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North Dallas: Midtown

Tnexster
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 17 Jul 2017 15:26

Tour of a dinosaur carcass: A last walk through Valley View Mall

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... -view-mall

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exelone31
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby exelone31 » 28 Sep 2017 14:04

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/09/28/valley-view-mall-supposed-gone-now-remains-zombieland

Sounds like this one is back on hold for the foreseeable future. I thought it was odd that demolition of the garage stopped just a week or two after the "groundbreaking" ceremony. Does anyone happen to know if the tenants have been kicked out of what's left of the mall?

cowboyeagle05
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 Sep 2017 10:04

I read that article this morning. Its a very big slap in the face and will scare Amazon away from their proposal. Amazon probably won't want to get involved in whatever is holding things up. Sounds like Beck was just too slow on getting their stuff in motion and the deadlines stayed exactly where they were. We have seen developers run back to the city in the past and always get deadlines moved but it sounds like everyone got frustrated and refused to work together.

This is why these mega projects are so hard. It requires a lot of moving parts and people who can chase down things when they come up or when balls get dropped by someone else. It is why companies like KDC are so well run. That company has organized multiple huge building projects all over DFW within just the last 5 years so I would bet on any Amazon proposal KDC is a part of.

Beck may lose out on this one and this will become one of those it could have been great. If they don't get things back on track it will probably just get divided up and sold in pieces without as tight of a vision. Like what happened when Victory Park fell apart and Hillwood just started selling off the property without the vision.

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Cord1936
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Cord1936 » 29 Nov 2017 12:47

Not sure if this is part of the Midtown development or not but it is next to the Dallas Galleria in the immediate area.

Image
PegasusAblon has a $51M mixed-use property planned at 13675 Noel Road, next to the Galleria.

$51M Project From Pegasus Ablon Planned Next To The Galleria
by Jeremiah Jensen, November 29, 2017 Bisnow Dallas

The company filed 17 building permits on Nov. 15, and according to Buildzoom.com, it is building six stories of retail and multifamily space as well as multilevel parking and a roof deck valued at $433K.

Jared White, presumably of GFF Architects, is the applicant listed on the permits, and the contractor listed is Andres Construction Services.

Andres Construction Services and PegasusAblon declined to comment on the development, so as of yet, its timeline is unknown, and no renderings were available.

Article: https://www.bisnow.com/dallas-ft-worth/news/construction-development/51m-project-from-pegasus-ablon-planned-next-to-the-galleria-82040?be=dallasdecodence%40aol.com&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wed-29-nov-2017-000000-0500_dallas-fort-worth-re

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The_Overdog
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby The_Overdog » 29 Nov 2017 14:10

According to Google Maps, this location (13675 Noel Road) is north of The Galleria, is mostly already developed with a parking garage, Toy R Us, Dicks Sporting Goods, a parking lot, and a multi-story office looking buildings, and strip mall with a Starbucks across from The Galleria. It is across Alpha Road, which is a multi-lane collector so there won't be much connectivity to Midtown.
If I had to guess, if they are building anything, it would be on the empty lot right next to the office building at 13675 Noel Road.


Not sure why they'd use a stock photo of The Galleria instead of the actual building at the address. This would not be considered part of Midtown, which is to the east of The Galleria. But close enough for the thread.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 Nov 2017 14:15

Just adds to the continuing density the area is seeing. There seems to be some solid action from developers around the Galleria despite Midtown's slow progress. Many open sites are being swooped up for multi-family with ground floor retail spaces so I am certainly not complaining.

DPatel304
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby DPatel304 » 29 Nov 2017 14:44

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Just adds to the continuing density the area is seeing. There seems to be some solid action from developers around the Galleria despite Midtown's slow progress. Many open sites are being swooped up for multi-family with ground floor retail spaces so I am certainly not complaining.


That's definitely a good kind of unusual. Generally you wouldn't see action on adjacent plots of land until the initial development has completed and see some sort of success.

Midtown is different than a lot of the other suburban/urban areas, though, as it's in a very good location, so I think people realize its potential.

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willyk
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby willyk » 29 Nov 2017 23:26

Becks are in way, way, way over their heads. The need to sell or give this over to a partner.

