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Victory Park 3.0

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R1070
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby R1070 » 13 Jul 2018 22:24

I feel like this area is now starting to beg for more activity. I drove through and the stuff that was open were all busy. I wish the new Asian restaurant was more open and inviting though. The windows are blacked out and makes it look closed.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Warrior2015 » 14 Jul 2018 16:43

R1070 wrote:I feel like this area is now starting to beg for more activity. I drove through and the stuff that was open were all busy. I wish the new Asian restaurant was more open and inviting though. The windows are blacked out and makes it look closed.

So is VP finally living up to its name ?

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willyk
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby willyk » 15 Jul 2018 22:47

R1070 wrote:I feel like this area is now starting to beg for more activity. I drove through and the stuff that was open were all busy. I wish the new Asian restaurant was more open and inviting though. The windows are blacked out and makes it look closed.


I ageee. The blacked out windows are off putting.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Warrior2015 » 16 Jul 2018 10:01

A little info about the cinema having a grand opening on July 27.

https://www.thedailytimes.com/entertain ... 02d36.html

DPatel304
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby DPatel304 » 25 Jul 2018 22:02

Co-working firm WeWork is growing its footprint with a new location in Victory Park.
The New York-based firm has rented two full floors of offices in the Victory Plaza building at 3090 Olive Street — at the entry to American Airlines Center. The new facility will include everything from private office suites to communal workspaces.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ice-center

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jsoto3
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby jsoto3 » 26 Jul 2018 21:39

jsoto3 wrote:
Reignofcane wrote:
ArtVandelay wrote:Is the parking garage facade going to have a light feature? At one point, it looked like there were a bunch of randomly located lights installed.

Yes. They have installed random placements all over the outside of the garage. I think it will be somewhat of a sparkle effect, although the lights themselves will have partial covers that will make the lighting somewhat indirect.


Correct. Here are some renderings of what it will look like:

Decorative light fixture installation is in progress:
IMG_32341.jpg
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cowboyeagle05
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 27 Jul 2018 09:06

I just thought those were the satellite dishes for the apartments...

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willyk
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby willyk » 30 Jul 2018 22:32

Retail in the Skyhouse 2 garage:
F45 Training—nearly open.
Brewed + Pressed— coming soon.

Cinépolis says they are open—no marquis, movie posters, spotlights, Flying Elvi or other splashy stuff one might expect from a movie theater grand opening.

LongonBigD
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby LongonBigD » 30 Jul 2018 23:06

willyk wrote:Cinépolis says they are open—no marquis, movie posters, spotlights, Flying Elvi or other splashy stuff one might expect from a movie theater grand opening.


Most places have a soft opening a few weeks before the Grand Opening with all the splashy stuff. Maybe that's the case here. Get some of the wrinkles ironed out before the masses show up.

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dzh
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby dzh » 31 Jul 2018 07:19

Not trying to be that annoying guy that tells you whether they liked something or not, but I went to Cinepolis Saturday night and really enjoyed it haha.

I really think it's going to be a nice asset at Victory Park

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Jul 2018 08:21

I had a friend who doesn't follow development news who asked me about Cinepolis cause she was planning to go soon then again she lives in Uptown so it's not far from her. The closer in we have these neighborhood amenities the fewer people living further south have to pack their SUVs and head north for basic fun and entertainment. The Alamo Cedars and Cinepolis seem like a pretty good option for most people.

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exelone31
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby exelone31 » 31 Jul 2018 08:27

dzh wrote:Not trying to be that annoying guy that tells you whether they liked something or not, but I went to Cinepolis Saturday night and really enjoyed it haha.

I really think it's going to be a nice asset at Victory Park


Not annoying at all, thanks for letting us know! Hopefully it will draw a steady stream of folks and bring some vibrancy to the area.

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dallaz
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby dallaz » 31 Jul 2018 09:19

I totally forgot to post this story about Victory Park, I seen on WFAA. Makes me excited to see what the future holds for VP.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ6nZex3D4s

Tnexster
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tnexster » 31 Jul 2018 09:38

That theater looks stellar, hope that brings people into the area. I guess with the parking garage at Cinepolis it would create a easier spot to park and take advantage of the entertainment. Is the parking at the movie theater restricted to movie goers or is it flexible?

