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The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Tnexster
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The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Tnexster » 16 Nov 2016 16:57

Drive by here quite a bit so I see the progress they are making. The primary road into The Canyon appears to be complete and landscaped. Section 1B which is to the left of the main road and closest to I-30 is active with what appears to be a four story hotel being constructed which is not in the plan posted online so I am assuming things have changed to some degree which is probably to be expected. No signs of any other retail activity at the moment.

http://www.thecanyoninoakcliff.com/

lakewoodhobo
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby lakewoodhobo » 31 Jul 2017 12:19

Looks like this one is finally on track to start construction on three retail/restaurant buildings along the I-30 frontage road. From the looks of it, two standalone restaurant buildings (one 7700 sf and one 5100 sf) and one 6325 sf multi-tenant building. It's in the CPC docket for August 3rd.

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Tnexster
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Tnexster » 31 Jul 2017 20:55

The hotel is coming along, looks like it may be open fairly soon.

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xen0blue
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby xen0blue » 02 Aug 2017 13:51

Hey, it's Las Colinas in Oak Cliff.

Looks like all those parking lots in 'the concourse' are a huge waste.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 02 Aug 2017 14:11

Large surface parking ....yay

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ebird
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby ebird » 02 Aug 2017 20:39

The folks at city hall simply dont understand urban planning at all, sad to say.

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R1070
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby R1070 » 02 Aug 2017 22:03

Yep. The city thinks we need to have a ton of parking. They are so clueless and it's just sad.

Hopefully future generations will be able to fix the mistakes made by this generation.

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Thymant
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Thymant » 03 Aug 2017 11:13

This development is not connected to other urban areas nor is it close to any DART lines so the parking is necessary but it would have been nice if they included a garage instead but then again that does raise the price tag in what can be considered an unproven market.

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vman
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby vman » 03 Aug 2017 11:35

Anyone recall the tenant list? I know it 's been years, but I seem to recall a Denny's and In & Out Burger.

DPatel304
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby DPatel304 » 03 Aug 2017 11:39

Thymant wrote:This development is not connected to other urban areas nor is it close to any DART lines so the parking is necessary but it would have been nice if they included a garage instead but then again that does raise the price tag in what can be considered an unproven market.


I'm okay with the surface parking in this particular area. Like you said, it's not the most urban location, so this type of development will do for now. Eventually, our urban core will expand and will creep closer to developments like this. That will take decades to happen though, and, when it does, this could be redeveloped into something more urban then.

A garage would have been nicer, but, at the same time, you have to think a few decades from now how useful the garage would be. Self-driving cars might significantly reduce parking demand and, if so, it's much easier to redevelop a surface lot than a parking garage.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby lakewoodhobo » 03 Aug 2017 11:49

The master plan for The Canyon includes mixed-use buildings with structured parking. This particular section and phase (red area labeled "1B") was always meant to be your typical I-30 access road shopping center, for what it's worth.

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vman
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby vman » 21 Aug 2017 14:22

I drove past this development last week and first of all, that hotel is horribly unattractive imo. But more importantly, are we sure work is still being done on this project? The site was horribly overgrown and looked as if no activity has gone on there in a while.

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Dettmann1
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Dettmann1 » 21 Aug 2017 17:32

Work is still being done, they are just moving on the hotel at a snails pace.

FYI - The three outparcels in front of the Residence Inn along Westmoreland and I-30 were approved at Planning Commission on the 3rd. While I'm not sure what they will be, I'd heard that one will be an Olive Garden which the site plan would seem to support (Site plan shows two restaurants and then a multi tenant building, one of the restaurants matches an OG footprint). There were some pretty strong rumors in Oak Cliff that this OG would be open next spring/summer. Given that recent Darden restaurants seem to co-locate near each other and this specific site has an OG looking building sitting on a site with two restaurants, I'd guess the other one will be a Darden Brand as well (Cheddars, Yard House, Longhorn, Seasons 52, etc.). With the demographics and if indeed this is another Darden restaurant, I'd guess Cheddars, but that's a lot of assumptions. Not sure what the other multitenant building would be, but in any case, exciting to see some slow movement.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby lakewoodhobo » 06 Apr 2018 11:14

Looks like Olive Garden and Buffalo Wild Wings confirmed, with Denny’s, Fuzzy’s Taco and Jimmy John’s in negotiations.

https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2018/0 ... liff-soon/

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 06 Apr 2018 13:05

lakewoodhobo wrote:Looks like Olive Garden and Buffalo Wild Wings confirmed, with Denny’s, Fuzzy’s Taco and Jimmy John’s in negotiations.

https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2018/0 ... liff-soon/


Yay....not..

