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Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 24 Mar 2018 13:20

Jasimm wrote:So I live in a suburb of San Francisco and there is essential no change noticeable here. Actually most people you talk to are saying how bad traffic is with all the new residents. Yes the housing is expensive, but people are still buying and selling home like nothing has changed. Tech companies are still opening left and right as well as a huge biotech center south of San Francisco that is full of cranes. Interesting article I guess because I just don't see any change here.


Pro tip: never trust Bay Area residents' perceptions of development or population changes. A couple of buildings is a building boom and a small population increase is a wave of people.

In reality, San Jose and San Francisco are population growth and development laggards. On a percentage basis, they're #32 and #33 in population growth, respectively, out of the 50 largest metros, behind such booming locales as Cincinnati and Louisville. Last year, San Francisco permitted 43% fewer housing units per 1000 people than Seattle, a city that is expanding to accommodate economic growth instead of just pumping it in into the ground. San Jose is even worse.

In terms of domestic migration, San Jose was actually even worse than SF's 24k outflow, at 26k. Overall, the Bay Area is still increasing in population, but that's mostly due to natural increase. Likewise, the number of jobs is still increasing, but that's because the number being created is more than the number leaving.

The fact that people and companies are fleeing our strongest and most innovative economic region is insane. The fact that "I just don't see any change here" is true is the problem. We should be experiencing massive change like Seattle or Austin or Dallas, but we're barely seeing any. Well, except for massive real estate appreciation that prices out the middle class and screws the young, but besides that..
Last edited by tanzoak on 24 Mar 2018 15:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Matt777
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 24 Mar 2018 14:19

tanzoak wrote:There's a new bill making its way through the legislature that would upzone basically everything within 1/4 mile of 15-minute headway transit to 85 feet and between 1/4 to 1/2 mile to 55 feet and force as-of-right permitting instead of discretionary. That would certainly fix the problem! And Texas wouldn't be getting all those CA relocations anymore.


We need this in Dallas around DART stations, combined with allowing 2-6 plex multifamily on single family lots within a 1/4 mile of rail stations.

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utgf
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby utgf » 25 Mar 2018 01:31

tanzoak wrote:Pro tip: never trust Bay Area residents' perceptions of development or population changes. A couple of buildings is a building boom and a small population increase is a wave of people.


Thank goodness that you are such a pro! What exactly are we gaining by further growth? When I lived in Dallas 11 years ago, I really appreciated growth because there were so many empty lots in Dallas that made the city look blighted. And Dallas lacked so many amenities you expect from a large city. Having lived here since then, a couple of building is a building boom when there are barely any empty lots left. And be honest, its more than a couple of buildings. Area south of market has been completely transformed in spite of all the anti development forces in play. I live next to Salesforce tower and the area has become almost unlivable with all the development noise, barricades and traffic. And how much further out in the metro should growth go. Its like a Pavlov reaction to growth for just growth's sake.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 25 Mar 2018 12:56

utgf wrote:And be honest, its more than a couple of buildings. Area south of market has been completely transformed in spite of all the anti development forces in play. I live next to Salesforce tower and the area has become almost unlivable with all the development noise, barricades and traffic. And how much further out in the metro should growth go. Its like a Pavlov reaction to growth for just growth's sake.


That's the point. Growth is only allowed in basically one neighborhood, meaning development is actually pretty intense there. Meanwhile, everywhere else is static, so overall growth is miniscule. (Vote for Sonja for D6 supervisor to spread the development around to north of Market and the west side!)

As for what we are gaining by further growth.. the *cheapest* places w/ at least 2BRs within 40 min of my wife's work near downtown SF are $700,000. And that's in West Oakland, a very low income neighborhood (though less and less so). We'll likely be able to afford that one day because we make good incomes and have supportive parents, but that's crazy.

For people who could afford "only" $400,000, that's a 60+ min commute from some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country. For actual low-income people, it means being forced out of the metro altogether if they lose their current housing situation.

