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DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

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willyk
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby willyk » 08 Oct 2017 03:19

The Combs Produce site is fenced off and demo or remediation is happening. Does anyone know if a project is in the works?

lakewoodhobo
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby lakewoodhobo » 09 Oct 2017 08:08

willyk wrote:The Combs Produce site is fenced off and demo or remediation is happening. Does anyone know if a project is in the works?


Looks like the 297-unit development by Lynd Development Partners that was announced in March: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ers-market

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dukemeredith
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby dukemeredith » 09 Oct 2017 13:44

Perhaps a better article from TOWERS in March:

http://dallas.towers.net/2017/03/10/lyn ... rs-market/

No renders to be found, though.

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Austin55
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby Austin55 » 13 Oct 2017 00:17

https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/ABDataSearch ... RJB8802111


Estimated Start Date: 02/01/2018
Estimated Completion: 10/01/2019
Estimated Cost: $35,000,000.00

Project Name: Attiva Farmers Market
Project Address: 1011 S. Harwood St.
City: Dallas Zip: 75201 County: Dallas
Scope of Work: 5 levels of Type IIIA Multi-family residential over 2 levels of Type IA structured parking
Building/Facility Name: Attiva Farmers Market
Tenant:
Owner: Cortland Partners
Design Firm: Wdg Architecture Pllc

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby ContriveDallasite » 13 Oct 2017 03:37

Hmm, bugs me to think about what will become of the Farmers Market when it is just one shed and completely built out with Copy/Paste 5 level sticks. This area should really focus on bringing retail in to retain some of aspect of being an actual "Farmers Market".

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tanzoak
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby tanzoak » 13 Oct 2017 15:24

ContriveDallasite wrote:Hmm, bugs me to think about what will become of the Farmers Market when it is just one shed and completely built out with Copy/Paste 5 level sticks. This area should really focus on bringing retail in to retain some of aspect of being an actual "Farmers Market".


Not enough people in the area for retail. Need more copy/paste 5-level sticks.

DPatel304
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 13 Oct 2017 16:08

I agree we need more retail. The Farmer's Market has become a destination, and a good one at that, so even though there aren't enough residents currently, it would have been nice to see them try for more.

It doesn't even need to be more retail right now, but at least the potential for more would have been nice. As it stands, The Shed is going to soon be boxed in by these low rise apartments.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby lakewoodhobo » 17 Oct 2017 15:40

Attiva Farmers Market construction site.

Image

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Thymant
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby Thymant » 14 Nov 2017 02:02

Apartment project kicks off at downtown Dallas' Farmers Market
Steve Brown

Image

Image

Lynd Development Partners is building the more than 200-unit apartment project at Harwood and Cadiz streets in downtown Dallas.


The new apartment development is just across the street from the Farmers Market. Lynd filed building permits with the city for a $33.5 million development.


https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2017/11/13/apartment-project-kicks-downtown-dallas-farmers-market

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eburress
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby eburress » 14 Nov 2017 09:21

It's kinda cute how they worked in elements from the Farmers Market's shed into its design. haha (I hope they use a better looking brick than that)

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 14 Nov 2017 09:35

Wish we had towers instead of complexes

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muncien
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby muncien » 14 Nov 2017 10:19

I'll take 5-stories curb to curb over a 20 story tower covering 30% of the property, sitting on a six-story parking garage any day. :)

cowboyeagle05
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 14 Nov 2017 11:03

I am fine with lower 5-story stuff in this neighborhood. Farmers Market is the pseudo State Thomas of Downtown. Townhomes and apartment buildings that stay in a lower range in terms of height. It makes for a much more walkable neighborhood. Have you ever walked through State Thomas day or night? It's quite beautiful with lots of trees, working street lights and a variety of architecture that still seems to mostly fit together into the bigger picture. People actually desire to walk around State Thomas not just because of the nightlife nearby.

DPatel304
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 14 Nov 2017 11:24

I love the lower-rise buildings here, I just wish we had more retail on the ground floor.

