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Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

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Brettoj
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Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Brettoj » 07 Sep 2017 07:54

What sites do we think would be viable for this kind of development?

http://www.amazon.com/amazonHQ2
Last edited by Brettoj on 07 Sep 2017 08:04, edited 1 time in total.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas odds at landing Amazon HQ '2'

Postby tamtagon » 07 Sep 2017 07:59

Regal Row

DPatel304
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Sep 2017 09:13

Don't they have the most distribution centers in the DFW area? I'm not sure if that affects their decision, but Amazon has been pretty kind to DFW so far, but I won't get my hopes up just yet.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 07 Sep 2017 09:21

Similar to ATT, Amazon has reason to view it's domestic market as North America not just the US. That makes a Dallas location ideal.

For something like this for a brand like Amazon, Dallas/North Texas is probably the odds-on favorite.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 07 Sep 2017 09:21

Spire, Cowboys Stadium, Midtown, possible longshot being Cedars/Reunion/HSR site.
Of course... anything up around DNT/121 is possible/more likely. But, I know they tend to focus on more urban setting.

I'd say Dallas is a long shot altogether, but maybe not as much as some folks would think.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 07 Sep 2017 09:45

The spire is the only spot in DT I can think of. I think they'll go to Austin tbh. The whole foods buyout and Austin's tech culture will land them the HQ.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Sep 2017 10:56

I figured I would see what people were saying on forums that weren't Dallas-specific:
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/ ... ubbed_hq2/

A decent number are predicting Austin, and a few more simply saying "Texas". One comment was particularly interesting, though:
"One of the requirements is that they want access to a major international airport which is one thing going against Austin" (/u/Drisc0).

I don't know if there is truth to that, but that would certainly work in Dallas's favor.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 07 Sep 2017 11:06

The Whole Foods buyout may lead people to believe it's Austin, but I think with the size of the HQ they need, it would be hard to find all the talent they need in Austin. Also, Austin does not have a drop in the bucket of the flight options that DFW has and Austin's airport is currently maxed out. Austin may be hyped for a tech culture, but there is a far larger sheer number of IT workers in the DFW area than in Austin. Combine that with a larger talent force for logistics, finance, and pretty much every other job category, and DFW makes a ton of sense. Whole Foods will continue to have a separate HQ in Austin.

If they come to DFW, I hope that they land somewhere downtown. Spire, or the Perot site (and Texas' tallest tower) would be great!

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 07 Sep 2017 11:20

Just because I want to be the first, I'm going to go ahead and call this for Dallas.

Data Center capacity - regional electric network already providing for one of the favored US locations of data centers. The potential for electricity from renewable sources is world class (haha) on the Texas Grid, and the motivation to improve renewable supply is strong despite the fossil fuel lobby. Balancing wind with the pending solar expansion is a logical step and super attractive to a company like Amazon. Electricity from Natural Gas is an ace-in-the-hole for cleaner fossil fuel.

Techy job market - largest in the Central Time Zone. (twice the size of Austin btw). Good local universities currently ramping up the tech teaching.

DFW Airport - the domestic reach of Southwest is big bonus. With two major domestic hubs and a top 5(?) international hub, connectivity is also world class (ha).
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Sep 2017 11:24

How likely is it that Austin will provide incentives for Amazon? I don't follow their city close enough to really know if this is something they would do.

I'm only asking because it seems like, as it is, they are struggling a bit with growth and probably need to sort that out before incentivizing a big company like Amazon to move there.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 07 Sep 2017 11:40

We have 82,000 employed in information; Chicago has 84,500.

https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.tx_dallas_msa.htm
https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/il_chicago_msa.htm

Anyway, maybe we should back Mark Cuban and his 175+ acres a couple miles due south of City Hall.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 07 Sep 2017 12:18

They want an urban campus. It's in their requirements. As much as I'd like to see South Dallas invigorated by a corporate campus, I don't think this is the one. Thankfully, that probably also means it's not going to the northern burbs if it comes to DFW.

