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Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 18 Jan 2018 16:49

Yes and no. Depending on who you talk to Austin has a better run bus system while lacking a great train system. The problem is many transportation engineers disagree on what systems are the better. We have argued it back and forth on here. A much better bus system can in many ways beat the advantages of a train/track based transportation. The problem with that is bus lines can be easily moved and economic development likes knowing where the transportation line is going to be so they can depend on its value to their property. If you could move HWY 75 like a bus line can be moved wouldn't you as a developer be upset that all that foot traffic is here one day and gone the next because the transit agency decides that two blocks over is better. I am all for better transit but I still believe trains are a valuable part of the whole picture with a majority of transit coming from the bus. That's what in some peoples mind DART already has the resources for. Trains that bring the suburbs into the city for long distance travel and all DART needs to do is make its bus system better. Austin may appear lackluster in transit but they may be doing better than they appear.

On a personal note my parents will ride the DART train but will not get on a bus. While they aren't exactly the target market I have seen people in even the millennial generation have the same thoughts on transit. Signs promoting the idea that you don't have to buy gas to ride DART will do nothing to convince these people to ride transit.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 Jan 2018 16:54

Here's a fun article that ranks the city's based on defined criteria.

Both Austin and Dalla get a B-.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/01/18/how ... rters.html

Although, for location NYC got an F so I wouldn't put much stock into this ranking lol

DPatel304
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 18 Jan 2018 19:00

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yes and no. Depending on who you talk to Austin has a better run bus system while lacking a great train system. The problem is many transportation engineers disagree on what systems are the better. We have argued it back and forth on here. A much better bus system can in many ways beat the advantages of a train/track based transportation. The problem with that is bus lines can be easily moved and economic development likes knowing where the transportation line is going to be so they can depend on its value to their property. If you could move HWY 75 like a bus line can be moved wouldn't you as a developer be upset that all that foot traffic is here one day and gone the next because the transit agency decides that two blocks over is better. I am all for better transit but I still believe trains are a valuable part of the whole picture with a majority of transit coming from the bus. That's what in some peoples mind DART already has the resources for. Trains that bring the suburbs into the city for long distance travel and all DART needs to do is make its bus system better. Austin may appear lackluster in transit but they may be doing better than they appear.

On a personal note my parents will ride the DART train but will not get on a bus. While they aren't exactly the target market I have seen people in even the millennial generation have the same thoughts on transit. Signs promoting the idea that you don't have to buy gas to ride DART will do nothing to convince these people to ride transit.


I could see people arguing both sides. As a regional public transportation, DART wins hands down, but that's not saying a whole lot. If you're only talking about intra-city travel, then I can't really say for sure. Buses do make a lot of economic sense, but, in addition to the disadvantages you listed, you also have to keep in mind that a lot of times they have to share the road with cars too. I know they do have bus only lanes, but that's not for all buses, and their traffic problems are only going to get worse and worse as time goes on, which could have an impact on buses.

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jecha
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby jecha » 18 Jan 2018 19:05

This is an interesting article from Detroit News that points out Amazon's transportation desires and more detail of what they are looking for.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l ... 043515001/

Rahal then shared reasons Detroit wasn’t the best candidate for Amazon’s second headquarters.

“One thing they are looking for is what places are likely to attract talent,” he said. “What are some of the factors that exist to attract talent from 25- to 30-year-olds.”

They also, he said, had a specific conversation about mass transit.

“Some on the list either have a robust transit system or, if they don’t, have plans for some,” he said. “That was not the only factor, by any means, but it was a factor.”

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 18 Jan 2018 19:22

People won't ride the bus when the bus is an inferior option. I've never ridden a bus in Dallas, because why would I? There's little traffic, ample parking, and destinations are spread out. That means cars are the best option, except for some long-distance trips to a central location during high-traffic times (aka the commute), where the train becomes competitive.

There's not some unique bus culture in San Francisco, it's just that the combination of density, limited parking, and the lack of a real subway system happens to make bus travel a competitive option. And so lo and behold, people get over the bus aversion.