Tnexster
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tnexster » 31 Jul 2018 16:59

Hillwood Urban's VP office project is on the City Plan Commission agenda for this Thursday. Didn't get a good look at the updated info but it's recommended for approval. No surprise there.

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jsoto3
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby jsoto3 » 01 Aug 2018 00:13

Tnexster wrote:That theater looks stellar, hope that brings people into the area. I guess with the parking garage at Cinepolis it would create a easier spot to park and take advantage of the entertainment. Is the parking at the movie theater restricted to movie goers or is it flexible?

Levels 2-4 of the garage are available for all retail patrons, not just for the cinema. The vehicular entry is on Victory Avenue and the pedestrian entry is on Victory Park Lane.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 Aug 2018 08:45

Tnexster wrote:Hillwood Urban's VP office project is on the City Plan Commission agenda for this Thursday. Didn't get a good look at the updated info but it's recommended for approval. No surprise there.


I wonder what this means. They already delayed the Planning Commission twice before to make changes to the plan and the 7 story version proposed is not the version they proposed to Amazon for the first phase but Hillwood doesn't seem like they would build a spec office tower in Victory Park without a lead tenant. Do they have another lead tenant in negotiation? Have they heard something from Amazon a yes or a no? Tea leaves bring me an answer I do not see!

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mcrdal15
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 01 Aug 2018 09:08

jsoto3 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:That theater looks stellar, hope that brings people into the area. I guess with the parking garage at Cinepolis it would create a easier spot to park and take advantage of the entertainment. Is the parking at the movie theater restricted to movie goers or is it flexible?

Levels 2-4 of the garage are available for all retail patrons, not just for the cinema. The vehicular entry is on Victory Avenue and the pedestrian entry is on Victory Park Lane.


Yes because God forbid you to have walk a couple of blocks :roll: . Gotta park that Hummer somewhere :lol: .

Tnexster
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tnexster » 01 Aug 2018 16:19

I hope it's an easier place to park and I am assuming it is, the parking situation before was awful and expensive which seemed to be a big deterrent.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 01 Aug 2018 23:28

Tnexster wrote:I hope it's an easier place to park and I am assuming it is, the parking situation before was awful and expensive which seemed to be a big deterrent.


You realize this is an "urban forum," right? So easy and abundant parking is the antithesis of good urban planning.

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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Aug 2018 08:17

It may be an "urban forum" but when the perception of Victory Park to many is that parking vs the value of a good time is not equal or greater on the good time side there is a problem. Tnexster is right Victory Park had a parking perception problem despite having enough parking for multiple Walmarts. The reality is there weren't places to enjoy as much as the Bishop Arts have or Deep Ellum or McKinney Avenue and notice none of them have huge parking lots. Instead, they have on the street parking, valet and residential-only parking areas where people get towed away yet more people are drawn to those areas. The equation balanced more on the side of a good time vs difficulty of parking. There are places people want to drink, eat and shop at and the risk and/or difficulty in finding a parking spot is worse but free in most cases. Victory may be headed for the "good time" side to finally meet up with the "parking difficulty" problem.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby The_Overdog » 02 Aug 2018 08:56

I've been going to Victory Park since the AAC was built and I've heard very few complaints about the parking. Everything else sucked about Victory Park - the parking has always been fine. Compare that to the State Fair, Knox-Henderson, Uptown, former Lower Greenville (when it was a party destination), and Cowboys stadium - those draw nothing but complaints about parking.

Tnexster
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tnexster » 02 Aug 2018 10:20

mcrdal15 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:I hope it's an easier place to park and I am assuming it is, the parking situation before was awful and expensive which seemed to be a big deterrent.


You realize this is an "urban forum," right? So easy and abundant parking is the antithesis of good urban planning.


Yes and the fact remains that most residents in DFW do not live in an urban environment, do not have access to or are unwilling to use mass transit or mass transit doesn't go anywhere near their final destination which leaves what? A car, which is the primary means of travel in DFW and unfortunately there are a lot of them and when people come into the city they need to park.

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Tucy
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tucy » 02 Aug 2018 10:46

Tnexster wrote:
mcrdal15 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:I hope it's an easier place to park and I am assuming it is, the parking situation before was awful and expensive which seemed to be a big deterrent.


You realize this is an "urban forum," right? So easy and abundant parking is the antithesis of good urban planning.


