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Museum Tower

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Tucy
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby Tucy » 26 Jun 2018 11:59

tamtagon wrote:
That there's an apartment in a troubled highrise listed at about the same price point, and that apartment sold is significant. The hyperbole in some of my booster club observations are gross to me too sometimes, but the threshold was crossed - an apartment sold for (probably) more than $10 million. Just because it's an even number, the next milestone is $20 million, which would approach the top floor of Dallas County residential sales.

I will say, though, that even I don't to know if Dallas will ever have apartments reaching an appraised value comparable to estates like that one Beal bought from Hicks. Could you imagine?


Funny you would say this when earlier you told us that "Dallas has now become a place where the most expensive condos are as pricey as the most expensive house estates". Such diametrically opposed posts would cause a good deal of cognitive dissonance in most people. ;)
Last edited by Tucy on 26 Jun 2018 12:02, edited 1 time in total.

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tamtagon
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby tamtagon » 26 Jun 2018 12:01

broad strokes

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Tucy
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby Tucy » 28 Jun 2018 11:18

I just got an email from Museum Tower promoting the "Final Penthouse Opportunity". It turns out this final penthouse opportunity is unit #4202, a previously non-existent unit.

4202 is a half-floor penthouse.. Half of the previously-marketed 4201.

So much for the fantasy of $20+ Million or even $10+ Million condo sales, or condos as expensive as the most expensive estate homes.
If Museum Tower is the gauge, the high-water mark for condos now appears to be closer to $6 Million, at most.

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Tucy
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby Tucy » 28 Jun 2018 13:01

In light of this morning's news that they have added a unit (the new 4202), I'm updating the status as of May 2018

One unit sold.
95 sold in 66 months. (1.44 per month) 21 remaining.

Rolling 12-month sales: 14 (1.17 per month)

Sellout projection, based on the pace of sales thus far: 6 years, 9 months.
Sellout projection, based on the pace of sales over the prior 12 months: 7 years.

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Tucy
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby Tucy » 28 Jun 2018 13:10

NdoorTX wrote:A client of mine has rented a unit on floor 6- the views are great from "down low" as well! Her in building realtor said the top floor penthouse had sold & the sub penthouse was under contract for half the floor. His view of sales were not like Tucy's. Of course he's a in home realtor, but he seemed sincere when he said they were on pace to sell out by the end of the year. :shock: :idea: :shock:


See what I mean about Realtors and their exaggerations? The Realtor told your client that the top floor penthouse had sold. Kinda sorta true. He/she just left out the part that they apparently subdivided it and sold half of the top floor, meaning they actually sold one of the top floor penthouses.

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tamtagon
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby tamtagon » 29 Jun 2018 11:39

Tucy wrote:
tamtagon wrote:I will say, though, that even I don't to know if Dallas will ever have apartments reaching an appraised value comparable to estates like that one Beal bought from Hicks. Could you imagine?


Funny you would say this when earlier you told us that "Dallas has now become a place where the most expensive condos are as pricey as the most expensive house estates". Such diametrically opposed posts would cause a good deal of cognitive dissonance in most people. ;)


I see the confusion in my commentary. Maybe I was drunk, but even with spellcheck the sentences would have more typing errors, so probably only giving a couple of minutes to issue a statement :D

I'll try to clarify, quickly.... a comment like "Dallas has now become a place where the most expensive condos are as pricey as the most expensive house estates" is really only considering what's for sale at the same time. The list-then-actual price of these million dollar highrise dwellings are all from recent construction; I realize that parameter had never been posted, but do many condos built before 2010 approach the million dollar for sale target? There may only be a hundred condos selling for a million or more.

I'm also limiting the sticker-price consideration to the greater downtown area.

The appraised value of condos is a whole different deal. At the rate we're going, it may be take another generations (?!?!) before city living in Dallas has been established to the point that families en masse have the ability to consider the pros and cons of condo purchase in the same realm as a single family home. Schools, parks w/playgrounds, perceived neighborhood safety... families raising children in the greater downtown area choosing to purchase a condo are pioneering that environment; one day the setting will offer enough to gain more equal footing when compared to a house with a yard. Until this happens the appraised value of a condo needs a telescope to view the appraised values of home estates in Preston Hollow, Bluffview, Park Cities....

