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Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 12 Oct 2017 10:52

The problem with that news is that Amazon wants something today not 10 years from now. Any promise of mass transit infusion of cash from the government tends to be very dependent on a lengthy process. It's always easy for any state and city politicians to promise "We will build trains everywhere, We will find the funds!" it's quite another to already have those plans in motion. Dallas also promised a park in the Trinity River Floodway back in 1998 when a bond election supposedly funded the project. We see how that turned out... Amazon will be more interested in what a city and state have already funded as a real indicator of future transit funding. Headline grandstanding is worth wishes and butterfly kisses and not much else.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 12 Oct 2017 12:14

cowboyeagle05 wrote:The problem with that news is that Amazon wants something today not 10 years from now. Any promise of mass transit infusion of cash from the government tends to be very dependent on a lengthy process. It's always easy for any state and city politicians to promise "We will build trains everywhere, We will find the funds!" it's quite another to already have those plans in motion. Dallas also promised a park in the Trinity River Floodway back in 1998 when a bond election supposedly funded the project. We see how that turned out... Amazon will be more interested in what a city and state have already funded as a real indicator of future transit funding. Headline grandstanding is worth wishes and butterfly kisses and not much else.


I was thinking the exact same thing... Transit proposals will not fit the requirement. You may be able to get away with previously 'deferred' stations being built out along an existing transit line, but even that may be a stretch when you have so many potential sites that ALREADY meet the requirement. I have a feeling anything with 'proposed' or 'potential' services will fall down the charts.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 12 Oct 2017 12:29

sure, but it does show willingness on the part of the State, in addition to city and county.

I know DFW always ranks high on traffic congestion issues, but The Atl is most definitely soul-grindingly worse. Many times, I wondered what sort of identifier and correlation exists between high ranking congestion and highways criss-crossing all over the place --- specifically why this is not labeled in a place like DFW with an over abundance of highways as compared to Atlanta with the same highways its had from 20 years.

Anyway, the promise of additional rail service is not entirely silly since HQ2 has a ten year build. In the case of Dallas, D2 can be tweaked based on a corporate decision.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 13 Oct 2017 00:20

tamtagon wrote:sure, but it does show willingness on the part of the State, in addition to city and county.

I know DFW always ranks high on traffic congestion issues, but The Atl is most definitely soul-grindingly worse. Many times, I wondered what sort of identifier and correlation exists between high ranking congestion and highways criss-crossing all over the place --- specifically why this is not labeled in a place like DFW with an over abundance of highways as compared to Atlanta with the same highways its had from 20 years.

Anyway, the promise of additional rail service is not entirely silly since HQ2 has a ten year build. In the case of Dallas, D2 can be tweaked based on a corporate decision.


To me D2 is still very much in the air in terms of when it will be built. Also Amazon probably knows about DART's crappy bus system. Atlanta has lots of great things to offer. Is it better than Dallas in terms of what Amazon is looking for? IDK, but I will say this. The city of Atlanta has had some nice relocations within the city, Mercedes,GE
And Honeywell in their midtown area.

They know how to get the relocations IN the city. That's something I believe Dallas struggles with. The transit grandstanding is better than no Transit grandstanding I'd say. At least they're trying to show something on the transit front. What's Dallas doing here?

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 13 Oct 2017 05:55

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:... Atlanta has lots of great things to offer. Is it better than Dallas in terms of what Amazon is looking for? IDK, but I will say this. The city of Atlanta has had some nice relocations within the city, Mercedes,GE And Honeywell in their midtown area.


And Equifax!!! doh

I haven't lived within MARTA service area in a decade, but unless a lots changed since then, riding a bus in Atlanta sucks.

This week's marijuana decriminalization is probably the biggest advantage in the quest for HQ2 Atlanta has over Dallas.

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eburress
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 13 Oct 2017 06:15

I don't think I've seen this mentioned before (sorry if someone's already posted) but this outlines Victory's proposal for an "Amazon Urban Village."