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Thymant
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Thymant » 30 Nov 2017 03:13

AC Hotel and Modera near the Galleria from Friday

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A.C. Hotel Galleria by Thymant, on Flickr

Image
Modera near the Galleria/ A.C. Hotel by Thymant, on Flickr

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NdoorTX
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby NdoorTX » 30 Nov 2017 09:27

The AC looks great! Love that quasi Mid Century facade.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 30 Nov 2017 09:34

It's too bad it could fail hard if they cant get the mall torn down and move forward. I don't think this hotel would be able to hold out for a generation like the W Hotel did when Victory Park tripped and fell the first time.

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Thymant
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Thymant » 30 Nov 2017 09:44

cowboyeagle05 wrote:It's too bad it could fail hard if they cant get the mall torn down and move forward. I don't think this hotel would be able to hold out for a generation like the W Hotel did when Victory Park tripped and fell the first time.


I think it will do just fine, it's right next to the galleria, other hotels, offices, and tons and businesses that already exist. This development is not hinged on midtown's masterplan completion and I'm sure that the developers were well aware that it could take many years for things to come together.

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Matt777
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Matt777 » 30 Nov 2017 11:53

NdoorTX wrote:The AC looks great! Love that quasi Mid Century facade.


I agree. Too bad the Modera apartments look like crap! What a bland design. Looks like an accountant drew a design on a paper napkin and handed it off to the builders. Shame.

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby ContriveDallasite » 01 Dec 2017 04:33

Matt777 wrote:
NdoorTX wrote:The AC looks great! Love that quasi Mid Century facade.


I agree. Too bad the Modera apartments look like crap! What a bland design. Looks like an accountant drew a design on a paper napkin and handed it off to the builders. Shame.


Seems like Modera has actually had some cool designs in other cities. It's a shame how much of these apartments have gone up in Dallas the last few years.

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muncien
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby muncien » 04 Dec 2017 11:05

The_Overdog wrote:According to Google Maps, this location (13675 Noel Road) is north of The Galleria, is mostly already developed with a parking garage, Toy R Us, Dicks Sporting Goods, a parking lot, and a multi-story office looking buildings, and strip mall with a Starbucks across from The Galleria. It is across Alpha Road, which is a multi-lane collector so there won't be much connectivity to Midtown.
If I had to guess, if they are building anything, it would be on the empty lot right next to the office building at 13675 Noel Road.


Not sure why they'd use a stock photo of The Galleria instead of the actual building at the address. This would not be considered part of Midtown, which is to the east of The Galleria. But close enough for the thread.


I had posted a rendering a while back about a mixed use development for this exact piece of land. Not sure I can dig it up again. It was some time ago, so the architect may have changed, but it certainly matches the description provided. I'll see what I can find.

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tamtagon
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby tamtagon » 04 Dec 2017 11:30

With all the angst and frustration over The Cotton Belt, all the potential for Galleria-Midtown, and the Plano/Frisco employment center & traffic growth, it's almost surprising there's no official talk (outside the forum) about a passenger train route from the $5 Billion Mile-Legacy-Addison Airport@Cotton Belt-Galleria-Midtown Dallas-Medical City-Forest Lane Red/Blue.

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dd_dweller
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby dd_dweller » 04 Dec 2017 12:27

I haven't heard anything about the Lifetime project anymore. Is this still happening or has this been killed?

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NdoorTX
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby NdoorTX » 04 Dec 2017 22:08

Thank goodness KDC has gotten on this bandwagon. Now I feel like this will take off!

High-rise mixed-use project will replace old Sears store at Dallas' Valley View
Steve Brown, Real Estate Editor


A New York real estate investor is teaming up with Dallas developer KDC to build up to 1 million square feet of office space as part of a mixed-use project in Far North Dallas.
The planned development by Seritage Growth Properties and KDC is part of the 430-acre Dallas Midtown district along the north side of LBJ Freeway.
The 23-acre development will include two office towers, retail, a cinema and more on the site of the closed Sears store at the old Valley View mall.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... alley-view

Image

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willyk
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby willyk » 05 Dec 2017 02:48

Is this part of the property that the Becks own, or is the site owned by Sears? The article does not say whether the partners purchased the site of if the landowner is part of the deal. What I am trying to figure out is whether the Becks and their plans are still in the mix, or have they been bought out.

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NdoorTX
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby NdoorTX » 05 Dec 2017 08:44

So referring back to images I saved from a previous DMN article, this does not appear to acreage tied to Beck's holdings. It's the area already owned by Seritage- now in partnership with KDC. Hopefully this spurs Beck.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 05 Dec 2017 09:53

I believe this is the corner of Preston and 635 marked as a future phase on the Beck Midtown development proposals. Beck doesn't own it but if the land is as valuable as people keep saying it is this is just a good reminder of why consolidating into one single developer is bad and have a few large chunks broken off like this is good news.

