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Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 22 Sep 2017 10:11

Yall do realize the Sam's Club site is not anywhere near big enough? Even if you absorbed the Target shopping Center site you would be barely scratching the surface of how much land they have requested access to.

The Sam's Club site with the land at the corner another developer owns is 25 acres. Amazon has requested access to some 100 acres. The Target shopping center is 14.5 acres. The developable parts around City Place Tower are 3-5 acres. So that leaves us short another 55 acres...

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 22 Sep 2017 10:26

As mentioned before the Mathews Southwest land makes one of the best senses proposals. Its shovel ready will have high-speed rail connected to Houston for easy port access etc. DART is close by and using some of his lands on the north side of the railway would make the connection a much firmer handshake. Dallas County and the city have already been redoing Riverfront Blvd with bike lanes and the infrastructure underneath the roads with new sewers, water lines etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Mathews could get the large warehouse that sits between the rail yard and the Southside.

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Matt777
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 22 Sep 2017 10:26

Realized that, but also realize they aren't going to get 100+ acres that meet all their other requirements in an urban environment in a good city near mass transit for a $5 billion project cost. If they can get the 40-45 acres, plus maybe eventually ~15-20 more where the Target center is, they can get pretty close. They can also buy an array of smaller parcels nearby over time like they've done in Seattle. For comparison, the front running site in supposedly front running Philadelphia (Schuylkill Yards) is 14 acres total. Not sure what Denver and Chicago are offering up, acres wise.

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Matt777
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 22 Sep 2017 10:28

cowboyeagle05 wrote:As mentioned before the Mathews Southwest land makes one of the best senses proposals. Its shovel ready will have high-speed rail connected to Houston for easy port access etc. DART is close by and using some of his lands on the north side of the railway would make the connection a much firmer handshake.

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How many acres is this? Isn't some already set aside for the HSR station? It could be a cool site, and should be consdired, but I hope they find some creative ways to integrate it better with Downtown and The Cedars. It feels kind of isolated. But it will have a front seat to the Trinity Park.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 22 Sep 2017 10:31

Matt777 wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:As mentioned before the Mathews Southwest land makes one of the best senses proposals. Its shovel ready will have high-speed rail connected to Houston for easy port access etc. DART is close by and using some of his lands on the north side of the railway would make the connection a much firmer handshake.

Screen Shot 2017-09-22 at 10.23.00 AM.png


How many acres is this? Isn't some already set aside for the HSR station? It could be a cool site and should be considered, but I hope they find some creative ways to integrate it better with Downtown and The Cedars. It feels kind of isolated. But it will have a front seat to the Trinity Park.


The main empty block of land is 55 acres. The rest of the surrounding parcels bring the total up to 110 acres. HSR main money driver is the development that surrounds its station. Matthews already has a deal with HSR for developing the site with the HSR station so a partnership with Amazon to build out their own water garden office complex seems appropriate.

https://dallascityhall.com/government/meetings/DCH%20Documents/park-board/Briefing_110316%20Dallas%20Water%20Gardens.pdf

Screen Shot 2017-09-22 at 10.44.34 AM.png

http://www.stoss.net/projects/27/trinity-riverfront/
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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 22 Sep 2017 10:42

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... one-amazon

Toyota developer thinks Dallas can land the big one with Amazon
by Steve Brown

Steve Van Amburgh, KDC development, "If they truly are tapped out in the talent market up in Seattle, and they have this incredible demand for new people and human capital, where else in the country could they go that would be better than Dallas,"

"The veteran Dallas developer predicts that Amazon's expectations may be ahead of what ultimately happens. Who has ever done 5 million square feet and 50,000 employees?" he said. "I say it's 50 percent maybe going to happen.


This has been reported to be a 10-15 years build out, so easy to acknowledge the RFP's parameter for 50,000 employees in 8,000,000 sq ft office space is dynamic, certainly pending changes in the retail world.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 22 Sep 2017 10:55

cowboyeagle05 wrote:
Matt777 wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:As mentioned before the Mathews Southwest land makes one of the best senses proposals. Its shovel ready will have high-speed rail connected to Houston for easy port access etc. DART is close by and using some of his lands on the north side of the railway would make the connection a much firmer handshake.

Screen Shot 2017-09-22 at 10.23.00 AM.png


How many acres is this? Isn't some already set aside for the HSR station? It could be a cool site and should be considered, but I hope they find some creative ways to integrate it better with Downtown and The Cedars. It feels kind of isolated. But it will have a front seat to the Trinity Park.


The main empty block of land is 55 acres. The rest of the surrounding parcels bring the total up to 110 acres. HSR main money driver is the development that surrounds its station. Matthews already has a deal with HSR for developing the site with the HSR station so a partnership with Amazon to build out their own water garden office complex seems appropriate.


The level of cooperation between Dallas developers could either make or break proposals for downtown.

