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Dallas Mockingbird Station


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ContriveDallasite
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby ContriveDallasite » 20 Jul 2017 13:39

This took way too long. Hopefully it will get DART to make something out of those enormous parking lots.

DPatel304
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby DPatel304 » 20 Jul 2017 13:49

Are there plans for another bridge over 75 at some point? Two bridges seems excessive, but, at the same time the Katy Trail and White Rock lake are hugely popular trails and a strong connection between both seems very worthwhile.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 20 Jul 2017 14:29

DPatel304 wrote:Are there plans for another bridge over 75 at some point? Two bridges seems excessive, but, at the same time the Katy Trail and White Rock lake are hugely popular trails and a strong connection between both seems very worthwhile.


It is already connected at the ground level at the McCommas Bridge over 75. We have to stop trying to solve our traffic problems by building layers upon layers of bridges it's too expensive and it's what got us in the mess we are already in. Yes, separate cars from pedestrians when it comes to sidewalks and road lanes but they have to operate on the same level. The problem in the 70's and 80's was that we thought it was smarter to completely separate pedestrians from our cars so we built underground tunnels and skyway bridges so cars could keep speeding away at 70mph. This caused more deterioration or our urban areas because it made the cars the king in every conceivable way. When in fact it's best that cars have to adapt to the reality that they have to wait on pedestrians, bikes and mass transit just as much as those three have to wait on each other. Car First culture is what got us to the lack of pedestrian accommodation in the first place. It takes time but the more our neighborhoods have to deal with all these forms of transit the safer out communities will be.

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DPatel304
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby DPatel304 » 20 Jul 2017 15:11

I'm familiar with this connection, but I have not taken it myself. Perhaps I need to see it for myself before I judge, but it looks like a pretty horrible connector between two extremely popular recreational trails. The whole appeal of this trail is that it is separate from cars, so having to cross over 75 must make this section very unpleasant for runners/bikers.

I agree with what you're saying, and, in general, we do want to encourage pedestrians, bikers, and cars to coexist, but this is one of the rare exceptions where I disagree with that mindset.

It doesn't have to be bridge. Honestly, if the area immediately to the west of 75 were to improve and cater more to pedestrians and connect to the trail better, I'd be happy with that as well, and that would go in line with what you're saying.

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muncien
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby muncien » 21 Jul 2017 10:12

DPatel304 wrote:I'm familiar with this connection, but I have not taken it myself. Perhaps I need to see it for myself before I judge, but it looks like a pretty horrible connector between two extremely popular recreational trails. The whole appeal of this trail is that it is separate from cars, so having to cross over 75 must make this section very unpleasant for runners/bikers.

I agree with what you're saying, and, in general, we do want to encourage pedestrians, bikers, and cars to coexist, but this is one of the rare exceptions where I disagree with that mindset.

It doesn't have to be bridge. Honestly, if the area immediately to the west of 75 were to improve and cater more to pedestrians and connect to the trail better, I'd be happy with that as well, and that would go in line with what you're saying.


The connection is pretty crappy... I took it just a few weeks ago while letting my son break in his new scooter. For starters, coming from Katy, there are no clear markers and the connection itself quite pathetic. It's the first time I tried it in a very long time and I walked right past it without seeing it. Then, it's simply a wide/barren sidewalk past parking lots leading up to the bridge... which as you can tell has no shade, or protection. There was actually guardrail damage on the bridge corner from a car crashing across the 'trail'. Then, once crossing to the other side (top/right corner of previous photo), someone actually took the time to write out in big chalk letters "THIS TRAIL SUCKS", but with each word spread out so a cyclist could easily read them one at a time (lol). The remainder leading up to Mocking bird will be improved by the new bridge, but everything I mentioned will still be pretty terrible. I happened to be walking at the time which just prolonged the experience. But I suppose if you are riding, you hardly notice it.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Jul 2017 10:54

Those stated problems can be dealt with easily but I strongly disagree with slapping another pricey bridge across even here. Our car culture populace inability to be safe with more than other cars is because we separate them too much. They have to mingle some or no one will ever learn to share the transportation network. Plus how do you expect people to see other forms of transit and grow up with them as legitimate options when you hide them away in some exclusive bike, pedestrian country club. I love the Katy Trail but we can't expect every mile to be an abandoned railway separated from everything like bowling with the bumpers on. It's a nice vacation but unrealistic. Katy Trail advocates can do a lot to focus on improving their connections to the wider system like at the McCommas bridge and not be dependent on trying to build everything in a bubble.

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Dmkflyer
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby Dmkflyer » 21 Jul 2017 14:49

In this case, I think there should be a bridge, but one that is built through philanthropy through the Friends of the Katy Trail or something. After the Mockingbird bridge is complete, this be the missing link to connecting the 2 major trail systems seamlessly.

Then the Katy Trail Connector will be the last piece linking the Trinity Trails via the Katy Trail all the way to White Rock Lake.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Jul 2017 10:13

Have you seen their long term plans that they wanted the city to partially fund? Friends of the Katy Trail want a number of bridges so that no one on the trail has to ever interact with a car intersection again and the 75 connection is not on their list. There is always another trendy white arched bridge on the horizon for these things.