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby ContriveDallasite » 16 Nov 2017 01:38

DPatel304 wrote:I love the lower-rise buildings here, I just wish we had more retail on the ground floor.


This is the crux of Dallas. The amount of retail packed in to my 5 story block in Munich is probably equivalent to half a square mile of coverage in Dallas.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby joshua.dodd » 16 Nov 2017 02:34

That's funny because you would think that the developers of these projects would add first level retail to their projects around the Farmer's Market. Apparently not.

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Tucy
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby Tucy » 16 Nov 2017 07:10

ContriveDallasite wrote:
DPatel304 wrote:I love the lower-rise buildings here, I just wish we had more retail on the ground floor.


This is the crux of Dallas. The amount of retail packed in to my 5 story block in Munich is probably equivalent to half a square mile of coverage in Dallas.


Interesting. Description? Pictures?

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tanzoak
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby tanzoak » 16 Nov 2017 14:25

DPatel304 wrote:I love the lower-rise buildings here, I just wish we had more retail on the ground floor.


Can't support retail everywhere without density. You're only going to get that with midrise once you have midrise everywhere, not just a few here and there (which I would completely support). And even our high-rises aren't particularly dense. A developer friend of mine in Oakland is building a 20-story residential building that's 450 dwelling units/acre. Dallas' 20-story towers are typically less than half that.

Dallas doesn't have an area over even 15k/sqmi.

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cyklopz
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby cyklopz » 16 Nov 2017 15:23

We just replaced a nasty smelly crumbling produce building...anything is an improvement. Harvest Lofts can't even fill their retail. This project looks incredible!

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 16 Nov 2017 15:31

tanzoak wrote:
DPatel304 wrote:I love the lower-rise buildings here, I just wish we had more retail on the ground floor.


Can't support retail everywhere without density. You're only going to get that with midrise once you have midrise everywhere, not just a few here and there (which I would completely support). And even our high-rises aren't particularly dense. A developer friend of mine in Oakland is building a 20-story residential building that's 450 dwelling units/acre. Dallas' 20-story towers are typically less than half that.

Dallas doesn't have an area over even 15k/sqmi.


I'm sure Vickery Meadows is well over 15K Now. Back in 2004 they were listed as 14k/sqmi in that neighborhood.

Uptown is probably up there too now.


Regarding, retail Dallas' biggest issue is Form. Sometimes they won't allow mid rises to even be built.

I remember Council woman Gates saying one time she didn't want single family units being replaced w multi family in her district. It's Absurd restricting natural growth in a city.

Fix the form and Density will take care of it self.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 16 Nov 2017 15:35

That's not the rule though. Many urban areas in every major city in America have multiple places where two and three-story buildings exist on the street with retail/commercial space on the ground floor and just a few units of residential or commercial space above. In some places this scale of development exists for multiple blocks in multiple directions before a tower of residential is ever seen. Some people also assume that means the alternative to massive numbers of units above a commercial space is that you need to have gobs of free parking for suburbanites to come parking nearby and that's a misunderstanding as well.

To get a vibrant commercial/retail zone does require rooftops, yes but the threshold is not 10-20 story towers of 200-500 units stacked nearby. Parking, traffic, transit access, walkability, location related to the residential area, demographics. etc.

Ground floor spaces in the CBD are on the edge of some of the "good" demographics for retail. You can see it when a company like Whole Foods opens just short of Downtown. Or that Tom Thumb that is finally willing to open a store south of Wyclif. If you had thousands of occupied single-family homes with "good" demographics in the Cedars, Deep Ellum, Riverfront and Uptown the CBD could attract more ground floor commercial/retail space.

The other major factor, not all developers are looking to do mixed-use cause it complicates a development. Most developers focus on one area of a project. Sure there are developers who have a residential division and a commercial division but many would prefer to throw up 400 units of luxury apartments, lease and flip the property so they can invest in their next build project. Adding commercial space and all the regulations that go with it complicate the design and management structure.