Collaborations that could win:
Matthews, Hunt and Turkish Mike flank the convention center and city hall with HQ2 campus.
Headington, Perot, VP German Investors line HQ2 along D2.
Headington, Harwood, Hillwood put HQ2 between Katy Trail and Ross@Griffin.
Hillwood, Harwood, VP German Investors finish to two masterplanned neighborhoods with HQ2.
Billingsley, Spire, Hall decorate the Arts District with HQ2.

I'm sure every other town in this fight has similar developer pairings that can make or break a big deal like this.

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Fitch
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Fitch » 22 Sep 2017 11:21

Matt777 wrote:Realized that, but also realize they aren't going to get 100+ acres that meet all their other requirements in an urban environment in a good city near mass transit for a $5 billion project cost. If they can get the 40-45 acres, plus maybe eventually ~15-20 more where the Target center is, they can get pretty close. They can also buy an array of smaller parcels nearby over time like they've done in Seattle. For comparison, the front running site in supposedly front running Philadelphia (Schuylkill Yards) is 14 acres total. Not sure what Denver and Chicago are offering up, acres wise.


Houston has a mostly vacant 150 acre site adjacent to their downtown, about 3/4 mile from the light rail station. Seems like that's not getting much coverage.

http://eastriverhtx.com/
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Matt777
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 22 Sep 2017 12:33

Fitch wrote:
Matt777 wrote:Realized that, but also realize they aren't going to get 100+ acres that meet all their other requirements in an urban environment in a good city near mass transit for a $5 billion project cost. If they can get the 40-45 acres, plus maybe eventually ~15-20 more where the Target center is, they can get pretty close. They can also buy an array of smaller parcels nearby over time like they've done in Seattle. For comparison, the front running site in supposedly front running Philadelphia (Schuylkill Yards) is 14 acres total. Not sure what Denver and Chicago are offering up, acres wise.


Houston has a mostly vacant 150 acre site adjacent to their downtown, about 3/4 mile from the light rail station. Seems like that's not getting much coverage.


Is it in a flood zone or area that could be susceptible to rising sea levels? What about the ability to draw tens of thousands of new workers to relocate from other US areas in spite of the recent disaster and common flooding? 3/4 of a mile from a station isn't too good either, especially considering how small the reach/length of the Houston system is.

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Fitch
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Fitch » 22 Sep 2017 12:57

Is it in a flood zone or area that could be susceptible to rising sea levels?
No.

What about the ability to draw tens of thousands of new workers to relocate from other US areas in spite of the recent disaster and common flooding?
Unaffected.

3/4 of a mile from a station isn't too good either, especially considering how small the reach/length of the Houston system is.
Are new rails impossible to lay down?

But back to Dallas...I still think the Cedars location is the most viable site given the criteria, assuming the land on S. Riverfront can be picked up.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 22 Sep 2017 15:07

This thread is raising my hopes. I must stop before I'm emotionally invested in Amazon HQ2. Lol

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 22 Sep 2017 16:14

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:This thread is raising my hopes. I must stop before I'm emotionally invested in Amazon HQ2. Lol


You are worried about getting your hopes raised? Can you imagine the real estate locators, commercial leasing agents, developers, business journalists, city economic development personnel etc who are foaming at the mouth at just 5% of the Amazon HQ2 business?

The sheer number of companies right now in Dallas alone that are shopping for land to buy just in case Amazon does pick Dallas. Apartments and retail space developers just need a slight hint and they will lock down anything they can get their hands on. Amazon is going to cause a gold rush once the decision is made for land all over the city. Projects once on the back burner will all of a sudden have a new found interest.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby ContriveDallasite » 22 Sep 2017 18:33

cowboyeagle05 wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:This thread is raising my hopes. I must stop before I'm emotionally invested in Amazon HQ2. Lol


You are worried about getting your hopes raised? Can you imagine the real estate locators, commercial leasing agents, developers, business journalists, city economic development personnel etc who are foaming at the mouth at just 5% of the Amazon HQ2 business?

The sheer number of companies right now in Dallas alone that are shopping for land to buy just in case Amazon does pick Dallas. Apartments and retail space developers just need a slight hint and they will lock down anything they can get their hands on. Amazon is going to cause a gold rush once the decision is made for land all over the city. Projects once on the back burner will all of a sudden have a new found interest.


Well if that didn't get you frothing?

It's definitely worth noting that Amazon is seriously shopping for "Urban space", and is also looking at being a major redevelopment player for an entire city sector. Imagine a full build out of the West End District, The Spire, maybe aligning new development in the southern part of the CBD, becoming neighbors with AT&T.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 24 Sep 2017 17:57

Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings says city will offer incentives for Amazon HQ2
By Tristan Hallman, Dallas Morning News, 09-23-17

Mayor Mike Rawlings said Saturday that there is "no question" the city will offer incentives to entice Amazon to bring its second headquarters to Dallas.
...
"Fundamentally, you've got to decide, are you going to grow, or not?" he said. "If a company says, 'I'm going to bring 50,000 employees, what are you going to do for me,' that's a fair transaction."
...
The mayor said Dallas is "a legitimate contender" for Amazon. He touted the region's tech workforce, its airports and its diverse and growing economy as ideal for the online retail giant.