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exelone31
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby exelone31 » 05 Dec 2017 12:35

I'm curious what this means for the demolition of the rest of the mall. The last I recall reading (and what I see everyday driving by) is that demolition has halted on the mall.

Would they simply knock off the Sears piece and leave gaping holes on two sides of Valley View?

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby ContriveDallasite » 06 Dec 2017 14:34

I'm ignorant and don't live in Dallas anymore, but can someone explain the reasoning in delaying the demo of the entire mall. Isn't it cheaper to front the demolition costs than to cover the property taxes of the mall until a 1/1,000 deal gets inked?

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muncien
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby muncien » 06 Dec 2017 16:20

ContriveDallasite wrote:I'm ignorant and don't live in Dallas anymore, but can someone explain the reasoning in delaying the demo of the entire mall. Isn't it cheaper to front the demolition costs than to cover the property taxes of the mall until a 1/1,000 deal gets inked?


I think it's historic. ;)

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The_Overdog
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby The_Overdog » 06 Dec 2017 16:33

Isn't it cheaper to front the demolition costs than to cover the property taxes of the mall until a 1/1,000 deal gets inked?


According to DCAD of the property taxes for the property at 13331 Preston Road with a description of Valley View Shopping Center and a size of 2.29 acres, the answer is actually "no". The appraised value is $1.9m, taxes are $55k, and demo would probably cost more than that.

DCAD:
http://www.dallascad.org/AcctDetailCom. ... 1077500000
Tax Document:
http://www.dallascad.org/SPLITPDF/00000 ... 000000.PDF

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Tucy
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tucy » 06 Dec 2017 16:47

In fact, completing the demolition might raise the appraised value and thus increase the taxes.

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby ContriveDallasite » 07 Dec 2017 07:59

Tucy wrote:In fact, completing the demolition might raise the appraised value and thus increase the taxes.


Contradictory logic :lol: But thanks for the insight!

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The_Overdog
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby The_Overdog » 07 Dec 2017 09:57

Contradictory logic :lol: But thanks for the insight!


The value of the Valley View mall building is $0 according to DCAD, and probably only because it can't be a negative value. Yeah, $0 improvement value for a huge mostly functional building. Commercial property assessment is totally fair I tell you.

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tamtagon
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby tamtagon » 07 Dec 2017 10:08

Assessing and managing assessments in such a way, and it appears to be the standard operating procedure, is harmful to a growing city. Complicated because so many hands try to hold the wheel and drive, but the neighborhoods hosting situations like this suffer through the directionless course.

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Tucy
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tucy » 07 Dec 2017 12:05

The_Overdog wrote:
Contradictory logic :lol: But thanks for the insight!


The value of the Valley View mall building is $0 according to DCAD, and probably only because it can't be a negative value. Yeah, $0 improvement value for a huge mostly functional building. Commercial property assessment is totally fair I tell you.


It is completely fair, at least in this case. The assessment merely reflects the reality that the land is worth more without the (functionally obsolete) building than it is with it.

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The_Overdog
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby The_Overdog » 07 Dec 2017 12:45

The assessment merely reflects the reality that the land is worth more without the (functionally obsolete) building than it is with it.


I completely agree that the land is worth more than the building, but those are separate categories on the assessment, and the assessment doesn't make any assumptions or recommendations about the highest or best use for the land. Also my own property, older than Valley View Mall, is not valued at $0 for the structure nor is the empty Wal-Mart down the street, even though the land the empty-for-15-years Wal-Mart is on is valued at more (way more) than the land under Valley View mall.

That is the unfair part.

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exelone31
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby exelone31 » 07 Dec 2017 12:59

Just out of curiosity, are there any penalties that are assessed to property owners for leaving half-demolished carcasses of buildings sitting on the side of the road?

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Tucy
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tucy » 07 Dec 2017 14:59

The_Overdog wrote:
The assessment merely reflects the reality that the land is worth more without the (functionally obsolete) building than it is with it.


I completely agree that the land is worth more than the building, but those are separate categories on the assessment, and the assessment doesn't make any assumptions or recommendations about the highest or best use for the land. Also my own property, older than Valley View Mall, is not valued at $0 for the structure nor is the empty Wal-Mart down the street, even though the land the empty-for-15-years Wal-Mart is on is valued at more (way more) than the land under Valley View mall.