The best thing advocates for transit in Dallas could push for is an elimination (or at least reduction) of parking requirements. Without the increased density and increased cost of parking that that causes, there's no reason why anyone with a choice would ride the bus in Dallas.

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mdg109
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby mdg109 » 18 Jan 2018 20:16

I work in Frisco, and I too was surprised when I heard people here say Frisco was a strong contender. Their strongest point was all the land they had to offer, followed by incentives, and strong school system.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 18 Jan 2018 21:19

For at least 30 years (about as long as I've paid attention to it....), from the outside: Austin has been considered the cool town, totally way more cool than Dallas, which has been considered a generic corporate town and cookie-cutter and little beyond the flashy skyline.... from the state: Austin is way cool, totally fun and a cultural oasis in the Bible Belt, Dallas is way pretentious, the shining belt buckle on the bible belt and just plain boring.

But really among those who've been around a bit, it's just not accurate. Austin can be a totally fun cultural oasis, but it's every bit as pretentious and it's a small town (ask anyone from San Antonio). There's far more going on in Dallas -- the cultural oasis can be more difficult to find in Dallas, but it's stronger. Anyway...

Amazon, still opening up in Dallas.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby lakewoodhobo » 19 Jan 2018 10:15

Dallas could never compete with the coolness factor of Austin, or its prettier geography, or the exciting clusterf@ck cycle of legislative sessions, college semesters and music festivals. However, when I lived there from 2004-2006 I found the mundane part of Austin (when nothing was really going on and locals lived their day-to-day lives) to be just as boring as any other city.

Of course, I was also dirt poor and a little bitter.

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Matt777
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 19 Jan 2018 11:58

I'm an educated 20 something professional and I don't get the hype over Austin. It's not a bad place, but it doesn't feel authentic to me, not like it was when I was in high school. Most things are new. If you want good Asian food, chances are the restaurant will not be owned by Asians, for example. Everything seems to manufactured to be "cool." Most people there are not from Texas and have just relocated there in the past couple years. Original residents have been pushed out by the thousands, especially in minority communities. It just feels so fad of the day to me.... most people will disagree with me but different strokes different folks. I think the fad will pass. Seems to do so every few years with these smaller cities, like how it was Portland then Austin, and now it seems to be moving to places like Nashville and Colombus, OH.

Dallas may be more gritty in certain areas and have more urban issues to tackle but it at least feels real to me. I also prefer the more diverse housing stock in Dallas. In Austin it seems like most housing is either brand new modern style, or 70s/80s housing stock. I see little of the kind of vintage properties you'd see in the M Streets, Oak Cliff/Winnetka, or some of the urban modern stuff built in the 60s-90s in Oak Lawn and Knox Park. And don't get me started on the lack of urban infrastructure and transit there. I laugh whenever my Austin friends say it's completely walkable and then get in their SUVs literally whenever they leave their apartment doors.

Also, all the people I know in Austin think Dallas is pretentious yet they tend to be ultra pretentious themselves. In a different way, but pretentious nonetheless.

Topography wise, it's nice for Texas but I wouldn't call it beautiful. Maybe that's because I've traveled all around the world and seen actual natural beauty. I don't think anyone comes to Texas for the scenic topography but again, different strokes different folks.

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Waldozer
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Waldozer » 19 Jan 2018 12:06

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ain’t it now? How’s that Willie Nelson song go? “We have all read the beautiful stories of the countries far over the sea, from whence came our ancestors to establish this land of the free. There are some folks who still like to travel to see what they have over there. But when they go look it’s not like the book, and they find there is none to compare to beautiful, beautiful Texas - the most beautiful place that I know.”

DPatel304
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 19 Jan 2018 12:17

I lived in Austin for a little over a year, and I've been saying all of these things for a while. Based on my experience there, it seems the hype comes from the following people:
1) College students who have not ventured out too much yet at this stage in their life. Most of their life was spent living in the suburbs with their parents doing suburban things, so obviously Austin would feel like heaven on earth for someone like this.
2) Transplants from other states that believe the negative stereotypes associated with Texas. They visit Austin and realize it's not full of bigots and religious zealots, but they believe this is the only place in Texas like this and don't really bother to venture out to Dallas or Houston.
3) Sheep. People who don't form opinions of their own. If the entire city of Austin is constantly cheer-leading their own city and saying "Dallas sucks", then they will just accept it as truth.