I've seem some message board topics on this, and Dallas and Austin seem to be the front-runners in people's opinions, with North Carolina (Charlotte or Raleigh) coming in after that. However, people who suggest DFW also seem to be suggesting the northern burbs. That would be wrong for so many reasons IMHO. The young workers they'll be hiring will want to live in Deep Ellum, East Dallas, Downtown, Uptown, Bishop Arts, Cedars. The Cedars is prime for massive residential development and has light rail and bus access, making it perfect to house Downtown workers! I'm excited to see where Amazon goes.

Also, according to those BLS statistics above, Dallas has 82,000 InfoTech workers while Austin has 27,900 InfoTech workers. Also, Dallas' count seems to be growing while Austin has lost 2,400 in the last few months., which is almost 10%!
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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 07 Sep 2017 12:20

Commuter rail access is a likely secondary or tertiary factor.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 07 Sep 2017 12:27

tamtagon wrote:Commuter rail access is a likely secondary or tertiary factor.


It may be more important than you think. The RFP asks "Please also include transit and transportation options for commuting employees living in the region. For each proposed site in your region, identify all transit options, including bike
lanes and pedestrian access to the site(s). Also, list the ranking of traffic congestion for your
community and/or region during peak commuting times."

Plano/Frisco would do terribly on both ends of that question. Dallas would be hurt in the traffic congestion portion, but we could sell our transit system as growing and malleable when it comes to the bus system changes. Plenty of development sites around light rail for office buildings and residential development, too (like the aforementioned Cedars).

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 07 Sep 2017 12:43

How much space was in that Headington ATT proposal for the Ross/Griffin corners?

This really could sell-out Spire's arts district adjacent property.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Sep 2017 13:08

Is Spire even actively marketing that property anymore. Obviously, Amazon is a big fish to catch but Spire doesn't have the gravitas to seriously get Amazons attention. They have the land but Amazon will want a partner that can get the job done and Spires track record is start-up company without the good things associated with such an endeavor. They had a lot of flash in the pan but no real growth. If anything it would be KDC they have plenty of experience building in North Texas with putting together large HQs with surrounding development. The Deep Ellum Epic project isn't big enough as it is right now but KDC could work with Trammel Crow on let's say the Sam's Club site or some other property and get it done easily.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Sep 2017 13:11

As a side note talk about dangling a steak in front of the lion's den. Everyone will be willing to bend over backward and sell the whole city down the river to snag this deal.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dfwcre8tive » 07 Sep 2017 13:19

AMZN has a few offices in Texas already, and both are expanding (Austin Domain and Dallas Galleria).

Their development pattern in satellite cities is generally incremental growth (lease a floor here, expand, lease another building, expand, etc) with no real long-term development plan. This HQ2 would be a change in that pattern.

In Seattle, they have chosen to place most of their campus downtown in a mix of leased and owned buildings. Being a frugal company they prefer multiple, flexible buildings over one showcase tower. They don't provide parking and have limited services so that employees spend their time in the neighborhood (and public transportation). It's the opposite of a suburban campus approach. They also use multiple architects and design teams working on their projects and partner with a developer (Vulcan in Seattle and Trammell Crow in Bellevue).

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-new ... his-place/

Of course, some locals have complained that Amazon has destroyed Seattle with the current housing shortage, high cost of living, strain on infrastructure, and a large company that until recently did not "give back" to the community in any meaningful way.

If they were to choose Dallas and wanted to build new I think areas like Cedars/Riverfront, Design District, or Reunion would be a good fit. But from the outside Dallas isn't really thought of as a tech hub compared to places like Austin, Washington, DC. and Boston.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 07 Sep 2017 13:28

dfwcre8tive wrote:But from the outside Dallas isn't really thought of as a tech hub compared to places like Austin, Washington, DC. and Boston.


You're right, it isn't "thought of" a tech hub, but it is and is much larger than overhyped Austin (I work in the IT industry, but on the business side). Most Americans also don't think of Dallas as the 4th most populous metropolitan area, but it is. I think even locals don't know. Almost everyone, included on this board, might also not know that the microchip was invented in Dallas by Jack Kilby at Texas Instruments. That's a neat fact. We do not market ourselves well.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Sep 2017 13:29

Also leaving out Houston's current disasters state are they a contender in any way? I am asking this just for the sake of getting an answer. I imagine San Antonio is also not on the list for reason.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Sep 2017 13:30

Matt777 wrote:We do not market ourselves well.