Rawlings threw out as potential landing sites the midtown project on the former Valley View mall site and an area southwest of downtown along Riverfront Boulevard that is earmarked for development.

But first, he said, the city will join up with other North Texas areas. He said he spoke on Friday with more than a dozen other mayors in the area to team up on a pitch.
...
But Amazon, which is based in downtown Seattle, lists as important factors direct transit access and other factors that some suburbs, such as Frisco, currently lack. Rawlings said he will fight hard for Dallas when the time comes.

"We're going to be as aggressive as the next guy in the city of Dallas," Rawlings said. "This is a game-changer."

Article: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-city-hall/2017/09/23/dallas-mayor-mike-rawlings-says-city-will-offer-incentives-amazon-hq2

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 24 Sep 2017 18:07

Good article looking at the Amazon search in very practical terms ... Dallas definitely is a very solid candidate when examining the numbers and our track record in delivering this very type of solution over the last several years.

Who can handle Amazon’s 50,000 jobs? Dallas adds twice that many every year
By Mitchell Schnurman, Dallas Morning News, 09-24-17

Amazon’s second headquarters could transform a region, but how many cities have the bandwidth to handle the massive project?

It involves 8 million square feet of office space eventually, along with big incentives, mass transit connections and a stable, pro-business climate. Perhaps most important, Amazon needs a labor pool that can provide 50,000 workers, including many tech specialists.

It’s a daunting number of new jobs, especially from a single company, and few regions have a record of such job growth.

But Dallas-Fort Worth is one that does.
...

Article: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/economy/2017/09/24/can-handle-amazons-50000-jobs-dallas-adds-twice-many-every-year

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby R1070 » 24 Sep 2017 19:18

Umm... Can someone tell the mayor that the Valley View site and the area along Riverfront Blvd. aren't on any rail lines? Amazon wants to be near transit, how hard is that to sink in? Frisco and other burbs trying to bid for it are either blind or clueless. SMH.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby hjkll » 24 Sep 2017 19:43

As has been stated before, I think Dallas has a really good shot unless they promote "The Region", "The Metroplex", and "DFW" ahead of Dallas. Though the Mayor thinks they could be in the Valley View/Midtown site, I am extremely doubtful. Amazon is an urban company that grew nimbly by taking floors of existing buildings piece by piece, not building out some giant suburban campus at the edge of town.

The only area that should be promoted is Downtown. 20 minutes from Love Field, 40 from DFW. I could see them first leasing floors across multiple buildings in the core (which would be great because there are quite a bit of vacancies in the downtown towers). Then they would eventually build a few buildings on the surface lots on the eastern and southern sections of downtown. Even Rawlings promoting areas directly south of the loop won't work. They want to be near mass transit which is downtown in the loop.

I think Dallas will be a #2 or 3 candidate, but will ultimately lose out to either Philadelphia or DC. Denver is already too close to Seattle and has quite a bit of NIMBYism. Boston is already quite dense and expensive. Atlanta is most likely neck and neck with Dallas. I don't know why but I just don't see it happening for Austin.

Unfortunately I think our regional leaders in economic development councils who themselves find it acceptable to get in their car and zoom from Arlington to Frisco back to Dallas everyday, will repel Amazon with that kind of thinking.

I think a large part of what is hurting our chances is Dallas' flashy, overzealous image. When most people think of Dallas they don't think of the walkability of McKinney avenue or the hyper growth of Victory Park towers, or the renaissance of Main St downtown, or the hipster neighborhoods of Deep Ellum and Bishop Arts, they think of McMansions in the suburbs and tacky lighting displays on the Omni Hotel. Until Dallas starts portraying itself as less Jerry Jones and more Erykah Badu. I think we'll continue to be overlooked.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby R1070 » 24 Sep 2017 20:18

Exactly. Dallas needs to know the right approach here. "Midtown/Valley View" is not the answer to what Amazon is looking for. Central Dallas is what they need to focus on. They can mention the region in terms of demographics and population stats, but not as potential sites.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 25 Sep 2017 10:12

R1070 wrote:Umm... Can someone tell the mayor that the Valley View site and the area along Riverfront Blvd. aren't on any rail lines? Amazon wants to be near transit, how hard is that to sink in? Frisco and other burbs trying to bid for it are either blind or clueless. SMH.


Valley View correct but Riverfront Blvd is close enough to rail. Would Amazon like the DART line right in the middle of their 100+ acres sure but as long as it's in the 15-20 min walk window they will be happy. Either Design District or Cedars Riverfront Blvd has that. Replace the Dragon street galleries and you have lots of acreage between the Victory DART/TRE station the new Riverfront Blvd Bike lanes and new underground infrastructure they city is building in for future development.

