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Trinity River Park

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 01 Aug 2017 16:42

2 words: Cautiously Optimistic

DPatel304
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 01 Aug 2017 20:14

On a slightly related note, has anyone been to Houston's Buffalo Bayou? I'm not very familiar with Houston at all, but isn't that similar to the Trinity River Park in that it's a large greenspace near the urban core that is also a flood zone?

I'm curious to hear the similarities, and how well it has been working out for them so far.

Tnexster
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tnexster » 01 Aug 2017 21:45

^I have never seen it but have heard positive remarks about it and it looks pretty cool from the pictures. I believe it is somewhat similar but the Trinity River is probably a larger body of water. Dallas has the opportunity to do something really great here, for the first time in a long time I think they may just pull it off but the road project has to be killed for good.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 02 Aug 2017 00:23

I don't want to get my hopes up too high, but it is a good sign that the city has invested a lot of money into this part of town. We have the two signature bridges, the streetcar, and potentially another deck park coming too. Seems like there are high hopes for this area, and a park such as this would really help speed up the process.

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rantanamo
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby rantanamo » 02 Aug 2017 03:15

DPatel304 wrote:On a slightly related note, has anyone been to Houston's Buffalo Bayou? I'm not very familiar with Houston at all, but isn't that similar to the Trinity River Park in that it's a large greenspace near the urban core that is also a flood zone?

I'm curious to hear the similarities, and how well it has been working out for them so far.


I wouldn't call them similar at all. Its a very nice area, but just a more narrow corridor that's surrounded by the city. IMHO, more like Turtle Creek Park + Katy Trail and how they connect with other parks as they go through their run.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 02 Aug 2017 09:50

It's time for Dallas to stop squabbling about the Trinity and build a park
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... build-park

I'm usually suspicious anytime the mayor comes out with some clever new plan, but if the LGC charter was changed by Angela Hunt and others to take out the road-building authority and add the ability to terminate the deal at any time, then what's there to fear? I'm hearing complaints that there isn't enough public discussion on the LGC structure, but I'm not convinced that the general public really cares that much.

At this point, the conflict seems to be between the "keep the Trinity wild" folks and the Van Valkenburgh plan supporters, which to me is ridiculous since you can have both and there's plenty of wild Trinity up and downstream from the downtown corridor. Is it unreasonable to say "just do something already"?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 02 Aug 2017 11:42

lakewoodhobo wrote:At this point, the conflict seems to be between the "keep the Trinity wild" folks and the Van Valkenburgh plan supporters, which to me is ridiculous since you can have both and there's plenty of wild Trinity up and downstream from the downtown corridor. Is it unreasonable to say "just do something already"?



I like your idea. The Van Valkenburgh plan is a nice manicured park that surely will be popular; it potentially can be the preimere urban park in the Southern U.S. However, the importance of letting the Trinity be itself shouldn't be understated.

For so long this city, has tried to turn it into something nature didn't want it to be. I think it's imperative that the southern portion of the Trinity River ,along with the great Trinity forest , are preserved in their natural state.

Efforts to clean them up should be a priority with this project as Well.

If done right, imagine what you could have..an Ecological treasure in the heart of a major city. Rare indeed. The city should try and make the Trinity Forest a State/National Park.

Imagine going camping in your own city.. This is what Dallas needs. It's often cited as the most boring outdoors town.

This could change that.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 02 Aug 2017 17:51

Tnexster wrote:The mayor picked the right guy to finally deliver that forever-promised Trinity River park

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... river-park


He sounds like he has the passion for the job, and isn't part of the old guard that just wants another expressway with a park that is only pretty to look at while zooming down the expressway and not really functional.

My preference for the park would be for a mostly "rewilding" scenario north and south of Downtown, with ample trails and a true connection with nature. More trees, cleaner water, more rocks, serenity. However, I would like to see more of a "showcase" park in the sections of the Trinity closer to downtown. Interactive, beautiful, with programmed activities and a variety of uses.