But we created the word "Metroplex" as a marketing term to describe Dallas/Fort Worth...

I would say the marketing problem you speak of is because Dallas is always trying to project a different image than what we are. I think Austin does a good job of marketing itself as a Texas city that's cool, hip, tech, and original. Dallas tries to be all things to all people. We tend to market heavily as a slick New York/LA combo that is amazing in every way and super business friendly. That's the two personalities I hear in my head when I think of the two cities. Even though I know that Austin's is just as manufactured as Dallas their message sounds better than the Dallas one.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Sep 2017 13:43

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Also leaving out Houston's current disasters state are they a contender in any way? I am asking this just for the sake of getting an answer. I imagine San Antonio is also not on the list for reason.


At this point, I suppose anyone could potentially be a contender. I, personally, can't think of a reason why they would pick Houston over Dallas or Austin though.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dfwcre8tive » 07 Sep 2017 13:44

Here are some cities that could be good fit for Amazon’s second HQ
Originally published September 7, 2017 at 8:50 am

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/am ... second-hq/

Austin
Boston
Denver
New York City
Pittsburgh
San Francisco
Toronto

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Sep 2017 14:02

If they are considering places like Boston, NYC, San Francisco, I honestly don't think Texas has a chance. I guess it comes down to what they want.

Texas can provide a lot of economical advantages, but if they are looking to be in the heart of a big city, then most of those other cities would be a MUCH better fit.

I wonder why Chicago isn't on that list, they do have a major international airport.

EDIT: I suppose I shouldn't say Amazon is 'considering' these cities, because the reality is we don't know anything about who they are considering. But if we assume this article is actually accurate, then what I said is true.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 07 Sep 2017 14:20

Looks like the article is spitballing just as much as we are. Personally, I don't see SF (proximity redundancy) or NYC (sheer cost) being viable options. I don't know enough about Boston to evaluate.
But reading into the actual RFP, it seems much of the requirements fit right into Dallas wheelhouse. The require transit on site, and while they mention busses, I can bet you a company of this profile will not solely depend on busses as their 'transit' alternative.
When you factor in transit and airport, Austin looses ground on the Texas front. As for DFW region, I think DNT/121 and Midtown suffer due to transit limitations as well.
Spire site (perhaps administered by other developer) or Texas Stadium site seem like prime contenders. Although Texas Stadium site suffers on 'community' or 'cultural' marks, it does have a very solid master plan for the timeline and could provide a clean slate to make their mark. I have no doubt build out would follow quickly, but may not be 'genuine' enough.
Spire site definitely fits the bill.
Pinned between Uptown, DE, Downtown, and having the Arts district at it's doorstep is a huge plus. There really is no weakness to the site other than possibly the developer itself, which could really end up being anybody.
This will be a fun one to watch for sure... Probably the biggest 'fish' ever floated at one given time.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 07 Sep 2017 14:26

At the end of the day, Amazon is a business. They will choose what is best for their needs and bottom line. They have stated they need a business and tax friendly environment, READILY available workforce of 50,000, and READILY available site to build a campus easily, without obstruction, along with housing. Also required in the RFP is an EXISTING 500,000 square feet building to start. Picture Austin trying to add 50,000 housing units with their current infrastructure and ever increasing regulations, not to mention their already overpriced housing prices which will skyrocket to west coast prices if Amazon moves there. In DFW, we have 50,000 multifamily properties already under construction just at this moment, not to mention multiple times their talent base even in InfoTech.

For all those east coast cities, see above and multiply housing prices, taxes, and regulation to the power of 2.

It will take a certain type of place to make a big, grand vision like this happen.

If they do build this in Austin, it will be the final nail in the coffin of what that city used to be, unfortunately.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dfwcre8tive » 07 Sep 2017 14:29

Site requirements from the RFP (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 43504_.pdf):

Building/Site Requirements: Amazon is considering greenfield sites, infill sites, existing buildings, or a
combination for the Project. If existing buildings are available that can be retrofitted/expanded within
an acceptable budget and time schedule, Amazon may consider this option; however, the company
acknowledges that existing buildings may not be available to meet its requirements. As such, Amazon
will prioritize certified or shovel-ready greenfield sites and infill opportunities with appropriate
infrastructure and ability to meet the Project’s timeline and development demands, as set forth
below.