No growth doesn't mean no change. It means ever-higher housing costs and longer commutes. We have world-beating companies here, and we're just sinking that money into the ground instead of using it to buy higher living standards. It's crazy that I make 25% more than I would in Dallas but come out even monetarily (and with crappier housing) after cost of living is accounted for.

Maybe you're a homeowner who doesn't care about the impacts to your fellow residents and on the state and national economies and is happy to just collect the excess appreciation. I think "I got mine, now screw y'all" is a crappy way to be, but to each his own. That's not a good basis for public policy, though, and CA cities' irresponsible use of land use controls is why the State has started taking back some of that power.

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eburress
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 29 Mar 2018 13:11

"Dallas dodges list of Amazon HQ2 ‘biggest losers,’ while Toronto, Miami and LA get tagged"

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... osers.html

I don't think this has been posted yet, but there are some interesting points. Essentially, they're predicting Amazon won't go to Toronto, Miami, LA, Chicago, or NYC, which isn't shocking, but supports others' predictions.

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dallasrookie
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallasrookie » 29 Mar 2018 17:51

https://actionnetwork.org/letters/amazon

Are they on to something? A brand new website and petition have been formed, titled “Obviously Not D.C.,” that argues, “Let’s prioritize D.C. communities, not the world’s richest man.” On the website, Bowser is criticized for “rushing to give away an unknown amount of taxpayer money” to attain HQ2.

Now it will be unethical for people in other states to sign this petition. I’m just saying.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 31 Mar 2018 15:32

Amazon earned $5.6B in 2017, but paid no federal taxes
By Megan Henney, Published February 27, 2018, Markets, FOXBusiness

Jeff Bezos’ sprawling e-commerce giant Amazon reportedly raked in more than $5.6 billion in U.S. profits in 2017, but despite that, the company essentially paid $0 in federal income taxes.
...
Bezos, the richest person in the world with a net worth of $105 billion, is in the midst of a nationwide hunt for a second Amazon headquarters locale. Amazon officials said they expect to invest more than $5 billion in construction costs and create at least 50,000 high-paying jobs in the selected city, which has been narrowed down to 20 contenders.

But in hopes of wooing Amazon, a number of cities are offering tax incentives. State and local officials in New Jersey have offered a combined $7 billion in tax incentives to lure Amazon to Newark, and Chicago offered $2 billion in tax breaks (and hinted it was willing to go higher).

Generation Opportunity, a center-right political advocacy group that’s linked to billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, has started running attack ads on social media opposing some of the tax incentives offered to Amazon.

"Amazon is one of the largest, most successful corporations in the world – it doesn't need help from struggling taxpayers to build its second headquarters," Generation Opportunity policy director David Barnes said in a statement.
...
Article: https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/amazon-earned-5-6b-in-2017-but-paid-no-federal-taxes

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I45Tex
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 31 Mar 2018 21:51

There may be becoming a critical mass of young people who won’t be “talked back down from” ethical stands, or even seduced with career opportunities like the Boomers were, now that they’ve seen for sure just how thoroughly and dishearteningly impossible it is to be a Weinstein, Gates, Kalanick, Ellison, Sackler, Bezos, Brin or Zuck or Madoff or Elizabeth Holmes “real professional success” in our post-1970s American framework AND remain a genuine servant-leader non-thug human being citizen. Not going to convince them it’s worth it to be one or worth it to work for one.

They may even realize, if corporations are legal individuals under free speech campaign finance law, that it’s high time for them to live natural lifespans. What fairness is there having two classes of individual - the mortal and the immortal - duke it out in political conflicts?

Some might cite Warren Buffett as proof you can be good and great in America, but the man’s eighty seven and a half, and even if he didn’t IPO till 1990, he already had a hundred-million net worth in 1980. Not exactly proof positive that Generation Z can do it if they try (and if they haven’t been poisoned yet on the corporate EPA’s watch).

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby whit5125 » 01 Apr 2018 09:12

What? Amazon does pay taxes, fox news (a registered entertainment network in court) and Trump aren't reliable sources of information.

So, how about the Securities and Exchange Commission instead?

