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Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

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Cord1936
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Cord1936 » 06 Jul 2017 16:41

Tnexster wrote:I'm a little surprised they aren't going forward with the residential tower. Maybe they will change their minds before too long. Downtown seems ripe for more residential options.

^^^^^^^
With Dallas hitting extremely strong numbers across the board - payroll growth, population growth, absorbing rental units faster than they're being built, number one in single family home construction, number one office leasing market in nation, second in hotel room construction in the nation, etc., etc. - I would not be surprised you are correct and the residential component of this project will start sooner rather than later.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby tamtagon » 06 Jul 2017 16:45

This is a company than could hold the opportunity indefinitely, certainly could hold until 2000 Ross is ripe for the most profitable concierge residential building. I'd rather see Spire get started on 1,000 units before this one....

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tucy » 07 Jul 2017 07:49

Cord1936 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:I'm a little surprised they aren't going forward with the residential tower. Maybe they will change their minds before too long. Downtown seems ripe for more residential options.

^^^^^^^
With Dallas hitting extremely strong numbers across the board - payroll growth, population growth, absorbing rental units faster than they're being built, number one in single family home construction, number one office leasing market in nation, second in hotel room construction in the nation, etc., etc. - I would not be surprised you are correct and the residential component of this project will start sooner rather than later.


All that is true except perhaps the most relevant item to apartment developers: we are not absorbing rental units faster than they are being built.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tnexster » 07 Jul 2017 15:35

Tucy wrote:All that is true except perhaps the most relevant item to apartment developers: we are not absorbing rental units faster than they are being built.


https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... othing-yet

With more than 50,000 apartments under construction in the D-FW area, industry analysts have been forecasting for over a year that tenants wouldn't be getting smacked as hard with rent rises.

But with net leasing of apartments still outpacing new project openings, apartment owners aren't shy about asking for higher rents.


So now it appears to be both ways. We are not absorbing but yet net leasing outpaces new projects.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tucy » 07 Jul 2017 18:02

It's pretty clear Steve made that statement based on his earlier-reported RealPage 2nd quarter numbers, which, as I mentioned earlier, seemed to have somehow moved most of the 1st quarter's absorption in to the 2nd quarter. Both RealPage's and CBRE's numbers show that we are building apartments faster than they are being rented, hence the concessions that were also mentioned in Steve's article, and the rising vacancy rates.

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Cord1936
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Cord1936 » 07 Jul 2017 19:42

Tucy wrote:Both RealPage's and CBRE's numbers show that we are building apartments faster than they are being rented, hence the concessions that were also mentioned in Steve's article, and the rising vacancy rates.

^^^^^^^
You are incorrect.

Occupancy strengthened between quarters, going from less than 95% at end of 1Q17 to almost 96% at end of 2Q17. The increase in the occupancy rate is in the face of thousands of new apartments entering the market.

Let's use an example that even an elementary math student could understand:

For sake of discussion let's say at end of 1Q17 there were 100,000 total apartments in Dallas at 94.9% occupancy. That equates to 94,900 occupied units with 5,100 vacant units. Simple math.

Let's say at end of 2Q17 there were 10,000 new apartments delivered during the quarter, now making 110,000 total apartments in Dallas at a 95.9% occupancy rate. That equates to 105,490 occupied units with 4,510 vacant units. Again simple math.

You do understand that with an increase in occupancy rate between end of 1Q17 to end of 2Q17 that means greater numbers of units are occupied than vacant, in spite of thousands of new apartments being added to the inventory.

Even in a static growth environment, an increase in occupancy rate reduces vacancies.

Vacancy has NOT increased between 1Q17 and 2Q17 ... it has DECREASED because the occupancy rate INCREASED. They are the exact inverse of each other!

In the simplistic example above 4,510 vacant units at the end of 2Q17 is LESS than the 5,100 vacant units at the end of 1Q17 ... even in the face of 10,000 new apartments being delivered in the second quarter.