Proximity to population center: 30 miles
Proximity to International airport: 45 minutes
Proximity to major highways and arterial roads: not more than 1-2 miles
Access to mass transit: at site / Direct access to rail, train, subway/metro, bus routes

Priority for Consideration (in no particular order):
Amazon will consider the following site/building categories for the Project:
1. Existing buildings of at least 500,000+ sq. ft., meeting the core requirements described
above and that are expandable or have additional options for developmentnearby.
2. A greenfield site of approximately 100 acres certified or pad ready, with utility infrastructure
in place. The sites do not have to be contiguous, but should be in proximity to each other to
foster a sense of place and be pedestrian-friendly.
3. Other infill, existing buildings, including opportunities for renovation/redevelopment and
greenfield sites, meeting the proximity and logistics requirements of the Project. This can
also be a combination of the above.
4. Please also consider the overall proximity of the buildings at full build-out as you are making
recommendations.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dfwcre8tive » 07 Sep 2017 14:31

Ideal site/developer for Phase I? 60 acres on Riverfront Boulevard and Cadiz Street south of downtown ready for development by Matthews Southwest.

http://www.matthewssouthwest.com/projec ... he-rivers/

Image

“Upon completion, the approximately $400 million project is expected to feature a mix of residential, commercial and retail uses in a transit-oriented and pedestrian-friendly urban environment,” Tricon said in an announcement of the purchase. “The project will also provide future residents and visitors with direct access to the planned Trinity Lakes, a key component of the multibillion-dollar Trinity River corridor project,” Tricon said.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 07 Sep 2017 14:42

The irony for Spire... Is that their inability to execute anything on their tract of land up to this point, may end up being their strength (not by their choosing of course). Keep in mind, they aren't a developer themselves, but just a Real Estate Investment company. Surely, they have realized by now that these lots won't sell themselves. I'd bet that they'd be willing to give significant leeway to offload the entire place to a single player. Combine that with the fact that there are several other nearby lots and existing buildings from other owners which are readily available, and you have a setup that is hard to match in any other significant metro.
That same 'high vacancy rate' discussion we were having about the CBD turns into a strength. Few cities with our workforce availability, low cost of living, transit availability, and global accessibility can match that.
Hopefully, the pro's are reaching out to Spire to put together a sweet deal.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby TNWE » 07 Sep 2017 14:48

DPatel304 wrote:If they are considering places like Boston, NYC, San Francisco, I honestly don't think Texas has a chance. I guess it comes down to what they want.

Texas can provide a lot of economical advantages, but if they are looking to be in the heart of a big city, then most of those other cities would be a MUCH better fit.

I wonder why Chicago isn't on that list, they do have a major international airport.

EDIT: I suppose I shouldn't say Amazon is 'considering' these cities, because the reality is we don't know anything about who they are considering. But if we assume this article is actually accurate, then what I said is true.


I can't imagine Amazon finding a way to build an urban campus (similar to what they've got in Seattle) in Boston, NYC, San Fran, Toronto, or possibly even Denver. They're too built-up with existing, leased buildings and sky-high real estate costs. Keep in mind that Seattle's current real estate market is a product of Amazon & others growing explosively. South Lake Union was "cheap" when Amazon started.

I don't think Amazon would go for "The Spire" as developers currently have it planned, but that land is ideally located between CBD, Arts District, and Deep Ellum (especially if it triggers a new DART LRT stop in/near the tunnel portal) and it's a blank slate.

As for existing space, I don't know exact figures, but I think One Arts Plaza and the TC Center have or will have vacancy in the near future as options for immediate space while they build the campus.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 07 Sep 2017 14:53

muncien wrote:The irony for Spire... Is that their inability to execute anything on their tract of land up to this point, may end up being their strength (not by their choosing of course). Keep in mind, they aren't a developer themselves, but just a Real Estate Investment company. Surely, they have realized by now that these lots won't sell themselves. I'd bet that they'd be willing to give significant leeway to offload the entire place to a single player. Combine that with the fact that there are several other nearby lots and existing buildings from other owners which are readily available, and you have a setup that is hard to match in any other significant metro.
That same 'high vacancy rate' discussion we were having about the CBD turns into a strength. Few cities with our workforce availability, low cost of living, transit availability, and global accessibility can match that.
Hopefully, the pro's are reaching out to Spire to put together a sweet deal.


