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Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

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tamtagon
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Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby tamtagon » 05 Apr 2017 09:51

RIP Elbow Room

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comme ... al-college

A real kick in the teeth as Texas A&M takes the Elbow Room to make room for a dental college

Robert Wilonsky, City Columnist

...At 48 I'm already a remember-when guy, which has to be boring to the what's-next crowd for which this city's a playground.

Texas A&M University is preparing to bulldoze the Elbow Room by May's end to make way for a new college of dentistry, replacing the one only a short walk away. And the university's board of trustees got what it wanted using eminent domain.

... $300,000... wouldn't be nearly enough to let them reopen elsewhere in the neighborhood, which is slowly but surely being decimated by Baylor Medical Center (which gobbled up the landmark Metro Diner six years ago) and, now, A&M.

And much of the land's been snapped up — by A&M, according to the county's appraisal district.


So, how much land has A&M snapped up? Hopefully to enough to start a medical school.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 05 Apr 2017 14:32

As much as I have investigated it is only a dental school expansion not a full blown Medical School project.

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jrd1964
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby jrd1964 » 08 Apr 2017 02:21

Would there be any possible vacant spot in Deep Ellum that the Elbow Room could go? Or are they just going to give up?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 08 Apr 2017 11:40

jrd1964 wrote:Would there be any possible vacant spot in Deep Ellum that the Elbow Room could go? Or are they just going to give up?


Per the Dallas observer the owners are keeping some of the items , the sign and another memorabilia in case they reopen. I hope they stay on Gaston. Somewhere near Lakewood would be great.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 08 Apr 2017 18:53

The renovated (and empty) center at Swiss and Hall, where Bonnie Parker used to work, is such an obvious location that I have to assume the landlord is asking too much.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 Apr 2017 08:42

Hannibal Lecter wrote:The renovated (and empty) center at Swiss and Hall, where Bonnie Parker used to work, is such an obvious location that I have to assume the landlord is asking too much.


I agree and I would assume the same. By now a subway, nail salon or jimmy johns would have moved into that center but the owner must be holding out for a hefty price with the hotel going in next door.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 May 2017 11:55

Look what I found...http://www.brwarch.com/project/tamhsc/

For the Texas A&M Health Science Center (TAMHSC), BRW and our associate Design Architect are working together to design and document the Center for Oral Healthcare Clinic for the Texas A&M University (TAMU) College of Dentistry. This new clinic will provide state-of-the-art dental care to underserved populations and train students from under-represented communities.

The Center for Oral Healthcare Clinic building will consist of nine stories with nine different types of clinical environments and 355 total operatories, ranging from general practice to prosthodontics and implant surgery. The 160,000 SF facility will include laboratories, classrooms, student spaces, clinical support areas, and a utility plant. The existing building will be renovated to include a 4,000 SF stimulation center, gross anatomy laboratory, and additional academic laboratory environments in the existing basement.


TAMHSC-A.jpg

TAMHSC-1.jpg

TAMHSC-2.jpg
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xen0blue
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby xen0blue » 29 May 2017 12:08

It looks like this is where Elbow Room was

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 May 2017 12:15

Yes, this is what they have been talking about and why they needed Elbow rooms property. The building's front door will be where the Elbow Room was. Actually, it's more like where the new garage entrance will be.

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R1070
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby R1070 » 29 May 2017 17:01

Some of those surface lots in that area could use more apartments and condos for infill.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby tamtagon » 29 May 2017 17:39

That's nice and everything, but I wont be satisfied until there's a medical school.

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby willyk » 29 May 2017 22:24

I would like to see a stronger street presence for the parking structure.

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gshelton91
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby gshelton91 » 30 May 2017 09:25

I actually kind of like the look of the building but that big green space in the front is not helping anybody out... It has almost no engagement with pedestrians.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 30 May 2017 10:04

I wish there was some retail with a less obvious garage structure. Something similar to what Baylor did on the new garage further down on Gaston would be good.

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DallasMan
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby DallasMan » 01 Jun 2017 09:42

What a nice parking garage! Oh, and they even added some dental school space on top of the parking.

Blech.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby joshua.dodd » 01 Jun 2017 17:43

It's a school. It needs a parking garage for its students. The building looks great and it will be wonderful for the area and its economy. I swear, some people on here don't want to see the silver lining of these projects.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 01 Jun 2017 18:49

joshua.dodd wrote:It's a school. It needs a parking garage for its students. The building looks great and it will be wonderful for the area and its economy. I swear, some people on here don't want to see the silver lining of these projects.


I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that its not good for the economy or area. It's not even about the garage either. The criticism stems from the design. A few blocks down Baylor design a big garage that looks and interacts with the area in a superior way... This dental garage is uninspired ,effortless design.