Image

The buildings seem kinda spread out but I like how this incorporates a number of the projects everyone has talked about for years (Victory Tower, Perot's "signature" tower, etc).

http://dallas.towers.net/2017/10/04/vic ... mazon-hq2/

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 13 Oct 2017 08:05

I think Amazon asked that the campus sprawl be limited to no more than a 15 minute walk between office buildings.

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whi5125
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby whi5125 » 13 Oct 2017 09:27

It doesnt take more than 10 minutes to walk Victory park.

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eburress
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 13 Oct 2017 10:01

whi5125 wrote:It doesnt take more than 10 minutes to walk Victory park.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Victory is a quick walk and with it being one of the few areas with decently-sized sidewalks, it's easy to get around on foot.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 13 Oct 2017 10:15

eburress wrote:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Victory is a quick walk and with it being one of the few areas with decently-sized sidewalks, it's easy to get around on foot.


It's funny, on paper, the area seems to be the most urban, most walkable, and most pedestrian friendly area in Dallas, but it's also the least successful. I understand why it's not successful, but, it's a shame, because sidewalks are good all around, there's so much ground floor retail, and it's extremely dense. Of course, most of this only came about just a few years ago, so, with or without Amazon, this area will be a hit soon enough.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Kelley USA » 13 Oct 2017 11:05

I wonder why Harwood wouldn't join in on the Urban Village?? They have several lots fairly close to the AAC. Perhaps they're content doing their own thing!

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clooz
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby clooz » 13 Oct 2017 11:17

Kelley USA wrote:I wonder why Harwood wouldn't join in on the Urban Village?? They have several lots fairly close to the AAC. Perhaps they're content doing their own thing!


I was wondering the same.

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 13 Oct 2017 11:21

eburress wrote:I don't think I've seen this mentioned before (sorry if someone's already posted) but this outlines Victory's proposal for an "Amazon Urban Village."

Image

The buildings seem kinda spread out but I like how this incorporates a number of the projects everyone has talked about for years (Victory Tower, Perot's "signature" tower, etc).

http://dallas.towers.net/2017/10/04/vic ... mazon-hq2/

^^^^^^^
This is the HQ2 proposal spearheaded by Ross Perot, Jr.'s Hillwood Urban Development.

Hillwood already has a strong commercial development relationship with Amazon, having built over 14,000,000 square feet in 17 projects for them. Additionally, they recently proposed building Amazon a single office building in Victory (before HQ2 was announced). Hillwood is a trusted and reliable commercial development partner with a very successful track record with Amazon ... that has to count for something!

This is what I keep coming back to in the HQ2 "competition", as in life in general, relationships should and do matter. At a minimum Hillwood's existing close and successful relationship with Amazon would seem to give Hillwood's "Amazon Urban Village" proposal very serious consideration in Amazon's eyes for HQ2.

Whether they go with it or not who knows but at the very least it should receive serious consideration.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 13 Oct 2017 11:33

Cord1936 wrote:Whether they go with it or not who knows but at the very least it should receive serious consideration.


That's how I see it too. If they don't go with Dallas, so be it, at least I can confidently say we offered them a very solid option, so, we did the best we could considering the current state of the city.

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 14 Oct 2017 16:01

I took this on 10-09-17 and thought I'd have some fun with it!
ImageDowntown Dallas with new freeway signage to Amazon Urban Village, on Flickr

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby joshua.dodd » 14 Oct 2017 20:00

^ Don't tease me like that

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Dtown214
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Dtown214 » 16 Oct 2017 02:19

^^ :lol: :lol:

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 17 Oct 2017 08:44

Here is one way to get yourself out of consideration...
https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/17/in-an-open-letter-to-jeff-bezos-civic-groups-call-for-a-more-transparent-amazon-hq2-selection/
The many commitments signees want Amazon to agree to include creating opportunities to hire, train, and mentor workers from underrepresented backgrounds, supporting workers’ rights to organize, agreeing to pay all property taxes, and setting aside investments that will help build and maintain local public transportation, as well as supporting affordable housing in the city.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 17 Oct 2017 08:58

Perhaps "business-friendly" is finally shaping up to deliver the new & improved Labor Union -- more in line as a partnership between labor and management rather two sides fighting for control. Would be nice to see that happen in Texas....