True! I'm sure they'd be happy to unload all that assemblage of prime land for the right price, all at once. And there's plenty of existing office space in surrounding buildings to start out with while the campus is built out.

Headington's San Jacinto and Field spot would be great, along with additional vacant parcels in the West End. The warehouse office culture going in to the West End would actually be a great fit, combined with glitzier highrise office space at San Jacinto and Field to form a nice urban campus with two different vibes. I think Griffin Street would have to go on a road diet or be re-imagined, though.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 07 Sep 2017 15:02

tamtagon wrote:
DFW Airport - the domestic reach of Southwest is big bonus. With two major domestic hubs and a top 5(?) international hub, connectivity is also world class (ha).


Just to quickly answer your question, No, DFW is not a top 5 international hub. Top 10, yes (#10, to be exact). But it's in the top 2 in Texas!

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tnexster » 07 Sep 2017 15:11

In the middle of the US, no other region is as well positioned as DFW. We have the prime location in North America, DFW Airport plus a second airport near downtown, light rail and most importantly we are probably the most attractive location just because of the workforce and our ability to attract 400 new people a day which would increase dramatically if we land this. I have mixed emotions as I believe landing this one would permanently alter the landscape here in ways we don't understand. We would become significantly less affordable overnight. We already have a housing problem and are overpriced for many in our communities, upward pressure on real estate prices and taxes will push even more over the edge. We now know what to expect when a company like Toyota lands in the market and how significant that single change can make for all of us. Landing one like this, although desirable to any economic development organization and probably every city in the metro, in reality, this one would be difficult to swallow. Companies already have trouble finding people to work, imagine adding Amazon down in the middle of DFW with 50,000. Toyota was 5,000 if you add all of the other relocations that moved into Legacy area in the past 2 years you are looking at 25,000 - 30,000 new jobs. Apartments won't fill the bill, these people will want a house or a condo, all of which means adding a lot of housing units whatever they happen to be and that takes time and resources. I would assume this would be a phased in relocation project so it would likely span several years. It sounds good when you read the headline, something like this planted downtown would completely alter the dynamic of downtown/uptown and every other adjoining area. I am not sure how I feel but I do think the region has an excellent shot at winning it. If DFW does win it I would expect the values of all of our homes and properties to shoot up again.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Sep 2017 15:20

TNWE wrote:I can't imagine Amazon finding a way to build an urban campus (similar to what they've got in Seattle) in Boston, NYC, San Fran, Toronto, or possibly even Denver. They're too built-up with existing, leased buildings and sky-high real estate costs. Keep in mind that Seattle's current real estate market is a product of Amazon & others growing explosively. South Lake Union was "cheap" when Amazon started.


Yeah, that's very true. Honestly, all signs are pointing to Dallas, I guess I'm just trying my hardest not to get my hopes up just yet.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Sep 2017 15:22

Add the Dallas-Fort Worth region to the list of places vying for a second Amazon headquarters.
Mike Rosa, senior vice president for economic development of the Dallas Regional Chamber, said on Thursday that the organization has "communicated to Amazon our intent to respond" to the Seattle-based online retail giant's request for proposals.

"We are reviewing the RFP and look forward to showcasing for Amazon the many reasons why there is no better place than right here for Amazon's HQ2."

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/eco ... adquarters

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tnexster » 07 Sep 2017 15:24

How Dallas is making a big play for Amazon's second North American headquarters

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... allas.html

The possibilities are endless in North Texas, which is known for its sprawling landscape. But real estate sources say the decision will likely come down to finding the right tech and logistics talent needed to help Amazon.com continue its growth into the future.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Sep 2017 15:48

When there are 5 billion dollars in real estate potential all those cities would be willing to make some room and I doubt they don't have some availability at some abandoned warehouse industrial site just as Dallas has a list of those. Hell for that kind of potential the city of Dallas could offer their Deep Ellum land as a potential site. We know the city would certainly find the money to clear that land of city offices yesterday if it meant Amazon was interested.