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Waldozer
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Waldozer » 07 Apr 2018 14:26

Hope this doesn’t infringe on local business in oak cliff.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby joshua.dodd » 07 Apr 2018 19:47

Looks suburban as hell. Gross.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Apr 2018 09:32

Everything along I-30 is already suburban so I consider it the logical development pattern. Besides it just means those people who want that type of business/shopping/eating access in Oak Cliff can get it nearby while those who want the Bishop Arts/Jefferson Blvd experience can get it as well. Not everything has to be hip urban unique gluten-free organic restaurants. If we truly want Dallas the city to offer things to all people we have to allow some of the suburban model to exist and I would rather it be here than along Davis. Olive Garden exists and some people want to eat there so I would rather have the tax money here and still have a place for Eno's in the Bishop Arts for people who want to try something even better.

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anon
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby anon » 09 Apr 2018 10:24

Also, this development is much more fitting for the suburban, middle-class Hispanic population around the area than a trendy, $6 juice bar or coffee shop or "luxury" apartments. And hopefully, it'll take some of the traffic from Cockrell Hill.

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The_Overdog
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby The_Overdog » 09 Apr 2018 10:30

Also, this development is much more fitting for the suburban, middle-class Hispanic population around the area than a trendy, $6 juice bar or coffee shop or "luxury" apartments

Oh please. Other than maybe Dennys and Fuzzy Taco and maybe Jimmy Johns, all those places are equally expensive as Bishop Arts. Olive Garden sells sodas for $3, which is literally $0.05 worth of material. It's a bigger ripoff than a $6 juice.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 09 Apr 2018 10:46

anon wrote:Also, this development is much more fitting for the suburban, middle-class Hispanic population around the area than a trendy, $6 juice bar or coffee shop or "luxury" apartments. And hopefully, it'll take some of the traffic from Cockrell Hill.


Totally missing the point. No one cares that an Olive Garden is opening. The problem is the form of the development. The big box style is a step backwards for the city. It promotes bad land usage and really is something that should be addressed.

Look, Applebee's is gonna be Applebee's no matter where they open. But the city has to do better in having a say in what type of Developments it wants to pursue. This doesn't mean there can't be chain restaurants, it means the city won't allow these big box style Developments to be so pervasive.

There's OTBs, chilli's, TGIFs in Dallas that are in urban in nature. Why can't we have more of that? The type of Development being brought here with this project is literally found in every soulless place across America.

Dallas needs better land usage rules..
Cities who manage land use are better off in the long run.

This is just a cheap Development. Let's not glorify it.

Also Hispanic people don't go to Olive garden..FACTS! It's overpriced Chef Boyardee.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Apr 2018 14:22

Believe me, I get it. You have to be realistic though you are in a sunbelt city where 90% of residents are comfortable and happy with big box wide open suburban development. You have to be responsive to what developers, banks, and citizens want and will support. Land next to a highway in an area like this you cant hold hostage for some dreamboat West Village part deux. You can not wait for the next Jerry Jones Cowboys HQ development for decades that may never come. Believe me, I wish you could.

City staff and city council members are pushed to create jobs and growth in the tax base. City Hall has to do what the voters want no matter what their professional schooling taught them. Go to city planning school and you will be taught about urban and suburban and how done right urban is better in many ways but you are also taught that city government is not some top-down run organization where Daddy knows best and can always tell everyone how they can develop their land. There are limits to regulations, zoning and what city staff can get past voters without total rebellion. We are a democracy and you cant force an urban lifestyle on everyone and every piece of land in the city.

I am a devote to urban planning that is walkable, transit-oriented, mixed-use etc but I can not force my parents to go against what they are raised on. You can only re-educate and convince people so far. Most of the population will fight you at every tooth a nail claiming you are destroying the American dream blah blah blah. At the end of the day, city laws are only as strong as there are enough people willing to follow them.

