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Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

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quixomniac
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby quixomniac » 04 Jun 2020 17:52

Phase one plans will turn the historic 1940s Dallas Morning News building, designed by architect George Dahl, into a 130-room boutique hotel with 250 apartments on top, a 2,000-2,500-seat concert facility in the former press room, and 12-15 bars and restaurants along the street. Washburne hopes to complete phase one in 24 months. The former TXCN studios will be torn down to make way for a new 40-story convention center and hotel with 1,100 rooms, but design and construction are now on hold until 2021.


Ill have to hold my breath on it and see the design first. 12-15 bars doesnt seem sustainable. The 250 apartments on top sounds like a good counter balance. The phase 2 40 story hotel better have some residences too.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tucy » 05 Jun 2020 11:49

cowboyeagle05 wrote:First phase he now says will be 2023. The 40 story hotel I imagine would be the second phase 2025?


That's not what the article says. It says that the completion of both phases has been pushed back to 2023 and Washburne hopes to complete Phase one (130-room boutique hotel with 250 apartments on top, a 2,000-2,500-seat concert facility in the former press room, and 12-15 bars and restaurants along the street) in 24 months.

Design and construction of the 40-story convention hotel are on hold until 2021 (so it seems 2023 is a little ambitious for having it all completed).

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tucy » 05 Jun 2020 11:51

quixomniac wrote:
Phase one plans will turn the historic 1940s Dallas Morning News building, designed by architect George Dahl, into a 130-room boutique hotel with 250 apartments on top, a 2,000-2,500-seat concert facility in the former press room, and 12-15 bars and restaurants along the street. Washburne hopes to complete phase one in 24 months. The former TXCN studios will be torn down to make way for a new 40-story convention center and hotel with 1,100 rooms, but design and construction are now on hold until 2021.


Ill have to hold my breath on it and see the design first. 12-15 bars doesnt seem sustainable. The 250 apartments on top sounds like a good counter balance. The phase 2 40 story hotel better have some residences too.


I would recommend [i]not[i] holding your breath. ;-)

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby THRILLHO » 05 Jun 2020 13:45

12-15 restaurants/bars and a concert venue is attempting to create an entirely new district of downtown within a few short years.
Well, godspeed. After the east quarter, this is the next neglected pocket of the loop that I'm hoping gets more attention, followed by the smart district area after that. Hopefully Hunt gets started on whatever they want to do with the Reunion arena site.

Union station deserves to be an actual focal point for the city. When I visited Denver it was a great experience taking the train from the airport directly to their beautiful union station that drops you off into a walkable and busy part of their downtown. I would love for visitors attending conventions to have a similar experience as they make the short walk from the station to the omni.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 05 Jun 2020 14:20

The problem with that vision and I share it is that Denver's Union Station is actually located in a important spot for transit and the movement of people. DART's most pressing transportation station is the West End. Union Station is basically a ceremonial station and doesnt have a lot of room for extras to make it a center point.
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby THRILLHO » 05 Jun 2020 15:41

Yeah, it's disappointing. Comparing it to my Denver scenario it fails even in the most basic sense in that there's no direct route from DFW to Union.
But regardless, if this part of downtown gets more developed I hope Union st. gets some amount of attention and isn't relegated to being mostly event space and an unpleasant waiting room forever.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 06 Jun 2020 13:57

I agree and hope the second floor being rented out as event space turns into a food hall or something that makes it more actually used.
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby DBadger » 08 Jun 2020 11:57

"Yeah, it's disappointing. Comparing it to my Denver scenario it fails even in the most basic sense in that there's no direct route from DFW to Union.
But regardless, if this part of downtown gets more developed I hope Union st. gets some amount of attention and isn't relegated to being mostly event space and an unpleasant waiting room forever."