Austin is a decent city, as is Dallas. I have a preference for Dallas, but, honestly, my day to day life was about the same living in both cities. I found the people to be a bit insufferable after a while in Austin. I know city preference is all subjective, so maybe I'm just simply biased towards Dallas, but, while I was there, I really tried to understand what the big deal was. Most people I talked to about it couldn't really give me much of an answer. A lot of my friends there grew up in DFW, and I see how differently they act in Austin versus DFW. Basically they are boring in DFW, but they've convinced themselves it's the city that is boring and not them.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 19 Jan 2018 12:41

DPatel304 wrote:I lived in Austin for a little over a year, and I've been saying all of these things for a while. Based on my experience there, it seems the hype comes from the following people:
1) College students who have not ventured out too much yet at this stage in their life. Most of their life was spent living in the suburbs with their parents doing suburban things, so obviously Austin would feel like heaven on earth for someone like this.
2) Transplants from other states that believe the negative stereotypes associated with Texas. They visit Austin and realize it's not full of bigots and religious zealots, but they believe this is the only place in Texas like this and don't really bother to venture out to Dallas or Houston.
3) Sheep. People who don't form opinions of their own. If the entire city of Austin is constantly cheer-leading their own city and saying "Dallas sucks", then they will just accept it as truth.

Austin is a decent city, as is Dallas. I have a preference for Dallas, but, honestly, my day to day life was about the same living in both cities. I found the people to be a bit insufferable after a while in Austin. I know city preference is all subjective, so maybe I'm just simply biased towards Dallas, but, while I was there, I really tried to understand what the big deal was. Most people I talked to about it couldn't really give me much of an answer. A lot of my friends there grew up in DFW, and I see how differently they act in Austin versus DFW. Basically they are boring in DFW, but they've convinced themselves it's the city that is boring and not them.

^^^^
Well said...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 19 Jan 2018 13:46

Exactly what I have experienced about the Austin magic. It's nice to visit but from what I have seen there is nothing there that I can not get here in Dallas.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cbdallas » 19 Jan 2018 14:16

Portland has a metro population of 2,424,955
Austin has a metro population of 2,056,405
Portland has a great city center and metro transit system combined of streetcars and light rail that connects to thier airport. You truly can live in the urban center without a car.
Austin has one commuter rail line with 9 stops.

If Austin is so cool and great why no real rail or streetcar system and why would Amazon want to go where one does not exist and the city still has not put forth a real plan to do so in the future.

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dallasbeatsaustin
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallasbeatsaustin » 19 Jan 2018 14:26

Our family lives near UT. My wife works at a decent-sized tech company near Zilker Park and she is the only person who takes the bus out of around 300 employees at the office (this is because she does not drive). In general, unless you are going to UT campus or on an express bus, the bus service is laughable. Many of her colleagues are from other states and love Austin, but always hate on the transportation situation.

We also live next to the train (it's literally in the back yard) and we don't use it because the nearest stop is 2 miles away.

What we love about Austin is that it is small relative to other cities we have lived in, but those short trips almost always entail driving if the destination is not walking distance or on a decent street for bikes.

Both cities are poor at going across town. When my brother told me how long DART takes from Downtown Carrollton to work in Las Colinas I understood why he still drove.

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I45Tex
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 19 Jan 2018 15:37

tamtagon said we in DFW have all the same creativity, it’s just not as obvious/concentrated

Matt said Austinites are pretentious in a different way than Dallasites, but pretentious nonetheless.

DPatel said, “A lot of my friends there grew up in DFW, and I see how differently they act in Austin versus DFW. Basically they are boring in DFW, but they've convinced themselves it's the city that is…”

So is there a big deal? I think there actually is, it’s just a boring one.