Also, I don't see San Franciso ending up on the list because they already have issues with companies like Google, Apple, Salesforce etc that have sent prices skyrocketing for urban living. There is a serious problem when it comes to housing in San Francisco and it has affected the employment of those very same workers that work at those Dot Com's. Also if they want a new selection of workers why would you try to compete toe to toe with San Francisco startups and mature dot com companies. If you can find a new source for quality tech workers why dip into a city already angry about its dot com madness. Too much success can be a weakness and that is a true reality in San Francisco.

I still don't consider the Spire site as a serious contender but I do think Dallas alone has some serious options. I do think the Mathews Southwest site is a winner though.

Keep in mind if they do select a site in Dallas any land within any close proximity of that site will instantly become valuable. Historical buildings will become irrelevant to private developers who don't need Amazons approval to clear their land for shopping centers targeting the onslaught of potential customers. The "me too" gold rush of developers will be there in droves and willing to wipe out anything to throw up their own money making vision.

I do wish that property down Lamar that DISD owns was a better fit. You have a combo of a large old warehouse plus lots of land for a campus development.

Hell give Amazon Fair Park it has two stations and they would do a better job than the State Fair at the point.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 07 Sep 2017 17:49

I say Dallas should allow Amazon to develop any part of downtown and Give them a tax abatement for decade or so. It will be worth it DTD long term as it would probably have a similar impact as Toyota.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 07 Sep 2017 17:56

You guys are missing what I think has to be the front runner: Toronto.

I think Dallas is the best-positioned US city, but I'm feeling pessimistic that we'll end up #2 overall.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 07 Sep 2017 18:01

tanzoak wrote:You guys are missing what I think has to be the front runner: Toronto.

I think Dallas is the best-positioned US city, but I'm feeling pessimistic that we'll end up #2 overall.


No doubt TO is a great city. But is it Tax Friendlier than Texas?

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Matt777
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 07 Sep 2017 19:16

tanzoak wrote:You guys are missing what I think has to be the front runner: Toronto.

I think Dallas is the best-positioned US city, but I'm feeling pessimistic that we'll end up #2 overall.


Trump and his Trumpians would have a meltdown. And with his very reactionary and impulsive tendencies, any mention of creating jobs overseas/over the border will result in a massive headache for Amazon from the current administration. Not to mention boycotts and outrage from his followers.

So to review possible sites in Dallas that could be marketed, we have heard in no particular order:

1. Spire site in the Eastern Central Biz District
2. Field/San Jacinto & West End (Headington)
3. Matthews Southwest site on the Trinity (where exactly are we talking here, where HSR is supposed to go?)
4. Perot site on Woodall Rogers
5. Mark Cuban's land in South Dallas (lacks transit nearby?)
6. City Land in Deep Ellum
7. The Cedars

Others that haven't been mentioned might be:
1. Trinity Groves (would need some sort of rail line built to connect to Downtown)
2. Midtown/Valley View site (also lacks rail)
3. Something in the Harwood District, like those flashy highrise renderings we saw recently.

I'm hoping and praying that we don't pitch them the Plano special of the week boring suburban campus........ please no.....

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 07 Sep 2017 20:21

How long is this going to take? I'm almost exhausted already! j/k

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willyk
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby willyk » 07 Sep 2017 20:46

The city is Dallas based on existing success stories. 50,000 employees does not mean PhDs and MBAs. It means tech savvy operational people. Those are the same people who are already fueling the successful Liberty Mutual, TDAmeritrade, State Farm, JPMorganChase, etc. projects. The people Amazon needs are here in multitudes. Bonus points for a low tax environment, especially compared to NY, CA and IL.

The location is Reunion Arena because of 1 headquarters visiilty 2 proximity to two good airports 3 proximity to light rail, commuter rail and HSR 4 freeway access to all parts of the metroplex 5 close to all of the cool neighborhoods some people want 6 accessible to the suburban neighborhoods other people want. Second place based on the same criteria goes to the Hillwood Urban site in Victory.