"Additionally, in its latest annual report to the Securities and Exchange Commission, Amazon said it paid $957 million in income taxes in 2017. The company previously reported paying $412 million in income taxes in 2016, $273 million in 2015 and $177 million in 2014, according to the commission."
- https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nyt ... k.amp.html

Is Amazon a bit scummy? Yes, and we shouldn't give them a lot of benefits IMO, some are okay but giving them free everything or $7 billion like New Jersey did? Hell no.

Anyway, enough of this derail.

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I45Tex
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 01 Apr 2018 15:58

I concur, except that it's not a mere matter of whether this firm's practices deserve incentive packages, Whit. New Jersey and Dallas and all other urban suitors explicitly want Amazon to come in as the trendsetter for their next-gen business image/growth/community.

Even if everyone substantially agreed on what incentives should be offered and then that package won the 'contest,' it won't be the end of story, or of what's on topic right here. There'll still be the real possibility that Dallas can't truly "afford" HQ2 to be its corporate calling card in the modern world, even if it can and does afford the initial beauty pageant. That possibility is worth full discussion.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 01 Apr 2018 22:13

I45Tex I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

I think you're trying to argue that Amazon coming to Dallas will be bad for Dallas because young people won't want to come here anymore? Which, uh..

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Pike5370 » 02 Apr 2018 08:52

whit5125 wrote:What? Amazon does pay taxes, fox news (a registered entertainment network in court) and Trump aren't reliable sources of information.

So, how about the Securities and Exchange Commission instead?

"Additionally, in its latest annual report to the Securities and Exchange Commission, Amazon said it paid $957 million in income taxes in 2017. The company previously reported paying $412 million in income taxes in 2016, $273 million in 2015 and $177 million in 2014, according to the commission."
- https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nyt ... k.amp.html

Is Amazon a bit scummy? Yes, and we shouldn't give them a lot of benefits IMO, some are okay but giving them free everything or $7 billion like New Jersey did? Hell no.

Anyway, enough of this derail.


The FoxBusiness story was talking about federal income tax for 2017, while your story provides data for "income taxes" for 2017 which, dare I need to say it, is a much broader category. Furthermore, the $957 million number you cite is taxes paid, but does not reflect operating loss carryforwards or other federal tax credits. And lastly, you are aware that Amazon does business internationally, right? Which means their SEC filings will have both US and foreign taxes in the income tax expense category.

To put a period to this derail: Amazon's publicly filed 10-K shows a U.S. Federal tax credit of $137 million. Other taxes paid were U.S. state and foreign taxes.

I guess if one has a difficult time understanding the data presented to them at a basic level, one is inclined to dismiss certain news sources out of hand. Unfortunately, you are always free to make incorrect statements.

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I45Tex
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 02 Apr 2018 09:09

While I do in fact think we highly overestimate the attractiveness of North Texas to young people when comparing the probable top of our longterm growth lifecycle to the near-trough of Chicago's or LA's, that's truly for some other thread. What I was "trying to argue" is that a city that tries to wrap itself in the flag of an up-and-coming megabrand is not that different from a Rust Belt city trying a "flagship" or "silver bullet" economic catalyst to take it to the next level. In those cases as in ours, the next level frequently is just a discovery that when the smartest guys in the room get going, their buzz can "go" - or flip over - just as fast as it arrived, leaving both eroded local ethics and a national black eye. Sure, most of the choices that third parties alter as a result of a black eye in business culture are never documented and so remain totally debatable.

And anyone can insist that Houston's woes can't be tied at the margin to its poster-child status with Enron, or Birmingham's to Healthsouth, or Jackson's to Worldcom, and that's fine. I certainly agree they all have bigger problems than who their favorite business citizen and promotional piece of flair had been twenty years ago -- though in each case a decade went by where many decisionmakers remembered those cities' schoolboy crushes on embarrassed companies and felt embarrassed for them.

But I think it's even more dubious to run on a sense of, "well, we're in a bigger league than that now, aren't we," or maintain that who we in Dallas recruit as de facto free-enterprise role model couldn't erode local ethics, so that it's primarily tech and regional investment and infra details that are the items relevant to our thinking about HQ2 recruitment pros and cons.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 02 Apr 2018 09:51

The potential to pay more in incentives than getting HQ2 is worth is a very real concern. And since there's no real national interest in where HQ2 is located, ideally cities/states would band together and commit to no incentives. Unfortunately, there are local optimums that include paying incentives, making coordination in that area difficult.