South of the CBD you have a couple of options. You can work with Mathews Southwest on the blank land he controls just south of the railroad tracks that HSR plans to use some of that land and build out that Belmont Street pedestrian bridge they have had plans for years now. Also, Mathews has options on further land near the Cedars DART station on the north side of the tracks. That large industrial warehouse that sits behind South Side is a potential site too.

Both sites can see improved connections to the Trinity Trails with small projects funded by the city. The Design District site could potentially connect to the Continental Bridge Park and new office space that is shovel ready for Victory Park. If they went to the land south of Stemmons and the Design Center aka Dragon Street the city could finally improve the abandoned rail bed below Stemmons and make a viable connection to the Victory Station.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 25 Sep 2017 15:09

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Would Amazon like the DART line right in the middle of their 100+ acres sure but as long as it's in the 15-20 min walk window they will be happy. Either Design District or Cedars Riverfront Blvd has that.


To the extent that Amazon cares about transit access (and I'm not making a claim one way or the other right now), 15-20 min away might as well not exist. People just don't walk that far. This is true in very dense places and particularly true in a place like Dallas, where transit is already not very convenient.

Too often in this forum I feel like transit is viewed as some kind of talisman, with the mere presence nearby somehow meaning something. The point of transit is to provide a convenient transportation option. If it doesn't do that, it's not worth much.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 25 Sep 2017 17:02

Deep Ellum Has Its Own Amazon HQ2 Proposal
The neighborhood group has located a spot just to the west of Exposition Blvd. and adjacent to Fair Park that it believes best satisfies the expectations laid out in Amazon’s request for proposals. In an email, Deep Ellum Foundation Executive Director Jessica Burnham explains that, unlike some of the suburban bids, the Expo Park site offers available land for infill development that can accommodate both new buildings and adaptive reuse of historic structures. It would be located adjacent to a vibrant urban neighborhood, accessible to rail and trails, and have Fair Park at its door step.

For Dallas, the benefits of such a location are obvious. An Amazon HQ2 located at the entrance of Fair Park could help revitalize the park, and it would bring tons of jobs right to the edge of South Dallas. The plans also show how a redevelopment of the area could tie into the CityMAP plans for lowering I-30 and could be accomplished within current zoning.

For Amazon, the location offers the kind of walkable, vibrant, urban environment that the company knows it needs to recruit employees, while also situating the new headquarters a short skip away from a major continental distribution and logistics center: the Inland Port project in southern Dallas. Rope in easy access to the Trinity River and Trinity Forest, and while it isn’t exactly kayaking on the Puget Sound or snowboarding at Mt. Baker, it starts to look like what Amazon might actually be looking for in a new home.

A proposed central location of the new Amazon headquarters, like the idea of placing it in Expo Park, both represents DFW’s best shot at landing the Amazon headquarters and happens to be the most advantageous location for maximizing the headquarters’ impact on promoting regional sustainable growth, mobility, and access to jobs. In other words, there is a strong regional argument to be made that the best place to locate Amazon in North Texas would be at the center of the region.

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... -proposal/

So it looks like maybe each region in DFW will simply just make their own proposal to Amazon directly. I wish we had some organization and coordination from our side. We need to be realistic and realize there are only a handful of locations that make sense. Frisco does not make sense at all, but Frisco could still benefit if Amazon were to locate Downtown or anywhere else in the metroplex. This is such a huge move that no matter where they locate, a good portion of the metroplex will see some sort of benefit from the move.

I think Deep Ellum is a decent spot for Amazon, I just wish DFW could come together, review all of our sites, and come up with a handful of winners to propose to Amazon, rather than trying to compete against each other.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Sep 2017 09:03

DPatel304 wrote:

So it looks like maybe each region in DFW will simply just make their own proposal to Amazon directly. I wish we had some organization and coordination from our side. We need to be realistic and realize there are only a handful of locations that make sense. Frisco does not make sense at all, but Frisco could still benefit if Amazon were to locate Downtown or anywhere else in the metroplex. This is such a huge move that no matter where they locate, a good portion of the metroplex will see some sort of benefit from the move.

I think Deep Ellum is a decent spot for Amazon, I just wish DFW could come together, review all of our sites, and come up with a handful of winners to propose to Amazon, rather than trying to compete against each other.


Be careful cause every time Dallas decided to work with the burbs Dallas gets shafted because Dallas agrees to be seen as an equal with the suburbs. The burbs are never willing to concede to any urban proposals. I would say the best foot forward would be a two-pronged approach. An urban DFW proposal and suburban proposal.

