Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

User avatar
dallaz
Posts: 85
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 14:50

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallaz » 07 Mar 2018 09:13

eburress wrote:


Awesome reporting, DMN. My "source," Amazon, already stated as much in their initial HQ2 requirements.
Haha...my thoughts exactly. :lol:

I don’t know why this comes as a surprise...

lakewoodhobo
Posts: 394
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 13:49
Location: Elmwood, Oak Cliff

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby lakewoodhobo » 07 Mar 2018 09:48

eburress wrote:


Awesome reporting, DMN. My "source," Amazon, already stated as much in their initial HQ2 requirements.


So true. I suppose this is only news to Fort Worth and Frisco.

From what I saw on NBC5 last night, they were saying Amazon toured the Smart District site behind City Hall.

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 07 Mar 2018 10:02

lakewoodhobo wrote:From what I saw on NBC5 last night, they were saying Amazon toured the Smart District site behind City Hall.


On a moderately related note, one of my good friends and business partners also so happens to be Google's head of real estate. He's been making frequent trips to Dallas for "meetings" over the last few months. He was familiar with the Smart District, having also recently taken their tour.

(posting this here because there's no "Could Dallas land Google HQ2" thread) :D

User avatar
Brettoj
Posts: 30
Joined: 24 Oct 2016 17:26

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Brettoj » 07 Mar 2018 10:55

eburress wrote:
lakewoodhobo wrote:From what I saw on NBC5 last night, they were saying Amazon toured the Smart District site behind City Hall.


On a moderately related note, one of my good friends and business partners also so happens to be Google's head of real estate. He's been making frequent trips to Dallas for "meetings" over the last few months. He was familiar with the Smart District, having also recently taken their tour.

(posting this here because there's no "Could Dallas land Google HQ2" thread) :D


Interesting. This search has been under the radar. I just remember seeing one news story out of Chicago.
I am sure we could happily handle both Google and Amazon.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 295
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 07 Mar 2018 11:29

eburress wrote:


Awesome reporting, DMN. My "source," Amazon, already stated as much in their initial HQ2 requirements.


Where in the RFP did they state that they required (or even preferred) a downtown site, or that they were "probably headed" to a downtown site? (If a downtown site is one of their requirements, it seems very odd they would include the Maryland and Virginia suburbs of DC as two of their 20 finalists.)

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 07 Mar 2018 11:39

Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:


Awesome reporting, DMN. My "source," Amazon, already stated as much in their initial HQ2 requirements.


Where in the RFP did they state that they required (or even preferred) a downtown site, or that they were "probably headed" to a downtown site? (If a downtown site is one of their requirements, it seems very odd they would include the Maryland and Virginia suburbs of DC as two of their 20 finalists.)


It was one of their base requirements, locating in a center city, urban location. There were a number of cities on Amazon's short list that don't meet all their stated requirements (Austin, the suburban DC sites, etc), which could say something about the chances of some of the short listed cities.

User avatar
Jbarn
Posts: 32
Joined: 05 Nov 2016 18:58

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Jbarn » 07 Mar 2018 11:54

I don’t know who we think we are kidding. We have no chance with this. Dan Patrick easily won his primary, and will probably trounce the Democrat in November. The bathroom bill will be returning next year and will probably pass this time as they are stacking up the Texas legislature with ultra-conservatives. I expect we will probably see even more anti- gay, woman, immigrant, minority bills this time. Amazon will not even consider a place that treats the majority of its population this way.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 295
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 07 Mar 2018 12:16

eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
Awesome reporting, DMN. My "source," Amazon, already stated as much in their initial HQ2 requirements.


Where in the RFP did they state that they required (or even preferred) a downtown site, or that they were "probably headed" to a downtown site? (If a downtown site is one of their requirements, it seems very odd they would include the Maryland and Virginia suburbs of DC as two of their 20 finalists.)


It was one of their base requirements, locating in a center city, urban location.


No. It was not. Nothing of the sort appears in the RFP.

User avatar
Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 778
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 07 Mar 2018 12:22

It's going to DC... TX & GA political climates are going to be a deterrent for HQ2.

User avatar
Brettoj
Posts: 30
Joined: 24 Oct 2016 17:26

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Brettoj » 07 Mar 2018 12:27

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:It's going to DC... TX & GA political climates are going to be a deterrent for HQ2.


It would say that is putting to much in the political basket. I would think they want a friendly business climate, which you get here. Last I checked the point of a public company was to return value to shareholders not to advocate either way on social issues.

Many moving parts. Time will tell.