That could be easily fixable. The tracks exist and there should be an hourly train that goes directly between DFW and Union Station. May be one stop at Las Colinas Urban center. That would be 26-29 minutes instead of almost an hour.The other trips can go through all the stops. I would rather stay longer at the airport or downtown and wait for the direct train than to be on the Orange line for over an hour. Many cities have this option.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby TNWE » 08 Jun 2020 14:27

DBadger wrote:"Yeah, it's disappointing. Comparing it to my Denver scenario it fails even in the most basic sense in that there's no direct route from DFW to Union.
But regardless, if this part of downtown gets more developed I hope Union st. gets some amount of attention and isn't relegated to being mostly event space and an unpleasant waiting room forever."

That could be easily fixable. The tracks exist and there should be an hourly train that goes directly between DFW and Union Station. May be one stop at Las Colinas Urban center. That would be 26-29 minutes instead of almost an hour.The other trips can go through all the stops. I would rather stay longer at the airport or downtown and wait for the direct train than to be on the Orange line for over an hour. Many cities have this option.


The first part is very easy (I proposed something similar in the D2 Subway thread). The existing wye has a single LRT track between Union and Victory (the other two legs are dual track), which is primarily used for non-revenue movements (typically positioning extra AAC post-event trains). To add a second track (not sure that it's totally required, but I'm inclined to say it would help keep the other routes clear) they'd need to move a TPSS and re-work the switching and signaling to make sure there's space for at least a 2 car train to occupy the wye without blocking the other routes. They'd also need to add an extra platform at Union station to accommodate a terminating train, which could come from the row of parking spaces facing the existing NB platform.

As for the second part, there aren't many passing opportunities on DART's LRT network, so an express train wouldn't save much time. The only place I can think of is Bachman station, where there are 3 through tracks, so you'd need to time the "express" such that it leaves Union right before a regular Orange line reaches West End, then catches up with and passes the preceding local at Bachman (using the central track). I'd need to dig up the Orange/Green line EIS docs to see if there's anything about the speed limits and dwell times, since all of the existing published schedules are based on trains speeding up/slowing down for each station and waiting 30-60 seconds at each one, but my hunch is that there's not a huge amount of time to be saved by skipping stops between Downtown <-> DFW. The segment from Belt Line to DFW alone takes 8 minutes, the UofD to Bachman segment takes 6, and the portion through the Urban center has a much lower speed limit that most sections due to the winding route. You might knock 5 minutes off each of the Union <-> Bachman and Bachman <-> DFW segments.

The bigger benefit would be the ability for someone leaving downtown to wait inside the building until the "Airport Express" arrives, then board and wait in air-conditioned comfort without having to worry about missing the train, rather than having to walk to West End and wait in the elements. It's much easier for out of town visitors to comprehend than telling them to take Red/Blue train to West End, then cross over to the other side and wait for an Orange Line train.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby I45Tex » 08 Jun 2020 17:53

The bigger benefit would be the ability for someone leaving downtown to wait inside the building until the "Airport Express" arrives, then board and wait in air-conditioned comfort without having to worry about missing the train, rather than having to walk to West End and wait in the elements. It's much easier for out of town visitors to comprehend than telling them to take Red/Blue train to West End, then cross over to the other side and wait for an Orange Line train.


That's well worth DART's attention

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Jun 2020 09:23

Which in theory would be solved by the D2 plan cause DART will build a underground station near West End because DART plans for that area to be its hub. This is of course ignoring the fact D2 has been delayed further by recent events but gosh darn it we will have the silver line...
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby TNWE » 09 Jun 2020 10:41

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Which in theory would be solved by the D2 plan cause DART will build a underground station near West End because DART plans for that area to be its hub. This is of course ignoring the fact D2 has been delayed further by recent events but gosh darn it we will have the silver line...


My recollection was that all of the metro center station entrances were focused around the West Transfer center, Rosa Parks Plaza, and West end station. When I asked one of the engineers at a D2 open house why there weren't any entrances (or tie-ins to the existing pedestrian tunnels) on the Elm street end of the station, he stated that their firm initially included those, but that DART requested they be removed from the concept design.