The public RFP process for this has certainly been gauche, but the idea that winning it would somehow be negative for the city because a) it means we're try-hards, b) maybe it doesn't work out down the line, c) maybe they're involved in a major scandal, or d) maybe it erodes local ethics (?) is a weird conflation of hyperawareness of the potential to lose face with the actual effects on people's lives. The only real net negative that could result from getting this relocation is if we pay a ton of incentive money.

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I45Tex
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 02 Apr 2018 12:03

Most of life is small ball, tanzoak. I guess you'll (?) just as often as you like, but it's the same way I wouldn't base a business in a state that embraces casinos -- show enough citizens that it's better to be lucky or networked than good, and long-term that's the kind of locale you will build. The habits and excuses and examples we make will then "conflate" on unexpected timelines and become actual civil expectations. If that's a little weird for you, it happens.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 02 Apr 2018 12:17

I still don’t really know what you’re talking about. Why would an Amazon relocation/expansion to Dallas be bad? Was the Toyota relocation bad? If not, what’s the difference? Because Amazon decided to be a little more public than usual about seeking incentives?

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 03 Apr 2018 09:52

On a less serious note... I am just glad Amazon doesn't make me utter their holy name every time I want my echo to turn the lights on, or initiate a timer. For that fact alone, I have no problem if they move here. But, that other tech [G]iant can su*k it...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cbdallas » 03 Apr 2018 10:58

Just for branding purposes alone I think they should locate 2nd Headquarter actually in the middle of the Amazon.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallaz » 16 Apr 2018 18:13

Jeff Bezos will be in Dallas on Friday at the Bush Center. I’m sure local Dallas leaders will try to get more info on Dallas’ running for HQ2 or try to sell Dallas to Bezos.

It will be interesting...

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 16 Apr 2018 18:43

So, the Bush Center has been open 5 years.... that's enough time for many of the mission statements and goals to have mingled and made attempts. We ought to see existential transforming into substantive in another 5 years, give or take. Interesting to think Jeff Bezos might be interested in the work coming out of the Bush Center. Probably nothing.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby lakewoodhobo » 21 Apr 2018 11:57

The unspoken factor in Amazon’s search for a new home: Jeff Bezos’s support for gay rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

When Amazon executives recently toured the Dallas-Fort Worth area, one of 20 finalists for a second company headquarters, local officials touted its growing workforce and low taxes as perfectly suited to accommodate 50,000 planned Amazon jobs.

But the local team also brought an unexpected guest: the Rev. Neil G. Cazares-Thomas, pastor of a predominantly gay megachurch in Dallas. He impressed upon the Amazon representatives how inclusive and welcoming the community has been to him, his husband and the 4,000 congregants at his church, according to people familiar with the meeting.

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NdoorTX
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby NdoorTX » 21 Apr 2018 12:37

^ Smart ^

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby ContriveDallasite » 23 Apr 2018 02:42

lakewoodhobo wrote:The unspoken factor in Amazon’s search for a new home: Jeff Bezos’s support for gay rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

When Amazon executives recently toured the Dallas-Fort Worth area, one of 20 finalists for a second company headquarters, local officials touted its growing workforce and low taxes as perfectly suited to accommodate 50,000 planned Amazon jobs.

But the local team also brought an unexpected guest: the Rev. Neil G. Cazares-Thomas, pastor of a predominantly gay megachurch in Dallas. He impressed upon the Amazon representatives how inclusive and welcoming the community has been to him, his husband and the 4,000 congregants at his church, according to people familiar with the meeting.


Anyone else think this is starting to get a little ridiculous?