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 17 Oct 2017 16:39

NJ offering up to 7 billion for Amazon HQ2 in incentives, Atlanta 5B. At what point is it not even worth it for cities, Dallas in particular, to not even try to lure a big fish if they have to forego so many tax dollars.?


http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... ve-2017-10

Vs.


https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/12/san- ... our-style/

Food for thought..

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 18 Oct 2017 10:03

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:NJ offering up to 7 billion for Amazon HQ2 in incentives, Atlanta 5B. At what point is it not even worth it for cities, Dallas in particular, to not even try to lure a big fish if they have to forego so many tax dollars.?

Food for thought..


New Jersey is among the most expensive states in the nation to live or conduct business ... even with the $7B in incentives I would almost venture to say they will still be at a disadvantage with building costs, operational costs, living costs for their employees, etc. But $7B is still a pretty big hook.

Atlanta, however, is another story without having the same outrageously expensive cost structure to contend with as NJ. $5B from them is a REALLY big hook ...

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Tucy
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 18 Oct 2017 11:30

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:NJ offering up to 7 billion for Amazon HQ2 in incentives, Atlanta 5B. At what point is it not even worth it for cities, Dallas in particular, to not even try to lure a big fish if they have to forego so many tax dollars.?


http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... ve-2017-10

Vs.


https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/12/san- ... our-style/

Food for thought..


Where is the $5 Billion Atlanta offer? I don't see anything about it in either of the linked articles and cannot find any evidence of it any where
Last edited by Tucy on 18 Oct 2017 11:56, edited 1 time in total.

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eburress
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 18 Oct 2017 11:32

Agreed, and given how Atlanta seems to address many of their other requirements, the $5B could enough to win HQ2 for them. As I've said, hopefully Texas is also willing to write a big check.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 18 Oct 2017 11:53

Talk about welfare!?!?! I know stuff like this gets done all the time, and it's "Okay" because of all the revenue it the new dealio will generate, but isn't it time to collectively cease the competition to see where the biggest corporate hand-out comes from? Building the second headquarter is going to happen, right, whether or not there's a ridiculous race to the bottom to see who can come up with the biggest bag of free money for the gigantic very profitable corporation.

Maybe we should require everyone at Amazon to take a drug test to get the welfare.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 Oct 2017 12:11

Tucy wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:NJ offering up to 7 billion for Amazon HQ2 in incentives, Atlanta 5B. At what point is it not even worth it for cities, Dallas in particular, to not even try to lure a big fish if they have to forego so many tax dollars.?


http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... ve-2017-10

Vs.


https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/12/san- ... our-style/

Food for thought..


Where is the $5 Billion Atlanta offer? I don't see anything about it in either of the linked articles and cannot find any evidence of it any where


Good point. I saw it somewhere. I'll have to look again.

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Tucy
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 18 Oct 2017 12:47

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:NJ offering up to 7 billion for Amazon HQ2 in incentives, Atlanta 5B. At what point is it not even worth it for cities, Dallas in particular, to not even try to lure a big fish if they have to forego so many tax dollars.?


http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... ve-2017-10

Vs.


https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/12/san- ... our-style/

Food for thought..


Where is the $5 Billion Atlanta offer? I don't see anything about it in either of the linked articles and cannot find any evidence of it any where


Good point. I saw it somewhere. I'll have to look again.


I think you probably misread. I found a number of articles that discussed Atlanta in conjunction with a $5 Billion investment. But the $5 Billion investment was Amazon's investment.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 18 Oct 2017 13:26

Newark is not a contender for HQ2, doesn't matter how much they offer.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 Oct 2017 13:54

Tucy wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Where is the $5 Billion Atlanta offer? I don't see anything about it in either of the linked articles and cannot find any evidence of it any where


Good point. I saw it somewhere. I'll have to look again.