It's really baffling that DART could think of Metro Center as the "hub" but only place entrances on the least-dense side of the station. While a lot of assumptions about cities and transit are changing in the world right now, I'm reasonably certain that Dallas will remain hot 5-6 months out of the year. That makes it critical that DART spread entrances to subway stations as far as possible in every direction to maximize the number of workers/residents within a 5 minute walk of an access point. Once you're in the A/C, another 5 minutes of walking to the platform itself is nothing- just look at how sprawling subway stations in NY/London/Chicago are on google maps. Instead, we have a city obsessed with the idea that walling off tunnels will magically bring foot traffic to the surface, when in reality it just drives entire companies out to the suburbs (something that will no doubt accelerate given current conditions).

Taking it back to Union Station, it really does make more sense to treat it as the "hub" of the transit network downtown - it has every form of transit plus intercity rail, it's just not super convenient to many workplaces or attractions. A big development on the DMN property + some renovations to open up the interior of Union station and add some restaurants/coffee shops would do a lot for that area of downtown. I know that Wolfgang Puck closed their restaurant at the top of reunion tower - does anyone know if their catering/event operation in Union Station was also closed?

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Jun 2020 11:20

According to the website its still in operation. I think one of the articles about the tower closure said the same but I would have to look that up. The catering of Union Station is apparently a separate thing and not a part of the hotel like I originally thought. Wolfgang Catering is separate operation all to itself rather than tied to 360 and the hotel that closed.
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby MC_ScattCat » 09 Jun 2020 13:35

This whole are on the SW side of the CBD has the land and connections to really grow.

If I were in sim city mode I'd make this area full of mid-rises with a tower or two. Make the streets very pedestrian/bike friendly. It's got good connections to intercity rail/Amtrak/ highways/ trails/ TRE/ and HSR soon. Make the grassy area of the old arena into a a park. All those empty lots down there are begging to be developed. I really can't understand why it hasn't yet. Just across the viaduct it's exploding with new apartments.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby TNWE » 09 Jun 2020 13:49

MC_ScattCat wrote:This whole are on the SW side of the CBD has the land and connections to really grow.

If I were in sim city mode I'd make this area full of mid-rises with a tower or two. Make the streets very pedestrian/bike friendly. It's got good connections to intercity rail/Amtrak/ highways/ trails/ TRE/ and HSR soon. Make the grassy area of the old arena into a a park. All those empty lots down there are begging to be developed. I really can't understand why it hasn't yet. Just across the viaduct it's exploding with new apartments.


Honestly, all of the government buildings (Federal buildings, courthouses, and county offices) in the area kinda depress the vibrancy - they're not the sort of places you just wander through without some purpose, and not necessarily big employment hubs (I know the GSA doesn't target 100% occupancy for federal buildings in case they need to relocate staff on a short-term basis, and Dallas County has been playing musical chairs while renovating their buildings).

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Jun 2020 17:26

Also the old land for the Arena is better primed for an office complex than a park which is what it is being proposed for by its owner. I don't see the reason for opening a park in a dark corner of Downtown that's surrounded by highways and a busy railway on the other side. This is why Amazon proposals had buildings there but an elevated park between the two viaducts since they would better connect with transportation for park-goers. Of course, maybe propose those darn soccer fields Senator Roy West is so gung-ho about for under I-45 with plenty of parking for the reality that most users will have to drive from miles around to use them.
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby CTroyMathis » 10 Jun 2020 08:36

Wolfgang Puck catering op at Union Station is indeed still in business, I went ahead and called them out of curiosity. However, I didn't ask and do wonder - where is their commissary or some such where they do logistics and prepare food then? Do they actually do it at all at Union Station? From food delivery and storage to prep to cooking to plating and then table/buffet service?

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 Jun 2020 11:10

Well I forgot they also cater for The Perot Museum of Nature and Science so I imagine they probably have a kitchen somewhere in a warehouse on Riverfront Blvd if their actual prep kitchen is not at Union Station.
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby CTroyMathis » 10 Jun 2020 11:23

Yeah, I imagine from my experience with San Martín, the Design District or anything around Riverfront is ideal for that operation indeed. Seems under the radar, though.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby dfwcre8tive » 09 Jul 2020 15:53

Landmark Dallas Morning News building still headed for a redo
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2020/07/09/landmark-dallas-morning-news-building-still-headed-for-a-redo/

...