Bottom line is that in 2Q17 Dallas is absorbing apartments faster than they are being delivered. End of discussion.

That may not be true in 3Q17, and may not have been true in previous quarters, but for the present time, right here and right now at end of 2Q17, IT IS TRUE.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tnexster » 07 Jul 2017 22:00

^Thank you for that explanation.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tucy » 08 Jul 2017 08:32

Cord1936 wrote:
Tucy wrote:Both RealPage's and CBRE's numbers show that we are building apartments faster than they are being rented, hence the concessions that were also mentioned in Steve's article, and the rising vacancy rates.

^^^^^^^
You are incorrect.

Occupancy strengthened between quarters, going from less than 95% at end of 1Q17 to almost 96% at end of 2Q17. The increase in the occupancy rate is in the face of thousands of new apartments entering the market.


Are your numbers from Real Page as reported by Steve Brown? Those numbers are clearly wrong. As I mentioned above, they clearly registered a whole bunch of 1st quarter absorption as having taken place in the second quarter. Does anyone really think we had [i]negative[i] absorption in the first quarter, as they reported? ... followed by second quarter absorption approximately double the rate of absorption we're used to seeing?

The result of that miscalculation of absorption is an understated 1st quarter occupancy rate. Those RealPage numbers are only useful if you aggregate the 1st and 2nd quarters.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby tamtagon » 08 Jul 2017 10:42

Tucy wrote:The result of that miscalculation of absorption is an understated 1st quarter occupancy rate. Those RealPage numbers are only useful if you aggregate the 1st and 2nd quarters.


Only useful to whom?

From a perspective acknowledging quarterly calculations are frequently revised, the numbers are useful to everyone as a discussion guide but the spot data are not directive. The aggregate is rolling and spans decades.

Quarterly tracking reveals many things, one of the most interesting to me has always been the reaction of developers, contractors when a big force jolts the quarterly reports one way or the other.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tucy » 08 Jul 2017 11:15

tamtagon wrote:
Tucy wrote:The result of that miscalculation of absorption is an understated 1st quarter occupancy rate. Those RealPage numbers are only useful if you aggregate the 1st and 2nd quarters.


Only useful to whom?

From a perspective acknowledging quarterly calculations are frequently revised, the numbers are useful to everyone as a discussion guide but the spot data are not directive. The aggregate is rolling and spans decades.

Quarterly tracking reveals many things, one of the most interesting to me has always been the reaction of developers, contractors when a big force jolts the quarterly reports one way or the other.


To anyone interested in meaningful, that is to say accurate, numbers. RealPage's 1st and 2nd quarter absorption numbers are obviously misstated. Do you actually believe we had negative apartment absorption in the 1st quarter?

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby tamtagon » 08 Jul 2017 12:29

Tucy wrote:To anyone interested in meaningful, that is to say accurate, numbers. RealPage's 1st and 2nd quarter absorption numbers are obviously misstated. Do you actually believe we had negative apartment absorption in the 1st quarter?


I believe I'm not as concerned about a newspaper misstatement as you are. :lol:

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Redblock
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Redblock » 02 Aug 2017 17:22

The first section for a tower crane has been set in the middle of the hotel site.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Redblock » 12 Aug 2017 14:36

This project now has two tower cranes.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby lakewoodhobo » 14 Aug 2017 14:04

Ross Avenue high-rise site hits the market in downtown Dallas
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... own-dallas

Along with what's under construction, there is a proposed high-rise residential site at Ross and Olive Street.

That's what's been listed for sale with Dallas-based Holliday Fenoglio Fowler LP.

"Investors will be purchasing the 18,000-square-foot site on 2000 Ross adjacent to the parking garage," HFF says in marketing materials for the property. "This high profile urban infill location is strategically positioned in the heart of Dallas on 0.4132 acres with flexible zoning allowing multiple uses and no height or setback restrictions.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby ArtVandelay » 14 Aug 2017 15:14

lakewoodhobo wrote:Ross Avenue high-rise site hits the market in downtown Dallas
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... own-dallas

Along with what's under construction, there is a proposed high-rise residential site at Ross and Olive Street.