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tamtagon
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby tamtagon » 09 Apr 2018 14:39

It's not Bishop Arts, but it's certainly an important sign of achievement for what used to be no-man's land for these mundane restaurants. It's on the highway and the area is just beginning to thaw... I wouldn't expect stewards of the neighborhood to fret over the suburban land use -- the East Dallas fight over the abdominal Sam's Club layout just barely edged out a design victory. By the time this shopping center is on-tap for a renovation, perhaps the neighborhood will be ready for better programming. Too bad that's the way of it; this is the truth of "the cycle" that gets talked about every so often and will be the truth of "the cycle" for a couple or more generations, that it -- it's not whether too much or too little is being built, but how it's being built where and when is it time to rebuild the stuff from the previous decades.

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The_Overdog
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby The_Overdog » 09 Apr 2018 14:50

The problem is the form of the development.

Agree with that, but this is the comment I was referring to:

Also, this development is much more fitting for the suburban, middle-class Hispanic population around the area than a trendy, $6 juice bar or coffee shop or "luxury" apartments.


Which defines Olive Garden as an affordable option counter to a $6 juice bar which is generally located near "luxury apartments". My point is it is not.

sunbelt city where 90% of residents are comfortable and happy with big box wide open suburban development.

80% of people really don't care one way or another, until it turns into something closer to LA or NYC. The other 10% located in suburbia don't like it but have to live near their jobs and 10% really care, love suburbia, and hate downtown. So the 10% is who Dallas is catering to. I've always found that line of reasoning to be kinda funny. Never can find anybody that likes urban areas even though they cost way more on a sq ft basis. Yogi Berra would be so proud.

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vman
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby vman » 10 Apr 2018 07:04

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Also Hispanic people don't go to Olive garden..FACTS! It's overpriced Chef Boyardee.

You've obviously never been to the Olive Garden off 183 in Irving.

But let's be real....Dallas is never going to be an "urban" city in regards to development. We will get pockets of urban style developments here and there, but most of the city will always be suburban in nature. And although the Bishop Arts area is becoming (what Dallas considers) an urban neighborhood, I don't think developers see this end of Oak Cliff feasible for urban style development. The demographics are totally different in this area and developers are catering to that demo.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby lakewoodhobo » 10 Apr 2018 09:28

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Also Hispanic people don't go to Olive garden..FACTS! It's overpriced Chef Boyardee.


Probably right about the quality, but I had to laugh because the last place I remember seeing an Olive Garden was at a busy mall in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

This shopping center isn't for Oak Cliff anyway. It's for people traveling from Dallas to Arlington or Fort Worth to Dallas. Hopefully it provides enough jobs for a few local kids to help pay for school.

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tamtagon
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby tamtagon » 10 Apr 2018 10:46

Frankly, the only concern I have regarding the typical Dallas suburban expansion along I-30 between Kessler and South Side Fort Worth is that it might stop. Grand Prairie and Arlington are such regressive, ignorant hold outs resisting public transportation integration (ironic clamoring for a high speed rail station to boot) despite and in spite of the well know symbiosis between passenger train service and suburban entertainment destinations.

When Dart and Trinity Metro (The T) begin the process to link downtowns via Arlington and Grand Prairie, then higher functioning pedestrian design of a place like The Canyon could matter.

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Matt777
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Matt777 » 10 Apr 2018 11:50

Wish they could have at least gone with a town center/outdoor lifestyle center concept like La Cantera in San Antonio. Still easily accessible for people in automobiles but with a more pleasing layout and design.

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VectorWega
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby VectorWega » 26 Apr 2018 14:40

lakewoodhobo wrote:This shopping center isn't for Oak Cliff anyway. It's for people traveling from Dallas to Arlington or Fort Worth to Dallas. Hopefully it provides enough jobs for a few local kids to help pay for school.


I don't know why you would say that. Have you ever been to the nearby Walmart? The place is bananas. This is where everyone from West Oak Cliff and West Dallas goes to shop. Both areas are growing quite a bit so they need more retail. This is also close to a lot of blue collar workers.

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VectorWega
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby VectorWega » 26 Apr 2018 14:46

vman wrote:I drove past this development last week and first of all, that hotel is horribly unattractive imo. But more importantly, are we sure work is still being done on this project? The site was horribly overgrown and looked as if no activity has gone on there in a while.


I'm not sure what you expect out of a 2 star hotel. It's no worse looking than the three hotels that have opened on Cockrell Hill and I-30 in recent years, nor any worse than the 2 and 3 star hotels that have opened up on I-35 in recent years.