We definitely need a swimming and watersports area. I would love to see a large spa-like linear infinity edge swimming complex along the west side of the river, overlooking the new park and downtown. I envision various sections of pools, a separate kids/family area, a spa-like area with calming music and lighting, maybe an area with a "hot springs" type pool. All with beach type entrances meaning you walk into the pools and they gradually get deeper, and sloped land areas to sunbathe with a view. Manmade, naturally, but with a natural feel. Manmade can still be cool, Austin has Deep Eddy, and Iceland has the blue lagoon which is one of the hottest tourist destinations in the world right now. This swimming complex could be a great amenity for citizens, a tourist draw, and would also naturally charge admission which could fund the operations of the complex.

Another nice feature along the river somewhere (not on the river, but next to it) would be like what Oklahoma City did with their whitewater rafting area downtown: http://www.riversportokc.org/boathouse- ... r-rafting/
That project was much better executed than Dallas' failed, expensive attempt at a much smaller whitewater feature. A public/private partnership might be good in this case to get easier funding.

We also definitely need a promenade/boardwalk running along the western bank of the river, which would give great views of the new park and skyline. The city could rent space to vendors and food trucks here.

I also wouldn't be opposed to selling small amounts of the riverfront land to developers to fund the project, as long as the project is world class. Having some restaurants and residential along the city facing part of the park would help activate the public spaces anyways.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 02 Aug 2017 17:53

Matt777 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:The mayor picked the right guy to finally deliver that forever-promised Trinity River park

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... river-park


He sounds like he has the passion for the job, and isn't part of the old guard that just wants another expressway with a park that is only pretty to look at while zooming down the expressway and not really functional.

My preference for the park would be for a mostly "rewilding" scenario north and south of Downtown, with ample trails and a true connection with nature. More trees, cleaner water, more rocks, serenity. However, I would like to see more of a "showcase" park in the sections of the Trinity closer to downtown. Interactive, beautiful, with programmed activities and a variety of uses. A huge task with any park project would be cleaning the water, and finding other ways to drain storm water. The storm water drainage is a big part of the pollution problem anyway, not to mention the flood problems it causes in the river area.

We definitely need a swimming and watersports area. I would love to see a large spa-like linear infinity edge swimming complex along the west side of the river, overlooking the new park and downtown. I envision various sections of pools, a separate kids/family area, a spa-like area with calming music and lighting, maybe an area with a "hot springs" type pool. All with beach type entrances meaning you walk into the pools and they gradually get deeper, and sloped land areas to sunbathe with a view. Manmade, naturally, but with a natural feel. Manmade can still be cool, Austin has Deep Eddy, and Iceland has the blue lagoon which is one of the hottest tourist destinations in the world right now. This swimming complex could be a great amenity for citizens, a tourist draw, and would also naturally charge admission which could fund the operations of the complex.

Another nice feature along the river somewhere (not on the river, but next to it) would be like what Oklahoma City did with their whitewater rafting area downtown: http://www.riversportokc.org/boathouse- ... r-rafting/
That project was much better executed than Dallas' failed, expensive attempt at a much smaller whitewater feature. A public/private partnership might be good in this case to get easier funding.

We also definitely need a promenade/boardwalk running along the western bank of the river, which would give great views of the new park and skyline. The city could rent space to vendors and food trucks here.

I also wouldn't be opposed to selling small amounts of the riverfront land to developers to fund the project, as long as the project is world class. Having some restaurants and residential along the city facing part of the park would help activate the public spaces anyways.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 03 Aug 2017 12:24

I've always wondered whether the Corps would allow direct pedestrian access to the levees from private businesses using some type of bridge. This would be a little easier from the west side because the bridges wouldn't cross the Oncor ROW. The opportunity for parkside development would be immense.

Screen Shot 2017-08-03 at 12.19.13 PM.png
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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 03 Aug 2017 13:11

Anyone know What's the plan for the electrical wires..

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 03 Aug 2017 14:03

lakewoodhobo wrote:I've always wondered whether the Corps would allow direct pedestrian access to the levees from private businesses using some type of bridge. This would be a little easier from the west side because the bridges wouldn't cross the Oncor ROW. The opportunity for parkside development would be immense.

Screen Shot 2017-08-03 at 12.19.13 PM.png


Yes, they should.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 04 Aug 2017 00:07

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Anyone know What's the plan for the electrical wires..