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 509
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Las Colinas

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 07 Mar 2018 12:46

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:It's going to DC... TX & GA political climates are going to be a deterrent for HQ2.


Many would argue that 'DC' political climate is a deterrent...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 07 Mar 2018 13:19

Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Where in the RFP did they state that they required (or even preferred) a downtown site, or that they were "probably headed" to a downtown site? (If a downtown site is one of their requirements, it seems very odd they would include the Maryland and Virginia suburbs of DC as two of their 20 finalists.)


It was one of their base requirements, locating in a center city, urban location.


No. It was not. Nothing of the sort appears in the RFP.


It was listed as a requirement on the HQ2 website, along with their requirements about international airport, being adjacent to transit, etc.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 295
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 07 Mar 2018 13:26

eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
It was one of their base requirements, locating in a center city, urban location.


No. It was not. Nothing of the sort appears in the RFP.


It was listed as a requirement on the HQ2 website, along with their requirements about international airport, being adjacent to transit, etc.


Link? Quote? Anything? It seems unlikely they would have requirements listed on their website that are contrary to what is in the actual RFP.

lakewoodhobo
Posts: 394
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 13:49
Location: Elmwood, Oak Cliff

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby lakewoodhobo » 07 Mar 2018 13:34

Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:Link? Quote? Anything? It seems unlikely they would have requirements listed on their website that are contrary to what is in the actual RFP.


You are correct, the RFP says the following:

"HQ2 could be, but does not have to be:
-An urban or downtown campus
-A similar layout to Amazon’s Seattle campus
-A development-prepped site. We want to encourage states/provinces and communities to think
creatively for viable real estate options, while not negatively affecting our preferred timeline"

That still hints at a preference for an urban or downtown campus, however, and on-site transit (a stated requirement) is more likely inside an urban core.

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 509
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Las Colinas

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 07 Mar 2018 13:40

RFP can be found here...
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

Some notes from the RFP...
In choosing the location for HQ2, Amazon has a preference for:
 Metropolitan areas with more than one million people
 A stable and business-friendly environment
 Urban or suburban locations with the potential to attract and retain strong technical talent
 Communities that think big and creatively when considering locations and real estate options
HQ2 could be, but does not have to be:
 An urban or downtown campus
 A similar layout to Amazon’s Seattle campus
 A development-prepped site. We want to encourage states/provinces and communities to think
creatively for viable real estate options, while not negatively affecting our preferred timeline


Core Preferences Quantity Units Description
Site Requirements
Proximity to population center 30 Miles
Proximity to International
airport Within approx. 45 Minutes
Proximity to major highways
and arterial roads Not more than 1-2 Miles
Close to major arterial
roads to provide optimal
access
Access to mass transit At site
Direct access to rail,
train, subway/metro,
bus routes

Building Requirements
Initial Square Foot Requirement 500,000+ Sq. Ft. Phase I (2019)
Total Square Foot
Requirement Up to 8,000,000 Sq. Ft. Beyond 2027


There is much, much more detail in the RFP. Many of the statements seem to suggest a more urban setting (diversity, transit, amenties, quality of life, reference to current downtown location, etc), but I wouldn't say it's specifically listed as a requirement. At least not from what I can tell.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 07 Mar 2018 13:48

Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
No. It was not. Nothing of the sort appears in the RFP.


It was listed as a requirement on the HQ2 website, along with their requirements about international airport, being adjacent to transit, etc.


Link? Quote? Anything? It seems unlikely they would have requirements listed on their website that are contrary to what is in the actual RFP.


Relax dude. They took down the website once HQ2 fever took hold, but yes, it was clearly stated there.

User avatar
Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 778
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 07 Mar 2018 14:18

eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
It was listed as a requirement on the HQ2 website, along with their requirements about international airport, being adjacent to transit, etc.


Link? Quote? Anything? It seems unlikely they would have requirements listed on their website that are contrary to what is in the actual RFP.


Relax dude. They took down the website once HQ2 fever took hold, but yes, it was clearly stated there.



The internet saves everything.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... 2-RFP.html


The RFP states... That both Urban and Suburban are ok... (See page 1 & 2)..


BUT...

The site requirements are the following:
Access to transit at site..(Buses, train, subway etc .)

The document also states that infrastructure must be completed accorrding to THEIR project timeline(s). And that the project will begin by 2019..


This would virtually eliminates most suburban locations in DFW...

So the preference towards Downtown makes sense.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 295
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 07 Mar 2018 14:33

eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
It was listed as a requirement on the HQ2 website, along with their requirements about international airport, being adjacent to transit, etc.