...take 2 firms that have all the same resources in their booming market segment, and all the same talents in their loyal workforce. If the management of one company has frameworked the norms to nurture long-term projects, and the default managerial practice of the other one creates a short-term focus, then — — — the kinds of experimentation you feel like you have to ask permission for will differ despite nearly identical micro and macro conditions.

Dallas, sure, you can do the same cool things as Austin, and Austin you can do the same “real” things as Dallas, but fewer people will do them, simply because institutions matter. It requires more effort on your part not to go with the flow. That is a blessing but also a curse.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 19 Jan 2018 16:19

I45Tex wrote:...take 2 firms that have all the same resources in their booming market segment, and all the same talents in their loyal workforce. If the management of one company has frameworked the norms to nurture long-term projects, and the default managerial practice of the other one creates a short-term focus, then — — — the kinds of experimentation you feel like you have to ask permission for will differ despite nearly identical micro and macro conditions.

I'm not sure what that last part means.

The difference between the two is Austin has a different culture. The city has branded its self around music and guys with tight pants and facial hair styles from 1893.

Dallas is built like most other cities were you have enclaves.So the culture of the city is more about whatever you make it to be. Whatever you're into you can find. With that said, Dallas is overall more Urban.

I akin the Dallas/Austin comparison to Seattle/Portland.


If Amazon's decision is based on perceived "coolness" than they'll have to live with the fact that Austin has a lesser talent pool than alot of the bigger cities on the shortlist.

The airport thing is another mark against Austin.

Lastly,public transportation is ..well Texan.

Something that isn't being talked about is the incentives. I have a hard time believing that the Dallas boosters will be out "boosted" by Austin. So I'm assuming Dallas will probably have a more lucrative deal for Amazon.

Ultimately, I don't think neither city will prevail..

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I45Tex
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 19 Jan 2018 17:22

One person on the Houston forum said today, “Amazon knows that by including Indy and Columbus, Indiana and Ohio will go all-out on incentives, which they can then leverage over more desirable locations that aren't as likely to play the incentive game (NYC, DC, Boston, LA, Denver, etc.).”

DPatel304
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 19 Jan 2018 17:55

I45Tex wrote:One person on the Houston forum said today, “Amazon knows that by including Indy and Columbus, Indiana and Ohio will go all-out on incentives, which they can then leverage over more desirable locations that aren't as likely to play the incentive game (NYC, DC, Boston, LA, Denver, etc.).”


Definitely. There is no way they have narrowed it down to 'only' twenty cities. A second headquarters takes tons of planning and research so, either they have already selected their winner, or they have narrowed it down to 2-3 cities at most.

I'm pretty sure they said they will announce the 'winner' sometime in 2018, so there is no way they are sitting there with a list of twenty cities trying to scramble and figure out which is their best fit.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 19 Jan 2018 18:22

^ive been saying that for the longest! Indianapolis.. c'mon lol

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 25 Jan 2018 07:59

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... management

UNT expands its retailing degrees with a major in consumer experience management

Maria Halkias

...Managing the consumer experience in retail is complicated enough these days that there's now a college degree for that.

The Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board has approved a bachelor of science degree with a major in "Consumer Experience Management" at the University of North Texas in Denton....


During this competition, so much HQ2 focus has been on availability, training and ease of recruiting tech workers to the new office location, but perhaps understanding the evolution of retail basics is a more desirable degree plan.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 25 Jan 2018 09:15

tamtagon wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/retail/2018/01/24/unt-expands-retailing-degrees-major-consumer-experience-management

UNT expands its retailing degrees with a major in consumer experience management

Maria Halkias

...Managing the consumer experience in retail is complicated enough these days that there's now a college degree for that.

The Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board has approved a bachelor of science degree with a major in "Consumer Experience Management" at the University of North Texas in Denton....


During this competition, so much HQ2 focus has been on availability, training and ease of recruiting tech workers to the new office location, but perhaps understanding the evolution of retail basics is a more desirable degree plan.