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texasstar
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby texasstar » 23 Apr 2018 08:12

^ It's been ridiculous from the get-go.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 23 Apr 2018 08:55

It's only ridiculous because we keep getting small tidbits here and there from the press and Amazon is drawing out their selection process. Amazon stays on the front page of the Dallas Morning News weekly because of it so I don't think they are unhappy with the PR of the whole thing.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 23 Apr 2018 09:26

ContriveDallasite wrote:Anyone else think this is starting to get a little ridiculous?


Absolutely. Amazon has already made up their mind, so this is all just a waste of time.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tnexster » 28 Apr 2018 15:17

This week in Amazon-o-mania: D.C. calls dibs on Bezos and HQ2

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ama ... -bezos-hq2

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 30 Apr 2018 12:32

Basically, the article claiming it's going to DC reads like every article being written by all the cities who feel they have a good chance. Again I am not taking anything too far until the press release goes out from Amazon.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 30 Apr 2018 13:59

Who knows what roll Bezos intends within Amazon 2, and maybe he has the giant house close to the second office. It does sound convincing. I still think this will be a Dallas company, and not the alternative Amazon HQ, but the HQ of the spin off company. HQ2 will be the new business.

HQ2 will be the Amazon health company, the Orbit Delivery company and the store-online retail hybrid company. Bezos will fly between Seattle and DC, with a stop in Dallas. The house in DC might be so he can be close to the lobby effort, he's probably transitioning time away from Amazon activities and into the Non-Profit Political Lobby industry, that's why the house in DC. Amazon Dallas will handle the new business, with the specific growth mandate that identifies "domestic" business as North America, addendum expansion in South America.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallaz » 01 May 2018 13:15

Open records request forces Denton to reveal Amazon Air's interest in airport

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ama ... st-airport

Amazon's air cargo company made an initial approach to Denton leaders last fall about locating at the city's municipal airport.

The city's economic development department was compelled Monday to reveal Amazon Air's identity after a citizen won an open records request to force the disclosure. The city had given the inquiry a code name, "Project High Flyer," which the Texas attorney general's office ultimately ruled was not protected information and could be released.

No one at the city has heard from Amazon Air since the initial inquiry, said economic development director Caroline Booth.

Kelly Cheeseman, spokeswoman for Amazon, said the company is always evaluating its operations but declined to comment further.

The company's inquiry into Denton Enterprise Airport came about the same time as Amazon announced in September that it was looking for a place to build its second corporate headquarters, known as HQ2. It isn't clear, however, whether the interest Amazon Air has shown in Denton is part of the region's bid to lure the second headquarters.

Denton participated in the cooperative proposal the region sent to Amazon. Dallas is among the 20 finalists for the prized project that promises to bring 50,000 jobs to the winning city. Amazon's real estate team visited Dallas in mid-February.

Darren Grubb, spokesman for the Dallas Regional Chamber of Commerce, said he couldn't comment on the status of the region's HQ2 bid.

"It's reasonable to expect a growing company like Amazon to be working on multiple projects at the same time," Grubb said. "It may or may not be an indication of any decision related to HQ2."

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby ContriveDallasite » 02 May 2018 02:38

Airport you say?

Sounds like something Hillwood should move on. Not many Developers own airports I would assume. Anyways, this speculation is starting to drain my imagination. A new "Victory Park" sized office campus with 50,000 employees would be an absolute game changer for this city. And would have knock-off effects of improving public transportation in the CBD, possibly finally ignite the Trinity River Project and boost Downtown Dallas to a level of liveliness it hasn't seen since the 1930's...

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tnexster » 04 May 2018 21:36

Dallas economist: Seattle’s proposal to tax Amazon jobs ‘economically illiterate’

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... mazon.html

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby lakewoodhobo » 15 May 2018 11:34

Here’s Arlington’s (Failed) Pitch for Amazon HQ2
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontbuner/20 ... ncentives/

Alrington is out, which makes you wonder if any other cities just found out they are out.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 May 2018 13:25

How can Arlington afford so many subsidies? So sad.

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Mgreen15
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Mgreen15 » 15 May 2018 16:35

Arlington never had a shot at HQ2. There is no mass transit available and traffic around that area is the absolute worst. Plus, why would a bunch of Mariners fans want to work in the old Rangers ballpark?