Link? Quote? Anything? It seems unlikely they would have requirements listed on their website that are contrary to what is in the actual RFP.


Relax dude. They took down the website once HQ2 fever took hold, but yes, it was clearly stated there.


It looks like you're misremembering. The website is still up, and it was frequently archived. It appears to have never said what you claim. And as I said earlier, it seems very unlikely they would say something on their website that is contrary to the information in the actual RFP.

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 07 Mar 2018 15:12

Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Link? Quote? Anything? It seems unlikely they would have requirements listed on their website that are contrary to what is in the actual RFP.


Relax dude. They took down the website once HQ2 fever took hold, but yes, it was clearly stated there.


It looks like you're misremembering. The website is still up, and it was frequently archived. It appears to have never said what you claim. And as I said earlier, it seems very unlikely they would say something on their website that is contrary to the information in the actual RFP.


The "site" I was speaking of used to be amazon.com/hq2, which as far as I can tell, isn't still up. Are you referring to https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=17044620011, because if so, that's not what I'm talking about.

User avatar
WilCo
Posts: 65
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 19:34

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby WilCo » 07 Mar 2018 15:27

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Link? Quote? Anything? It seems unlikely they would have requirements listed on their website that are contrary to what is in the actual RFP.


Relax dude. They took down the website once HQ2 fever took hold, but yes, it was clearly stated there.



The internet saves everything.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... 2-RFP.html


The RFP states... That both Urban and Suburban are ok... (See page 1 & 2)..


BUT...

The site requirements are the following:
Access to transit at site..(Buses, train, subway etc .)

The document also states that infrastructure must be completed accorrding to THEIR project timeline(s). And that the project will begin by 2019..


This would virtually eliminates most suburban locations in DFW...

So the preference towards Downtown makes sense.


Except Las Colinas, which I heard was in the running at one point but a long shot.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 295
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 07 Mar 2018 15:34

eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
Relax dude. They took down the website once HQ2 fever took hold, but yes, it was clearly stated there.


It looks like you're misremembering. The website is still up, and it was frequently archived. It appears to have never said what you claim. And as I said earlier, it seems very unlikely they would say something on their website that is contrary to the information in the actual RFP.


The "site" I was speaking of used to be amazon.com/hq2, which as far as I can tell, isn't still up. Are you referring to https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=17044620011, because if so, that's not what I'm talking about.


Ahh, yes the mysterious website that no longer exists contained information contrary to everything published elsewhere by Amazon. That seems likely... Still looks like you're misremembering. ;)

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 07 Mar 2018 17:10

Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:
It looks like you're misremembering. The website is still up, and it was frequently archived. It appears to have never said what you claim. And as I said earlier, it seems very unlikely they would say something on their website that is contrary to the information in the actual RFP.


The "site" I was speaking of used to be amazon.com/hq2, which as far as I can tell, isn't still up. Are you referring to https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=17044620011, because if so, that's not what I'm talking about.


Ahh, yes the mysterious website that no longer exists contained information contrary to everything published elsewhere by Amazon. That seems likely... Still looks like you're misremembering. ;)


Surely I'm not the only person who visited Amazon's original HQ2 site. I'll let others chime in...

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 750
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 08 Mar 2018 09:06

What are we trying to prove at this point? The RFP clearly shows a preference for an urban campus but they are open to new creative ideas blah blah. The simple fact that they say it could be a downtown campus but doesn't have to be shows their preference for an urban site with an open mind to a site that shows promise that is outside of their expected qualifying sites. Show us how we are wrong kinda thing. As stated above their requirements of transportation options are urban in nature but Las Colinas is many ways could qualify as well. I am confused why this is such an issue.

HQ2 could be, but does not have to be:
 An urban or downtown campus
 A similar layout to Amazon’s Seattle campus

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 08 Mar 2018 09:37

cowboyeagle05 wrote:What are we trying to prove at this point? The RFP clearly shows a preference for an urban campus but they are open to new creative ideas blah blah. The simple fact that they say it could be a downtown campus but doesn't have to be shows their preference for an urban site with an open mind to a site that shows promise that is outside of their expected qualifying sites. Show us how we are wrong kinda thing. As stated above their requirements of transportation options are urban in nature but Las Colinas is many ways could qualify as well. I am confused why this is such an issue.