The presence of a “Consumer Experience Management” bachelors degree option at UNT-Denton will have exactly zero impct on the decision of headquarters location of one of the largest and most innovative companies in the world.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 25 Jan 2018 10:28

Innovation is the key word here.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 25 Jan 2018 18:20

Amazon insists on a new factor for cities still in HQ2 headquarters race: Secrecy


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/25/amazon- ... crecy.html

"Dallas Mayor Rawlings was one. Among his points:

Dallas has been growing faster than any city in the country and fast growth is a factor that both it and Amazon share. "Nobody has grown faster or created more jobs than us," he said.

Rawlings also attempted to dispel a few myths. While Austin gets all the tech credit, Dallas has more tech employees — almost as many as in Seattle. And while Rawlings acknowledged the broader Texas "red state" reputation is an issue, especially given the tech industry's focus on social tolerance, he stressed that Dallas is "a blue city in a red state," which has scored 100 on the LGBT Index for the past three years. "There are concerns at the state level, but we are working through that," he said."

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 26 Jan 2018 14:13

Only the top five "big boys" - Dallas, NYC, Chicago, Boston, and Washington DC - plus one wildcard city - Toronto - have a realistic chance of hosting Amazon's new headquarters just given the unprecedented tech hiring requirements for HQ2.

Even with tech hiring phased in over several years the numbers are still being described as "unprecedented".

Quote: "Talent is going to drive this."

‘Unprecedented’ Hiring Could Make The Amazon HQ2 Shortlist Much Shorter
January 24, 2018, by Cameron Sperance, Bisnow Boston

Article: https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/other/unprecedented-hiring-could-make-the-amazon-hq2-shortlist-much-shorter-84115

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 26 Jan 2018 14:43

Cord1936 wrote:Only the top five "big boys" - Dallas, NYC, Chicago, Boston, and Washington DC - plus one wildcard city - Toronto - have a realistic chance of hosting Amazon's new headquarters just given the unprecedented tech hiring requirements for HQ2.

Even with tech hiring phased in over several years the numbers are still being described as "unprecedented".

Quote: "Talent is going to drive this."

‘Unprecedented’ Hiring Could Make The Amazon HQ2 Shortlist Much Shorter
January 24, 2018, by Cameron Sperance, Bisnow Boston

Article: https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/other/unprecedented-hiring-could-make-the-amazon-hq2-shortlist-much-shorter-84115


Interesting... And only one of those can be called 'affordable'. Wasn't that one of the main reasons for finding an HQ2? Cost of living for workforce?
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 26 Jan 2018 14:55

From ATL Business Journal
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Screenshot_20180126-101623.png
Screenshot_20180126-101636.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 27 Jan 2018 11:32

muncien wrote:
Cord1936 wrote:Only the top five "big boys" - Dallas, NYC, Chicago, Boston, and Washington DC - plus one wildcard city - Toronto - have a realistic chance of hosting Amazon's new headquarters just given the unprecedented tech hiring requirements for HQ2.

Even with tech hiring phased in over several years the numbers are still being described as "unprecedented".


Interesting... And only one of those can be called 'affordable'. Wasn't that one of the main reasons for finding an HQ2? Cost of living for workforce?


Chicago is plenty affordable. Though it's not going to get HQ2 because of its/the state's fiscal situation.

Toronto will be affordable after the massive Canadian housing bubble bursts lol

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby f4shionablecha0s » 27 Jan 2018 11:52

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:"Dallas Mayor Rawlings was one. Among his points:

Dallas has been growing faster than any city in the country and fast growth is a factor that both it and Amazon share. "Nobody has grown faster or created more jobs than us," he said.

Does Rawlings intentionally obfuscate Dallas and DFW or is he completely unaware of the fact that he represents DALLAS and not "the region"?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Jan 2018 11:56

f4shionablecha0s wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:"Dallas Mayor Rawlings was one. Among his points:

Dallas has been growing faster than any city in the country and fast growth is a factor that both it and Amazon share. "Nobody has grown faster or created more jobs than us," he said.

Does Rawlings intentionally obfuscate Dallas and DFW or is he completely unaware of the fact that he represents DALLAS and not "the region"?