That's what's been listed for sale with Dallas-based Holliday Fenoglio Fowler LP.

"Investors will be purchasing the 18,000-square-foot site on 2000 Ross adjacent to the parking garage," HFF says in marketing materials for the property. "This high profile urban infill location is strategically positioned in the heart of Dallas on 0.4132 acres with flexible zoning allowing multiple uses and no height or setback restrictions.


Basically - all we are guaranteed right now is a parking garage and street level retail. The residential and hotel are in the "proposed" stage. Am I the only one that feels like they were promoting it as if they were building the parking, hotel and residential??

I bet we don't see the residential or hotel in this cycle.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tnexster » 14 Aug 2017 15:31

ArtVandelay wrote:
lakewoodhobo wrote:Ross Avenue high-rise site hits the market in downtown Dallas
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... own-dallas

Along with what's under construction, there is a proposed high-rise residential site at Ross and Olive Street.

That's what's been listed for sale with Dallas-based Holliday Fenoglio Fowler LP.

"Investors will be purchasing the 18,000-square-foot site on 2000 Ross adjacent to the parking garage," HFF says in marketing materials for the property. "This high profile urban infill location is strategically positioned in the heart of Dallas on 0.4132 acres with flexible zoning allowing multiple uses and no height or setback restrictions.


Basically - all we are guaranteed right now is a parking garage and street level retail. The residential and hotel are in the "proposed" stage. Am I the only one that feels like they were promoting it as if they were building the parking, hotel and residential??

I bet we don't see the residential or hotel in this cycle.


Per the article....

The project includes a new parking garage, retail and hotel at Ross and Harwood Street.

The 2000 Ross mixed-use project that's under construction includes a 200-room, $50 million hotel on top of a 10-story parking garage. There's 25,750 square feet of ground floor retail.

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ArtVandelay
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby ArtVandelay » 14 Aug 2017 15:39

The teaser says hotel is "proposed" that's why I was thinking not actually under construction along with the garage.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby R1070 » 14 Aug 2017 18:58

It's my understanding that the garage, retail and hotel are being built now. There is space for a residential tower at some point. I would love to see a taller residential tower here.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby eburress » 14 Aug 2017 19:22

R1070 wrote:It's my understanding that the garage, retail and hotel are being built now. There is space for a residential tower at some point. I would love to see a taller residential tower here.


That's also my understanding. I hope they don't wait too long to add the residential tower.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby tamtagon » 14 Aug 2017 20:20

I imagine the hotel will be open before the residential component is seriously contemplated.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 14 Aug 2017 22:22

So They're not building the residential tower?.. It's proposed.. but if they sell the lot mentioned in the story..where will they build the proposed tower?..

Or is this another lot...?

Seriously, I feel that Steve Brown's writing is always vague and lacking context...smh

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tucy » 14 Aug 2017 22:38

Interesting.... The HFF marketing information says multiple times that the parking garage is under construction, and multiple times that the hotel is proposed. This would not be the first time Steve Brown has "reported" a building being under construction when it was not.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tnexster » 15 Aug 2017 10:37

Tucy wrote:Interesting.... The HFF marketing information says multiple times that the parking garage is under construction, and multiple times that the hotel is proposed. This would not be the first time Steve Brown has "reported" a building being under construction when it was not.


Going back to a previous DBJ article from several months ago it would seem to back up the parking garage and retail only concept with the other two pieces coming later.

Construction on the initial phase of the development is slated to get underway by the end of the month. The initial phase on the mixed-use development includes the parking garage and retail space. Dallas-based HKS is the master architect. The parking garage will bring the tower's parking ratio to three spaces per 1,000 square feet.


