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Dallas Smart District

dfwcre8tive
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby dfwcre8tive » 19 Oct 2017 15:19

Matt777 wrote:The only thing that bugs me is that it looks like the 105 year old Eagle's Nest Cathedral would be demolished, and a parking structure put in its place. It's hard to tell but I don't see it in the renderings. There's got to be a way to preserve it. It doesn't take up much land and could become a great restaurant space or something creative. It would be a beautiful food hall.


Maybe the like The Mark in Seattle, a new skyscraper that is turning a historic church building into a luxury hotel's event space (it was preserved thanks to a creative new owner that saw value in the historic structure):

The preservation battle gained national attention because it pitted the public’s right to control zoning over a religious institution’s right to freely practice religion. In a 5-4 vote the Washington state Supreme Court ruled in favor of the congregation and allowed for the demolition of the building without city landmark protection. After years of negotiation an agreement to save the building and construct a new facility for the congregation was reached in 2007.

The original intention for the property by the congregation was to demolish the sanctuary building and build a 34 story high rise on the half block parcel. After purchase by Daniels the plans for the property now include the development of a new architecturally stunning high rise building that retains and compliments the historic sanctuary building.


There are other examples too. In Dallas, any project on blocks in this area would be wise to incorporate the area's history.

http://www.themarkseattle.com/

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dd_dweller
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby dd_dweller » 19 Oct 2017 16:10

Matt777 wrote:The only thing that bugs me is that it looks like the 105 year old Eagle's Nest Cathedral would be demolished, and a parking structure put in its place. It's hard to tell but I don't see it in the renderings. There's got to be a way to preserve it. It doesn't take up much land and could become a great restaurant space or something creative. It would be a beautiful food hall.

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If I'm not mistaken, it looks like its still in the renderings posted. I don't think they own the land where that building is located.

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dallaz
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby dallaz » 19 Oct 2017 18:43

8-Million-Square-Foot Dallas Smart District Also Eyeing Amazon

https://www.dmagazine.com/business-econ ... ng-amazon/

“Everybody was running for Amazon and Steve [Van Amburgh, the CEO of KDC,] and I looked at each other, and we did decide to propose this as one of the options,” Hoque says. “If Amazon decided to be a part of our smart district—and they could be—they could drive a lot of change. But we are not banking on Amazon at all. We started designing this way before anyone began talking about Amazon coming to this city.”


“We are not in a hurry, and we’ll take our time [to find] someone who is thinking about the future.”

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dukemeredith
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby dukemeredith » 19 Oct 2017 21:02

That last quote makes me less sure that this thing gets off the ground.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Cbdallas » 20 Oct 2017 11:36

I would love to see this happen just like I would love to have seen the Spire developement happen when it was announced but I am afraid this is looking like Spire. A big land grab but no tenants.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 20 Oct 2017 12:02

^word

Just like Spire, this swath of land represents as desirable redevelopment potential as any in Texas, it's just a matter of time, well, as long as the bottom doesn't fall out.

For now, all I'm going to say anything about the name "Dallas Smart District" is that I'll say something about it later.

I would look at entities with direct activities in Dallas AND Houston to fill up this side of town, because of the HSR of course. As HSR becomes more and more a reality rather than a good idea, I think we might even see a new streetcar route planned to loop through Smart District concurrent to the meet-up of OCTA and MATA. Any business or resident with daily or weekly activity in both cities will is a potential customer, and if there's an expansion, it'll likely happen in Dallas if the plan is cohesive and promoted. I would not want Amazon at this location, but the publicity coming from a bid is good.

Smart District will compete with Matthews Southwest for office workers, residents and tourism associated with the trains between Dal-Hou.

I could even see Exxon moving from Irving to Dallas one day....

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whi5125
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby whi5125 » 20 Oct 2017 13:29

The thing that has really put a hold on building big projects like this, and skyscrapers in general, has been the damn banks. No one will lend money without a signed tenant anymore unlike before the recession where you could be allowed to make a business case for the market you were building in and why your development would attract tenants to get returns and profits. If that whole build it and they will come attitude was allowed to happen even just a little bit these days these projects would be far more likely to get off the ground. Because even without Amazon, there is demand.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby muncien » 20 Oct 2017 15:49

When asked about what 'Smart District' means on Fox 4 news this morning, the CEO said that they are designing and building for the next generation and not the last. He said the whole automobile mentality needs to change. They will be building based on ride sharing and autonomy. No more big hulking 'dinosaur parking garages' (his words, not mine). So... that was kinda good to hear... Also, he led on to believe that this development was targeting foreign clients... Oh, and it had a food hall component. Seems to be the theme of the week. :)
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 20 Oct 2017 16:14

How many halls can a city have?.. not enough apparently.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby DPatel304 » 20 Oct 2017 16:20

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:How many halls can a city have?.. not enough apparently.