Yes and the fact remains that most residents in DFW do not live in an urban environment, do not have access to or are unwilling to use mass transit or mass transit doesn't go anywhere near their final destination which leaves what? A car, which is the primary means of travel in DFW and unfortunately there are a lot of them and when people come into the city they need to park.


Indeed. The percentage of DFW's population that can reasonably take DART to an event at the AAC, is de minimis.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Cbdallas » 02 Aug 2018 11:34

I go down to Victory all the time when I walk out of the Katy trail and this is the one thing that still concerns me for this area. It does not connect up to Design District - Uptown - Downtown, it is an island unto itself. Imagine if it connected with walkable points directly from the north where the Union and many other appartment towers sit full of people to pour in an enjoy the area but you have to cross multiple six lane and one way busy fast traveling streets of cars like playing frogger to get there and back. The island is getting more towers and people but it still is too disconnected from the surroung population.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 02 Aug 2018 11:49

Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:
mcrdal15 wrote:
You realize this is an "urban forum," right? So easy and abundant parking is the antithesis of good urban planning.


Yes and the fact remains that most residents in DFW do not live in an urban environment, do not have access to or are unwilling to use mass transit or mass transit doesn't go anywhere near their final destination which leaves what? A car, which is the primary means of travel in DFW and unfortunately there are a lot of them and when people come into the city they need to park.


Indeed. The percentage of DFW's population that can reasonably take DART to an event at the AAC, is de minimis.

That means nothing; that could be said for every Metropolitan center across the world. If you ever lived in any true urban center, you'd know that people drive to transit station from the burbs for sporting events all the time. They take buses or shuttles or even trains to the game! Heck we even have Uber now... The idea that you u need parking right next to the stadium is why Victory Park sucks in the first place. There was never anything to do there but park.

Being paranoid that there's not enough parking for a movie theatre when there's already enough parking for 20K in the nearby vicinity...come on. That's just a suburban mindset.

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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Aug 2018 12:08

Parking was the complaint about bars and restaurants, not the games/concerts. Parking has been fine for sporting events but the little number of bars and restaurants had issues where customers felt like it was a hassle even when there wasn't a game. Parking was a major concern for any newer tenants they attempted to sign in the past as well. Sure during games, they might get some customers but they needed reliable parking access for customers that would frequent a place regularly like any other restaurant in town. Parking complaints were one of number one problems listed in the study the German bank did about the lack of retail and restaurants in Victory Park. Easily identifiable parking with access to the retail zone for non-concert/games goers was a problem. No one wants to park at one of the far off lots to walk to a bar on Victory Avenue. The garages were discouraging retail and restaurant patron access in the way they were set up as well. The truth is Deep Ellum has less of a parking problem than Victory Park did.

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Tucy
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tucy » 02 Aug 2018 12:19

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:
Yes and the fact remains that most residents in DFW do not live in an urban environment, do not have access to or are unwilling to use mass transit or mass transit doesn't go anywhere near their final destination which leaves what? A car, which is the primary means of travel in DFW and unfortunately there are a lot of them and when people come into the city they need to park.


Indeed. The percentage of DFW's population that can reasonably take DART to an event at the AAC, is de minimis.

That means nothing; that could be said for every Metropolitan center across the world. If you ever lived in any true urban center, you'd know that people drive to transit station from the burbs for sporting events all the time. They take buses or shuttles or even trains to the game! Heck we even have Uber now... The idea that you u need parking right next to the stadium is why Victory Park sucks in the first place. There was never anything to do there but park.


It might mean nothing in your fantasy world, but here in the real world, it means quite a lot.

No, the same cannot be said for every metropolitan center across the world. You surely know better. I have indeed lived in a "true urban center" and am quite aware of how people get around with transit in such places. Dallas is not such a place. Dallas does not have the transit infrastructure to provide reasonably functional transportation (especially for non-work hours) for any but a very small slice of the population of the metro area.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby The_Overdog » 02 Aug 2018 12:36

No one wants to park at one of the far off lots to walk to a bar on Victory Avenue.


The mindset that it is not a good thing needs to die. And why does anyone need to drive all the way to Victory Park to go to Chilis? Victory Park sucked because the only reason to go there was for a game. Now that is has housing and some offices, it has some restaurants. Wow, magic.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 02 Aug 2018 13:02

Tucy wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Indeed. The percentage of DFW's population that can reasonably take DART to an event at the AAC, is de minimis.