HQ2 could be, but does not have to be:
 An urban or downtown campus
 A similar layout to Amazon’s Seattle campus


Sure, Amazon has obviously tweaked their language in the RFP, potentially opening up a broader set of options for themselves than what was originally stated on their HQ2 site. And as Tivo_Kenevil points out, there are a number of preferences/requirements stated in the RFP which could still suggest at least an inclination for a Downtown/center city locale, which has been a consistent theme.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 750
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 08 Mar 2018 09:45

eburress wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:What are we trying to prove at this point? The RFP clearly shows a preference for an urban campus but they are open to new creative ideas blah blah. The simple fact that they say it could be a downtown campus but doesn't have to be shows their preference for an urban site with an open mind to a site that shows promise that is outside of their expected qualifying sites. Show us how we are wrong kinda thing. As stated above their requirements of transportation options are urban in nature but Las Colinas is many ways could qualify as well. I am confused why this is such an issue.

HQ2 could be, but does not have to be:
 An urban or downtown campus
 A similar layout to Amazon’s Seattle campus


Sure, Amazon has obviously tweaked their language in the RFP, potentially opening up a broader set of options for themselves than what was originally stated on their HQ2 site. And as Tivo_Kenevil points out, there are a number of preferences/requirements stated in the RFP which could still suggest at least an inclination for a Downtown/center city locale, which has been a consistent theme.


I wholeheartedly agree and if someone wants to fight over whether language tweaks happened or not is wasting time. I think what matters at now is looking at the current RFP which clearly shows an inclination towards urban sites with room for creative proposals that are otherwise outside of those expectations.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 295
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 08 Mar 2018 12:58

One might be able to infer a preference for an urban setting from some of the RFP language, but that is quite different from what was stated above, to-wit: that a downtown location was one of their stated requirements. That is simply not true.

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 08 Mar 2018 13:20

Tucy wrote:One might be able to infer a preference for an urban setting from some of the RFP language, but that is quite different from what was stated above, to-wit: that a downtown location was one of their stated requirements. That is simply not true.


If you didn't see Amazon's original HQ2 site, how are you in any position to speak to whether it's true, false, or otherwise? You're obviously having a hard time distinguishing between the notions of IS and WAS but regardless, we can take it offline if need be since this pissing match has little relevance at this point.

User avatar
DFW
Posts: 3
Joined: 22 Dec 2016 13:00

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DFW » 08 Mar 2018 14:02


User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 295
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 08 Mar 2018 16:05

eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:One might be able to infer a preference for an urban setting from some of the RFP language, but that is quite different from what was stated above, to-wit: that a downtown location was one of their stated requirements. That is simply not true.


If you didn't see Amazon's original HQ2 site, how are you in any position to speak to whether it's true, false, or otherwise? You're obviously having a hard time distinguishing between the notions of IS and WAS but regardless, we can take it offline if need be since this pissing match has little relevance at this point.


Because even IF there once existed an Amazon.com/HQ2 site, and even if that site once said something that made you think they wanted a downtown location, it is irrelevant because no such requirement made it into the RFP. The RFP sets forth Amazon's desires and requirements. They didn't tweak the RFP (as some suggested above).

The RFP has not changed. The RFP does not include and has never included a downtown site requirement. That is why I can say with complete confidence that it is not true that a downtown site was or is one of Amazon's requirements.

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 08 Mar 2018 17:10

Tucy wrote:
eburress wrote:
Tucy wrote:One might be able to infer a preference for an urban setting from some of the RFP language, but that is quite different from what was stated above, to-wit: that a downtown location was one of their stated requirements. That is simply not true.


If you didn't see Amazon's original HQ2 site, how are you in any position to speak to whether it's true, false, or otherwise? You're obviously having a hard time distinguishing between the notions of IS and WAS but regardless, we can take it offline if need be since this pissing match has little relevance at this point.


Because even IF there once existed an Amazon.com/HQ2 site, and even if that site once said something that made you think they wanted a downtown location, it is irrelevant because no such requirement made it into the RFP. The RFP sets forth Amazon's desires and requirements. They didn't tweak the RFP (as some suggested above).

The RFP has not changed. The RFP does not include and has never included a downtown site requirement. That is why I can say with complete confidence that it is not true that a downtown site was or is one of Amazon's requirements.


Good lord, I'm not sure who hurt you, but I'm not saying the RFP was changed. Let it go.

DPatel304
Posts: 693
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 08 Mar 2018 20:12

Economists: Why DFW doesn't deserve Amazon's HQ2
"The market is carrying some baggage," he added. "We have seen rapid price appreciation in the last few years that has taken the market to record highs compared with the rest of the country."