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VectorWega
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby VectorWega » 26 Apr 2018 14:49

R1070 wrote:Yep. The city thinks we need to have a ton of parking. They are so clueless and it's just sad.

Hopefully future generations will be able to fix the mistakes made by this generation.


This area needs a lot of parking. Look at how packed the Walmart gets on I-30 and Cockrell hill. Parking at Sylvan 30 is becoming a problem and parking in Bishop Arts has been a major issue for years.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 26 Apr 2018 16:32

VectorWega wrote:
R1070 wrote:Yep. The city thinks we need to have a ton of parking. They are so clueless and it's just sad.

Hopefully future generations will be able to fix the mistakes made by this generation.


This area needs a lot of parking. Look at how packed the Walmart gets on I-30 and Cockrell hill. Parking at Sylvan 30 is becoming a problem and parking in Bishop Arts has been a major issue for years.


Less parking more transit.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby lakewoodhobo » 26 Apr 2018 16:36

VectorWega wrote:I don't know why you would say that. Have you ever been to the nearby Walmart? The place is bananas. This is where everyone from West Oak Cliff and West Dallas goes to shop. Both areas are growing quite a bit so they need more retail. This is also close to a lot of blue collar workers.


My comment was poorly worded. I have no doubt that people from Oak Cliff will shop at the Canyon, but like Pinnacle Park this shopping center depends on interstate traffic and will benefit greatly from it.

A lot of us further south are waiting patiently for Wynnewood Village to break ground.

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VectorWega
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby VectorWega » 26 Apr 2018 19:27

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
VectorWega wrote:
R1070 wrote:Yep. The city thinks we need to have a ton of parking. They are so clueless and it's just sad.

Hopefully future generations will be able to fix the mistakes made by this generation.


This area needs a lot of parking. Look at how packed the Walmart gets on I-30 and Cockrell hill. Parking at Sylvan 30 is becoming a problem and parking in Bishop Arts has been a major issue for years.


Less parking more transit.


I understand what the poster was saying. It's the same thing people were saying on these forums 10 years ago and it's the same thing they'll be saying 10 years from now but it's not grounded in reality whatsoever. Nobody is interested in jumping on some ghetto public transit in 100 degree heat just to go eat at Olive Garden. DFW is and always will be driver-centric. I'm sure there are trends towards using more ride sharing apps, but if you really want to do without a car and just use public transit, bikes, and legs to get around then you'll probably want to be closer to the city core because otherwise you are SOL.

BTW, I drove by this development today. The restaurants aren't even open yet and gang bangers have already tagged the retaining walls with graffiti. I'm sure it would be pretty awesome for developers to bring a high end development like The Shops at La Cantera to the hood, but really we should be thankful they are willing to develop anything at all.

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dallaz
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby dallaz » 26 Apr 2018 20:06

VectorWega wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
VectorWega wrote:
This area needs a lot of parking. Look at how packed the Walmart gets on I-30 and Cockrell hill. Parking at Sylvan 30 is becoming a problem and parking in Bishop Arts has been a major issue for years.


Less parking more transit.


I understand what the poster was saying. It's the same thing people were saying on these forums 10 years ago and it's the same thing they'll be saying 10 years from now but it's not grounded in reality whatsoever. Nobody is interested in jumping on some ghetto public transit in 100 degree heat just to go eat at Olive Garden. DFW is and always will be driver-centric. I'm sure there are trends towards using more ride sharing apps, but if you really want to do without a car and just use public transit, bikes, and legs to get around then you'll probably want to be closer to the city core because otherwise you are SOL.

BTW, I drove by this development today. The restaurants aren't even open yet and gang bangers have already tagged the retaining walls with graffiti. I'm sure it would be pretty awesome for developers to bring a high end development like The Shops at La Cantera to the hood, but really we should be thankful they are willing to develop anything at all.
I seen that a couple of days ago. I don’t understand the point of tagging. Why would anyone want to deface their community?

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tanzoak
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby tanzoak » 27 Apr 2018 00:12

VectorWega wrote:Nobody is interested in jumping on some ghetto public transit in 100 degree heat just to go eat at Olive Garden. The restaurants aren't even open yet and gang bangers have already tagged the retaining walls with graffiti. I'm sure it would be pretty awesome for developers to bring a high end development like The Shops at La Cantera to the hood, but really we should be thankful they are willing to develop anything at all.