That means nothing; that could be said for every Metropolitan center across the world. If you ever lived in any true urban center, you'd know that people drive to transit station from the burbs for sporting events all the time. They take buses or shuttles or even trains to the game! Heck we even have Uber now... The idea that you u need parking right next to the stadium is why Victory Park sucks in the first place. There was never anything to do there but park.


It might mean nothing in your fantasy world, but here in the real world, it means quite a lot.

No, the same cannot be said for every metropolitan center across the world. You surely know better. I have indeed lived in a "true urban center" and am quite aware of how people get around with transit in such places. Dallas is not such a place. Dallas does not have the transit infrastructure to provide reasonably functional transportation (especially for non-work hours) for any but a very small slice of the population of the metro area.


We all know what Dallas is like, but it continues to exacerbate the problem. There are major issues when it comes to building a transportation system designed for exclusively 1 form of mobility:
*Environmental damage, air quality, and resource depletion (I don't need to explain this, right?).
*Inequality issues & economic segregation (poorer people have the additional burden of car expenses, due to abysmal public transit and unsafe sidewalks or lack thereof. Job centers continue to sprawl further north, thus exacerbating the issues of economic opportunity.)
*Burdensome on the disabled
*Lack of freedom for others -- many people would like other options of mobility, but they're forced to drive.
*Car-oriented Infrastructure takes up way too much space -- think about how many more units of housing that could've been built as opposed to a bunch of parking spaces. Think about how many more businesses could open up if they were built on surface parking lots.

Dallas will continue to lose to its suburbs if it can't offer a truly alternative way of living and doing business. The point of living in places like Downtown, Uptown, Victory Park, etc. is that it allows people the ability to utilize several different means of getting around. And for some, ditching a car altogether. Why should residents in those areas be forced to accommodate outsiders? No one is advocating the elimination of parking altogether, but there is such thing as "overly excessive." Houston & Austin, which are just as car dependent as here, have eliminated minimum parking requirements in their Downtowns. Why can't that be done here?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 02 Aug 2018 13:10

Tucy wrote:It might mean nothing in your fantasy world, but here in the real world, it means quite a lot.


Calm down, Dont get triggered...but it's not a fantasy, when people already use DART to get to VP for games.

Tucy wrote:Dallas does not have the transit infrastructure to provide reasonably functional transportation (especially for non-work hours) for any but a very small slice of the population of the metro area.


DART doesn't need to provide transit for Little Elm or every city in DFW. The point is people CAN drive to a DART station and use the transit to get to the AAC. There's even Drop off zones for Uber at the AAC. The waiting times for games is not bad either. They have the trains ready post game for commuters.

We do not need to accommodate everyone and you can't given the finite amount of space. They can use DART, Uber or whatever means they gave to get back to their cars.. whether they are going to a game or a night out. This happens now and is not a fantasy.

Those parking lots in VP at some point will not be parking anymore. They will be developed. The games will go on and people will adapt and still get to the games or wherever they need to go in VP.

The need for Parking for everyone for every place that's the real fantasy.
There's so much parking garages in downtown anyway; people not wanting to walk a couple of blocks...I agree that's absurd.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 02 Aug 2018 13:25

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
The need for Parking for everyone for every place that's the real fantasy.
There's so much parking garages in downtown anyway; people not wanting to walk a couple of blocks...I agree that's absurd.


It is beyond absurd. If you're not physically disabled, you can walk a couple of blocks. No wonder our health care costs are so high. People are downright lazy and sedentary.

Some people on here fail to grasp why Downtown Dallas declined and became pretty much became irrelevant. When any city is built solely around one purpose (whether it's car-oriented transportation or around 1 industry such as in Detroit), the bust is so much more damaging compared to those that are more diversified. Downtown Dallas should be a lesson on how NOT to build a downtown (single use skyscrapers, car dominated). There should be a distinctive difference between DTD & Frisco. If DTD acts like Frisco, guess who wins?