Get used to them. The cost to bury them would be astronomical. The city tried to get the state to spread the cost across all electrical users statewide, and got laughed at.

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dukemeredith
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby dukemeredith » 04 Aug 2017 07:32

Here's an idea of how much it would cost:

The estimated cost for constructing underground transmission lines ranges from 4 to 14 times more expensive than overhead lines of the same voltage and same distance. A typical new 69 kV overhead single-circuit transmission line costs approximately $285,000 per mile as opposed to $1.5 million per mile for a new 69 kV underground line (without the terminals). A new 138 kV overhead line costs approximately $390,000 per mile as opposed to $2 million per mile for underground (without the terminals).


http://www.elp.com/articles/powergrid_i ... ison-.html

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby gshelton91 » 04 Aug 2017 09:43

@Matt777 - Interesting Ideas - I have always loved the idea of a whiteWater Rafting course near Downtown -- I had no idea that one existed up in OKC -- if they can support it i can't see why we would not be able to.

Regarding the electrical wires -- Frisco got theirs buried considering the money being spent on this project for other things I would not be against the city paying to burry them across the flood plain at least... I doubt that would be more than 1 mile. It would also really improve the redevelopment opportunities near Trinity Groves.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 04 Aug 2017 10:20

gshelton91 wrote:@Matt777 - Interesting Ideas - I have always loved the idea of a whiteWater Rafting course near Downtown -- I had no idea that one existed up in OKC -- if they can support it i can't see why we would not be able to.

Regarding the electrical wires -- Frisco got theirs buried considering the money being spent on this project for other things I would not be against the city paying to burry them across the flood plain at least... I doubt that would be more than 1 mile. It would also really improve the redevelopment opportunities near Trinity Groves.


Previous plans for the park included a white water rafting attraction but if you look at what they did with The Standing Wave it's best that the city not is the one involved in the process. There have been some serious doubts that such an attraction can properly stand the flooding of the Trinity. Cleaning mud and tree branches off the Trinity Skyline Trail is one thing. Cleaning mud out of a white water attraction a few times of year after it has been under water for days on end is a whole other project.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 04 Aug 2017 10:30

Burying the lines could come with a power grid update & renovation appealing to data centers. Turn up the power, make the juice-flow far more secure and seal the deal with the glow of renewable electricity.

It's expensive, but it's much much better.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 04 Aug 2017 13:02

cowboyeagle05 wrote:
gshelton91 wrote:@Matt777 - Interesting Ideas - I have always loved the idea of a whiteWater Rafting course near Downtown -- I had no idea that one existed up in OKC -- if they can support it i can't see why we would not be able to.

Regarding the electrical wires -- Frisco got theirs buried considering the money being spent on this project for other things I would not be against the city paying to burry them across the flood plain at least... I doubt that would be more than 1 mile. It would also really improve the redevelopment opportunities near Trinity Groves.


Previous plans for the park included a white water rafting attraction but if you look at what they did with The Standing Wave it's best that the city not is the one involved in the process. There have been some serious doubts that such an attraction can properly stand the flooding of the Trinity. Cleaning mud and tree branches off the Trinity Skyline Trail is one thing. Cleaning mud out of a white water attraction a few times of year after it has been under water for days on end is a whole other project.


The whitewater complex in OKC is not actually on the river, it's next to the river. I think the best route for the Trinity park is to make the parks and attractions on the sides of the river, raised up, and flood the rest of it permanently, kind of like Lady Bird lake in Austin. Lady Bird lake is actually an artificial reservoir, which many people don't know. If we turned the Trinity into a reservoir around downtown, with beautiful parks running along both banks, we would have a permanent waterfront like Austin does rather than a glorified drainage ditch 90% of the time, and a garbage filled reservoir 10% of the time as it is now.