Everytime Dallas sits at the DFW table the burbs railroad Dallas into being just another suburb. I understand the economics of DFW I have lived here all my life the burbs carry a lot of weight I see the reasons why too. I was born in Garland for that matter but Dallas rarely knows how to lead and command the room when they have the advantage. The suburbs often snap back and burry Dallas as just another city in the sea of cities despite what the RFP make be asking for. At some point, the burbs have to acknowledge that Dallas does have some centrical force even if it's not all the checkboxes that Plano or Frisco has in their favor. To disregard Dallas as just another one in the list is how we lose some serious proposals and is disadvantageous for the whole region.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 26 Sep 2017 10:40

I don't mind having several locations in the mix (lord knows we have many), but I do worry about them drowning each other out. I mean... Amazon has boxes that need to be checked, and one of those boxes is Transit. It doesn't say 'within' so many miles or minutes, or even 'proposed'.... It says 'required' and 'on-site'. I really don't think busses are what they are talking about. That seems to eliminate so many locations. Doesn't it make more sense to offer up those sites that MEET their requirements so as not to dilute the proposal in general?
Also, I get that Amazon requested that regions submit a consolidated proposal, but that doesn't mean everyone within the region needs to be included. If your site doesn't meet the requirements, it should even be included, right? If anything, maybe just an 'honorable mention' section at the very end... ?
We really have to get this right. Even if not for Amazon specifically, this presentation will likely go public at some point and countless other prospects would LOVE to read into the same proposals just to save themselves a ton of work.
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 26 Sep 2017 11:02

I'm getting more excited about the Mathews Southwest site, and Riverfront Blvd. in general to build a whole new riverfront community. I just noticed that the southern terminus of Riverfront hits DART tracks by Rock Island on the Mathews Southwest site, so a dedicated Amazon DART station could be built there. Run a new streetcar up Riverfront and through the Design District (with pedestrian/tunnel/skywalk connections to Cedars Station, Union Station, Victory Station), and you've got a multimodal transit winner. They could build facilities up and down Riverfront, office buildings, residential towers, it would be an amazing transformation. The city could sweeten the pot by offering them the disused jail property on Riverfront for data center conversion.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 26 Sep 2017 11:07

Matt777 wrote:The city could sweeten the pot by offering them the disused jail property on Riverfront for data center conversion.


Wow... never considered that. But very good idea!
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 26 Sep 2017 11:38

Nice to see these rolling in!

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... amazon-hq2

West Dallas' Trinity Groves owner teams with KDC, Gensler in bid to woo Amazon HQ2
by Maria Halkias

-- West Dallas Investments, which owns Trinity Groves and surrounding acres, has partnered with developer KDC and architecture firm Gensler to submit a proposal to Amazon.com. ... location at the base of the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge ... 80 acres that are "shovel-ready" for Amazon,

-- The Dallas Midtown project planned where Valley View Mall is being torn down was already being prepped to be a Dallas location big enough to compete regionally with undeveloped land in the suburbs.

-- Property owners of Exposition Park, located between Fair Park and Deep Ellum, have filed a proposal with the city. Madison Partners LLC put together a group that says it has all the pieces Amazon has said it wants including "at site" mass transit.

-- In Oak Cliff, investors who own a key development site just south of Downtown Dallas are pitching the property that includes the old Oak Farms Dairy and other land owned by Cienda Partners.


Just to check, has Matthews Southwest officially engaged the proposal process?

Has the same sort of thing happened in the other assumed top contenders? Almost certainly, I'd guess.

I'm still waiting to see a developer/architect/property owner consortium from within the CBD, specifically spanning the existing rail corridor and D2 (Headington), or Victory Park - Harwood Dallas - Headington. The train station availability is outstanding, and I'm looking curiously at Katy Trail possible extension to the Convention Center on Field or Griffin. ATT would have to love hosting the meeting of Katy Trail and Sante Fe Trail.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby whi5125 » 26 Sep 2017 16:23

They are rolling in, but hopefully they can reach the eyes and ears of Amazon / Bezos.

I do hope that the Mathews and Riverside site puts something forth, because that would really be great to transform that area from nothing to something spectacular with the incoming Trinity River Park. And I would love it if that hideous jail got torn down to open up space and make way.

I am also curious if anything is going to be pushed in the CBD. There is the land in and around city hall / the convention center as well, not to mention the Spire and Perot Sites (if Amazon would look at one big tower, which is unlikely).

I think having this thing either on the banks of the river in downtown or if you cant do that, at least in the CBD, is absolutely key for Dallas.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby R1070 » 26 Sep 2017 19:03

If Dallas keeps toying with rolling back business hours to Midnight, that will run off businesses that are trying to attract young talent.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 26 Sep 2017 19:11

R1070 wrote:If Dallas keeps toying with rolling back business hours to Midnight, that will run off businesses that are trying to attract young talent.


This is the first I'm hearing of this. Is this simply because the demand isn't there in Downtown yet? If so, just a simple announcement from Amazon would certainly change this almost instantly.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Fitch » 26 Sep 2017 21:33

I wonder if the Matthews land is otherwise tied up with Texas Central as part of the HSR deal?

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 26 Sep 2017 21:38

^I thought at one point early on, when station location was still up in the air there were estimates how much land Texas Central would need, and I have a faint memory impression it was like 60 acres...? Even though it would destroy what was once the coolest neighborhood in Dallas, I would prefer Expo Park over Cedars-Southside....

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Sep 2017 09:55

DPatel304 wrote:
R1070 wrote:If Dallas keeps toying with rolling back business hours to Midnight, that will run off businesses that are trying to attract young talent.


