Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

[tamtagon]

I doubt they'll engage the street level experience until there's a nice hotel anchoring the development, but when it's time for that, Harwood will probably be the nicest street in this part of what used to be called Oak Lawn.

[Tucy]

Bleu Ciel has started selling units. Since some have asked for information on Bleu Ciel sales, here you go:

Sales appear to have kicked off on December 21 and by the end of the month of December, 2017, they had recorded 5 sales.

158 total units in the building. 5 down; 153 to go.

1 additional unit sold in January 2018. 6 down; 152 to go.

[Tnexster]

I would have figured BC would be selling faster than that.

[Tucy]

I would have figured BC would be selling faster than that.

Agreed.

1 unit sold in February 2018. 7 sold; 151 remaining.

[muncien]

Yikes! Werent there presales on this building? I thought they wanted to reach a certain threshold before they even began construction?

[eburress]

I'm sure my opinion has no impact on the building's sales, but I think Blue Ciel turned out awfully. I wouldn't buy a place there.

[flyswatter]

Yikes! Werent there presales on this building? I thought they wanted to reach a certain threshold before they even began construction?

Maybe they don't include presales? Don't know how it all works but maybe they do not consider it sold until the unit has been finished out and the keys are handed over to the owner?

[Tucy]

Yikes! Werent there presales on this building? I thought they wanted to reach a certain threshold before they even began construction?

Maybe they don't include presales? Don't know how it all works but maybe they do not consider it sold until the unit has been finished out and the keys are handed over to the owner?

The numbers I am posting are for closed sales recorded with the county. That does not include pre-sales.

But think Muncien's question about pre-sales was not whether they were included in my numbers, but whether they did not have pre-sales in their pocket, so to speak. Typical condominium developments have pre-sales, often 50% or more before they start construction. When a building is completed, the pre-sales are converted to sales, which would typically be recorded in the first month or few months after the building is completed.

[Tucy]

Yikes! Werent there presales on this building? I thought they wanted to reach a certain threshold before they even began construction?

Maybe they don't include presales? Don't know how it all works but maybe they do not consider it sold until the unit has been finished out and the keys are handed over to the owner?

The numbers I am posting are for closed sales recorded with the county. That does not include pre-sales.

But I think Muncien's question about pre-sales was not whether they were included in my numbers, but whether the developers did not have pre-sales in their pocket, so to speak. Typical condominium developments have pre-sales, often 50% or more, before they start construction. When a building is completed, the pre-sales are converted to sales, which would typically be recorded in the first month or few months after the building is completed.

[Tucy]

Nothing sold in March 2018. 7 sold; 151 remaining.

[Cbdallas]

At least Museum tower is beautiful. This building for me is a huge let down. The very top of that thing looks horrific. Still glad it got built but could and should have looked much better.

[Matt777]

Are these on the MLS? I don't see listings on any of the popular real estate websites. I know it's not a requirement to sell units, but it can't hurt. It would increase the visibility to both buyers and realtors.

Also, the building is not done and looks like the upper floors are still being finished out. Maybe the developers are waiting until construction ends before they make a big sales push?

[Chris Sapphire]

Hopefully the building's facade lighting at night improves because right now it's disappointing.

[vman]

At least Museum tower is beautiful. This building for me is a huge let down. The very top of that thing looks horrific. Still glad it got built but could and should have looked much better.

I think I've only seen the building from behind (west facing side), but it's really unattractive. It actually still looks unfinished to me.

[ozzie]

I walked around the property a couple of weeks ago. There is still a lot of work to be done. There are several large construction trucks, cement trucks, and workers all over the place. It's pretty dusty and dirty at ground level. I certainly would not want to live there now anyway. I also noticed this building is not connected to the Katy Trail. There is a parking lot in between owned by KERA. Does anyone know if there are plans to connect to the KT?

[tamtagon]

^Isn't there supposed to be a bike shop occupying one of the retail suites of the building, reinforced by a connection to the Katy Trail? Maybe that'll come later...? also, wasn't there supposed to be some variation of a neighborhood grocery store?

[cowboyeagle05]

^Isn't there supposed to be a bike shop occupying one of the retail suites of the building, reinforced by a connection to the Katy Trail? Maybe that'll come later...? also, wasn't there supposed to be some variation of a neighborhood grocery store?

The bike shop is going into The Katy the residential tower in Victory Park. It will be another location of Richardson Bike Mart. Yes, originally they were talking about a "grocery store" of some sort. I imagine they didn't have a lease just were conceptualizing something that may have not panned out.

[tamtagon]

Harwood will eventually add a hotel to the mix, that's when much of the retail becomes activated, I would imagine.

[DPatel304]

This is the first time I've seen a Bleu Ciel unit on MLS with actual pictures, if anyone is curious about taking a look:
https://www.redfin.com/TX/Dallas/3130-N ... /143965501

[I45Tex]

Nice find, DPatel, although cringeworthy also, of course.*

I guess it's still weird to me because D Magazine was talking price hikes on these units three years ago: https://candysdirt.com/2015/04/23/price ... bleu-ciel/
Maybe zero of those deposits eventuated into real live pre-sales after all, but I still don't altogether understand.

* When there's a building u/c overlooking Central Park whose core is over 300 meters tall now, whose penthouse will be (per CTBUH) over 180 feet above the highest occupied floor of Freedom Tower, with a seven-floor Nordstrom's in the base, and whose projected residential sales target is well over four billion dollars, then you've got to think twice about the listing's current boast that "Bleu Ciel is poised to become the most coveted condominium development in the nation." I wouldn't be surprised if they remove it from the spiel soon, but for the time being, it's some pretty oblivious, Center-of-the-universe-is-Dallas, big haired hype.