He has said before he considers himself as the regions mayor. Regionalism is why Dallas suffers.

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dallaz
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallaz » 27 Jan 2018 12:03

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
f4shionablecha0s wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:"Dallas Mayor Rawlings was one. Among his points:

Dallas has been growing faster than any city in the country and fast growth is a factor that both it and Amazon share. "Nobody has grown faster or created more jobs than us," he said.

Does Rawlings intentionally obfuscate Dallas and DFW or is he completely unaware of the fact that he represents DALLAS and not "the region"?

He has said before he considers himself as the regions mayor. Regionalism is why Dallas suffers.
I couldn’t agree more. They need to stop caring about “the region” and start worrying about what’s in the best interest of the City of Dallas. The suburbs have leached off of Dallas for way too long and our elected officials have let it happen.

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eburress
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 27 Jan 2018 13:16

f4shionablecha0s wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:"Dallas Mayor Rawlings was one. Among his points:

Dallas has been growing faster than any city in the country and fast growth is a factor that both it and Amazon share. "Nobody has grown faster or created more jobs than us," he said.

Does Rawlings intentionally obfuscate Dallas and DFW or is he completely unaware of the fact that he represents DALLAS and not "the region"?


The city of Dallas (and its mayor) is the head/face of the region.

I agree that Dallas needs to be more assertive. It provides services and opportunities to the entire region and without Dallas, none of the Planos, Friscos, Addisons, etc would even exist. Just like the DART member cities pay for the services DART provides, the cities in the region should be similarly paying into Dallas for the opportunities and services it provides.

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 27 Jan 2018 19:06

muncien wrote:
Cord1936 wrote:Only the top five "big boys" - Dallas, NYC, Chicago, Boston, and Washington DC - plus one wildcard city - Toronto - have a realistic chance of hosting Amazon's new headquarters just given the unprecedented tech hiring requirements for HQ2.

Even with tech hiring phased in over several years the numbers are still being described as "unprecedented".

Quote: "Talent is going to drive this."

‘Unprecedented’ Hiring Could Make The Amazon HQ2 Shortlist Much Shorter
January 24, 2018, by Cameron Sperance, Bisnow Boston

Article: https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/other/unprecedented-hiring-could-make-the-amazon-hq2-shortlist-much-shorter-84115


Interesting... And only one of those can be called 'affordable'. Wasn't that one of the main reasons for finding an HQ2? Cost of living for workforce?

^^^^^^^
Dallas can attract the top tech talent needed for Amazon's hiring needs ...we already boast the 5th largest concentration of existing tech workers in the nation (larger than vaunted Austin and expanding rapidly!).

If viewing HQ2 through the "rubber meets the road" optics of tech hiring being a top key decision driver, AND coupled with the much greater cost savings achievable in Dallas (versus the other top cities listed) the decision seems to point even more so at Dallas clearly being the logical location (and putting aside my own prejudice for Dallas based on purely boosterism reasons).

And we have this from yesterday:

Dallas/DFW Can House Amazon's Thousands of HQ2 Workers Without Stressing the Market
By Steve Brown, Dallas Morning News, 01-26-18
...
For Dallas-Fort Worth, the Amazon move would barely register on [the] housing radar. We build more homes in North Texas and sell more houses than anywhere in the country. Coming up with new digs for, say, 5,000 more people a year over a decade wouldn't crimp the local home market.

And D-FW has an edge when it comes to housing affordability compared with other cities vying for the Amazon prize.
...
"We can produce the housing."

Last year D-FW builders constructed more than 30,000 single-family homes. And developers completed about 35,000 apartments in North Texas.

More new housing was built in the area in 2017 than any other U.S. metro area.
...
"D-FW compared to markets on the east and west coast is still very affordable," Wilson said.
...
Article: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2018/01/26/d-fw-can-house-amazons-thousands-hq2-workers-without-stressing-market

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 28 Jan 2018 22:49

I'm afraid it's going to East Coast city. Jeff Bezos lives in DC. 3 DC metro areas on the shortlist. That's the preferred landing spot now IMO.

