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Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 11 Dec 2017 11:31
by LBK2013
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... s-shopping

Construction will start in the next few weeks on an urban style mixed-use development in Dallas' popular Deep Ellum district.
The one-block project by North Carolina-based Crescent Communities will replace a strip of old industrial buildings at Canton Street and Malcolm X Boulevard just east of downtown.
The 7-story development will bring apartments and streetfront retail to an area that's seeing widespread new development.
"Canton Street carries a lot of traffic," said Michael Blackwell, Crescent Communities' regional development manager. "Our idea is to put a food and beverage outlet on the corner.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 11 Dec 2017 11:33
by LBK2013
This is the strip of building they are presumably tearing down for this project.

1513011487-cantonstreet.jpg

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 11 Dec 2017 11:48
by DPatel304
Looks like a decent project, but can we not fill in the surface parking lots before we start tearing down some of the existing buildings?

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 30 Dec 2017 09:26
by jrd1964
Another article:
http://dallas.towers.net/2017/12/29/dee ... -projects/

The project will include a pool on the roof level, have underground parking, and is set for a Sept. 2019 completion.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 09 May 2018 14:54
by maconahey
Image

Image

Image

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 09 May 2018 16:51
by eburress
They're not wasting any time with this one!

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 09 May 2018 17:49
by DPatel304
Yup, and I'm really excited for some more residential to come to Deep Ellum. The area could use some more daytime traffic, and developments like this one will create a little more activity further south/east.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 09 May 2018 22:27
by willyk
Moved to DE 1.0

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 23 Oct 2019 16:30
by Tnexster
Nice pic of the Novel project.....

As Deep Ellum project wraps up, developer eyes Turtle Creek for 20-story tower

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... creek.html

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 24 Oct 2019 09:29
by Hannibal Lecter
The development will also have 10,585 square feet of ground-floor retail, which is being leased up by Venture Commercial. No retail leases have yet been announced.


That retail is going to be be hard to lease. Miniscule pedestrian traffic.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 24 Oct 2019 10:26
by Warrior2015
Tnexster wrote:Nice pic of the Novel project.....

As Deep Ellum project wraps up, developer eyes Turtle Creek for 20-story tower

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... creek.html

Turned out alot better than I expected. Very nice!

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 24 Oct 2019 10:37
by cowboyeagle05
This property being as big as it is and when it does open will change pedestrian patterns. There are two properties opening on this side of Deep Ellum so I am sure walking patterns will evolve.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 24 Oct 2019 23:53
by willyk
Hannibal Lecter wrote:
The development will also have 10,585 square feet of ground-floor retail, which is being leased up by Venture Commercial. No retail leases have yet been announced.


That retail is going to be be hard to lease. Miniscule pedestrian traffic.


How about some neighborhood services—dry cleaners, nails, salons, fitness club, bodega, sub shop, urgent care—DE has nearly none of the above.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 07:17
by dzh
willyk wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:
The development will also have 10,585 square feet of ground-floor retail, which is being leased up by Venture Commercial. No retail leases have yet been announced.


That retail is going to be be hard to lease. Miniscule pedestrian traffic.


How about some neighborhood services—dry cleaners, nails, salons, fitness club, bodega, sub shop, urgent care—DE has nearly none of the above.



I don't want to be a downer (especially considering how happy I am that they actually even built retail for this project), but I am very curious as to how long it's going to take them to lease out the retail space. Their Bishop Arts location has just had empty retail sitting for months now.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 09:08
by cowboyeagle05
The thing to remember about empty retail space in new projects like that is its not always a lack of interest from potentially good tenants. Sometimes owners/developers hold off on leasing commercial space for any number of reasons. Are there for lease signs up? I wonder who is even marketing the spaces.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 11:08
by Hannibal Lecter
willyk wrote:How about some neighborhood services—dry cleaners, nails, salons, fitness club, bodega, sub shop, urgent care—DE has nearly none of the above.


Dry cleaners: There's not much demand. Not many people in this neighborhood wear suits. Glo had a location on Commerce by Exposition Park, but it closed due to lack of business. There's a cleaners on Live Oak by the LCC.

Nails: Lots of them already. Googling "nail salon near me" shows nine in the neighborhood.

Salons: Hell, there's practically a hair place on every block. We even have own barber college. "hair salon near me" returns 14. "barber near me" returns 5.

Fitness Club: CrossFit, East Side Athletic Club, Yoga, MMA (two of them), Aikido and the Baylor Tom Landry Center just across the tracks. And don't forget Club Dallas on Swiss if that's the way you lean...

Bodega: Nobody can compete with 7-Eleven. Second location under construction.