I still love my idea of having a linear swimming complex running along the western bank near downtown, raised up, with an infinity edge overlooking the reservoir/park, and the skyline in the background. You could spend the day hiking/biking the new Trinity nature trails, maybe stop for some food at the boardwalk vendors, try some whitewater rafting or kayaking the new reservoir, then wind down your day with some sunset cocktails in a relaxing infinity pool, enjoying the skyline view. As it gets dark, the pool could be illuminated. This is the kind of complex that will draw millennials from across the nation and world to want to come and spend time (and $) in Dallas.

I would call the swimming complex something catchy like Trinity Springs, Trinity Lagoons, Trinity Waters. A great partner to build this complex would be the Crystal Lagoon company. They have a proven track record around the world and they're building a complex in Rockwall:

Image

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http://www.crystal-lagoons.com/

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 04 Aug 2017 16:06

Something like that would be perfect for the 505 Riverfront site.

Screen Shot 2017-08-04 at 4.04.23 PM.png
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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 04 Aug 2017 16:57

lakewoodhobo wrote:Something like that would be perfect for the 505 Riverfront site.

Screen Shot 2017-08-04 at 4.04.23 PM.png


I'd prefer the swimming feature to be on the west bank of the river, to ensure skyline views, but that 505 Riverfront site would be great for the whitewater complex and a mixed-use tower development facing Riverfront Blvd.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 04 Aug 2017 17:21

My very crude, very not to scale, very preliminary concept "art."

IMG_7921.JPG

IMG_7922.JPG

IMG_7923.JPG


I'll add that while I like the graphics presented for the "park designed to flood," a park designed to flood developed by our current leadership sounds like a guaranteed boondoggle. Not to mention, the finished product will probably be disappointing compared to the graphics, the costs to build way above projections, and the cost to repair it after each flood will probably be abhorrent. With the reservoir concept, we don't have to worry about that. Yes, infrastructure to build a reservoir wall and boardwalk will be expensive, but it would probably be less in the long run. Also, being able to sell/lease out space along the boardwalk will generate income for operations, and I think the features could be done with public/private partnerships that will reduce the need for city fund investments, and the features will be ran more efficiently (lagoon complex, whitewater park, etc).
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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 05 Aug 2017 10:03

Outstanding vision Matt777.

The height of the levees and protective no-build zones would have to be taken into accounted; Trinity Infinity Lagoons is a prefect match to a managed wilderness and/or reservoir. Yin and Yang.

Makes me wonder if the indoor/outdoor ski slopes resort hotel would be part of the same complex, or a separate next-door entity. The tourist potential of an actual park destination is off the charts, relative to the rest of North Texas. All of this, of course is dependent on a naturally sustaining system of flash flood mitigation. I still think a recycling series of cisterns, tunnels, canals and pumps will be necessary to transport seasonal flash flood water to downstream wetland sequestration; good old-fashioned windmills pump the clean water back upstream during the dry summer. Not only will the Trinity ditch become a managed wilderness and reservoir functioning as a flood control device, it will become play an active role in point-source drinking water.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dall ... ar-9730235

Their Trinity Toll Road was a Package of Lies. Now We Trust Them on the Park?

FRIDAY, AUGUST 4, 2017
BY JIM SCHUTZE

...Now the mayor wants to fence them out and turn the river over to the same people who wanted to kill it.

Here’s a prediction: The mayor’s park plan will not stand. If it takes another 20 years, that plan will not stand.


This prediction from Jim Schutze it bankable truth. Turning over park operations to the dinosaur-act which attempted to make it a tolled highway cannot be allowed.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Aug 2017 11:33

Every projection for a reservoir project on the Dallas part of the Trinity as far as I have researched has clearly stated its just not a viable project. A true reservoir on the scale of let's say Austin would require clearing out significant flood zones of wildlife and trees. The Largest Hardwood forest thing that Dallas raves about which actually is a great amenity would have to be removed. The sheer amount of flood waters Dallas deals with on its section alone is only compounded by the fact that Fort Worth, Arlington, Grand Prarie and Irving feed tons of water into the flood zone so Fort Worths side stays relatively uncompounded because they don't have the entire suburban area dumping their rain water above stream like Dallas gets fed. Not to mention the Army Corp of Engineers are a quite different group than 20-50 years ago. Environmental law as well even with our current administration is quite a hard thing to move upstream against.