I think you probably misread. I found a number of articles that discussed Atlanta in conjunction with a $5 Billion investment. But the $5 Billion investment was Amazon's investment.


I think you're correct. Good catch.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 18 Oct 2017 16:05

What exactly are these people thinking????
Dallas-based broker could help woo Amazon HQ2 to Central Texas farm land

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2017/10/18/dallas-based-broker-could-help-woo-amazon-hq2-to.html
The Sandow Lakes Ranch is more than 33,000 acres about an hour's drive from downtown Austin with vast undeveloped tracts of farm land and more than a dozen lakes — plus a sizable industrial complex anchored by a coal plant that will close soon.

Dallas broker Bernard "Bernie" Uechtritz has been marketing the ranch to would-be buyers for the last year, and says he believes the ranch has a lot of what Amazon is looking for in an HQ2 site.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 18 Oct 2017 16:09

On another note...
I kinda wish the City of Dallas would consolidate all of their 'downtown' proposals into one, strong proposal. It should include VP, Reunion, Cedars, Spire, Headington, SmartCity, DE, etc... The entire downtown area should be the focus, and Amazon could select various parts of each to get going if they wish. Sure, it would more likely lean towards one direction or the other, but I hardly see a true HQ2 fitting into any of the independent locations. Seems like offering them up together would be more beneficial.
Other outside areas like Midtown, Frisco, Irving, etc, could all be their own proposals. My two cents anyway.
Here's to hoping some proposals get leaked out in the next couple of weeks...

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 Oct 2017 17:59

..Does anyone else think this whole bidding war is just a complete Farce?..

I mean I find it hard to believe that a company like Amazon, hasn't done research, a pro forma Financial analysis, and looked at the numbers to determine which location works best for them in long run...

If you ask me, they probably have a winner already. They're simply using this as leverage , bargaining power, when they announce the finalist.

Maybe I'm just being cynical.. but I have a hard time believing that everyone has a "chance". I doubt they'll even look at all the submissions.

I mean come on.. even Birmingham, Alabama is submitting something. Let's be real...

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 18 Oct 2017 18:51

I imagine they have a location in mind that they're hoping to get more money from, as well as 1 or 2 others that they might consider if the deal was right.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 18 Oct 2017 19:07



And how to get them to want to leave: https://reason.com/blog/2017/10/18/seat ... ve-me-baby

In 2014 the city passed one of the nation's first $15 an hour minimum wage laws. This was followed by onerous employee scheduling regulations, restrictions on running criminal background checks, and an infamous (and probably illegal) income tax.

And these are just the policies that have passed. Also in the works is a so-called Amazon tax, which would levy a yearly $100-per-employee levy on large companies. To draft this tax, Seattle hired John Burbank, director of the Economic Opportunity Institute, who once called Amazon a "sociopathic roommate" that the city was better off without.
[/quote]

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 18 Oct 2017 19:13

eburress wrote:Agreed, and given how Atlanta seems to address many of their other requirements, the $5B could enough to win HQ2 for them. As I've said, hopefully Texas is also willing to write a big check.


Atlanta is still Hell on Earth. Horrible traffic. Wretched climate. Incredible racism. In a nutshell, there's an agreement that the blacks can do whatever they want with the city itself as long as they stay in it. I recently visited some relatives out there. They practically worship Trump, and keep Fox News on the TV virtually non-stop. Even my 11-year-old thought they were pathetic.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby R1070 » 18 Oct 2017 19:46

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
eburress wrote:Agreed, and given how Atlanta seems to address many of their other requirements, the $5B could enough to win HQ2 for them. As I've said, hopefully Texas is also willing to write a big check.


Atlanta is still Hell on Earth. Horrible traffic. Wretched climate. Incredible racism. In a nutshell, there's an agreement that the blacks can do whatever they want with the city itself as long as they stay in it. I recently visited some relatives out there. They practically worship Trump, and keep Fox News on the TV virtually non-stop. Even my 11-year-old thought they were pathetic.