[Tucy]

Nice find, DPatel, although cringeworthy also, of course.*

I guess it's still weird to me because D Magazine was talking price hikes on these units three years ago: https://candysdirt.com/2015/04/23/price ... bleu-ciel/
Maybe zero of those deposits eventuated into real live pre-sales after all, but I still don't altogether understand.

* When there's a building u/c overlooking Central Park whose core is over 300 meters tall now, whose penthouse will be (per CTBUH) over 180 feet above the highest occupied floor of Freedom Tower, with a seven-floor Nordstrom's in the base, and whose projected residential sales target is well over four billion dollars, then you've got to think twice about the listing's current boast that "Bleu Ciel is poised to become the most coveted condominium development in the nation." I wouldn't be surprised if they remove it from the spiel soon, but for the time being, it's some pretty oblivious, Center-of-the-universe-is-Dallas, big haired hype.

That was a "Candy's Dirt" link, not D Magazine. Nothing more than a marketing puff piece. Often developers offer special pricing in the pre-construction phase. It's part of what gets them their financing. That's why, in spite of her puffing it up to make it seem like spectacular news, this piece was non-news when she published it even if, on some level, there was some truth to it. It's useful to note that in the article it says the smallest units on lower levels were raised from $509 to $586/square foot. Unit 604 is currently offered at 488.81/sq ft.

[Tucy]

April 2018

4 units sold. 11 sold in 5 months. 147 remaining.

[Tnexster]

Seems like a faster pace than Museum.

[kingpin]

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr

[DAFW]

It looks.... unfinished. All I can see is exposed concrete and glass...

[Tucy]

May 2018

5 units sold. 16 sold in 6 months. 142 remaining.

[Tucy]

June 2018

3 units sold. 19 sold in 7 months. 139 remaining.

[Tnexster]

The sales pace is certainly better on this tower.

[Tucy]

July 2018

5 units sold. 24 sold in 8 months. 134 remaining.

[Tucy]

August 2018

1 unit sold. 25 sold in 9 months. 133 remaining.

[Warrior2015]

August 2018

1 unit sold. 25 sold in 9 moths. 133 remaining.

I bet its eerie quiet in them hallways. Lol

[Tucy]

September 2018

1 unit sold. 26 sold in 10 months. 132 remaining.

[CTroyMathis]

Speaking of this building, check out the downward views from the cantilevered pools (without water).

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bofcp3pn04V ... by=jihance (scroll)

[eburress]

^^ Jihane has since made her IG private hahaha

[Tucy]

October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

[Tnexster]

October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

So at this rate? Are you going to do your sellout estimation?

[Tucy]

October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

So at this rate? Are you going to do your sellout estimation?

Wasn't really planning on it, because I don't have developer sell-out projections to measure against (or the amateur projections made by forum members). But I'm happy to run the math: Right now, the projection would be 4 years, 9 months.

[Tnexster]

October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

So at this rate? Are you going to do your sellout estimation?

Wasn't really planning on it, because I don't have developer sell-out projections to measure against (or the amateur projections made by forum members). But I'm happy to run the math: Right now, the projection would be 4 years, 9 months.

Thanks

[tamtagon]

October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

So at this rate? Are you going to do your sellout estimation?

Wasn't really planning on it, because I don't have developer sell-out projections to measure against (or the amateur projections made by forum members). But I'm happy to run the math: Right now, the projection would be 4 years, 9 months.

I was going to say, five years sounds about right. If Harwood Dallas recruits some big office tenants and kicks into higher gear with bigger office buildings, this would likely sell faster.

[Tucy]

November 2018

2 units sold. 33 sold in 12 months. 125 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 10 months

[Tucy]

December 2018

3 units sold. 36 sold in 13 months (2.77 per month) 122 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 10 months

[Tivo_Kenevil]

December 2018

3 units sold. 36 sold in 13 months (2.77 per month) 122 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 10 months

In your opinion, How good is the selling rate? I don't know how Dallas compares to other city centers where this type of product is usually sold. I'd be interested to see if we get more of these Ivory tower projects in Dallas.

[Tucy]

December 2018

3 units sold. 36 sold in 13 months (2.77 per month) 122 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 10 months

In your opinion, How good is the selling rate? I don't know how Dallas compares to other city centers where this type of product is usually sold. I'd be interested to see if we get more of these Ivory tower projects in Dallas.

Well, it's selling at a considerably faster rate than Museum Tower ever did, so there's that. But I'm surprised at how slow it's going. The other relatively recent building (Stoneleigh) hasn't exactly been selling like hot cakes either.

Typically, successful projects will close on a bunch of units in the first couple months after opening. I know of one project, for example, that closed on more than 40 units (in a 99 unit building) in the first 62 days. High-rise living seems to still be a bit of a hard sell in Dallas.

[dzh]

Does anyone know whatever happened to the grocer that they were going to put in this building?

[Matt777]

I wonder how any of these condo towers would sell if they were built in good locations. Their placement has been bizzare. This is between a highway offramp and a public housing project, surrounded by scarred empty lots and no connection to the nearby Katy Trail. How much faster would this be selling if it was built on McKinney Avenue in Uptown? Or up the Katy Trail? Why are no condos being built in high appeal areas?

[Tucy]

Does anyone know whatever happened to the grocer that they were going to put in this building?

Good question. Their website still promotes it as a building amenity:

"GOURMET GROCERY MARKET WITH RESIDENT DELIVERY SERVICES
The only one of its kind. Residents will have peace of mind and convenience with gourmet grocery store delivery services to their residence."

They also promote:

"STREET LEVEL EUROPEAN MARKET, JUICE BAR, AND BIKE SHOP
Residents will have immediate access to a blend of fare, health, and fitness at the street level."

Does anyone know if any of that has materialized?