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 15 May 2018 20:42

Both cities are considered strong contenders. Various algorithms have ranked each one first, and both made the top five in a recent survey of site selection consultants. But the cities’ most public spokesmen seem to be taking opposite approaches to the deal. Adler said Austin’s initial bid did not contain any financial incentives, for example; Rawlings has promised that Dallas will be “aggressive.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/03/15 ... mazon-hq2/

Not too surprising, and probably smart on Austin's part. For a city of their size, they are experience as much growth as they can handle and, with or without Amazon, I'm sure that will continue for some time. They need to get a handle on their rising rent/property value and congestion issues before they start bidding for companies like Amazon.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tnexster » 21 May 2018 21:41

I don't remember seeing this take on the Arlington story....

Why Arlington, Texas Wasn't Able to Compete in an Amazon HQ2 World

http://product.costar.com/home/news/shared/191103

Cities such as Allen, McKinney and Frisco also suffer from a lack of rail service to their development sites, and could all follow suit behind Arlington and bow out of the running prior to Amazon making its final decision. But some other development sites under consideration for Amazon's HQ2 campus could still work.

"Dallas is still in the hunt with two downtown Dallas sites, including the Hillwood site in Victory Park and Ray Hunt's site at Reunion, with DART rail access and will culturally fit with what Amazon is searching for," she added.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby The_Overdog » 22 May 2018 10:20

The good take-away from that article is that Arlington is trying to create a central business district surrounding the ballparks, which should I think they need more concrete zoning plans and maybe a transportation plan and could lure many smaller companies.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 22 May 2018 10:25

The_Overdog wrote:The good take-away from that article is that Arlington is trying to create a central business district surrounding the ballparks, which should I think they need more concrete zoning plans and maybe a transportation plan and could lure many smaller companies.


Arlington has a decent amount going for it. It's well situated in between Downtown Dallas and Downtown Fort Worth, isn't terribly far from the airport, and, most importantly, they have UTA, which could potentially bring in many young professionals each year.

They have a long way to go, but had they focused on the above strengths a while ago, rather than wasting time with sports stadiums, they'd be in pretty good shape right now.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 22 May 2018 11:30

The_Overdog

The good take-away from that article is that Arlington is trying to create a central business district surrounding the ballparks, which should I think they need more concrete zoning plans and maybe a transportation plan and could lure many smaller companies.


Cannot believe I never really considered this POV, Thanks!!!

Too bad Jerry Jones planted his star in Frisco rather than Arlington.

How great would it be to have UTA on one side of the Arlington CBD and the Stadiums on the other!?!? The university could easily supercharge the start ups, incubators, university-business cooperatives and the relationship would help the UTA evolve.

Highway 180 is an ideal "live-learn-work-play" transportation corridor for complete-street upgrading with rail connections to Dallas and Fort Worth; transportation mirror I-30 continues as the peak commute and event corridor for the super-majority of trips.

Really, though, the notion that UTA could become a major influence and anchor building office space in Arlington is exciting and encouraging. Residential gentrification in West Dallas would get a substantial bump from this deal, so would Fort Worth. How about that!

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tnexster » 22 May 2018 21:24

I suppose anything is possible but I don't see Arlington getting close to this kind of development anytime soon. That "no transit" thing is going to hurt them badly when stacked up against other options and they are too far out of the wedge.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 22 May 2018 23:17

Tnexster wrote:That "no transit" thing is going to hurt them badly when stacked up against other options and they are too far out of the wedge.


Since DART was created 93% of the population growth in the DFW metro area has been outside of the DART service area.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 23 May 2018 09:04

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
Tnexster wrote:That "no transit" thing is going to hurt them badly when stacked up against other options and they are too far out of the wedge.


Since DART was created 93% of the population growth in the DFW metro area has been outside of the DART service area.


Yeah, you bring out that nugget every time you want to shock and awe people. That information alone is meaningless without further context. Comparing the more developed inner cities in the DART service area to areas of DFW that were farmland is not a 1 to 1 comparison as far as population growth and to imply that DART is a failer because growth outside of its service area happened is a losing game in almost any scenario in many metropolitan regions. Particularly when we are in a sunbelt city.