For single-family homes, North Texas also doesn't have the inventory on the ground and ready to go for a massive influx of Amazon employees, he said. That could further shoot up home prices even further.

"Dallas couldn't sustain an Amazon HQ2 campus," he said. "The market is already adding jobs and doesn't need it as bad as other places."

Aaron Terrazas, a senior economist with Seattle-based Zillow Group Inc., said he's concerned about DFW's ability to fulfill the labor force needs of Amazon's HQ2 campus, which could bring ultimately 50,000 new jobs to a North American city upon full build out.

"I think people would be unwilling to relocate there."

Dallas-Fort Worth is seen as a central location in the country with easy access to the East and West coasts, but Dallas ranked at No. 4 on the informal survey behind the two winning markets, as well as Austin (at No. 2) and Denver (No. 3), based on the other markets' relatively deep pool of tech talent and the potential time zone advantages of being on the East Coast.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... e=multiple

I thought I'd share this amusing article. A couple of economists have chimed in as to why they think DFW would be unfit for HQ2 for the following reasons:
1. Rising home prices are a problem here
2. Dallas doesn't need the jobs as badly as other cities
3. People would be unwilling to relocate here, meaning we wouldn't be able to fill the 50,000 jobs

Good stuff :D

User avatar
Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 778
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 08 Mar 2018 20:44

How is reason 2 a factor? Same could be said for DC & NYC. Not to mention point number 1.

As for point 3, isn't like DFW number #1 I'm brain gain?

DPatel304
Posts: 693
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 08 Mar 2018 21:06

Yeah, the article just reads like a desperate attempt to discredit DFW. The article quotes economists, but two of their three points aren't even economy related. Reason two is saying we already have too many jobs, which is actually a positive and not a negative. Reason three is based on a survey which doesn't mean a whole lot.

User avatar
tanzoak
Posts: 416
Joined: 18 Dec 2016 19:15

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 08 Mar 2018 21:15

The ability to fulfill the labor force needs is a legitimate concern. Rising home prices could theoretically be a concern, but they're still very low compared to the coasts and the metro has demonstrated the willingness and ability to build housing in response to high demand.

User avatar
tanzoak
Posts: 416
Joined: 18 Dec 2016 19:15

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 08 Mar 2018 21:22

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:As for point 3, isn't like DFW number #1 I'm brain gain?


While it's a good thing for the metro that we're bringing in even more than we produce, it's a negative factor for HQ2. It means that local demand *already* outstrips supply, never mind after adding your x number of additional positions to fill. It means you're going to have to import a much higher percentage of your workforce than you would in a place with a large number of grads in excess of local demand.

Think about it this way.. if half the universities in Boston immediately shut down, that would put them in brain gain territory rather than the massive brain “drain” they have now. That wouldn’t make Boston more attractive. Similarly, if the UT flagship university wormholes from Austin to Dallas, that would reduce our brain gain numbers, but would be better for us and make us more attractive.

What #1 brain gain really says is that the metro is doing quite well despite inadequate levels of higher education. It’s a mixed bag, not an unambiguous positive.

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 509
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Las Colinas

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 09 Mar 2018 08:55

#3 is laughably silly... People have been relocating here in droves, but are somehow unwilling to relocate here...? huh?

If number 1 and 2 were serious factors, Detroit would be the hands down favoite. As was mentioned by someone else... The other 'favorite candidates' are worse off than we are on these things.

... back to my regularly scheduled programming.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

DPatel304
Posts: 693
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 09 Mar 2018 09:10

muncien wrote:#3 is laughably silly... People have been relocating here in droves, but are somehow unwilling to relocate here...? huh?


..because a survey said so :roll:

Even if I were to take the survey (which I don't), you have to keep in mind that a city like Dallas is rapidly changing and will change even more with the arrival of Amazon. Assuming they come to Downtown Dallas, then that automatically adds a lot more people on the streets which, I'd imagine, brings more things to do.

The same goes for Austin and Denver as well, which were ranked higher on the survey. I'm not as familiar with Denver, but, as far as Austin goes, I feel like Amazon moving there (at this time) would make the city less desirable. Of all the cities in Texas, they seem to have the worst congestion issues, the highest cost of living, and the least amount of infrastructure to absorb a company like Amazon. If Amazon were to move there, it would only exacerbate those problems.

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 263
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 09 Mar 2018 12:38

DPatel304 wrote:Assuming they come to Downtown Dallas, then that automatically adds a lot more people on the streets which, I'd imagine, brings more things to do.