Seriously. I just updated both the Sylvan Thirty and East Dallas threads, because two food halls were announced in both of those areas, on top of the one announced for West End and the current one in the Farmer's Market. The worst part is, all of these barely qualify as food halls. They all sounds so very small, to the point where it just seems pointless in my eyes.

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muncien
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby muncien » 20 Oct 2017 16:24

DPatel304 wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:How many halls can a city have?.. not enough apparently.


Seriously. I just updated both the Sylvan Thirty and East Dallas threads, because two food halls were announced in both of those areas, on top of the one announced for West End and the current one in the Farmer's Market. The worst part is, all of these barely qualify as food halls. They all sounds so very small, to the point where it just seems pointless in my eyes.


I was thinking the same thing... Legacy seems to have gotten it right. But, if we're loose with the definition, the KFC/Taco Bell combo down the street could classify as a 'Food Hall'.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 23 Oct 2017 10:06

I wouldn't worry. The too small and insignificant food halls will quietly fade away. Uptown Market is struggling as well and it has a lot of things going for it. The food halls that actually have something worth visiting will retain customers while the trendy only places will get replaced with another trendy Dallas restaurant swiftly after they close. Keep in mind it's just another word for Food Court which Downtown office towers have plenty of already. BofA has one and so does Renaissance Tower and those work because they such a large captive audience who just wants a cheap sub sandwich. In the case of this development if they build half of the buildings not even including the tallest they will generate lots of lunch-goers looking for variety on a weekly basis so an internal food hall and one on the edge like the Farmers Market is totally doable. Not to mention the start of any construction of this development will generate additional development in close proximity generating more potential customers.

I imagine that dress like structure pictured in the middle of most of the renderings is the food hall. I wondered what signature element that was for. They make sure you see it in almost every angle so it had to be for some featured element of the development besides a restaurant or office lobby.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 23 Oct 2017 10:24

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Keep in mind it's just another word for Food Court....


haha I was going to say it's just another word for cafeteria!

Repackaging and recycling a proven concept is usually a safe bet, as long as the product answers to consumers seasonal/regular tweaks will keep it viable.

I'm curious about The Dallas Smart District.... somewhere along the way, I think it was mentioned the development will rollout (hopefully) without overabundant parking and the same intense commuter-focused infrastructure that's been popular and municipally mandated since the 60s. But, so far, this first phase advertising, pre-pre-preleasing introduction to awareness raising efforts has not indicated how the 8 million sq ft of office space will interface with public transportation and trails.

The Rail Station under the convention center really needs to be moved to the "backside," remaking the entire service entry into a mixed use concentration of specialness.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby vman » 24 Oct 2017 06:11

cowboyeagle05 wrote: BofA has one and so does Renaissance Tower and those work because they such a large captive audience who just wants a cheap sub sandwich.

I went walking through the tunnels a few weeks ago and the Renaissance Tower food court is still thriving. I still eat there sometimes. I had not been to the BOA food court in years, but walked over there and it's really sad. It's dark and depressing. The "Starbucks" has been replaced with some knockoff that sells starbucks coffee. And most of the places I remember are gone and at lunchtime, it really wasn't very busy. Renaissance Tower has kept it's food court, bright and clean. BOA, not so much. The entire lobby and lower level of BOA is in need of a major redo and the food court needs to shuttered. It's a very easy walk over to Renaissance Tower from there.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Jay9398 » 24 Oct 2017 08:56

vman wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote: BofA has one and so does Renaissance Tower and those work because they such a large captive audience who just wants a cheap sub sandwich.

I went walking through the tunnels a few weeks ago and the Renaissance Tower food court is still thriving. I still eat there sometimes. I had not been to the BOA food court in years, but walked over there and it's really sad. It's dark and depressing. The "Starbucks" has been replaced with some knockoff that sells starbucks coffee. And most of the places I remember are gone and at lunchtime, it really wasn't very busy. Renaissance Tower has kept it's food court, bright and clean. BOA, not so much. The entire lobby and lower level of BOA is in need of a major redo and the food court needs to shuttered. It's a very easy walk over to Renaissance Tower from there.