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby ContriveDallasite » 02 Aug 2018 13:26

The problem with DART is it is simply not convenient enough for 80% of the citizens in DFW *dare I say Dallas* to use it. Arguing that buildings in downtown should sacrifice on parking for the sake of urbanity simply is not economical because the companies housed in those buildings would move to Frisco/Plano/Las Colinas/Addison.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 02 Aug 2018 13:46

ContriveDallasite wrote:The problem with DART is it is simply not convenient enough for 80% of the citizens in DFW *dare I say Dallas* to use it. Arguing that buildings in downtown should sacrifice on parking for the sake of urbanity simply is not economical because the companies housed in those buildings would move to Frisco/Plano/Las Colinas/Addison.


Some companies, not all. For many that relocated to Frisco from elsewhere, Downtown was never an option. They wanted their suburban office campus. Downtown has to draw in those that *actually* want to be in a downtown. I doubt we're getting Amazon, but it is an example of a company specifically wanting an urban environment. AT&T, same thing. Then there's the side of talent -- if downtown/uptown is a major draw for a company's talent pool, they would be incredibly stupid to relocate out in a place like Frisco. So not quite a "simplistic" as you make it seem.

And for the sake of urbanity? You act like this is something arbitrary or an attempt to be "hip." This is serious business and if Downtown wants to reach its fullest potential, it has to act like a "Downtown."

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Tucy
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Tucy » 02 Aug 2018 14:36

My goodness, reality gets rough treatment around here. I'm not even going to try to respond to all of the strawman and other false arguments that have been thrown out. Suffice to say, I did not suggest that no one takes DART to the AAC. Of course some do.

None of the strawmen change or even address the fact that the percentage of the DFW population for which DART offers reasonably functional transportation to events at the AAC is very very small.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 02 Aug 2018 15:16

Tucy wrote:None of the strawmen change or even address the fact that the percentage of the DFW population for which DART offers reasonably functional transportation to events at the AAC is very very small.


That's their problem. If you choose to live in a suburb, especially one that is a non-DART member, you don't get the luxury of convenience. We all make choices and should pay for the consequences of those choices. Why should someone's transportation needs from Little Elm or Roanoke trump those who are residents of Victory Park? And how many of those people are actually traveling to AAC on a regular basis? I have relatives in the Mid-Cities that do attend AAC events quite frequently and they always drive to a DART station. They accept "reality." They've accepted the fact that they live in a far flung suburb and fully expect that Downtown Dallas won't have front door parking. You're living in fantasy land if you think the downtown area of the 9th largest city should have convenient and abundant parking for a metro of over 7 million residents.

With the residential growth of Downtown, Uptown, and Victory Park, AAC won't have to rely heavily on those living further out. With more entertainment options growing in the suburbs, there's no need to have to travel all the way to Dallas. So therefore, Dallas should be more concerned about its local residents and their needs as opposed to those living out in far flung 'burbs.

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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 03 Aug 2018 09:24

The best customer is the one in the first few miles not the guy in the far-off development way out in the far fling burbs. For most of these types of businesses taking up residence in urban Dallas, they tend to still focus most of their marketing and access improvements aka parking on the Frisco customer than the ones that are closest to them. Mind you the number of residential rooftops is only more recently been improving as far south as the CBD in the recent decade, depending on what demo you are looking for of course. There is a constant issue in Dallas of trying to be a destination business that attempts to draw customers from all over DFW rather than the ones closest to them creating a perceived parking problem.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 03 Aug 2018 10:58

cowboyeagle05 wrote:The best customer is the one in the first few miles not the guy in the far-off development way out in the far fling burbs. For most of these types of businesses taking up residence in urban Dallas, they tend to still focus most of their marketing and access improvements aka parking on the Frisco customer than the ones that are closest to them. Mind you the number of residential rooftops is only more recently been improving as far south as the CBD in the recent decade, depending on what demo you are looking for of course. There is a constant issue in Dallas of trying to be a destination business that attempts to draw customers from all over DFW rather than the ones closest to them creating a perceived parking problem.


The bolded is exactly it. That's what sustainability and the concept of work/live/play is all about. It boggles my mind for people to think that a relatively small area like Downtown Dallas should have to accommodate a metro of over 7 million people. The vast majority of DFW residents aren't commuting to Downtown Dallas on a regular basis. This is multi-nodal metro area, with Downtown Fort Worth and several other employment hubs. Why should DT Dallas be catering to people who live way out in Frisco or Weatherford? It makes no sense at all. And if your suburb chose not to join DART, then why should we try to accommodate parking for you?