This is the first I'm hearing of this. Is this simply because the demand isn't there in Downtown yet? If so, just a simple announcement from Amazon would certainly change this almost instantly.


A stupid idea by Kingston!

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/04/10/city ... -for-bars/

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 27 Sep 2017 12:49

There's a DBJ article from yesterday that mentions DFW Airport land as a site being touted for Amazon HQ2. Funny... I was thinking just that the other day. Unlike many airports for major cites that find themselves out on the edges of town, DFW does have the unique situation of being seated right in the middle of the region. Having a strong cargo presence and transit is also a strength, but it just seems weird to have your business all wrapped up in the airport operations. I think that may be pushing it a bit too far. And, if you aren't talking about airport proper, than anything just outside the airport just seems like a far out suburb. I hardly see any opportunity of creating an 'urban' environment that Amazon touts. Interesting though...

They also mention 12-14 DFW cities are in play... many with multiple sites. I really hope we aren't watering down our approach too much.
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 27 Sep 2017 13:14

muncien wrote:There's a DBJ article from yesterday that mentions DFW Airport land as a site being touted for Amazon HQ2. Funny... I was thinking just that the other day. Unlike many airports for major cites that find themselves out on the edges of town, DFW does have the unique situation of being seated right in the middle of the region. Having a strong cargo presence and transit is also a strength, but it just seems weird to have your business all wrapped up in the airport operations. I think that may be pushing it a bit too far. And, if you aren't talking about airport proper, than anything just outside the airport just seems like a far out suburb. I hardly see any opportunity of creating an 'urban' environment that Amazon touts. Interesting though...

They also mention 12-14 DFW cities are in play... many with multiple sites. I really hope we aren't watering down our approach too much.


Definitely an interesting thought. I don't think it's a right fit for Amazon, but people wanting suburban campuses might find that location to be pretty good.

On a slightly related note, I have a bunch of family that live near Manchester, England and, apparently, that city is doing exactly that. There have been jobs relocated close to the airport. I don't know how many or what the size of this company is, but, the result is, is that getting to and from the airport during rush hour is now a royal pain because you're dealing with people going to and from work.

I know DFW is a bit different and jobs are kinda all over the metroplex, so if you're going to the airport, you'll probably hit traffic anyway, but, I think having a lot of traffic all going to the airport won't be good for people trying to travel during those times.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 27 Sep 2017 14:19

Apparently this is the DFW property in question... Doesn't seem to fit the criteria if you ask me. But, of the four sites Irving is offering up for consideration (LC Urban Center, LC Hidden Ridge, Old Texas Stadium site), this 'Passport Park' seems to be at the bottom of the list.
https://www.dfwairport.com/landhere/pas ... /index.php
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Sep 2017 17:38

Victory Park stakeholders aim to lure Amazon to Dallas with partnership

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... on-to.html

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby kingpin » 27 Sep 2017 18:43

All the details of Victory Park's bid for Amazon HQ2

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2017/09/27/details-victory-parks-bid-amazon-hq2

Several property owners around American Airlines Center in Victory Park have put together a site proposal for Amazon HQ2.

Real estate companies, which on most days are competing with each other for big commercial building projects, have come together over the past couple of weeks to create a site plan for Amazon.

The group led by Ross Perot Jr.'s Hillwood Urban and Hunt Realty Investments includes Hines, Karns, Cousins, Provident Realty Advisors and Estein USA.



Seeing Amazon's expansion in downtown Seattle and how it was outgrowing the region, Hillwood proposed to the tech and e-commerce giant last summer that it should build an office building in Dallas.

Hillwood showed Amazon an architect's drawing of a tower it would build in Victory Park in June, said Ken Reese, executive vice president at Hillwood. He believes Amazon had plans in motion back then for an expansion, but "everyone was surprised" that it was an HQ2, he said.


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Seattle-based Amazon unleashed a flurry of activity across major U.S. markets when it said on Sept. 7 that it's looking for a second headquarters somewhere in the U.S. or Canada in a city with at least 1 million residents.

"It's impressive the speed at which they are moving," Reese said in an interview Wednesday. "We have the first building already designed for them."

Hillwood has built 17 facilities totaling 14 million square feet for Amazon in eight states, including fulfillment centers Texas.

Ross Perot Jr. said the proposal is similar to Amazon's Seattle campus and he believes it "possesses all of the amenities and requirements Amazon is seeking."


"It's in the heart of an urban and vibrant city environment, adjacent to mass transit and key transportation infrastructure," Perot said in a statement. "And we can offer plenty of office development sites for them to execute their vision for a second North American headquarters."

This time many believe that the 2.5-mile radius around the center of downtown Dallas has an advantage over the suburbs.


Visiting Amazon's Seattle offices a number of times, Reese said the demographic of the typical employee is similar to residents in Uptown and downtown Dallas. "This is a younger demographic versus what drove Toyota to Plano was more about home prices and school districts," Reese said.