Honestly, we messed up that area when we tried to tell mother earth how to run things decades ago when we straightened out the river. I understand the desire for a lakefront/river front but it's not a viable option or the big guys would have been promising it in renderings decades ago. Notice not a single vision truly suggested this even with all the fantasy designs that have been drawn up. There is something that tells every single designer/engineer that a body of dammed water is not possible.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 07 Aug 2017 12:30

I'm just hoping that the 'meander' is reinstated. I could live without any significant ponds or lakes, but if the river stays as straight as it is, any park will be limited in character. So long as that meander is still a requirement from the corps, it should get going asap. Immediately afterwards, we need to get busy planting trees as it'll take some time for any new trees to reach a beneficial size. If we know the path of the eventual meander, we could even start planting today...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 07 Aug 2017 14:57

Almost anything is possible with the right engineering. I'm tired of the pessimism in this city. We can find a more modern way to deal with flood drainage. One that doesn't force us to have a toxic wasteland running right through the center of our city. Design that solution, then design the park around the solution.

We can't be the only big city in the world forced to use our riverfront as a drainage ditch. I haven't seen it anywhere else, at least not as poorly done as ours. It could be an issue of lack of leadership, money, willpower. But the Trinity is certainly not the way it is because there aren't any other options.

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whi5125
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby whi5125 » 20 Sep 2017 14:12

So....I am kind of surprised no one here has mentioned that the Trinity Tollway is now dead, meaning this can actually truly happen.

What is the latest news on this ? Anything from City Hall?

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 20 Sep 2017 14:23

Matt777 wrote:We can't be the only big city in the world forced to use our riverfront as a drainage ditch. I haven't seen it anywhere else, at least not as poorly done as ours


I take it you've never been to Los Angeles.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 20 Sep 2017 14:41

whi5125 wrote:So....I am kind of surprised no one here has mentioned that the Trinity Tollway is now dead, meaning this can actually truly happen.

What is the latest news on this ? Anything from City Hall?


I think The forum's General sentiment is Cautiously Optimistic. But you Can't ever rule out a Dallas Back Door deal to keep the toll road alive.

Slightly off topic.. what's the deal with the Margaret McDermott bridge? It's scheduled completion was this summer.. and well summer's basically over.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 20 Sep 2017 23:53

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
Matt777 wrote:We can't be the only big city in the world forced to use our riverfront as a drainage ditch. I haven't seen it anywhere else, at least not as poorly done as ours


I take it you've never been to Los Angeles.


They have the beaches to distract you, to the point of saying "what river?"

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The_Overdog
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby The_Overdog » 22 Sep 2017 17:08

They have the beaches to distract you, to the point of saying "what river?"


They also should not be the model of managing an urban river but the Titanic of sorts. My SoCal relatives have a 'drainage ditch' in their backyard and running through their entire town and most aren't even aware it is an actual river, and it is sadder and probably more polluted than The Trinity.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 18 Jan 2018 14:56

Has anyone heard any updates on the Trinity Park plan? Or is it going to be an additional 20 years of "planning" and "hoping?"

Making the Trinity corridor into a huge, wonderful natural outdoor attraction and connecting it with the surrounding areas, transit, and bike paths would amp up the renaissance of central Dallas. Companies like Amazon would also see the city in a better light. The outdoor "cool" factor is priceless for attracting millenials.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 18 Jan 2018 16:24

I don't have any updates, but is the city potentially just focusing on driving development to the area for now and then hoping some of those private entities will help chip in for a park later down the line? I'm really just trying to rationalize the hold up on this potential gem for the city.

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PonyUp13
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby PonyUp13 » 19 Jan 2018 19:06

I’ve wondered the same and perused the City Council briefings recently to no avail. The new LGC doesn’t have to report a whole lot right?

The lakes/puddles I assume are on hold since the excavation of dirt was to create the bench for toll lanes.