I lived in Atlanta for years. A lot of this is pretty dead on.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby joshua.dodd » 18 Oct 2017 23:47

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
eburress wrote:Agreed, and given how Atlanta seems to address many of their other requirements, the $5B could enough to win HQ2 for them. As I've said, hopefully Texas is also willing to write a big check.


Atlanta is still Hell on Earth. Horrible traffic. Wretched climate. Incredible racism. In a nutshell, there's an agreement that the blacks can do whatever they want with the city itself as long as they stay in it. I recently visited some relatives out there. They practically worship Trump, and keep Fox News on the TV virtually non-stop. Even my 11-year-old thought they were pathetic.


Nice.
MAGA

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Kelley USA
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Kelley USA » 19 Oct 2017 11:14

Here's the DFW pitch video to Amazon... Gave me some goosebumps, but that's just me. It's well done!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ2qtQ4OS2k

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 19 Oct 2017 11:17

Loved the video! Very well done!

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 19 Oct 2017 11:26

....remember the one Frisco did>

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eburress
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 19 Oct 2017 11:33

tamtagon wrote:....remember the one Frisco did>


I realize videos of this caliber are expensive but man, that Frisco video was embarrassing, especially considering everything Frisco has going for it.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Kelley USA » 19 Oct 2017 11:49

It might be fun to post videos from other cities as we come across them... Here's one from the joint bid from Buffalo / Rochester that was just posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtHyguF1DUA

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 19 Oct 2017 12:30

Kelley USA wrote:It might be fun to post videos from other cities as we come across them... Here's one from the joint bid from Buffalo / Rochester that was just posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtHyguF1DUA


I would be interested in seeing other proposals as well. The Buffalo/Rochester one is cool and well done too. Seems like they only focused on showcases different parts of the city though, and didn't really provide much information.

From Austin, I saw this, but I don't see any sort of video:
http://www.512tech.com/technology/austi ... Zw8i9cHCO/

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dfwcre8tive » 19 Oct 2017 12:57

Latest analysis from a Seattle perspective:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a ... -heats-up/

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Waldozer » 19 Oct 2017 13:25


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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dukemeredith » 19 Oct 2017 13:52

dfwcre8tive wrote:Latest analysis from a Seattle perspective:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a ... -heats-up/



Spoiler: Dallas isn't mentioned once.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Fitch » 19 Oct 2017 14:03


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Kelley USA
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Kelley USA » 19 Oct 2017 14:09

dukemeredith wrote:
dfwcre8tive wrote:Latest analysis from a Seattle perspective:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a ... -heats-up/



Spoiler: Dallas isn't mentioned once.


To be fair though, they also listed Rochester at #4... I think for every article that doesn't mention Dallas you'll find 2 more that do. It's really anybody's guess at this point.

On another note, I was pretty underwhelmed by the Philly pitch video...

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby CRE_Investor » 19 Oct 2017 14:26

I have no inside information other than a brief discussion with a former high ranking person from Amazon's real estate department, but based on his insight I'm calling my shot right now that Atlanta ends up winning HQ2. The next tier cities would be Philly, Boston, or DC. I think they want to be in the eastern time zone with better access to Europe (major growth initiative) and have a headquarters presence on both sides of the US.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 19 Oct 2017 14:40

Philly for the win.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dfwcre8tive » 19 Oct 2017 14:48

Speculation from current/past high-ranking Amazonians that I know are all over the place, but these stand out as their favorites:

1. Toronto: East Coast access, Eastern time, easy travel to Europe, and it's out of the U.S. (Trump/politicians are anti-Amazon and it would give them leverage).
2. Nashville: Big logistics hub, but skilled labor shortage despite easy recruitment from the Research Triangle. Tax-friendly.
3. Detroit: dark horse but Amazon could reinvent a rust-belt city as they please, giving them a great American success story (which appeases politicians).

Texas political climate could doom any bid from Texas cities. Now we wait to see.

Also, here are some fun responses from cities: https://www.curbed.com/2017/10/19/16504 ... n-planning


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