"This area of town is made to order," said Walt Zartman, senior vice president at Hillwood, adding the pitch includes multiple actual photos of amenities such as urban parks, trails and street scenes versus the drawings of similar settings that other developers will present.

"It's all here. There's no need to imagine it," Zartman said.

The Victory Park proposed site located on the northwestern edge of downtown covers 22 acres where several buildings can be built in an area around the Perot Museum of Nature and Science, Woodall Rodgers Freeway and I-35. Included is the historic Brewery building in the West End District and stretches through Victory Park to empty parcels north of the American Airlines Center.

The first building with the 500,000 square feet that Amazon said it needs for Phase 1 will be built next to the existing Victory Park DART transit station, Reese said. DART has a proposal to add another stop at the Perot Museum in 2024, he said.

The proposed buildings include one north of Woodall Rodgers Freeway right across from the El Fenix restaurant. The historic El Fenix restaurant would stay, but parking lot around it is part of the new building plan.


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The Northend apartments built in the 1990s next to the Perot Museum would be leveled to build a high-rise office building. About a dozen buildings in all are part of the plan to reach the 8 million square feet that Amazon said it needs for its second headquarters, Reese said.

Dallas' real estate community is rallying hard for Amazon because "it's would be uplifting across the market," said Todd Watson, senior vice president of Hunt Realty Investments. "In the end, Amazon is going to pick a place where their employees want to live."

Whether Amazon wants an infill urban area or a big empty space where it can build a corporate campus, Reese said, "This area has all the choices."

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby kingpin » 27 Sep 2017 18:46

DPatel304 wrote:
Deep Ellum Has Its Own Amazon HQ2 Proposal
The neighborhood group has located a spot just to the west of Exposition Blvd. and adjacent to Fair Park that it believes best satisfies the expectations laid out in Amazon’s request for proposals. In an email, Deep Ellum Foundation Executive Director Jessica Burnham explains that, unlike some of the suburban bids, the Expo Park site offers available land for infill development that can accommodate both new buildings and adaptive reuse of historic structures. It would be located adjacent to a vibrant urban neighborhood, accessible to rail and trails, and have Fair Park at its door step.

For Dallas, the benefits of such a location are obvious. An Amazon HQ2 located at the entrance of Fair Park could help revitalize the park, and it would bring tons of jobs right to the edge of South Dallas. The plans also show how a redevelopment of the area could tie into the CityMAP plans for lowering I-30 and could be accomplished within current zoning.

For Amazon, the location offers the kind of walkable, vibrant, urban environment that the company knows it needs to recruit employees, while also situating the new headquarters a short skip away from a major continental distribution and logistics center: the Inland Port project in southern Dallas. Rope in easy access to the Trinity River and Trinity Forest, and while it isn’t exactly kayaking on the Puget Sound or snowboarding at Mt. Baker, it starts to look like what Amazon might actually be looking for in a new home.

A proposed central location of the new Amazon headquarters, like the idea of placing it in Expo Park, both represents DFW’s best shot at landing the Amazon headquarters and happens to be the most advantageous location for maximizing the headquarters’ impact on promoting regional sustainable growth, mobility, and access to jobs. In other words, there is a strong regional argument to be made that the best place to locate Amazon in North Texas would be at the center of the region.

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... -proposal/

So it looks like maybe each region in DFW will simply just make their own proposal to Amazon directly. I wish we had some organization and coordination from our side. We need to be realistic and realize there are only a handful of locations that make sense. Frisco does not make sense at all, but Frisco could still benefit if Amazon were to locate Downtown or anywhere else in the metroplex. This is such a huge move that no matter where they locate, a good portion of the metroplex will see some sort of benefit from the move.

I think Deep Ellum is a decent spot for Amazon, I just wish DFW could come together, review all of our sites, and come up with a handful of winners to propose to Amazon, rather than trying to compete against each other.



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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby R1070 » 27 Sep 2017 20:09

Amazon in Deep Ellum would be such a great fit! Victory Park and Reunion are great options too!

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby buildingswithlegs » 27 Sep 2017 20:18

Dallas should just release a blanket incentives packet for anything in the city limits with a few recommendations. The incentives are the ultimate draw for a dallas campus. The victory park proposal is very enticing in my view

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Sep 2017 20:54

R1070 wrote:Amazon in Deep Ellum would be such a great fit! Victory Park and Reunion are great options too!


Overall Victory is the better of the two options. Although, I think having the HQ near I 30 would spring off new developments in area that probably is in more dire need.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 27 Sep 2017 21:15

The statement in the Morning News article that "Hillwood has built 17 facilities totaling 14 million square feet for Amazon in eight states, including fulfillment centers in Texas" is pretty impressive.

This should signal to some extent that Hillwood has a bit of an "inside track" if you will with Amazon since they have already been involved in multi-million square foot projects for the company.

Additionally, Hillwood already proposed building them a single office building in Victory Park last summer so the fact that Amazon has now stated their actual requirement to be much more than one office building and Hillwood now coordinating this incredible Victory Park Amazon Urban Village proposal carries I believe much more weight than not.

