotel but I thought they did have some conference room space to accommodate smaller groups.


Exactly, that was my read on it as well. My whole beef is that they went out of their way to focus on the convention/conference features of the hotel. I agree with everyone that it makes sense to do a business oriented hotel in Uptown. It's a very desirable part of town, and there's plenty of great places for a solo business traveler to walk to for a drink/dinner after returning to the hotel from a busy day of training. But positioning it as a convention hotel when it's not in the CBD makes no sense to me. I suppose they'll figure this out over time, but it will be an expensive lesson. The recently opened Canopy by Hilton in West Village gets this right -- they emphasize the rooftop bar/restaurant feature, which is exactly what the business client who stays in this part of town is interested in.

Ironically, Marriott emphasizes the rooftop bar/restaurant feature of their recently opened CBD Courtyard by Marriott. Like I said earlier, if you switch the new CBD Courtyard by Marriott and this new full service Marriott in Uptown, it makes far more sense!

Speaking of the CBD Courtyard, I gather the old Dallas Morning News building is still for sale. A convention hotel would make a lot of sense in that location since it's so close to the convention center, the Hyatt, and the upcoming extension of the Streetcar to the Omni. Maybe that could even spur the restaurant/retail activation of Union Station, similar to Union Station in Denver.


I think you have a misunderstanding of the full-service hotel market. They do not all rely on convention traffic, even less so do they all rely on traffic generated by or feeding into major convention centers. There are thousands of full-service hotels in the U.S. that are not within walking distance of convention centers. Full service hotels host a LOT of meetings and conferences (and other events) that have no connection with our need to be near a major convention center.

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trueicon
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby trueicon » 21 Sep 2018 00:34

Tucy wrote:I think you have a misunderstanding of the full-service hotel market.

Thanks, but I don't think so.
trueicon wrote:I agree with everyone that it makes sense to do a business oriented hotel in Uptown. It's a very desirable part of town, and there's plenty of great places for a solo business traveler to walk to for a drink/dinner after returning to the hotel from a busy day of training. But positioning it as a convention hotel when it's not in the CBD makes no sense to me.

Tucy wrote:There are thousands of full-service hotels in the U.S. that are not within walking distance of convention centers. Full service hotels host a LOT of meetings and conferences (and other events) that have no connection with our need to be near a major convention center.

Right, because many of these thousands of full service hotels are the "de facto" convention hotel in the smaller areas they serve. This is completely an apples to oranges comparison. The Hilton in Ocala Florida, for example, isn't competing with convention traffic in Orlando.

Sorry, I just don't think this was the best location they could've picked in the greater Dallas area for this specific type of hotel. At this very location, I could think of other brands or at least features that would make more sense. And I'm not even mentioning the very uninspiring design that does no justice to the surrounding area.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Sep 2018 08:58

Either way the worst case the hotel could flip flags if it doesn't work out as the brand you suggest. Course I guess the true worse case is the hotel quickly goes out of business but I doubt it would before being taken over by another flag/management operation. I will tell you though gaybourhood customers will love having another not too far option for Pride, Bear Dance, Purple Party, etc. The gaybourhood has long desired more close by hotels besides the pricey Warwick and its huge waste of land they are sitting on in the gaybourhood.

Plus you add the Scottish Rite Hospital business and I was surprised Old Parkland hasn't figured out a way to add in a boutique hotel as well as part of their development. They have Omni HQ onsite after all.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 21 Sep 2018 09:22

I don hate the design per se... But I don't like it either. Just very.. bland to say the least.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Warrior2015 » 21 Sep 2018 12:26

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I don hate the design per se... But I don't like it either. Just very.. bland to say the least.

Yeah however I think the ground level will be pretty nice.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby lakewoodhobo » 21 Sep 2018 13:14

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Plus you add the Scottish Rite Hospital business and I was surprised Old Parkland hasn't figured out a way to add in a boutique hotel as well as part of their development. They have Omni HQ onsite after all.


I'm also surprised TRT Holdings, which owns Gold's Gym as well as Omni, couldn't figure out a way to open a new fitness club in Oak Lawn to replace the one in Uptown that may not be around too much longer. Then again, I just realized that TRT is looking to sell the Gold's part of the business.

Still think this hotel should've been a boutique brand like Moxy, but that can always change in the future.

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Tucy
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby Tucy » 21 Sep 2018 13:29

trueicon wrote:
Tucy wrote:I think you have a misunderstanding of the full-service hotel market.

Thanks, but I don't think so.
trueicon wrote:I agree with everyone that it makes sense to do a business oriented hotel in Uptown. It's a very desirable part of town, and there's plenty of great places for a solo business traveler to walk to for a drink/dinner after returning to the hotel from a busy day of training. But positioning it as a convention hotel when it's not in the CBD makes no sense to me.

Tucy wrote:There are thousands of full-service hotels in the U.S. that are not within walking distance of convention centers. Full service hotels host a LOT of meetings and conferences (and other events) that have no connection with our need to be near a major convention center.

Right, because many of these thousands of full service hotels are the "de facto" convention hotel in the smaller areas they serve. This is completely an apples to oranges comparison. The Hilton in Ocala Florida, for example, isn't competing with convention traffic in Orlando.


Thanks for confirming your misunderstanding of the full-service hotel market. ;) I don't know of any reason to think this hotel has its sights set on being a convention hotel. It's a full-service hotel, with meeting/function space, which full-service hotels tend to have. Full-service hotels have meeting/function space without having any pretense of being "convention" hotels. But if it makes you happy, I guess we can say that this hotel can be the "de facto" convention hotel for its neighborhood.

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TNWE
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby TNWE » 21 Sep 2018 17:00

trueicon wrote:
Tucy wrote:I think you have a misunderstanding of the full-service hotel market.

Thanks, but I don't think so.

trueicon wrote:Sorry, I just don't think this was the best location they could've picked in the greater Dallas area for this specific type of hotel. At this very location, I could think of other brands or at least features that would make more sense. And I'm not even mentioning the very uninspiring design that does no justice to the surrounding area.


Marriott International wouldn't sign off on a franchise agreement if they didn't think the brand could work at that location. They have a lot more data to back their decisions than any armchair developer. They also have a lot of control over those things, so they can nix a JW Marriott in Waxahachie, for example, even if the developer has the money and really, really wants to build it.

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trueicon
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby trueicon » 30 Sep 2018 09:37

Tucy wrote:Thanks for confirming your misunderstanding of the full-service hotel market. ;)

I have zero desire to reveal my occupation in an attempt to win a silly argument with an anonymous internet forum battle, so you're welcome to believe whatever you like :) Time will tell who is correct. Personally I think there are more important things to worry about in life and it's not worth the time to attempt to correct and/or insult every person on the internet who has a different opinion than you.

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eburress
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Marriott Uptown

Postby eburress » 30 Sep 2018 19:28

trueicon wrote:
Tucy wrote:Thanks for confirming your misunderstanding of the full-service hotel market. ;)

I have zero desire to reveal my occupation in an attempt to win a silly argument with an anonymous internet forum battle, so you're welcome to believe whatever you like :) Time will tell who is correct. Personally I think there are more important things to worry about in life and it's not worth the time to attempt to correct and/or insult every person on the internet who has a different opinion than you.


You're smart to not waste your time/energy on something so clearly futile.


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