That is the unfair part.


It's not just that the land is worth more than the building; the building adds zero value to the property (and likely detracts from the value, but the appraisers don't show negative values).
The assessment evaluates market price. That implicitly takes into account highest and best use. I know the land and improvements are separate categories. So what? The zero appraisal on the improvements tells us the improvements are functionally obsolete. And the fact that the owners plan to demolish all of the buildings strongly suggests the appraisal is correct on that point. Still not sure what exactly is the unfair part about any of that.

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The_Overdog
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby The_Overdog » 08 Dec 2017 12:08

The zero appraisal on the improvements tells us the improvements are functionally obsolete. And the fact that the owners plan to demolish all of the buildings strongly suggests the appraisal is correct on that point. Still not sure what exactly is the unfair part about any of that.


Valley View is not empty, it may be functionally obsolete but it is still open and sales are still occurring there. https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... /#image-51

Therefore it's current value as retail is not zero and the fact that they *plan to demolish it* is totally irrelevant.
Last edited by The_Overdog on 08 Dec 2017 12:10, edited 1 time in total.

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The_Overdog
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby The_Overdog » 08 Dec 2017 12:09

Just out of curiosity, are there any penalties that are assessed to property owners for leaving half-demolished carcasses of buildings sitting on the side of the road?


Any penalties would be assessed by code enforcement.

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Tucy
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tucy » 08 Dec 2017 17:55

The_Overdog wrote:
The zero appraisal on the improvements tells us the improvements are functionally obsolete. And the fact that the owners plan to demolish all of the buildings strongly suggests the appraisal is correct on that point. Still not sure what exactly is the unfair part about any of that.


Valley View is not empty, it may be functionally obsolete but it is still open and sales are still occurring there. https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... /#image-51

Therefore it's current value as retail is not zero and the fact that they *plan to demolish it* is totally irrelevant.


You have still shown us nothing that is unfair about the appraisal system or this appraisal. It seems you don't understand how appraisals are done.

The fact that Valley View is not completely empty tells us nothing. There are countless buildings all over the metroplex, state and country, including houses, that generate some rental income, but add nothing to the market value of the property. That is the situation here. The total value of the property is what it is. That value has to be allocated between the land and the improvements. It has to be allocated to the land first. It would make no sense to do the appraisals any other way. If the total property value is equal to the value of comparable vacant land, would you propose that they allocate a smaller amount to the land so that some amount could be added to the improvements? Consider the result: If then the improvements were demolished, you'd be left with land that has an appraised value lower than its market value. THAT would be an unfair system.

The fact that they plan to demolish the improvements is not dispositive, but it is hardly irrelevant to our discussion. It is direct and rather strong evidence that the appraisers evaluation of zero market value for the improvements is spot on.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 09 Dec 2017 17:46

Back in the '80s I handled some bank REO assets in west Texas that had negative appraised values. You would have to spend money on environment remediation and/or demolition before you could even give the property away for free.

I recall once getting a call from the Fire Chief in Floydada, texas to to let me know that an old gas station we handled had burned down. He half-joked that it property increased the value of the property.

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tamtagon
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby tamtagon » 12 Dec 2017 19:06

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Back in the '80s I handled some bank REO assets in west Texas that had negative appraised values. You would have to spend money on environment remediation and/or demolition before you could even give the property away for free.

I recall once getting a call from the Fire Chief in Floydada, texas to to let me know that an old gas station we handled had burned down. He half-joked that it property increased the value of the property.


One time I toured a meat packing plant in Floydada.

Tnexster
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 12 Dec 2017 22:08

Valley View Center — and the plan to revive the area — is in shambles

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... e-shambles

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Brettoj
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Brettoj » 12 Dec 2017 22:24

Tnexster wrote:Valley View Center — and the plan to revive the area — is in shambles

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... e-shambles


So sad to watch. The Beck's need to sell to someone who has the ability to execute. They have shown they are inept to pull this one off.

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exelone31
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby exelone31 » 13 Dec 2017 11:16

Brettoj wrote:
Tnexster wrote:Valley View Center — and the plan to revive the area — is in shambles

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... e-shambles


So sad to watch. The Beck's need to sell to someone who has the ability to execute. They have shown they are inept to pull this one off.


Agree. It seems like Beck's portion of land he actually controls is smaller and smaller than I initially thought, yet he seems to wield the ability of willing developers to actually get anything done. I can't believe they held a groundbreaking a couple months ago, what a boondoggle.


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