Hillwood clearly already has Amazon's ear and confidence and has proven itself a reliable commercial partner on a massive scale ... Hillwood now helping orchestrate HQ2 in the most incredible of urban settings is just icing on the Hillwood cake with Amazon.

Building 4 in the Urban Village graphic is clearly Hines Interest's long planned Victory Center office building and Building 6 is clearly the planned Perot Tower.

FINGERS CROSSED!!!!

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Victory Park Amazon Urban Village, Downtown Dallas, 09-27-17

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 27 Sep 2017 21:23

This is probably the strongest candidate in Texas.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby PonyUp13 » 27 Sep 2017 21:32

Hunts and Perots teaming up... wow. That is an incredible group that will have no trouble marshaling resources and getting incentives.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 27 Sep 2017 22:15

The fact that Hillwood has built so much for them in the past and was pitching them an office building at this site a couple of months ago is so huge.

There's going to be so many proposals that there has to be some big-time connection with developers they know get stuff done for them to even really consider it.

Gotta think this is basically our "official entry."

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 27 Sep 2017 22:27

On top of which, this location really does seem to tick off all of the boxes.

Direct access to highways that take you everywhere.. super easy driving access from north Dallas and DNT suburbs, mid cities, oak cliff, even points east (though have to drive through downtown).

Excellent transit access directly on a DART station (and presumably a future second one too). Plus on top of TRE for easy transit access to mid cities and Ft Worth.

6 miles to Love, less than 20 to DFW. Plus, the DART stop is on the line that takes you to DFW.

The neighborhood is currently desirable, with plenty of amenities (and the Katy Trail). Don't have to take a huge chance on a neighborhood that is only hypothetical desirable once you build it out yourself.

Everything about the site seems good, the only remaining concerns are the regional ones: lack of strong university pipeline and perception of Dallas as a less desirable place to recruit high-level people to.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 27 Sep 2017 22:42

I would love to see HQ2 built in Victory Park. To me, the area feels very corporate and fitting for a big corporate relocation such as Amazon. The Deep Ellum/Fair Park area seems more fitting for startups and smaller companies. It almost sounds like Amazon wants to be seen as a young, hip startup that would fit into Deep Ellum, but, personally, I think they have grown too large and I definitely see them fitting better in Victory Park. It's exactly what the city needs to really bridge the gap between Uptown, Downtown, and the West End, and I'm so glad the Northend apartments would be razed as a part of this plan.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby mwaskow » 27 Sep 2017 23:29

I love the Victory Park bid. Seems like a great place for Amazon to do what they did in Seattle. Take a "good" infill neighborhood and transition it to a "great" one. In the event that Amazon does a best and final process eliminating the field down to say 5 cities proposals, I see a great opportunity for Dallas to pony up during the November bond election. Approve the Klyde Warren Park expansion, and get cracking on the Trinity River Park. Doing this along with DART getting underway on the D2 expansion should show Amazon the city is committed to growing along with them and their aggressive ambitions. I think the private investment around this proposed Amazon Urban District would come in droves. This could set the Design District on fire for development as Uptown/Harwood/Victory Park have very limited development sites available (especially after all of this). If only there was something that could be done with Little Mexico Village the density from Cedars up to Oak Lawn/Medical District would be unrivaled in not only Texas but the Southern US. If we landed Amazon in the urban core of Dallas, and with Toyota, Liberty Mutual, etc. moving to the northern suburbs, I wouldn't be surprised to see our already insane population growth magnify for the foreseeable future. We'll be a denser Los Angeles without the beach before we know it!

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 28 Sep 2017 00:15

mwaskow wrote:We'll be a denser Los Angeles without the beach before we know it!


Decades of shade from New York have made people have no idea how dense LA is. It's extremely dense, it just doesn't have the same peak as some of the older cities.

Here's a same-scale comparison:

Image

But yes to all the other boostery things!

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby mwaskow » 28 Sep 2017 01:03

tanzoak wrote:
mwaskow wrote:We'll be a denser Los Angeles without the beach before we know it!
Decades of shade from New York have made people have no idea how dense LA is. It's extremely dense, it just doesn't have the same peak as some of the older cities.


I may have been exaggerating a bit, but in the time I have spent in LA it DEFINITELY feels more congested but for some reason to me it doesn't seem to feel more dense; more like a larger version of DFW. Maybe a better choice of words would have been walkable or bikeable. Especially once you get into the San Bernardino valley it feels like a California version of our northern suburbs, yet not as vertical.

I often find myself trying to find another major US city to compare DFW to and I keep coming back to this thought of the Los Angeles of the South. My basis on that is we have a decent urban core (yet underperforming) and we are similarly a very spread out car-centric city otherwise. Also like Los Angeles we have numerous urban cores as a whole: CBD/Uptown, Legacy, Downtown Fort Worth, Telecom Corridor, Knox/Henderson, etc.


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