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eburress
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 29 Jan 2018 08:12

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I'm afraid it's going to East Coast city. Jeff Bezos lives in DC. 3 DC metro areas on the shortlist. That's the preferred landing spot now IMO.

I don't know how well the DC area meets their search criteria, and hopefully the State steps up and offers Amazon a deal it can't refuse to set up shop in Dallas, but yeah, it sure seems like they're leaning towards DC.

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whi5125
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby whi5125 » 29 Jan 2018 13:27

If they Choose D.C. I really wouldnt be upset because it just means that this whole thing was a farce anyway and it was only to try and pull more deals for the DC metro location. I mean simply choosing the location because you live in the area means that no one ever had a chance.

Yeah it would suck but I would almost rather that happen than loose to the likes of Philly or Atlanta.

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 29 Jan 2018 16:45

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I'm afraid it's going to East Coast city. Jeff Bezos lives in DC. 3 DC metro areas on the shortlist. That's the preferred landing spot now IMO.

^^^^^^^
I read a very recent article by a NYC Bisnow writer claiming that the decision was D.C. all along and the whole exercise was a sham. It may be true, it may not.

There have been similar declarations of Amazon bias towards a particular city that are essentially not any different than this D.C. claim - i.e. the Amazon lobbyist appointed in Georgia (Atlanta is it!) and the recent signing of large scale leases in Boston (Boston is it!).

Both are apparently disconnected from the HQ2 decision and it remains to be seen but I also believe the D.C. residence purchase is similar.

The truth is Jeff Bezos is the 25th largest landowner in the United States, owning five homes and thousands of acres of land.

Yes, he did fairly recently (2016) purchase property in D.C. but he also owns two homes in Los Angeles, one in New York City, one in Medina, Washington and a 30,000 acre ranch in Texas, called "Figure 2" ranch, with a multi-million dollar home and associated buildings.

That same 30,000 acre ranch in Texas is also the base for his private space company called "Blue Origin", where his goal is to become a space tourism company, ferrying passengers up for weightless rides as soon as April 2019.

And of course his other recently acquired venture in Texas is Whole Foods in Austin.

The reality:

An abundance of exceptional reasons exist why HQ2 should/could come to Dallas, and these Texas land holdings and multiple existing Texas business ventures are not the least.

If anything they lend equal, if not greater, credence to the supposition of a selection of Dallas as any of the other data points suggest the possibility of any other city (Atlanta, Boston, DC).

Take a tour of Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos' 5 giant homes and thousands of acres of land across the US
by Caroline Cakebread, Business Insider, Oct. 8, 2017, 8:00 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-owns-five-massive-homes-across-the-united-states-2017-10/#van-horn-texas-5

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Jbarn
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Jbarn » 30 Jan 2018 14:11

Would Amazon really want to risk coming to a place that will probably be passing a bathroom bill in the next legislative session? That would be a huge risk for them.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 30 Jan 2018 14:21

Lord knows last time I checked Donald doesn’t like Bezos and Bezos doesn’t like Donald. One is a successful business man and the other is “controversial” and please people don’t take this too far. Bezos won’t want to make the president look good with bringing good jobs to DC. And you don’t need to have a giant HQ in town to make your way in DC you just pay for the right lobbyists and that’s done better quietly than with some big trophy looking over the capital building.

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 30 Jan 2018 19:43

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Lord knows last time I checked Donald doesn’t like Bezos and Bezos doesn’t like Donald. One is a successful business man and the other is “controversial” and please people don’t take this too far. Bezos won’t want to make the president look good with bringing good jobs to DC. And you don’t need to have a giant HQ in town to make your way in DC you just pay for the right lobbyists and that’s done better quietly than with some big trophy looking over the capital building.

^^^^^^^
Excellent point! Bezos and Trump absolutely hate each other ... why would Bezos want to put a HUGE feather in Trump's cap with such an economic plum falling into DC's lap?