LongonBigD
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby LongonBigD » 07 Sep 2017 21:22

Why couldn't they use Midtown/Valley View? I only saw it mentioned here once as an option. I think it would be a great option. How much land is available there? 500K sq ft nearby? Probably in Galleria, if not, Chase AND Fannie Mae are vacating JPM International towers on DNT very soon. While the site is not urban, it is also not suburban.

Biggest negative: No rail. For that financial impact this would bring, put all the smart people in a room and make a rail line along LBJ now. It would be a huge undertaking, but totally worth the investment. Especially since it should have already been done.

Another thought....old Texas Stadium site? It already has rail. Excellent DFW access. Is there 500k sq ft of existing available space at Las Colinas?
Last edited by LongonBigD on 07 Sep 2017 23:09, edited 1 time in total.

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PonyUp13
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby PonyUp13 » 07 Sep 2017 21:49

As much as people think of Amazon as a tech company (and it totally is don't get me wrong) it would not surprise me if they made HQ2 basically their retail segment's HQ. This is an area where Dallas excels moreso than almost any other metro because we have such a strong retail/consumer products base of headquarters. Furthermore AWS is their cash cow and Dallas is the sort of place that excels with that sort of un-sexy tech.

It is hard to beat the collection of land, labor, and capital you have access to in Dallas and the state is not going to be outbid by anyone else.
Last edited by PonyUp13 on 07 Sep 2017 22:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Matt777
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 07 Sep 2017 22:05

PonyUp13 wrote:As much as people think of Amazon as a tech company (and it totally is don't get me wrong) it would surprise me if they made HQ2 basically their retail segment's HQ. This is an area where Dallas excels moreso than almost any other metro because we have such a strong retail/consumer products base of headquarters. Furthermore AWS is their cash cow and Dallas is the sort of place that excels with that sort of un-sexy tech.

It is hard to beat the collection of land, labor, and capital you have access to in Dallas and the state is not going to be outbid by anyone else.


I hadn't even considered that. Dallas has retail in its blood. Another plus for the Big D!

And to add some levity to this thread:
Image

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 07 Sep 2017 23:18

PonyUp13 wrote:As much as people think of Amazon as a tech company (and it totally is don't get me wrong) it would not surprise me if they made HQ2 basically their retail segment's HQ. This is an area where Dallas excels


word

Spire certainly has some great land for this deal, but not the only strong attribute for that corner of Downtown. Plaza of America has availability, and could build on the parking garage. Hall is right there with plans for a skyscraper, Billingsley is across the street with One Arts and ready to go development initiatives, and Crozier Tech owners want to build, too.

Elm-Main-Commerce will have the best rail opportunity hands down. Plenty of available space to get started, and room to grow.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 08 Sep 2017 00:36

Matt777 wrote:
tanzoak wrote:You guys are missing what I think has to be the front runner: Toronto.

I think Dallas is the best-positioned US city, but I'm feeling pessimistic that we'll end up #2 overall.


Trump and his Trumpians would have a meltdown. And with his very reactionary and impulsive tendencies, any mention of creating jobs overseas/over the border will result in a massive headache for Amazon from the current administration. Not to mention boycotts and outrage from his followers.


Eh, in addition to Toronto's advantages as a city, a location in Canada offers a hedge to increasing immigration restrictions in the US. It's easy to hire foreign workers in Canada, and Amazon hires a lot of them. Granted, they'd need more if located in Canada, but it'd be worth it if US policy gets even less amenable to their needs.

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rantanamo
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby rantanamo » 08 Sep 2017 02:07

Put me in for Midtown(2nd choice. Dust off those LBJ line plans) or the Matthews(1st) site. Dream site would be to fill the Spire site with highrises. I would imagine the Texas Stadium site would be pretty attractive to them above all though.

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I45Tex
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 08 Sep 2017 04:21

I've seen Toronto mentioned on other sites, and while HQ2 is too large for East Bayfront it could get its initial turnkey half million square feet there and then turn the corner into the Port Lands. Islands, beaches, marinas ... though their LRT hasn't reached the Cherry St streetcar yet, as far as HQ2, I think it's theirs to lose.


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