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willyk
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby willyk » 24 Jul 2017 11:58

Dmkflyer wrote: Then the Katy Trail Connector will be the last piece linking the Trinity Trails via the Katy Trail all the way to White Rock Lake.


Actually...right now you can:

-Take the Katy to the south end of VP.
-There you pick up the connector under I-35 to the Continental/Ron Kirk Bridge Park.
-From there, pick up the Trinity Skyline Trail at the West Dallas Gateway.
-Follow the trail up on to the Sylvan Bridge.
-Then noodle your way over to the Trinity Strand.

That's many miles of continuous trail!

http://www.trinityrivercorridor.com/recreation/trinity-skyline-trail

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Alex Rodriguez
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby Alex Rodriguez » 24 Jul 2017 13:56

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Those stated problems can be dealt with easily but I strongly disagree with slapping another pricey bridge across even here. Our car culture populace inability to be safe with more than other cars is because we separate them too much. They have to mingle some or no one will ever learn to share the transportation network. Plus how do you expect people to see other forms of transit and grow up with them as legitimate options when you hide them away in some exclusive bike, pedestrian country club. I love the Katy Trail but we can't expect every mile to be an abandoned railway separated from everything like bowling with the bumpers on. It's a nice vacation but unrealistic. Katy Trail advocates can do a lot to focus on improving their connections to the wider system like at the McCommas bridge and not be dependent on trying to build everything in a bubble.


I completely agree. Trying to build another pricey country club bridge to make the connection between Katy and Trinity Strand has cost that project almost a decade now. It could have been done fairly inexpensively a long time ago. This bridge at Mockingbird has cost this project close to 10 years as well. At McCommas, put in some signage, some lane striping, 50 grand, boom done. Don't spend 10 million to solve a 50 thousand dollar problem.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 24 Jul 2017 14:45

Plus the bridge solution is an attempt to solve the bigger problem with another band-aid. When the real problem is that car dependency design is what made things so hostile they have to build another more expensive bridge to counter the car dependency. If these intersections were looked at as true bridges for all transportation connections in the city smaller changes could be made so that a 50-70 million dollar bridge is not needed. Even improvements like what Arlington did on I-30 highway bridges would be a massive improvement and cost dramatically less than another dedicated bridge with massive ramps and connectivity issues.

Everyone is so willing in Dallas to do these landmark projects that they can get a donor to sign on for but barely pay for the actual cost of. Things like bridges that cost 90 million to cross the Trinity but the name that goes on the bridge pays less than 10% of cost in most cases, so instead we are left begging the feds and taxpayers to pay so some else can get their name slapped on some project that makes a visual impact but rarely is actually needed to the extent that its designed.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby gshelton91 » 27 Jul 2017 10:01

I am really excited about the new Mockingbird Bridge. Even though the connector across Central is currently very bad it would not be too hard to improve it. The problem is until this bridge is finished there is just not much of a constituency to get it done. Considering the issues that the Katy Trail has with mixing cars and trail users at Knox - i don't think experimenting with it with six lane Mockingbird is a great idea for anyone.

Really these dedicated trails are very different from and do not a rich pedestrian infrastructure that is part of the street grid -- they are more like rail lines-- making it easier and faster to connect to more distant places. They Katy has become more of a long park than anything but with the Mockingbird bridge i wonder if that will change... giving people on the Katy more room to spread out.

I was very disappointed that the Friends of the Katy Trail did not want to have anything to do with the trail on the other side of I75 -- having worked on the Santa Fe Trail it is insanely hard to get an organization like the Katy up and running with the ability to get the kind of money that is needed to do anything. Part of that problem is with the park department and the requirements they have put the price of almost anything out of reach.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby tamtagon » 27 Jul 2017 10:35

Why isn't Monticello considered as a Katy Trail bridge over the highway?

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 27 Jul 2017 11:34

tamtagon wrote:Why isn't Monticello considered as a Katy Trail bridge over the highway?


Because the McCommas bridge is closer to Glencoe park which connects to the continued trail as it heads towards East Dallas. They made wide sidewalk improvements to the park and to McCommas Blvd from Mckinney Ave all the way to the east I-75 service road. Using the Monticello connection would require a significant budget addition for wider sidewalks and acquisition of land from Monticello all the way north to Glencoe park. The biggest disconnect is really a less than a mile distance from Mckinney Ave to the actual trail. An existing alley exists there and could be improved as a direct connection but that hasn't been done thus no one uses the McCommas connections except a small few people.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby KTuser » 10 Oct 2017 13:02

OCTOBER UPDATE FROM THE UCPID EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

October 10, 2017
A NOTE FROM THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