He said the original building designed by noted Dallas architect George Dahl will be used for a luxury hotel.

“We are pushing ahead with the smaller building in front,” Washburne said. “It’s only going to be a 130-room boutique.

“I think there is going to be a market for it in 2023,” he said. “What we don’t have at that end of downtown is a cool, hip boutique hotel.”

Other parts of the old newspaper campus will be repurposed for restaurants, entertainment and residential uses.

Washburne said the former printing presses that are on the lower levels of the complex will become a performance venue. “I’m going to do an entertainment facility in there, kind of like Gilley’s or the Bomb Factory,” he said.

...

He also plans to build a 1,100-room hotel at the south end of the old News campus.

...

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby tamtagon » 09 Jul 2020 16:55

Finally! the area surrounding the convention center will start catering to tourists.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tucy » 09 Jul 2020 18:22

dfwcre8tive wrote:Landmark Dallas Morning News building still headed for a redo
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2020/07/09/landmark-dallas-morning-news-building-still-headed-for-a-redo/

...

He said the original building designed by noted Dallas architect George Dahl will be used for a luxury hotel.

“We are pushing ahead with the smaller building in front,” Washburne said. “It’s only going to be a 130-room boutique.

“I think there is going to be a market for it in 2023,” he said. “What we don’t have at that end of downtown is a cool, hip boutique hotel.”

Other parts of the old newspaper campus will be repurposed for restaurants, entertainment and residential uses.

Washburne said the former printing presses that are on the lower levels of the complex will become a performance venue. “I’m going to do an entertainment facility in there, kind of like Gilley’s or the Bomb Factory,” he said.

...

He also plans to build a 1,100-room hotel at the south end of the old News campus.

...


So... Steve is now reporting what we read about elsewhwere a month ago...

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Kelley USA » 10 Jul 2020 09:12

Is there any doubt this development will have a spectacular Mi Cocina with a rooftop patio!?!

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 Jul 2020 10:52

Copy and Paste journalism at its best.
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tnexster » 10 Jul 2020 12:07

I want to see this 1,100 room hotel.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tnexster » 10 Jul 2020 12:11

How developer Ray Washburne wants to change the flow of downtown Dallas


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... s_headline

“I want to make it like a Main Street from the Sixth Floor (Museum) through the convention center so that is the natural walkway, where people from the Hyatt will walk through, and from the Omni will flow through,” he said. “Dallas downtown is really an east-west street system. This will create the first north-south connector that we’ve had.”

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby DPatel304 » 10 Jul 2020 14:06

Sounds good to me! The walk from the Omni to anywhere Downtown isn't really pleasant, even though it's not all that far.

The Hyatt, on the other hand, just feels too isolated from the rest of Downtown to really make it walkable to anything.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tucy » 10 Jul 2020 15:28

Tnexster wrote:How developer Ray Washburne wants to change the flow of downtown Dallas


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... s_headline

“I want to make it like a Main Street from the Sixth Floor (Museum) through the convention center so that is the natural walkway, where people from the Hyatt will walk through, and from the Omni will flow through,” he said. “Dallas downtown is really an east-west street system. This will create the first north-south connector that we’ve had.”


Can't get past the paywall. What street is he imagining to the North-South "Main Street"?

In any event, gotta give him credit for a healthy imagination...
The site seems ill-connected to the convention center, and it appears it would be difficult to remedy this. I don't see it as a good site at all for what he has in mind. Looks like a good site for parking garages, printing presses, satellite dishes and the like. ;-)

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby CTroyMathis » 10 Jul 2020 16:10

It seems like this imagination is very abbreviated in the article and perhaps other articles elsewhere. I haven't followed this too closely because I don't have high expectations here in current format. He is a Dahl fan, though.