I'm with you on everything but the Starbucks "knockoff." That place has better service, shorter lines, and better food than Starbucks. I work in Renaissance Tower and I will walk to BofA just to go to that place.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Dallas12 » 24 Oct 2017 09:11

tamtagon wrote:
I could even see Exxon moving from Irving to Dallas one day....

Based on what Exxon built in the Woodlands and XTO exiting downtown Fort Worth to that campus, I would think it’s only a matter of time before Exxon’s corporate brass relocates to the Woodlands.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Cord1936 » 03 Nov 2017 10:09

This was published yesterday but is a locked article ... does anyone subscribe who can summarize what it says? Anything new being added that we don't already know?

Behind Dallas entrepreneur Mike Hoque's vision for a smarter Dallas
Dallas Business Journal, Candace Carlisle, Nov. 2, 2017

Dallas entrepreneur Mike Hoque plans to spend about 70 percent of his time focused on building a gateway to southern Dallas near city hall. Hoque chats about the project, how it came to be and what he's trying to create in the city center.

Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2017/11/02/behind-dallas-entrepreneur-mike-hoques-vision-for.html

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 03 Nov 2017 12:12

tamtagon wrote:The Rail Station under the convention center really needs to be moved to the "backside," remaking the entire service entry into a mixed use concentration of specialness.


convention center south side.jpg
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dallaz
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby dallaz » 03 Nov 2017 21:22

Dallas Smart District Project Plans Massive Development Downtown

http://dallas.towers.net/2017/11/03/dal ... -downtown/


Hoque claimed there would be an announcement soon regarding a “first of its kind” major brand coming to the district


I wonder what that could be...

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Jasimm » 16 Jan 2018 13:58

"Besides the pipeline of projects, several proposed developments in DFW sit in limbo, searching for funding, anchor tenants, or absorption in similar product types. Most notably, Ross Perot Jr.’s Hillwood partnered with famed architect Sir Norman Foster to propose a 70-story skyscraper on the other side of Woodall Rodgers from the Perot Museum. Hillwood would need an anchor tenant to get the development off paper and in the ground. Hoque Global and KDC have proposed a 78-story tower. Hoque and KDC said they’d begin building a 20-acre mixed-use campus downtown, dubbed the Dallas Smart District, by the end of 2018."

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/ ... e-in-2018/

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 16 Jan 2018 15:44

The fact that KDC is involved gives me hope that this will actually come to fruition.

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dukemeredith
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby dukemeredith » 08 Mar 2018 22:35

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/ ... -concepts/

Interesting bits of information in this article — some of which conflict.

On one hand, the article states that there’s an undisclosed 500,000 square foot tenant and phase 1 will break ground later this year.

On the other hand, the article states that the Smart District is in a holding pattern until Amazon selects a location.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Mar 2018 09:03

You have to pay attention to the specific language used "The Smart District is in something of a partial holding pattern until Amazon decides where to locate its HQ2. "

A "partial holding pattern" meaning we have plans to build without Amazon but if they say our name we will come running. That's, of course, is if he telling the truth about having the financing in place for this first phase. Not that I am calling him a liar but many developers have produced renderings over the years. Let's hope this one is the one that actually turns dirt.

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cyklopz
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby cyklopz » 17 Oct 2018 18:42

It's been about a year since this was announced...someone give Hoque a call and find out what's going on.

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DFW
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby DFW » 17 Oct 2018 23:58

Yeah, I was thinking the same when I drove down Canton St. last week. Still no sign of activity, in fact it looked like the parking lots are still operating. I don’t think they have even drilled for soil samples. The first phase is supposed to start this fall. Just doesn’t look like it. We just have to wait and see about Amazon.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Mgreen15 » 18 Oct 2018 08:50

Remember last year when Hoque said an announcement would be coming soon regarding a “first of its kind major brand” moving to the district... By soon did he mean a few years?

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 18 Oct 2018 09:09

Yeah, he also said he wasn't dependent on Amazon to move this project forward. This is a massive project for Hoque and he signed up with KDC to get it built if all the pieces fell into place.