Sigh...if you have to see the silver lining in architecture; chances are you're not getting something that is attractive. Just saying.

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willyk
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby willyk » 01 Jun 2017 23:49

The architect was seeking to evoke the image of a toothless grin.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby joshua.dodd » 02 Jun 2017 03:24

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
joshua.dodd wrote:It's a school. It needs a parking garage for its students. The building looks great and it will be wonderful for the area and its economy. I swear, some people on here don't want to see the silver lining of these projects.


I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that its not good for the economy or area. It's not even about the garage either. The criticism stems from the design. A few blocks down Baylor design a big garage that looks and interacts with the area in a superior way... This dental garage is uninspired ,effortless design.

Sigh...if you have to see the silver lining in architecture; chances are you're not getting something that is attractive. Just saying.


Considering that its function is a school, the university is obviously not concerned with street level interaction.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Jun 2017 09:18

joshua.dodd wrote:It's a school. It needs a parking garage for its students. The building looks great and it will be wonderful for the area and its economy. I swear, some people on here don't want to see the silver lining of these projects.


If we are always looking for the silver lining and in Dallas we always are when it comes to urban projects then you aren't doing it right. A silver lining is about finding the good in a terrible situation. I doubt anyone calls a dentist school expansion in Deep Ellum a terrible situation. Architecture is not by chance bad or badly implemented by accident. Architecture is the most purposeful career fields around. You actively decide to ignore things because the project is crafted from beginning to end to solve one issue or solve another. As a city we constantly ignore urban design so architects do as well when the client shows no leadership in wanting it as a part of a project's DNA. Priorities of budget, security, transit access etc shape an architect's final solution. Silver linings are about events with uncontrollable odds that you have to pick up what you have left and make the best of it. Good urban form in an urban environment is easy to fix if you want to cause at no point is bad urban form an accident it is purposeful negligence.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby tamtagon » 02 Jun 2017 11:48

A look at the evolution of UTA and UTD campus environment is in order; an intensive infrastructure renovation is underway to deliver a pedestrian oriented sense of place to both former commuter colleges. The same evolution is required in East Dallas, and should be backed up with a municipal mandate.

BaylorScottWhite and associated research and rehabilitation facilities, Texas A&M, Exall Park, Moody Foundation, Criswell and DTS --- all of it, the whole big patch should undergo a street level renovation establishing an environment of united pedestrian and vehicular mobility. The new dentist factory does not appear to have any notion of connection with the world around it.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 02 Jun 2017 12:57

As a state agency, Texas A&M is exempt from any "municipal mandate".

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby joshua.dodd » 02 Jun 2017 23:34

^^ This.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby dfwcre8tive » 03 Jun 2017 01:02

Hannibal Lecter wrote:As a state agency, Texas A&M is exempt from any "municipal mandate".


The same applies to UNT and its buildings in the historic districts downtown (they don't have to abide by any city historic ordinances). This is why the City of Dallas still owns the Municipal Building and will only lease it to UNT for their law school.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby tamtagon » 03 Jun 2017 10:29

What if Texas A&M provided the blueprint for such a renovation?

https://vimeo.com/24925483

Imagine the future of this East Dallas neighborhood.

What if these neighborhood institutions were pulled together by neighborhood infrastructure that is

Efficient
Resilient
Healthy
Sustainable
Just
Livable

Planners build cities, Texas A&M offers a Ph.D. in Urban & Regional Science. They ought to be able to build a dental professional factory that improves the neighborhood.

http://laup.arch.tamu.edu/academics/graduate/mup/

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby joshua.dodd » 04 Jun 2017 09:26

It's already improving the neighborhood.

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DallasMan
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby DallasMan » 05 Jun 2017 09:35

I don't think the comments on here about state agencies not having to abide by historic district zoning is accurate. While a state agency may have an argument they should be allowed to make alterations, etc., I don't think they can just ignore municipal ordinances at their discretion.

If A&M needs a zoning change for their dental school expansion, they still have to obtain city permission.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby tanzoak » 05 Jun 2017 20:41

DallasMan wrote:I don't think the comments on here about state agencies not having to abide by historic district zoning is accurate. While a state agency may have an argument they should be allowed to make alterations, etc., I don't think they can just ignore municipal ordinances at their discretion.

If A&M needs a zoning change for their dental school expansion, they still have to obtain city permission.


In California, at least, state agencies don't have to abide by municipal building ordinances. In practice, they tend to try to be good partners and not antagonize local governments, but it's ultimately at their discretion.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 05 Jun 2017 22:54

DallasMan wrote:If A&M needs a zoning change for their dental school expansion, they still have to obtain city permission.