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tanzoak
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby tanzoak » 16 Nov 2017 16:00

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I'm sure Vickery Meadows is well over 15K Now. Back in 2004 they were listed as 14k/sqmi in that neighborhood.

Uptown is probably up there too now.


Regarding, retail Dallas' biggest issue is Form. Sometimes they won't allow mid rises to even be built.

I remember Council woman Gates saying one time she didn't want single family units being replaced w multi family in her district. It's Absurd restricting natural growth in a city.

Fix the form and Density will take care of it self.


Uptown's actually only around 12k. But its employment density and status as a regional draw make its effective density higher.

Vickery Meadow is around 11k. Yeah, there are two census tracts at 16k and 18k, but that's a tiny area. Even the whole Vickery Meadow area is small, and of course there are significant walkability design issues as well.

Regardless, there's not something special about 15k. If anything, from looking at cities I know, it looks like you need ~20k (outside of CBDs/other regional draws) for the kind of retail we're wanting.

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tanzoak
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby tanzoak » 16 Nov 2017 16:36

cowboyeagle05 wrote:That's not the rule though. Many urban areas in every major city in America have multiple places where two and three-story buildings exist on the street with retail/commercial space on the ground floor and just a few units of residential or commercial space above. In some places this scale of development exists for multiple blocks in multiple directions before a tower of residential is ever seen.


Well, sure. Because those places are dense. The point isn't that you need a certain building type to support retail but that you need a certain density. Unless Dallas is suddenly going to give a bunch of its ROW to property owners and start building zero lot line, zero parking 3-flats everywhere, bigger buildings are going to be needed.

DPatel304
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby DPatel304 » 16 Nov 2017 16:47

tanzoak wrote:Can't support retail everywhere without density. You're only going to get that with midrise once you have midrise everywhere, not just a few here and there (which I would completely support). And even our high-rises aren't particularly dense. A developer friend of mine in Oakland is building a 20-story residential building that's 450 dwelling units/acre. Dallas' 20-story towers are typically less than half that.

Dallas doesn't have an area over even 15k/sqmi.


I get that not everywhere can support retail, I guess it would be nice if these buildings were to plan ahead. Today the Farmer's Market can't support retail, but will it be different 10-20 years from now?

I'm also not suggesting all apartments add ground floor retail, but the Farmer's Market is somewhat of a destination and can draw people from other areas, but has essentially been 'boxed' in by apartments with no ground floor retail at this point. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't appear like there is any room for the Farmer's market to expand into any of the adjacent lots, because they've all been spoken for.

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Thymant
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby Thymant » 16 Nov 2017 23:58

DPatel304 wrote:
tanzoak wrote:Can't support retail everywhere without density. You're only going to get that with midrise once you have midrise everywhere, not just a few here and there (which I would completely support). And even our high-rises aren't particularly dense. A developer friend of mine in Oakland is building a 20-story residential building that's 450 dwelling units/acre. Dallas' 20-story towers are typically less than half that.

Dallas doesn't have an area over even 15k/sqmi.


I get that not everywhere can support retail, I guess it would be nice if these buildings were to plan ahead. Today the Farmer's Market can't support retail, but will it be different 10-20 years from now?

I'm also not suggesting all apartments add ground floor retail, but the Farmer's Market is somewhat of a destination and can draw people from other areas, but has essentially been 'boxed' in by apartments with no ground floor retail at this point. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't appear like there is any room for the Farmer's market to expand into any of the adjacent lots, because they've all been spoken for.


Right now there is no shortage of empty retail storefronts in the Farmers Market, plus more on the way with the Taylor Lofts. It doesn't seem to make economic since to have an excessive amount of empty retail. Resident are key to the being a daytime and evening population to support all the upcoming retail in downtown neighborhoods. Having a shortage of available retail would certainly be a good problem to have as it would spur more development in surrounding block but it currently it is it definitely not problem and doesn't seem as though it will be in any near future.

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Cbdallas
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Re: DTD: Farmer's Market 1.0

Postby Cbdallas » 08 Jan 2018 15:41

Has there been any progress on this space?
https://www.urbanfarmhouse.com/


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