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whi5125
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby whi5125 » 18 Oct 2018 10:22

Well hopefully this is not yet another Spire situation and nothing but smoke and mirror bull crap that Dallas attracts.

But I do see the reasoning for waiting for Amazon to decide, the Smart District IMO is probably the leading Dallas site for Amazon should they choose Dallas even over the Victory Park location.

The good news is that if Amazon either doesnt choose Dallas or decide to split HQ2 into two parts as rumored as a possibility, this is at least close to the High speed rail station that once that gets built will bring the area's value and development opportunities through the roof.

I also wonder if that is another reason for waiting along with Amazon.

And last but not least City Hall has been mulling putting a deck part over 30 near there, so should that happen something will go in here. The location and possibilities will probably help keep this thing from becoming another Spire fiasco.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 18 Oct 2018 10:43

I know for Dallas and Atlanta, the HQ2 process has at least put the spotlight on near-ready downtown masterplans to land a one of the big corporate relocations or consolidations scouting around the country. The promise in Dallas is substantial with so much passenger rail expansion, D2 & HSR. The next decade on the southern rim of downtown should see massive development one way or another.

Adding renewed promise to the southern rim is the Trinity River Park. With the push for a highway finally fading away, the reality of what is actually sustainable and usable is rooting in the minds of decision makers on all sides of the conundrum. The benefit of a huge nature park is making sense more and more regardless of what eventually happens.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 18 Oct 2018 11:38

UnderWater park is more likely based on this rain.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby mcrdal15 » 18 Oct 2018 11:50

tamtagon wrote:Adding renewed promise to the southern rim is the Trinity River Park. With the push for a highway finally fading away, the reality of what is actually sustainable and usable is rooting in the minds of decision makers on all sides of the conundrum. The benefit of a huge nature park is making sense more and more regardless of what eventually happens.


The tragedy of the Trinity River Park is that 20 years have been wasted fighting over a highway plan that is about as backwards and archaic as it gets. I can't think of any other American city in that time frame debating whether or not to build a highway through their prime spots of nature! It would be like Pittsburgh wasting 20 years deciding on whether or not to bring back steel mills across the river from Downtown. I'm glad that the zombie tollway is finally dead, but there's still this tendency to base "quality of life" improvements solely around real estate and economic development potential. Economic development is a nice bonus, but why is it always the primary? So investments in greenspace are held up hostage until there's a proven economic benefit? Same thing is true for sidewalk improvements. It took AT&T's threats to leave Downtown for the city to finally do something.

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Tnexster » 19 Oct 2018 14:44

If they would have used that bond election 20 years ago to do nothing but create wet lands, curve the river if so desired, build some bike paths and set the entire thing with native grasses and wildflowers it would have been done 15 years ago and would be a well established natural attraction that by itself would attract a ton of visitors by now. Instead we have what we have which is an unending mess. Oh, and it also would have been much less expensive.

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jetnd87
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby jetnd87 » 04 Feb 2019 17:49

Interview with Mike Hoque. Around the 12 minute mark the interviewer asks him about a timetable, and he says they're talking with a specific tenant and once they make a decision they'll break ground. So, nothing too new, but he's definitely committed.

https://video.kera.org/video/mike-hoque ... al-1jvfc8/

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Matt777
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Matt777 » 05 Feb 2019 10:55

If not Amazon, who are the big fish that could be considering a corporate relocation right now, and would need a lot of consolidated office space for corporate staff? Maybe General Electric, FedEx, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan Chase, or a healthcare company? IBM tends to build large satellite campuses too.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 05 Feb 2019 11:20

Exxon does a periodic real estate review, like every four or five years I think, something like that, and with train to Houston looking more and more likely, we might see Exxon-Mobile move into the Smart District. Sure would make some sense. Whatever....

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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Matt777 » 05 Feb 2019 11:54

tamtagon wrote:Exxon does a periodic real estate review, like every four or five years I think, something like that, and with train to Houston looking more and more likely, we might see Exxon-Mobile move into the Smart District. Sure would make some sense. Whatever....


Exxon just built a massive worker bee complex in suburban Houston. Only the big wigs are based out of Irving. They could be a part of Smart District, but Hoque keeps referring to one specific client to anchor it. Could be Hot Air Inc., but maybe we'll be surprised.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 05 Feb 2019 13:26

Hot Air inc. sounds about right. Recall, that they said they would break ground by year end (2018) ..Amazon or not.