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Tucy
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby Tucy » 05 Jul 2018 13:47

June 2018

One unit sold.
96 sold in 67 months. (1.43 per month) 20 remaining.

Rolling 12-month sales: 15 (1.25 per month)

Sellout projection, based on the pace of sales thus far: 6 years, 9 months.
Sellout projection, based on the pace of sales over the prior 12 months: 6 years, 11 months.

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tamtagon
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby tamtagon » 10 Jul 2018 09:41

tamtagon wrote:
Tucy wrote:
tamtagon wrote:I will say, though, that even I don't to know if Dallas will ever have apartments reaching an appraised value comparable to estates like that one Beal bought from Hicks.


Funny you would say this when earlier you told us that "Dallas has now become a place where the most expensive condos are as pricey as the most expensive house estates". Such diametrically opposed posts would cause a good deal of cognitive dissonance in most people. ;)


I'll try to clarify, quickly.... a comment like "Dallas has now become a place where the most expensive condos are as pricey as the most expensive house estates" is really only considering what's for sale at the same time.
... Until this happens the appraised value of a condo needs a telescope to view the appraised values of home estates in Preston Hollow, Bluffview, Park Cities....


Here's another DMN blog about fancy big homes on acreage. This one on the edge to town (Flower Mound):

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2018/07/09/want-live-french-chateau-fantasies-try-8-acre-flower-mound-estate

The 14,906-square-feet estate, which sits on 8.34 acres in the gated Chateau du Lac community near Grapevine Lake...

"It's probably the most spectacular opportunity in the state of Texas," said Elite Auctions CEO Randy Haddaway.

Because it's being sold at auction, there's no telling what the home's going price will be. But the Denton County assessor values the property and improvements at a total of $3.1 million.

Pricey houses like these don't sell fast — it can take anywhere from three months to three years to 10 years...


The estate looks fantastic, and I know that part of Denton County is pretty (prettier in Roanoke) and the appraised price is $3 million.

Then consider a Museum Tower penthouse listed for sale at $14 million maybe selling 10. Then we find out it was not the whole floor, but only half.... That's a pretty pricey half floor without a yard.

So, ya, among the most expensive dwellings being sold in North Texas these days are high rise condos in the greater downtown Dallas area.

:ugeek:

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Tucy
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby Tucy » 10 Jul 2018 10:14

tamtagon wrote:
tamtagon wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Funny you would say this when earlier you told us that "Dallas has now become a place where the most expensive condos are as pricey as the most expensive house estates". Such diametrically opposed posts would cause a good deal of cognitive dissonance in most people. ;)


I'll try to clarify, quickly.... a comment like "Dallas has now become a place where the most expensive condos are as pricey as the most expensive house estates" is really only considering what's for sale at the same time.
... Until this happens the appraised value of a condo needs a telescope to view the appraised values of home estates in Preston Hollow, Bluffview, Park Cities....


Here's another DMN blog about fancy big homes on acreage. This one on the edge to town (Flower Mound):

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2018/07/09/want-live-french-chateau-fantasies-try-8-acre-flower-mound-estate

The 14,906-square-feet estate, which sits on 8.34 acres in the gated Chateau du Lac community near Grapevine Lake...

"It's probably the most spectacular opportunity in the state of Texas," said Elite Auctions CEO Randy Haddaway.

Because it's being sold at auction, there's no telling what the home's going price will be. But the Denton County assessor values the property and improvements at a total of $3.1 million.

Pricey houses like these don't sell fast — it can take anywhere from three months to three years to 10 years...


The estate looks fantastic, and I know that part of Denton County is pretty (prettier in Roanoke) and the appraised price is $3 million.

Then consider a Museum Tower penthouse listed for sale at $14 million maybe selling 10. Then we find out it was not the whole floor, but only half.... That's a pretty pricey half floor without a yard.

So, ya, among the most expensive dwellings being sold in North Texas these days are high rise condos in the greater downtown Dallas area.