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... j=77606441

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tucy » 15 Aug 2017 10:47

^^ Good find. Looks like we may very well have been led astray by Steve Brown's cheerleading again.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby tamtagon » 15 Aug 2017 11:12

Tucy wrote:^^ Good find. Looks like we may very well have been led astray by Steve Brown's cheerleading again.


well, I think the cheerleading probably goes with the job of 'promoting' what the developer says... Wouldn't be the first time TCrow cawed about the big mixed use project with all the bells and whistles, slipping in as inconspicuously as possible reality.

Mira Mira !!! On this paper here, it's a fancy hotel tower and a fancy apartment tower resting beautifully on a pedestal of wonderfully urban street level shops and sidewalk cafes with a sizable parking garage tucked out of sight.!!!

Now, here it is, a parking garage for Goldman Sachs.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tucy » 15 Aug 2017 11:30

tamtagon wrote:
Tucy wrote:^^ Good find. Looks like we may very well have been led astray by Steve Brown's cheerleading again.


well, I think the cheerleading probably goes with the job of 'promoting' what the developer says...


That's exactly the problem. One would hope that promoting what developers say is not in Steve Brown's job description.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Aug 2017 11:46

All you have to do is look at the marketing for the project it clearly shows only the coming retail space and parking front and center. They are glossed to high heaven and mounted at the construction site. No marketing materials show hotel rooms or Downtown Live Work Play mumbo jumbo being thrown around. Also, remember when the design became more boring. We went from somewhat elegant sleek towers to a more generic looking parking garage with dumbed down basic box towers. They got rid of the detail in the towers because they didn't have a design for them. The first rendering released was the concept rendering while the one we have now shows what the garage will look like with phantom towers for future development. Those designs will be flushed out when ever they actually move forward with those phases. At least we know there will be foundations on the garage for towers, unlike the BofA garage they proposed next to El Centro.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 Aug 2017 11:52

Another bait n switch for a garage.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tnexster » 15 Aug 2017 12:17

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Another bait n switch for a garage.


I am going to be optimistic and hope that isn't true. The fact that they want to sell the land for the residential tower is a signal, of what I am not sure but I hope that works out.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby muncien » 15 Aug 2017 12:31

At least they aren't proposed 'office' towers. The fact that they're 'residential' and 'hotel' seems to make the future a bit more likely.
I expect to see another news release in the future marketing the hotel site for sale as well. We'll see...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Aug 2017 18:16

All it means is the current owner is not interested in developing the residential portion. Not all owners are structured to develop multi-use projects. They may have been trying to locate a residential partner but either could not come to a deal or decided that they would just put the site up for public sale and let the best offer win. Their goal the whole time was getting the parking ratio they need for Trammel Crow tower. The other parts are additional benefits and a residential tower doesn't really benefit the office tenants. A hotel has that potential but not as much a residential tower.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Waldozer » 15 Aug 2017 23:33

With all due respect to Steve Brown, he's a terrible writer and an even worse reporter. He's one of the main reasons I can't bring myself to buy a subscription to DMN. Every time a business/real estate headline starts with "Construction Project kicks off" or one of those godawful corny attention-grabbing intros (e.g. "Foreign investors are taking a big bite out of North Texas real estate!") I want to shoot myself. And his articles are 90% fluff.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby btj301 » 21 Aug 2017 14:41

IMG_4403.JPG
IMG_4403.JPG


Cranes are very tall- makes me expect they will installed to build two towers now, not just a 5 floor parking podium.
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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tucy » 21 Aug 2017 15:52

btj301 wrote:IMG_4403.JPGIMG_4403.JPG

Cranes are very tall- makes me expect they will installed to build two towers now, not just a 5 floor parking podium.


Interesting thought. Except I think cranes are typically installed at the height needed at the time of installation, and then as the project grows in height, they will add height to the cranes.

Perhaps more importantly, it's a 10 floor parking structure, not just 5, so in reality, these cranes look about right for the parking garage project.