Well it's 2019 and there's no Amazon. Also no details moving.

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DFW
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby DFW » 16 Feb 2019 17:10


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Mgreen15
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Mgreen15 » 16 Feb 2019 22:07



Dang! That tower completely dwarfs BOA and possibly anything on this side of the Mississippi.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby joshua.dodd » 16 Feb 2019 23:11




Jesus Freaking Christ.

That thing is HUGE!

That looks like it could be 2000 feet tall!

itsjrd1964
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby itsjrd1964 » 17 Feb 2019 07:02

Image
Image

So, how many stories is the biggie? IINM, I counted 90 stories, just from first glance.

Wow, this complex is going to need serious *serious* leasing and corporate relocations. *If* it isn't just a drawing of wishful thinking.

I45Tex
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby I45Tex » 17 Feb 2019 08:15

Didn't even bother rendering its relationship to anything south of it. Dallas Mentality Monument we'll call it.

itsjrd1964
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby itsjrd1964 » 17 Feb 2019 08:26

Current stats for tallest existing US buildings:

in feet/height: One World Trade Center, New York City (104 floors, 1776 feet)
in floor count: Willis Tower, Chicago (110 floors, 1451 feet)
residential: 432 Park Avenue, NYC (85 floors, 1396 feet)
hotel/residential: Trump Intl. Hotel and Tower, Chicago (98 floors, 1389 feet)
hotel: Detroit Marriott-Renaissance Center (73 floors, 727 feet)
outside a downtown/CBD: Williams Tower, Houston (64 floors, 901 feet)

in Los Angeles: Wilshire Grand Center (73 floors, 1099 feet)
in Chicago: Willis Tower, Chicago (110 floors, 1451 feet)
in Philadelphia: Comcast Technology Center (60 floors, 1121 feet)
in San Francisco: Salesforce Tower (60 floors, 1070 feet)
in Atlanta: Bank of America Plaza (55 floors, 1023 feet)
in Miami: Panorama Tower (82 floors, 868 feet)
in Charlotte: Bank of America Corporate Center (60 floors, 871 feet)
in Oklahoma City: Devon Energy Tower (52 floors, 852 feet)
in Denver: Republic Plaza (56 floors, 714 feet)

in Houston: JP Morgan Chase Tower (75 floors, 1002 feet)
in Austin: The Austonian (56 floors, 683 feet)
in San Antonio: Marriott Rivercenter (38 floors, 546 feet) (Tower of the Americas (750 feet) is taller, but is not considered a building)
in Fort Worth: Burnett Plaza (40 floors, 567 feet)


If the tall-boy in the "smart district" development is going to be taller than downtown's BoA, it would have to surpass 921 feet.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 17 Feb 2019 09:51

Well, if it's gotta be, then I set the minimum tallest in Dallas at 1,200.

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dallaz
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby dallaz » 17 Feb 2019 10:31

I found an online pamphlet about Hoque Global’s planned developments. I’ve never heard of Farmers Market Tower before. Was this mentioned previously?


Go to page 5

http://online.anyflip.com/kovq/cqft/mobile/index.html

Tnexster
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Tnexster » 17 Feb 2019 11:00

Very interesting....yet again...but will believe it when the cranes go up.

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clcrash19
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby clcrash19 » 17 Feb 2019 13:29

Never gonna happen unfortunately

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby joshua.dodd » 18 Feb 2019 07:24

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the lack of enthusiasm. With the current downtrend in the real estate market, I'm going to remain diligently dubious. My fingers are crossed. But I'm not holding my breath.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 18 Feb 2019 07:38

A downtrend from smoking hot to glowing red is still a market full of enthusiasm.... Uptown is among the most expensive in South Central US, but compared to similar submarkets of pier cities across the country, Uptown is a bargain. At some point, the location will have to be accepted as one that commands a higher price because it's so nice.

Cheaply built, I'm sure some is, even suspect some was built with the intention of lasting 20 years!

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Dallas12
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Dallas12 » 18 Feb 2019 11:16

I’m curious if Hoque is partnered with KDC going forward with these properties or if that was strictly for the Amazon HQ2 proposal. This thing is certainly a pipe dream as a spec project, but KDC has been involved in the majority of DFW’s large-scale developments over the past 5-10 years. If there is a developer that is capable of pulling off one big or several sizable relocations to make this a reality, there is probably no development company better, more capable than KDC.


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