It is easier to say a Dallas selection is just part of the Texas economic miracle occurring, with Dallas leading the nation in job growth, population growth, apartment and housing construction, office construction and net leasing, huge GDP growth (leaping two spots over DC and Houston in the last year), huge tech growth, etc., etc. It doesn't have anything to do with Trump that way.

And there is this from Friday:
"a large tech labor force, and middle-of-the-road ranks for nearly everything else, places Dallas at the top of our ranking"

Dallas is best place for Amazon’s second headquarters, Wall Street Journal says
By Bill Hethcock, Dallas Business Journal, Jan 26, 2018, 8:00pm

Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2018/01/26/dallas-is-best-place-for-amazon-s-second.html

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CTroyMathis
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby CTroyMathis » 30 Jan 2018 20:04

I wonder if any of the news outlets hungry for HQ2 analysis appetizers have noticed that the Dallas submission is a multi-county submission across a wide metropolitan region, yet, only called Dallas. NY/NJ having two, and NOVA/DC/MD having three, are just not consolidated metropolitan submissions (or CSA submissions) largely because of state lines I suppose. The Dallas label is easily three submissions in one. Just food for thought. . .

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 31 Jan 2018 09:40

Guys, Amazon is not going to make a headquarters decision based on how much the CEO likes this particular president, who will only be around for 3 or max 7 more years. Stop wishcasting.

Similarly, Amazon will not pick a location because it will make a Great American Story. It will not pick a location bc Bezos is proud of them putting in light rail. Etc.

This decision will be made on labor force and costs, both broadly defined.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 31 Jan 2018 10:14

^Dallas

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Jan 2018 11:24

Aka not DC^

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 01 Feb 2018 09:36

If Amazon is really serious about this health care initiative, that would actually be a huge point for Dallas, which hosts the HQ of 4 of the 25 largest hospital systems in the country, as well as a regional HQ of the largest.

It also seems to have a very flexible market compared to other places:

http://healthcare.dmagazine.com/2016/06 ... rth-texas/
The report points to Texas’ rapid growth in consolidation as a byproduct of the state’s lack of any sort of Certificate of Need program. Currently, 35 states and Washington, D.C. have some sort of CON system.

Texas has none of that, which means that new hospitals can be built, partnerships can be established, and existing facilities can be bought up without the same amount of oversight as in other states. Mergers do get looked at before they go through, but non-public facilities can close a unit or expand without any sort of public approval. The market is the great definer.


I’ve always kind of wondered “why” about this HQ2 move. Is it really just to provide their HQ workers with a lower cost option? That’s a weird reason for an HQ. Can they really not recruit the best East Coast tech talent to Seattle? Also kind of dubious.

On the other hand, access to that kind of differentiated health care administration labor force and business environment would be a compelling reason to make an HQ2 jump if Amazon Health Marketplace is their next big thing.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby The_Overdog » 01 Feb 2018 13:12

Texas has none of that, which means that new hospitals can be built, partnerships can be established, and existing facilities can be bought up without the same amount of oversight as in other states.


Texas doesn't need a CON program, because Texas (even the nice parts) have lower numbers of doctors per capita than most other places, and way lower than it's economic/education/population peers. In poor areas the numbers are even starker.

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dallaz
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallaz » 04 Feb 2018 20:42

Did anyone see the Amazon super bowl commercial? Right from the beginning it mentioned Austin.

I could be reading too deep into it...

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 04 Feb 2018 20:55

dallaz wrote:Did anyone see the Amazon super bowl commercial? Right from the beginning it mentioned Austin.

I could be reading too deep into it...


I saw that too!

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dallaz
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallaz » 05 Feb 2018 10:32

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
dallaz wrote:Did anyone see the Amazon super bowl commercial? Right from the beginning it mentioned Austin.

I could be reading too deep into it...


I saw that too!

My assumption is that Austin is a very strong contender for HQ2. Out of all the places in the world, Austin is the very first line of the commercial. Again, I could be just over thinking it.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 05 Feb 2018 10:59

HQ2 in Austin would help dramatically increase the viability of I-35 corridor high speed rail, and I'm all for that! A 1.5 hour train ride from Austin to DFW airport, sweet.


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