Imagine how much new construction would occur Downtown if this is what happened (Amazon setting up shop there). From an article about Amazon's impact on Seattle:

"development...over the last decade has turned a sea of parking lots, warehouses, and motels into gleaming skyscrapers, luxury rental towers, tech offices, and restaurants."

We do have a lot of parking lots ready to go... :)

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-i ... cts-2018-1

User avatar
Cord1936
Posts: 139
Joined: 02 Apr 2017 20:43
Location: Henderson @ Belmont

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 15 Mar 2018 09:13

There are obviously two camps among us on this subject: those who think Dallas doesn't measure up and those who think the glass is more full rather than empty. It is a major criteria for Amazon in their selection and it will just be interesting to see how the cards play out on this one.

Of great interest in the article, the Dallas region is now the 4th largest concentration of tech workers in the nation ... just last year the Dallas region was ranked 5th largest. This clearly shows the Dallas area has the ability to grow its tech sector fairly briskly and an HQ2 selection would see tech people moving here in droves.

I do not subscribe to the idea that Dallas is not a preferred relocation city in the nation ... being number one in population growth, number one in job growth, number one in housing growth, etc., etc. belies such thinking. Again, this is a subject with divergent views.

HQ2: Tech talent to determine if Dallas sinks, swims in Amazon applicant pool
By Bill Hethcock, Dallas Business Journal, 03-14-18

A large and elite tech workforce appears to be the top consideration for Amazon.com Inc. in its search for a home for its massive second headquarters, according to recent reports.
...
That could be good news or bad for Dallas-Fort Worth, which remains one of 20 metro areas still in the running for the highly-coveted mega project.

On one hand, Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings and Amazon-chasing organizations like the Dallas Regional Chamber have plugged North Texas’ high concentration of tech workers and its roots as the home of industry-changing technology companies such as Texas Instruments and AT&T.

"We’re a region built on technology," Rawlings said when DFW was selected as a finalist, "From the birthplace of Texas Instruments to now having the highest concentration of tech workers in the state.”

In addition, the Wall Street Journal named Dallas-Fort Worth as the overall best fit for Amazon’s HQ2, and the publication cited DFW’s large tech labor force as a top reason for its choice.
...
Forty percent of all tech workers in Texas are in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and the metro is the fourth-largest tech market in the country in terms of workers, behind San Francisco, San Jose and New York City, according to Dale Petroskey, president and CEO of the Dallas Regional Chamber.
...
DFW has 209,600 tech sector jobs, according to CompTIA. That soundly beats out Austin, the only other Texas city still in contention, which has 113,200.

Breaking it down further into software and web developer positions, DFW has 39,183, and Austin has 20,389 positions of those types.
...
For perspective, the Seattle area, where Amazon is based now, has 178,800 tech workers. Some 63,037 are software and web developers, and many of them work for Amazon already.
...
Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2018/03/14/hq2-tech-talent-to-determine-if-dallas-sinks-swims.html

User avatar
whit5125
Posts: 10
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 09:54

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby whit5125 » 15 Mar 2018 14:58

Here is something to consider..

Do we think Dallas having a high speed rail to Houston and potentially Ft. worth, Austin and San Antonio with the planned station right next to downtown is a major advantage or factor that Amazon is taking into consideration?

Or is it such a unique thing to America that companies don't know how to utilize it or model it into accounting for regional transport among other advantages?

User avatar
Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 778
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 Mar 2018 17:04

^ I don't see how that would that even be a factor. Their employee's aren't going to travel Houston everyday.

Tnexster
Posts: 955
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 16:33
Location: Dallas

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tnexster » 15 Mar 2018 21:52

whit5125 wrote:Here is something to consider..

Do we think Dallas having a high speed rail to Houston and potentially Ft. worth, Austin and San Antonio with the planned station right next to downtown is a major advantage or factor that Amazon is taking into consideration?

Or is it such a unique thing to America that companies don't know how to utilize it or model it into accounting for regional transport among other advantages?


I saw a presentation recently on the plans for Hyperloop in Texas, the subject of Amazon came up and if the plans for the massive Hyperloop were a contributing factor. The answer was yes, primarily because of the ability of such a rapid and inexpensive transportation option would link 6 cities in one state. The trip between Austin and Dallas would be 19 minutes at a cost of $50 which makes the prospect of supercommuters much more realistic. Texas is also the easiest and cost effective location to build such a contraption because it is flat and connects several large metro areas basically making 6 independent regions one. Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, San Antonio and Laredo are all under consideration. Laredo is primarily being considered for freight purposes while the rest of the cities are close enough together that linking all of them together with a rapid and cheap means to move people between them makes a company like Amazon look at a location in Dallas more likely because of the access it would have to all of the population centers in Texas. The only direct link not being considered it the Dallas-Houston link because the rail is so far along. However, the Hyperloop would still be an option as one could route through Austin to get to Dallas. That does not mean a stop in Austin as all Hyperloop trips are non-stop.