:ugeek:


You do love your fantasies, don't you?

First, there is absolutely ZERO reason to think that the half-floor at Museum Tower sold for anything close to $10 Million. None.

Second, that property you found in far-out wherever is interesting, but what else? Yes, there are homes for sale in the North Texas area for more than $3 Million. Many of them. Literally hundreds of them. There are also quite a few homes for sale for more than $10 Million, a price level not seen in the high rise condo market, so far as we are aware.

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tamtagon
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby tamtagon » 10 Jul 2018 12:14

Tucy wrote: There are also quite a few homes for sale for more than $10 Million, a price level not seen in the high rise condo market, so far as we are aware.


Source? How many homes are currently listed at $10 million+?

I knew eventually you would acknowledge the threshold I excitedly pointed out, thinly veiled by your pre-requisite camouflage saying the observation is a fantasy, another delusional hyperbole.

Museum Tower half-penthouse listed for $14 million and it sold; we'll have to wait and see if we ever learn the actual sale price, and whether it fell under the $10 million threshold. Probably more than 10 I'd say.

I also remember Ritz had a penthouse listed for more than $10 million, and I think it sold a few years back, but I do not think that one crossed the line, just aimed past the line.

RE: Flower Mound estate -- this shows what it takes to get a list price $3 million just north of Grapevine Lake and contributes to the awareness that downtown area condo values may be greater than we think. $3 Million for all that beautiful yard a privacy, compare and contrast to the downtown area amenities and a $3 Million dollar condo -- a noteworthy change to the quality of life in the downtown area. People have been complaining about rent prices in the fancy highrises, but they may actually be a good value for the money, considering all the area has to offer now. --that's what's interesting about a small estate in Flower Mound listed for $3 million.

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dukemeredith
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby dukemeredith » 10 Jul 2018 12:26

For what it’s worth, I don’t think that house at auction in the Chateau Du Loc community will sell for only $3mm. There’s another home for sale in that same community for over $12mm, and it’s comparable in size and finish.

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Re: Museum Tower

Postby tamtagon » 17 Jul 2018 08:51

tamtagon wrote:
Tucy wrote: There are also quite a few homes for sale for more than $10 Million, a price level not seen in the high rise condo market, so far as we are aware.


Source? How many homes are currently listed at $10 million+?


Here's a snapshot of the million dollar home sales:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2018/07/16/fewer-dallas-area-million-dollar-homes-sold-second-quarter

Fewer Dallas-area million-dollar homes sold in the second quarter
...
In the second quarter, 357 Dallas-area homes with a million-dollar price tag changed hands, according to Coldwell Banker's data from local real estate agents. That's about 4 percent fewer high-end home sales than in second quarter of 2017.
...
Sixteen Dallas-area homes now up for sale have price tags of $10 million or more, according to Realtor.com.
...
The most expensive second-quarter sales were a $13.5 million estate in Dallas and a Highland Park house that went for $8.27 million, according to Coldwell Banker.

For the first half of 2018, North Texas million-dollar home sales are still up about 4 percent, with 896 properties sold, according to the local multiple listing services.


16 homes currently for sale with a price $10 million or more. Interesting...

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dukemeredith
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby dukemeredith » 17 Jul 2018 11:29

tamtagon wrote:16 homes currently for sale with a price $10 million or more. Interesting...


Just another FYI, Zillow has 20 homes above $10,000,000 listed in Dallas County. Expand that search to all of DFW, and it rises to roughly 40 homes.

Two such homes come up in Chateau du Lac.

Dunno if any bit of my post is relevant, but here it is.

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tamtagon
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby tamtagon » 17 Jul 2018 21:15

^I thought 16 was kinda low. Maybe the DMN statement was city...? whatev

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Tucy
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Re: Museum Tower

Postby Tucy » 19 Jul 2018 11:38

Using Realtor.com, I find 15 homes in Dallas County, 2 in Denton County and 1 in Collin County (for a total of 18) listed at prices above $10 Million.

Of those, 5 are above $20 Million; and 1 above $35 Million (all six of these are in Dallas County). Also noteworthy for the thread, none of the 18 are condos.


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