Uh.... No.

Texas Local Government Code Sec. 211.013(c). "This subchapter does not apply to a building, other structure, or land under the control, administration, or jurisdiction of a state or federal agency."

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maconahey
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby maconahey » 06 Jul 2017 18:40

Drove by Elbow Room this afternoon and they had the rear knocked down. I'm guessing the whole thing will be cleared by the end of the weekend

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby The_Overdog » 06 Jul 2017 19:14

In practice, they tend to try to be good partners and not antagonize local governments, but it's ultimately at their discretion.


I'm not going to pretend I'm a lawyer, but I do know that state agencies submit changes to the planning and zoning board all the time, including for school districts and colleges, so if they don't have to do that and can build whatever they want, I'm not sure why they bother. I've also seen them be denied.

The only recent discussions I've seen about a college ignoring zoning regulations was for UTD in Richardson, and they asked for a change to explicitly allow retail (I think-it's been a while) but their original zoning was so broad their lawyers and dean thought they could ultimately build what they wanted with their original zoning, but asked for permission anyways. They certainly didn't state that they felt zoning law or city overlay plans didn't apply to them.

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tanzoak
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby tanzoak » 08 Jul 2017 10:21

The_Overdog wrote:I'm not going to pretend I'm a lawyer, but I do know that state agencies submit changes to the planning and zoning board all the time, including for school districts and colleges, so if they don't have to do that and can build whatever they want, I'm not sure why they bother. I've also seen them be denied.

The only recent discussions I've seen about a college ignoring zoning regulations was for UTD in Richardson, and they asked for a change to explicitly allow retail (I think-it's been a while) but their original zoning was so broad their lawyers and dean thought they could ultimately build what they wanted with their original zoning, but asked for permission anyways. They certainly didn't state that they felt zoning law or city overlay plans didn't apply to them.


Well, first of all,
In practice, they tend to try to be good partners and not antagonize local governments


Second, look up results from the Dictator Game (people behave "irrationally" altruistically, even when given total authority because a) we're social animals that don't like everyone hating us and b) things like "soft power" that are gained from good will have value in getting your way more generally)

Third, it's not like cities have no power to make an agency feel pain if they feel they've been bullied. Imagine an agency building this huge new development that the city objected to, and then the city refusing to make any improvements to the surrounding roads.

(Also, things may be different between CA and TX.)

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 Jul 2017 09:34

Lord knows what matters is what City Hall and the politicians that work there tell the organization off the record. UNT made significant changes to a historical building in Downtown Dallas against a group of people's wishes but the city was happy to have the redevelopment so I'm sure that stayed under the radar since the city wasn't blatantly against having a UNT campus take up residence in Downtown.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby gbud » 16 Oct 2017 21:06

Crane was being installed today, One more in the urban core... 8-)

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby jrd1964 » 17 Oct 2017 00:55

Somebody needs to have a crane company/factory around here somewhere :D

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby lakewoodhobo » 19 Oct 2017 07:41

Breaking ground Monday

Texas A&M to begin $129M building in Deep Ellum to boost Dallas enrollment

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ml?ana=lnk

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby kingpin » 27 Nov 2017 14:10

11/27

ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr
ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby Tnexster » 28 Nov 2017 21:16

It's stunning to see so much activity on the east side of 45.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby maconahey » 08 Feb 2018 16:24

Image

Image

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby kingpin » 25 Feb 2018 20:51

ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr
ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr
ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Feb 2018 08:33

There we go another brick in the wall.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby tamtagon » 26 Feb 2018 09:11

We don't need no education.

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maconahey
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby maconahey » 30 Apr 2018 18:05

Image

Image

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 May 2018 08:35

Up goes the Texas A&M wall.

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby maconahey » 29 May 2018 16:21

Image

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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby maconahey » 18 Jun 2018 16:23

Image

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maconahey
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby maconahey » 26 Jul 2018 09:14

Image

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Jul 2018 09:19

Castle tower is rising. Let's hope her defenses can keep the rough and tumble at bay.

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tamtagon
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Re: Deep Ellum: Texas A&M expansion

Postby tamtagon » 26 Jul 2018 09:57

I'm still hoping A&M can find the way to expand with a full-on medical school in East Dallas, preferably the whole body Osteopathic Medicine side of study to compliment the pin-point surgical study famous at UTSW. I only think A&M since the relationship to Baylor-Scott-White is already so strong, but maybe I guess UNT would be the Osteopathic expansion in East Dallas, but I've had them (in my mind) building the UNT-Dallas campus with a specialty focused at the Veterans Hospital one train station away.


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