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kingpin
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby kingpin » 24 Sep 2017 17:35

9/24/17

ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by Around My City, on Flickr

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 25 Sep 2017 11:04

I pass by this one on the bus 5 days a week so I see it's progressing quickly. Very limited stuff being put below ground level. This is def a case where it's about building a garage above ground as fast as possible. At least we are getting a substantial amount of retail space facing Ross.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 25 Sep 2017 13:40

This part of downtown is just horrible. Garages everywhere.

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R1070
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby R1070 » 25 Sep 2017 18:48

Amazon could fix it up!

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texasstar
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby texasstar » 26 Sep 2017 12:45

I'm so confused. What the heck are they actually building here?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 26 Sep 2017 14:31

texasstar wrote:I'm so confused. What the heck are they actually building here?


A garage w retail

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby joshua.dodd » 26 Sep 2017 18:50

texasstar wrote:I'm so confused. What the heck are they actually building here?


Vertical infill.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby maconahey » 25 Oct 2017 11:41

Image

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kingpin
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby kingpin » 18 Nov 2017 00:50

10/28

ImageUntitled by allen Smith, on Flickr
ImageUntitled by allen Smith, on Flickr
ImageUntitled by allen Smith, on Flickr

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby jsoto3 » 19 Nov 2017 11:06

https://shopcompanies.com/sites/default ... ebsite.pdf

2000 Roos Retail Lease Plan (overall).JPG

2000 Roos Retail Lease Plan (enlarged 1).JPG

2000 Roos Retail Lease Plan (enlarged 2).JPG

2000 Roos Retail Lease Plan (enlarged 3).JPG
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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 19 Nov 2017 11:30

The more i see this project. The more I don't like it. Idk the style is very uninspiring.

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby eburress » 19 Nov 2017 11:43

I love that they're filling an entire block/surface parking lot and that it's not just another parking garage! :)

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Jasimm
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby Jasimm » 19 Nov 2017 12:32

jsoto3 wrote:https://shopcompanies.com/sites/default/files/2000-rossretail-brochure-website.pdf

2000 Roos Retail Lease Plan (overall).JPG
2000 Roos Retail Lease Plan (enlarged 1).JPG
2000 Roos Retail Lease Plan (enlarged 2).JPG
2000 Roos Retail Lease Plan (enlarged 3).JPG


I noticed that they have Royal Blue Grocery listed as a the only tenant so far. Which is a great addition to downtown, but I remember reading a DMNews article (below) that RBG was also confirmed tenant at the Mercantile Building on Main. Would they really be opening two new stores so close together?

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... ing-rounds

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby tamtagon » 19 Nov 2017 12:56

What in the world is going on with Eatzi's? Nothing it seems.

How many CBD locations are priming up for the grocery/deli/take out concept? At least four: West End, Arts District, Farmers Market, Main Street. Arts District and Main Street appear to be taken, so that leaves West End and Farmer's Market. Whatever

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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 19 Nov 2017 19:11

There are two rumors on the Royal Blue Grocery story. The biggest point in the story is that Royal Blue has not confirmed a thing and has stayed somewhat mum on where they are going in Downtown. The Merc location was announced because they were asking for an opinion from the historical board about their exterior concepts on a historical building. It was not a formal proposal for approval so we don't really have confirmation. One rumor is that it will only be at Trammel Crow and the Merc lost out in the negotiations. The other rumor is they will open both and no it's not weird that they would be so close by. Royal Blue isn't like a big grocery store they tend to open like 7-Eleven in places reasonably close by if the market is strong enough. I bet Trammel Crow Towers owners are subsidizing the Ross Avenue location by reduced rent while the Merc location is meant to go after the obvious main street business plus residential that is centralized along Main Street.

The Merc is building out the retail infrastructure needed either way to sign leases so the construction there is not dependent on Royal Blue happening either.

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R1070
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Re: Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

Postby R1070 » 19 Nov 2017 20:10

So this will just be a parking garage with retail and no hotel or apt highrises?


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