User avatar
tanzoak
Posts: 416
Joined: 18 Dec 2016 19:15

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 15 Mar 2018 23:59

Well of course the people pitching hyperloop said Amazon cared about hyperloop. That doesn't mean it's true. Sorry, but companies don't make headquarters location decisions based on the potential for a transportation project that one day may come to fruition but as of now is not even reached the point that you might call it in a preliminary state and has not been built anywhere in the country.

As for HSR, why does Amazon care much about Dallas-Houston travel? Sure, being able to get there in 2hr (and nicer environment/easier to work) instead of 3hr is better than not being able to do that. But what's in Houston that makes that particularly relevant? If, on the other hand, we were talking about "Will Exxon relocate to Downtown Dallas?" then yes, HSR would be very important.

Amazon will make its relocation decision the same way that all companies do: labor force and costs, both broadly defined.

User avatar
I45Tex
Posts: 83
Joined: 26 Jan 2017 05:52

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 16 Mar 2018 01:21

Not intending to pile on, here, but even if such passenger pipes were operational and people felt like packing into coffins to just get it over with and be somewhere (I mean, I guess, that is the logical conclusion of what we thrifty passengers have gotten airlines to do), guess what? The radius from central Austin to Laredo (which does take in the whole Metroplex, and past Houston to Beaumont) lassos the homes of 18.1 million people. Same 220-mile radius from Dallas Victory would take in less than 15.2 million people; versus 53.8 in that same radius from this Amazon candidate starter-office-site in the running in Newark http://www.2gateway.com/ or https://www.emporis.com/buildings/12127 ... ark-nj-usa

The “but our terrain is flatter from point to point around here” perspective isn’t going to matter, not when Musk is already boring on a tunnel between Washington and B’more, this year. If ours could all be overground, the Northeast Corridor’s relative cost of pipe laid per likely customer still fares fine. On net might still be lower than Texas’ would be even then. Affluent would-be frequent riders just already live so much closer to the points it would be serving. Here you’d have a major last-[30]-mile problem. If you didn’t build a bunch of feeder lines you’re looking at a fraction of even that 15 million ridership.

User avatar
I45Tex
Posts: 83
Joined: 26 Jan 2017 05:52

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby I45Tex » 16 Mar 2018 01:32

PS: numbers from the population area pane on the very enjoyable and free-as-advertised www.freemaptools.com

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 750
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 16 Mar 2018 08:47

The best way to describe the advantage that Dallas has in having the HSR is that Amazon has said they want easy access to mass transit. Having easy access to Houston and a state that shows continued growth in transit options and solutions is a positive check mark. Houston is a shipping hub in its own right and a company that has a significant logistics arm could see value in quick access to Houston. Amazon says they want a working transit system and the HSR supports an overall mass transit transportation model for the future of the state. It is seen as a progressive solution that shows that the state isn't just a highway state. I also agree with other statements though that it's not built yet nor has it started so Amazon won't be banking on it too much either. They may still see it as some sort of sign of a state progressing in its modernization.

User avatar
NdoorTX
Posts: 70
Joined: 21 Nov 2016 02:27

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby NdoorTX » 16 Mar 2018 15:37

A somewhat long, but interesting article on site selection with a strong focus on the Amazon's HQ2. You can gleam good info of if this article- even if just by scanning it.

https://www.ccim.com/newscenter/commerc ... ?gmSsoPc=1

User avatar
Cord1936
Posts: 139
Joined: 02 Apr 2017 20:43
Location: Henderson @ Belmont

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 23 Mar 2018 23:34

While not directly related to Dallas attracting Amazon's HQ2, it is eye-opening to read this concerning San Francisco!

San Francisco's housing affordability crisis is reaching a critical juncture when it is beginning to affect San Francisco's ability to attract and retain the best tech talent from outside the region ... this is occurring while Dallas' tech community is swelling in size, growing from 5th largest pool of tech workers in 2017 to 4th largest in 2018.

This just highlights the extreme competitiveness that Dallas affords Amazon in its search for a new HQ2!