I am not saying DART is an angel I think they have serious problems in management and vision but to point at 93% as proof of what? Complete and utter failure so we should shut them down cause I could also suggest the same with the highway built a model. Maybe its that transit isn't a golden pill that solves all transit problems easily and when a sunbelt city that came about after 1950's suburban model was established that our modern transit solutions will take evolution. We aren't New York or Boston is right but DART isn't designed around the same models that make their transit work for those cities good and bad.

DART in effect is a long-term experiment to see how to evolve and modify our transit perceptions and ideas to the city we have, love and choose to live in. I could argue Arlington is choosing to experiment quite rogue-ly on its own by ignoring all mass transit solutions and that's their choice even if I think its the wrong one. I moved out of Arlington as quickly as I could and that was my choice. I will say the that Arlington follows Fort Worth more than Dallas and that has long been the culture of citizens there. Its similar to the Houston vs Dallas culture we have here because many people who go to Arlington city hall to voice their opinions hate Dallas but love Fort Worth yet Fort Worth has a healthy biking culture long before Dallas had bikes lanes and has a sizable transit agency.

To say that 93% population growth outside the DART service is just a nugget and without an immense understanding of the bigger picture and the details associated with each half of that equation, we would be missing the point entirely.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 23 May 2018 09:38

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
Tnexster wrote:That "no transit" thing is going to hurt them badly when stacked up against other options and they are too far out of the wedge.


Since DART was created 93% of the population growth in the DFW metro area has been outside of the DART service area.


DART doesn't even serve the entire metropolitan area...

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mcrdal15
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby mcrdal15 » 23 May 2018 15:43

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:
Tnexster wrote:That "no transit" thing is going to hurt them badly when stacked up against other options and they are too far out of the wedge.


Since DART was created 93% of the population growth in the DFW metro area has been outside of the DART service area.


DART doesn't even serve the entire metropolitan area...


That 93% was due to endless highway expansion by city/regional/state planners, not some magical "free market" choice between cars & trains. The population growth didn't occur out of thin air.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 23 May 2018 18:36

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:DART doesn't even serve the entire metropolitan area...
Exactly. And the vast majority of the folks voted with their feet to locate outside of the area it did serve -- because DART is a net negative.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 23 May 2018 18:39

mcrdal15 wrote:That 93% was due to endless highway expansion by city/regional/state planners, not some magical "free market" choice between cars & trains. The population growth didn't occur out of thin air.


LOL. Yeah, everybody moved to the suburbs because of some giant government conspiracy. Ok.....

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Waldozer
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Waldozer » 23 May 2018 20:16

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
mcrdal15 wrote:That 93% was due to endless highway expansion by city/regional/state planners, not some magical "free market" choice between cars & trains. The population growth didn't occur out of thin air.


LOL. Yeah, everybody moved to the suburbs because of some giant government conspiracy. Ok.....


Haven’t you seen Cars?

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/14/8605917/h ... es-history

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mcrdal15
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby mcrdal15 » 23 May 2018 20:29

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
mcrdal15 wrote:That 93% was due to endless highway expansion by city/regional/state planners, not some magical "free market" choice between cars & trains. The population growth didn't occur out of thin air.


LOL. Yeah, everybody moved to the suburbs because of some giant government conspiracy. Ok.....


And those suburbs weren't created out of thin air either. The government did actually play a major role in suburban expansion during the post-WWII years. It's not a conspiracy either...

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 May 2018 08:35

Just red lining aka White flight was a government-created mortgage based segregation of people post WW2 suburbs. It happened its discussed in every city planning class and textbook in the country just like slavery in the American colonies.

The point being Hannibal's entire argument is based on the idea that people live in burbs outside of the DART service area because of DART. I am sure this is where he will correct me about his position but the 93% is a pointless piece of information he likes to shovel out there when he wants to stir things up. It means nothing without a huge amount of context and does not point to anything other than we are a growing region with steady growth and the inner burbs and Dallas have growth challenges just as the outer burbs have in managing greenfield growth.


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