I think his "main street" is really just within his property, Record St. (as it dissolves into the property currently) where the bars/restaurants would be. Perhaps somehow Record St. could turn sharply to Market St. (a bit before it ramps up to become a viaduct) and connects it to the CC barely, really just the utilitarian parking/loading side of the Omni. Or, just assume Young St. Who knows. It's all a little poorly portrayed. And, people from the Hyatt? Lol. If during the proper hours and good tourist intel, they can go subterre to Union tracks and after coming up go over there. Or take the long way around which isn't a desire line either.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby dallaz » 10 Jul 2020 16:22

Here’s Ray Washburne discussing the plans for the Old DMN Building.

https://youtu.be/AnWfSuR_fuM

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tnexster » 11 Jul 2020 16:38

Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:How developer Ray Washburne wants to change the flow of downtown Dallas


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... s_headline

“I want to make it like a Main Street from the Sixth Floor (Museum) through the convention center so that is the natural walkway, where people from the Hyatt will walk through, and from the Omni will flow through,” he said. “Dallas downtown is really an east-west street system. This will create the first north-south connector that we’ve had.”



Can't get past the paywall. What street is he imagining to the North-South "Main Street"?

In any event, gotta give him credit for a healthy imagination...
The site seems ill-connected to the convention center, and it appears it would be difficult to remedy this. I don't see it as a good site at all for what he has in mind. Looks like a good site for parking garages, printing presses, satellite dishes and the like. ;-)


Maybe this helps a little....

“I want to make it like a Main Street from the Sixth Floor (Museum) through the convention center so that is the natural walkway, where people from the Hyatt will walk through, and from the Omni will flow through,” he said. “Dallas downtown is really an east-west street system. This will create the first north-south connector that we’ve had.”

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tucy » 12 Jul 2020 09:07

Tnexster wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:How developer Ray Washburne wants to change the flow of downtown Dallas


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... s_headline




Can't get past the paywall. What street is he imagining to the North-South "Main Street"?

In any event, gotta give him credit for a healthy imagination...
The site seems ill-connected to the convention center, and it appears it would be difficult to remedy this. I don't see it as a good site at all for what he has in mind. Looks like a good site for parking garages, printing presses, satellite dishes and the like. ;-)


Maybe this helps a little....

“I want to make it like a Main Street from the Sixth Floor (Museum) through the convention center so that is the natural walkway, where people from the Hyatt will walk through, and from the Omni will flow through,” he said. “Dallas downtown is really an east-west street system. This will create the first north-south connector that we’ve had.”


No, sorry, but repeating the same words does not help at all.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby tamtagon » 12 Jul 2020 09:44

Looks like Houston Street is ideal for a streetcar.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby tamtagon » 12 Jul 2020 09:45

Tnexster wrote:I want to see this 1,100 room hotel.


It'll feed off the Houston Train as much as anything.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby Tnexster » 12 Jul 2020 13:01

Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:
Tucy wrote:

Can't get past the paywall. What street is he imagining to the North-South "Main Street"?

In any event, gotta give him credit for a healthy imagination...
The site seems ill-connected to the convention center, and it appears it would be difficult to remedy this. I don't see it as a good site at all for what he has in mind. Looks like a good site for parking garages, printing presses, satellite dishes and the like. ;-)


Maybe this helps a little....

“I want to make it like a Main Street from the Sixth Floor (Museum) through the convention center so that is the natural walkway, where people from the Hyatt will walk through, and from the Omni will flow through,” he said. “Dallas downtown is really an east-west street system. This will create the first north-south connector that we’ve had.”


No, sorry, but repeating the same words does not help at all.


Looking at a map, the one obvious street that connects both the Belo property and the 6th floor museum is Houston Street. It actually connects Holocaust, 6th Floor, Dealey Plaza, the Courthouse, Union Station, the Streetcar and is next to the Convention Center.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 508 Young Street (old Dallas Morning News building)

Postby tamtagon » 12 Jul 2020 16:00

And connects continental pedestrian bridge and AAC. With enough moxy, this route could also roll by the Mavericks HQ & experience, Anatole and market center.


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