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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 03 Aug 2018 11:09

Which is why I am against wholesale parking lots and garages in some of our neighborhood hotspots like Bishop Arts or Lowest Greenville where some claim a garage is needed. People think all those people parking in front of their houses will just quietly be absorbed into a garage like a toddler putting his limited number of toys away in the toy box. The problem is building much larger parking capacity will just invite more and more parking problems and attract further away patronage of people who, to be honest, don't live here so they don't care. A night out in Deep Ellum turns into more and more people getting rowdy making a mess and driving home without a care of the "trouble" they caused. Those neighborhoods have the parking capacity in general terms in the amount they should have. If you as a business want more people to patronage your business look to the people around you and cap the amount you spend on targeting of people out in in the far-flung areas. They are a more costly customer to wrangle.

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Dragon_Lady
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Dragon_Lady » 03 Aug 2018 23:20

Anyone have any new information with Houston based Hines development company about their alleged planned office or mixed use high-rise adjacent to the W (on or near the former site of the Mandarin mixed use ~650 tower proposal)?

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 05 Aug 2018 22:51

If a downtown business doesn't have convenient parking then it's not catering to me -- and I live less than half a mile outside the loop. Parking isn't for "Frisco or Weatherford", it's for Lakewood and Lake Highlands. If you make it inconvenient for those people they have plenty of options. If you don't have convenient access then you aren't competitive.

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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 06 Aug 2018 09:24

Hannibal Lecter wrote:If a downtown business doesn't have convenient parking then it's not catering to me -- and I live less than half a mile outside the loop. Parking isn't for "Frisco or Weatherford", it's for Lakewood and Lake Highlands. If you make it inconvenient for those people they have plenty of options. If you don't have convenient access then you aren't competitive.


No one said there shall be no convenient parking either but the discussion point here is what is the proportional balance between chasing a Walmart parking lot of parking, in proportion to the size and type of business of course, vs appealing to the customer closer that is likely to use Uber, bike, scooter, walk, bus, train? You, Hannibal, are very unlikely to do any of those things unless it's across the street and that's a reality. It doesn't make you wrong of course it's just what you find convenient and your behavioral default and how you like to spend your money. Personally, it was until I forced myself to use the DART bus and not rely on my car that I was able to change my transportation habits and moved to Oak Lawn where I was able to cut out 90% of my transportation needs cause I was tired of pouring my money into a car and into tanks of gas each month. I am also a single man with no children. I still own and pay for a car but the mileage is much lower taking it out once a week vs to work 5 days a week.

To be realistic, which is where you are coming from, I realize we are in Dallas which means the proportion of users drifts close to car-based transportation than like me but that doesn't mean a business shouldn't consider the fact that ignoring the other transit opportunities to bring them customers with little to no cost to house their car isn't an unrealistic option. I get that no business owner is likely to deny money from their till just to make a philosophical stand but there some sense and economic evidence that automobile parking has to have its limits and that it is not required to have a successful business in Dallas.

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mcrdal15
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby mcrdal15 » 06 Aug 2018 11:34

cowboyeagle05 wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:If a downtown business doesn't have convenient parking then it's not catering to me -- and I live less than half a mile outside the loop. Parking isn't for "Frisco or Weatherford", it's for Lakewood and Lake Highlands. If you make it inconvenient for those people they have plenty of options. If you don't have convenient access then you aren't competitive.


No one said there shall be no convenient parking either but the discussion point here is what is the proportional balance between chasing a Walmart parking lot of parking, in proportion to the size and type of business of course, vs appealing to the customer closer that is likely to use Uber, bike, scooter, walk, bus, train? You, Hannibal, are very unlikely to do any of those things unless it's across the street and that's a reality. It doesn't make you wrong of course it's just what you find convenient and your behavioral default and how you like to spend your money. Personally, it was until I forced myself to use the DART bus and not rely on my car that I was able to change my transportation habits and moved to Oak Lawn where I was able to cut out 90% of my transportation needs cause I was tired of pouring my money into a car and into tanks of gas each month. I am also a single man with no children. I still own and pay for a car but the mileage is much lower taking it out once a week vs to work 5 days a week.