To begin, as many of you may have seen, construction of the University Crossing Bridge is entering its final phase. In September, the City of Dallas continued construction of the Bridge, which included assembling the walkway across Mockingbird Lane. Additionally, the City completed construction of a smaller bridge across the DART rail line just north of Twin Sixties Street, which will extend the trail east toward White Rock Lake. Finally, the City and the University Crossing Public Improvement District have been working closely on preparations for a ribbon cutting ceremony to commemorate the opening of the Bridge. Once plans are finalized, we will notify the community.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby KTuser » 18 Oct 2017 12:09

UNIVERSITY CROSSING COMMUNITY EVENT

October 17, 2017
On Saturday, Nov. 4, 2017, from 9am - 11am, we will be celebrating the opening of the Mockingbird Pedestrian Bridge and Trail at Glencoe Park and Mockingbird Station. Please join us for a community bike ride at 9am and enjoy food, fun and more in Glencoe Park and in Mockingbird Station in the University Crossing neighborhood.

Several City of Dallas Departments including City Hall on the Go, Animal Services, Dallas Police and Fire, etc., will be at the event!

Please email info@universitycrossing.com should you have any questions or visit www.universitycrossing.com.

We look forward to seeing you on Saturday, Nov. 4 in Glencoe Park!

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NdoorTX
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby NdoorTX » 13 Dec 2017 22:29

Homebuilder Toll Brothers eyes a development site near SMU

Steve Brown, Real Estate Editor
Connect with Steve Brown

One of the country's top homebuilders is looking at a high-rise residential project near Southern Methodist University.

Pennsylvania-based Toll Brothers is already working on urban apartment projects in West Dallas and in the Oak Lawn neighborhood.

Now Toll Brothers is considering a high-profile building site on busy North Central Expressway. The builder has contracted to purchase land near the southeast corner of North Central and Mockingbird Lane southeast of SMU.

The property is next door to the Palomar condominium tower and was originally planned for a second-phase residential building. The land is owned by Dallas-based investor Westdale.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... e-near-smu

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Cbdallas
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby Cbdallas » 14 Dec 2017 11:18

With that new pedestrian bridge connecting over Mockingbird I can see this overall area becoming popular as it also connects directly to DART rail station and off 75.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 14 Dec 2017 13:27

Speaking of the mockingbird pedestrian bridge... There's literally no light near the bridge after dark. Idk why they didn't think of lighting ...

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 14 Dec 2017 20:58

Cbdallas wrote:With that new pedestrian bridge connecting over Mockingbird I can see this overall area becoming popular as it also connects directly to DART rail station and off 75.


Ironically the bridge is of almost no value to the people who live and work there. No one is going to walk hundreds of yards out of their way to cross a street, even Mockingbird. It's only for the few people using the trail.

If it were a road or highway half of the folks on this forum would be screaming bloody murder about the city building a high-speed route through the neighborhood that only benefits the suburbanites passing through. :-)

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 14 Dec 2017 23:32

Hannibal Lecter wrote:No one is going to walk hundreds of yards out of their way to cross a street, even Mockingbird. It's only for the few people using the trail.


You do realize the main purpose of bridge is not for crossing the street? So yeah, you're right. It's not for them.

The purpose of the bridge was to connect Dallas' trails.

10 yrs ago, when the bridge was first proposed, it was part of the City's great plan to connect it's trails.

In fact, The original name of the bridge was Katy trail Extension bridge.

Yes,The bridge serves an alternative to crossing the street at grade level, people have died doing so; but it's not even supposed to be a crosswalk.

IMO, anything that encourages an active lifestyle should be applauded. I wish we had a better trail system. At least, this is a start.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Dec 2017 08:50

I would add that it was the local news media who made news stories connecting the bridge to stories of pedestrian deaths. Possibly even a neighborhood group somewhere making such a ridiculous claim. They needed an angle to cover the story of the bridge and the deaths seems like a good angle but the city never saw it as that kind of solution that I am aware of. It was how the news media tried to frame the conversation.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 15 Dec 2017 09:05

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I would add that it was the local news media who made news stories connecting the bridge to stories of pedestrian deaths. Possibly even a neighborhood group somewhere making such a ridiculous claim. They needed an angle to cover the story of the bridge and the deaths seems like a good angle but the city never saw it as that kind of solution that I am aware of. It was how the news media tried to frame the conversation.


I would agree with you halfway. Certain politicians have also played up the safety angle.

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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Dec 2017 10:52

This is one of those combinations of parsing the exact words said and how a politician is unlikely correct the press if it makes them look good. I can live with that cause in the end that bridge is a trail bridge and wont do diddly squat for people looking to cross Mockingbird who are not looking to traverse the long trail. I've done it before and it is scary no matter if the crossing light is on.

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tanzoak
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Re: Dallas Mockingbird Station

Postby tanzoak » 22 Dec 2017 17:34

Hannibal Lecter wrote:If it were a road or highway half of the folks on this forum would be screaming bloody murder about the city building a high-speed route through the neighborhood that only benefits the suburbanites passing through. :-)


Because unlike a bike/ped trail, high-speed roads and highways are ugly, noisy, polluting, and dangerous. Herp derp de derpity do.


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