San Francisco is so expensive that more people are leaving than moving in — and it could mean disaster for the nation's tech capital
Business Insider, by MELIA ROBINSON, Mar 23rd 2018 4:00PM

US census data shows the region that includes San Francisco, Oakland, and Hayward — a city in the East Bay that offers a quicker commute to Silicon Valley — lost more residents than it attracted between 2016 and 2017. And the migration is worsening in the Bay Area's urban core.

The Wall Street Journal reported that in the year ending July 1, census data shows the area had a net loss of almost 24,000 residents who moved into other parts of California or the US.
...
A critical lack of affordable housing and sky-high rent prices have made the San Francisco Bay Area unlivable for many artists, artisans, longtime residents, and even tech entrepreneurs.
...
The Housing Crisis Could Put Silicon Valley at risk

The San Francisco Bay Area, recognized as a global hub of tech finance and innovation, may be at risk of losing top tech workers if they can't afford to live there, even on six-figure salaries.
...
Brian Brennan, senior vice president at the Silicon Valley Leadership Group, told the Wall Street Journal that while the area's high-paying jobs and lifestyle still bring tech workers to the Bay Area, "it is hard to get the best talent outside of this region to come here and stay here."

Article: https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2018/03/23/san-francisco-is-so-expensive-that-more-people-are-leaving-than-moving-in-and-it-could-mean-disaster-for-the-nations-tech-capital/23393939/

User avatar
tanzoak
Posts: 416
Joined: 18 Dec 2016 19:15

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 24 Mar 2018 00:16

Yeah, it's a complete embarrassment that the strongest economy in the country managed a piddling 0.6% annual growth last year and had net negative domestic migration.

We refuse to build housing, so all our economic gains just get funneled into housing prices. Good for 20+ year homeowners, bad for everyone else.

There's a new bill making its way through the legislature that would upzone basically everything within 1/4 mile of 15-minute headway transit to 85 feet and between 1/4 to 1/2 mile to 55 feet and force as-of-right permitting instead of discretionary. That would certainly fix the problem! And Texas wouldn't be getting all those CA relocations anymore.

User avatar
Jasimm
Posts: 152
Joined: 24 Oct 2016 22:47

Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Jasimm » 24 Mar 2018 02:01

Cord1936 wrote:While not directly related to Dallas attracting Amazon's HQ2, it is eye-opening to read this concerning San Francisco!

San Francisco's housing affordability crisis is reaching a critical juncture when it is beginning to affect San Francisco's ability to attract and retain the best tech talent from outside the region ... this is occurring while Dallas' tech community is swelling in size, growing from 5th largest pool of tech workers in 2017 to 4th largest in 2018.

This just highlights the extreme competitiveness that Dallas affords Amazon in its search for a new HQ2!

San Francisco is so expensive that more people are leaving than moving in — and it could mean disaster for the nation's tech capital
Business Insider, by MELIA ROBINSON, Mar 23rd 2018 4:00PM

US census data shows the region that includes San Francisco, Oakland, and Hayward — a city in the East Bay that offers a quicker commute to Silicon Valley — lost more residents than it attracted between 2016 and 2017. And the migration is worsening in the Bay Area's urban core.

The Wall Street Journal reported that in the year ending July 1, census data shows the area had a net loss of almost 24,000 residents who moved into other parts of California or the US.
...
A critical lack of affordable housing and sky-high rent prices have made the San Francisco Bay Area unlivable for many artists, artisans, longtime residents, and even tech entrepreneurs.
...
The Housing Crisis Could Put Silicon Valley at risk

The San Francisco Bay Area, recognized as a global hub of tech finance and innovation, may be at risk of losing top tech workers if they can't afford to live there, even on six-figure salaries.
...
Brian Brennan, senior vice president at the Silicon Valley Leadership Group, told the Wall Street Journal that while the area's high-paying jobs and lifestyle still bring tech workers to the Bay Area, "it is hard to get the best talent outside of this region to come here and stay here."

Article: https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2018/03/23/san-francisco-is-so-expensive-that-more-people-are-leaving-than-moving-in-and-it-could-mean-disaster-for-the-nations-tech-capital/23393939/


So I live in a suburb of San Francisco and there is essential no change noticeable here. Actually most people you talk to are saying how bad traffic is with all the new residents. Yes the housing is expensive, but people are still buying and selling home like nothing has changed. Tech companies are still opening left and right as well as a huge biotech center south of San Francisco that is full of cranes. Interesting article I guess because I just don't see any change here.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], dch526, DFW, flyswatter, SlandersonCooper and 7 guests

Login