Sub Shop: Uncle Uber's, baby. Subway and Which Wich couldn't compete. And there was that place by the DART station. Jimmy John's, maybe? Come on, do you really think Deep Ellum lacks for places to eat? :-)

Urgent Care: Have you noticed that big building with the "BAYLOR" sign? We have our own Level 1 Trauma Center.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 11:10
by DPatel304
^Thanks for the insight. In your opinion, what is it that Deep Ellum lacks at this point? Based on your post, I really just think the only thing we need is more residential in and adjacent to Deep Ellum so it can become more of a self-sustaining neighborhood, rather than relying on commuter traffic for business.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 11:12
by Hannibal Lecter
dzh wrote:I don't want to be a downer (especially considering how happy I am that they actually even built retail for this project), but I am very curious as to how long it's going to take them to lease out the retail space. Their Bishop Arts location has just had empty retail sitting for months now.


I think the Ambrose (by the DART station) provides a good baseline. The city forced them to include ground floor retail to get their zoning. Only two spaces ever leased, and both closed relatively quickly. Eventually they got the city to let them out of the requirement and they converted the retail to apartments.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 11:21
by Tnexster
Maybe the city requires too much. At least too much at current density levels.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 11:27
by Hannibal Lecter
DPatel304 wrote:^Thanks for the insight. In your opinion, what is it that Deep Ellum lacks at this point? Based on your post, I really just think the only thing we need is more residential in and adjacent to Deep Ellum so it can become more of a self-sustaining neighborhood, rather than relying on commuter traffic for business.


The number one thing lacking has been a gas station, but the new 7-Eleven is fixing that.

I do miss have a full service liquor store in the neighborhood. Spirits closed when the whole city went wet. A Total Wine would be great.

I'm trying to think of what I personally have to go out of the neighborhood to buy and the only things that come to mind are groceries (available within a five minute drive, and Tom Thumb is coming to Live Oak), specialty pet supplies (the shop on Commerce is great, but only only caters to dogs and cats), auto supplies (five minutes away) and clothing. For the latter I usually go online or to Target, which is just a few minutes away.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 13:21
by tamtagon
Hannibal Lecter wrote:The number one thing lacking has been a gas station, but the new 7-Eleven is fixing that.


Fifteenish years ago, downtown Dallas was struggling to come out of hibernation. Every fresh coat of paint was a big deal because it was sign of progress! One small deal that got a touch of press was the opening of a 7-11, but that event was the first major signal that the city was coming back to downtown. While there's still a decade of continued growth before I'd really call the CBD a 'city' again, the progress made within a generation is remarkable.

A new 7-11 gas station in Deep Ellum is HUGE. It's an important marker, crossing a threshold in the gentrification of Old East Dallas.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 13:55
by muncien
I know the term 'live work' gets thrown around a lot these days... But it seems many of these ground floor 'retail' suites would make good, true 'live work' spaces. With so many side hustle, be your own boss, independent-creative types, it just makes sense. I know that's not nearly as flashy as a fancy hat or hemp clothing store, but it is more realistic. Also, DE could certainly use a shipping store to serve self employed and small business folks.

I know many of these five story, cookie cutter, wrapped garage complexes we have built here in Las Colinas were done in such a way that the ground floor had to be built to suit retail in the future. So, even though demand may not be there now, it can easily be converted in the future. But until then, the gal selling candles online is welcome to keep the place occupied, instead of an ever present VACANT sign.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 13:56
by muncien
muncien wrote:I know the term 'live work' gets thrown around a lot these days... But it seems many of these ground floor 'retail' suites would make good, true 'live work' spaces. With so many side hustle, be your own boss, independent-creative types, it just makes sense. I know that's not nearly as flashy as a fancy hat or hemp clothing store, but it is more realistic. Also, DE could certainly use a shipping store to serve self employed and small business folks.

I know many of these five story, cookie cutter, wrapped garage complexes we have built here in Las Colinas were done in such a way that the ground floor had to be built to suit retail in the future. So, even though demand may not be there now, it can easily be converted in the future. But until then, the gal selling candles online is welcome to keep the place occupied, instead of an ever present FOR LEASE sign.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 14:11
by cowboyeagle05
The deal with the Ambrose was the wrong place, wrong time and badly designed. Deep Ellum was dead at that time and the retail fronted the station and nothing else. There was no foot traffic in that area yet and the retail didn't wrap around the building drawing people from the main foot trafficked areas on Main, Elm and Commerce. The sidewalks on Malcolm X along that side of the building are nicely landscaped but you walk past blocks that look like nothing is happening worth visiting. One of the things they teach in architecture school when it comes to pedestrian design is that humans are drawn by presumed activity and if you stood at the corner of Malcolm and Elm back then you wouldn't look at the back of the Ambrose and empty parking lots and assume there was anything worth visiting. Today it's pretty much the same story. 90% of the people walking down Elm at Malcolm probably don't even notice the DART station is right there.

The Ambrose was designed badly for that retail so duh it failed. They didn't care about it succeeding and the city checked the box at the time because there is only so much they can do to pressure developers to build mixed-use. Most developers don't like the complication of retail and residential so many times they aren't willing to make design decisions that will ensure things like ground-floor retail will succeed.

Re: Deep Ellum: Novel Deep Ellum

Posted: 25 Oct 2019 16:11
by tamtagon
muncien wrote:He doesn't know how to use the three sea shells...


I finally looked up that quote!!! Awesome