To be realistic, which is where you are coming from, I realize we are in Dallas which means the proportion of users drifts close to car-based transportation than like me but that doesn't mean a business shouldn't consider the fact that ignoring the other transit opportunities to bring them customers with little to no cost to house their car isn't an unrealistic option. I get that no business owner is likely to deny money from their till just to make a philosophical stand but there some sense and economic evidence that automobile parking has to have its limits and that it is not required to have a successful business in Dallas.


It's not even worth the time trying to debate these straw-man arguments. For some people, if Downtown doesn't have front door parking and they have to walk even 1/4 of a block, then it's incredibly inconvenient to them. It's absurd, but you're never going to convince them otherwise. You and I, along with several others, stand by the argument that a successful and sustainable downtown is NOT solely defined by convenient and excessive parking. What is the purpose of even having a downtown then? Downtown tried that experiment and failed. If people like Hannibal Lector, Tucy, etc. want convenient, strip mall parking, then there's a million other places in Dallas and DFW for them to spend their money at. And that's fine, but expecting Downtown to be the same defeats the entire purpose of having a downtown.

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tamtagon
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby tamtagon » 06 Aug 2018 12:36

I wouldn't walk from Deep Ellum to Victory Park unless I had to. I tried walking from Fitzhugh @ Live Oak to the DMA or vice versa a few times and Fitzhugh @ Live Oak to Hall @ McKinney.... while it was a fun exploration at times, I didn't want to do it again. Just a little too far. I don't know how much this trip would cost on Uber/Lift, but the taxi ride was too much, I would drive.

Back then, I never looked to see if the bus was an option.

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Dunner
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby Dunner » 07 Aug 2018 09:58

Getting back on topic, went to the Cinepolis in Victory Park last weekend and it was incredible. Good food, great seats, huge theater screen and a gorgeous lobby with convenient garage parking. Even without the garage parking, the area is very walkable.

It was pretty busy for a Sunday matinee and the Saturday showing was completely booked.

Hope this becomes a trend.

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tamtagon
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby tamtagon » 07 Aug 2018 11:56

I think Victory Park will need something else to really make it as a thriving neighborhood. VP needs another ingredient to become a good stew... or brew...

The sport and special event arena promises the neighborhood potential with a flash flood of excitement most of the year. When the pedestrian blocks surrounding the arena have finally settled into a groove and the development is ~complete, the crowds will deliver the bursts of excitement and activity appropriate to the scale of the masterplan. People will hang out on the streets and plaza after the events when the place is done.

The first class treatment at the new movie theater is a big improvement to the initial setting of novel restaurants, courture-ish shops and Vegas-Miami-Chicago themed nightclubs.

Even if retailers come back with the unique stuff, even if another small local department store finds a home, I think the neighborhood will need something else, another addition to the downtown pattern of unique/niche product and experiences.

The neighborhood addition, I have always thought would be perfect at Victory Park is a collection of art galleries and design showrooms.

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willyk
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby willyk » 07 Aug 2018 21:17

VP Retail:

In Skyhouse: Dog City
The garage bar appears to be back under construction.

DPatel304
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Aug 2018 23:09

tamtagon wrote:I think Victory Park will need something else to really make it as a thriving neighborhood. VP needs another ingredient to become a good stew... or brew...


Agreed. Is there a reason why they don't do something with the plaza and the screens outside the AAC? Maybe they already are and I'm just not aware of it, but seems like they could definitely do something here on non-event days just to get people out to Victory Park.

I also think it would be extremely beneficial to do something better with the plaza and space underneath Woodall. I really think it would be cool to have some sort of 'lights' display underneath the highway. Dallas is all about flashy lights, so why not add some more here and make it an attraction and, more importantly, make it look and feel safer for people walking from the West End to Victory Park. They could even go one step further, close down this portion of McKinney Ave, and directly connect the plaza to the West End alleyway.

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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Aug 2018 15:00

Found some additional renderings of Hillwood proposed office project next to the DART station. Including one that shows an improved plaza connecting the DART train to Victory Avenue.

Hillwood-Office-smaller-898x580.jpg
Site-Plan-WEB.jpg
View-03-V4-WEB.jpg
View-02-V4-WEB.jpg
Lobby-View-Web.jpg
Lounge-WEB.jpg
Tenant-Stair-View-WEB.jpg
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R1070
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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Postby R1070 » 09 Aug 2018 20:24

I think more infill buildings like this throughout Central Dallas is much needed. Not everything has to be a certain height to have a great presence.


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