Gang bangers already milling about, and we don't want the rest of the hood coming on their ghetto public transportation.. sounds like too many blacks are nearby, and you know what happens what happens with that element and their hoodlums.. well, there goes the neighborhood. Don't get all mad at me libs, I'm just telling it like it is, it's not my fault if the blacks can't have nice things.

Cool story, bro.

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muncien
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby muncien » 27 Apr 2018 08:34

I seen that a couple of days ago. I don’t understand the point of tagging. Why would anyone want to deface their community?


I didn't know tagging was a 'thing' anymore. Way back in my Los Angeles days, you couldn't go a block without seeing NEW graffiti. I was absolutely amazed at the lack of graffiti when I moved to Texas. Obviously, the neighborhood makes a difference, but no doubt it is not near the problem here as it is in other places.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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tamtagon
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby tamtagon » 27 Apr 2018 08:45

It's not defacing their community, it's decorating their community. Different, not the same. I know it's not always sweet & innocent like that, but graffiti is art, gang tags not so much....

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HerbIsHere
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby HerbIsHere » 09 May 2018 11:46

lakewoodhobo wrote:Looks like Olive Garden and Buffalo Wild Wings confirmed, with Denny’s, Fuzzy’s Taco and Jimmy John’s in negotiations.

https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2018/0 ... liff-soon/


I noticed In N Out was absent from the companies they were in negotiations with and I hope that don't mean what I think it does cause I don't wanna go all the way to North Dallas just from some of the best burgers :(

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HerbIsHere
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby HerbIsHere » 09 May 2018 11:48

Also Olive Garden looking to be complete already

Suppose it opens within the month

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R1070
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby R1070 » 09 May 2018 18:30

In N Out is building by Love Field at Mockingbird and Maple as well.

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HerbIsHere
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby HerbIsHere » 10 May 2018 03:44

R1070 wrote:In N Out is building by Love Field at Mockingbird and Maple as well.


Good to know I guess...

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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 May 2018 08:25

I'll stay with the true best burger in Texas and the country for that matter, Whataburger. My interest in In-N-Out wore off after the first 6 months of them being new to the neighborhood. This does seem like a good spot for In-N-Out though.

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HerbIsHere
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby HerbIsHere » 10 May 2018 08:28

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I'll stay with the true best burger in Texas and the country for that matter, Whataburger. My interest in In-N-Out wore off after the first 6 months of them being new to the neighborhood. This does seem like a good spot for In-N-Out though.


Definitely

Like one of the users said, this area will be mainly for those traveling, but it's about time Oak Cliff get something like In N Out

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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 May 2018 08:32

At least Dallas captures a bit more of the back and fourth Arlington/Fort Worth tax money with whats in this development.

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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby lakewoodhobo » 10 May 2018 10:08

I still have no idea why there aren't any Dunkin Donuts in Dallas. There was something about Jerry Jones owning the franchise rights here for years but that ended in 2016.

Anyway, that would be a good chain to put here along with In-N-Out since they're less ubiquitous in the city core.

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HerbIsHere
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby HerbIsHere » 10 May 2018 11:47

lakewoodhobo wrote:I still have no idea why there aren't any Dunkin Donuts in Dallas. There was something about Jerry Jones owning the franchise rights here for years but that ended in 2016.

Anyway, that would be a good chain to put here along with In-N-Out since they're less ubiquitous in the city core.


I think they have Dunkin Donuts and Baskin Robins joint restaurants in Plano and Cedar Hill

Anyways I'm hoping for stores like Whole Foods or Sprouts tbh

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HerbIsHere
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby HerbIsHere » 10 May 2018 11:50

Also took pictures of progress as of today

I'll edit them for quality later on

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HerbIsHere
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby HerbIsHere » 10 May 2018 12:20

20180510_121516.jpg


20180510_121435.jpg


Construction men working on Olive Garden's roof while not much is being done on the black building (which I assume will be Buffalo Wild Wings)
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HerbIsHere
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Re: The Canyon In Oak Cliff

Postby HerbIsHere » 11 May 2018 20:20

Since I'm on the forums...

I've been wondering rather or not the soon to be car wash by the Valero will be a part of The Canyon cause plans show that the end of The Canyon will be attached to the Valero and the car wash tho they haven't even started on it from what I can see...


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