Maybe Broadnax wanted to review everything before things moved forward.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 19 Jan 2018 20:48

I just remember a post I saw on reddit a couple of months ago. Maybe this is all common knowledge and old news, but here you go:
Yep. The City of Dallas is trying to turn that whole area into the Trinity River District, connecting the north and south sides of the flood plain. You’ll note all the construction along Riverfront Blvd too; they’re trying to make it less Tijuana. About 5 yrs ago I designed all the new street and pedestrian lights along Riverfront, the curvy white ones with the blue beacon lights on top. They’re supposed to resemble reeds; those will run from Continental down to Cadiz St as part of a re-design with bike lanes, landscaping, etc. The bridges, Trinity Groves, the Riverfront Blvd re-design are all the early signs of what will eventually be some serious gentrification in that area.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comment ... k/dpgi0nj/

This doesn't really answer anyone's question about the Park, but sounds like there's a lot of groundwork being done to gentrify Riverfront Blvd. That's probably common knowledge at this point, I just never go on that street, so it's news to me. In addition to the MHH bridge and pedestrian bridge, perhaps they are more focused on developing either side and making the park a lower priority?

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 20 Jan 2018 20:49

Has anybody looked into this Stoss plan? With the exception of the Trinity tollway built into it, it's a gorgeous plan. Replace the tollway in this design with pedestrian and bike trails, sports fields, programmed park space and it looks like a winner. Much more realistic than that floody one that was floating around. I like the beach idea, the way transport is incorporated, and the High Speed Rail Station integration. Looks like a skyscraper village around the HSR station and the Cedars, and very Amazon-like.... which is weird because this looks like it came out in 2014:

http://www.stoss.net/projects/27/trinity-riverfront/

Image

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In this one, looks like the HSR Station on the left and Amazon Village Cedars site in the background?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 22 Jan 2018 14:41

Part of that vision is already moving forward actually. The Water Gardens project down in the Cedars is moving ahead with NCTCOG money already. Matthews Southwest has been pushing that forward to make their land acquisitions along Riverfront Blvd a lot more desirable for things like an Amazon. Most of that plan though is just more distraction BS from the mayor and the Trinity Trust who was still claiming the toll road plan was good. They brought in all these designers to draw up more fantasies to distract the public with more renderings downplaying the ridiculous tollway.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby whit5125 » 01 Feb 2018 08:38

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Part of that vision is already moving forward actually. The Water Gardens project down in the Cedars is moving ahead with NCTCOG money already. Matthews Southwest has been pushing that forward to make their land acquisitions along Riverfront Blvd a lot more desirable for things like an Amazon. Most of that plan though is just more distraction BS from the mayor and the Trinity Trust who was still claiming the toll road plan was good. They brought in all these designers to draw up more fantasies to distract the public with more renderings downplaying the ridiculous tollway.


Isnt the Trinity Toll road dead now? At this point is there anything standing in the way of the park being build other than the City of Dallas being its usual slow and foot dragging self?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 Feb 2018 09:05

whit5125 wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:Part of that vision is already moving forward actually. The Water Gardens project down in the Cedars is moving ahead with NCTCOG money already. Matthews Southwest has been pushing that forward to make their land acquisitions along Riverfront Blvd a lot more desirable for things like an Amazon. Most of that plan though is just more distraction BS from the mayor and the Trinity Trust who was still claiming the toll road plan was good. They brought in all these designers to draw up more fantasies to distract the public with more renderings downplaying the ridiculous tollway.


Isnt the Trinity Toll road dead now? At this point is there anything standing in the way of the park being build other than the City of Dallas being its usual slow and foot dragging self?


Things like actual workable documents not just fictions in watercolors have to be paid for, drawn out based on actual research/data and then submitted for environmental review which is not a simple or short process. Previous environmental reviews were submitted with the tollway in place which has an effect on the flow of water so changes in design can cause a restart of the whole process. We are talking about federally controlled flood zone here that if done wrong could flood billions of real estate so it's not a minor thing. Thow into the whole problem that most of the bond money is gone. The city doesn't have the money to build much of anything down there anymore. They will have to include new projects in bond elections and new applications for grants and of course naming rights which raise pennies of the total cost of these types of projects.

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whit5125
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby whit5125 » 01 Feb 2018 09:47

cowboyeagle05 wrote:
whit5125 wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:Part of that vision is already moving forward actually. The Water Gardens project down in the Cedars is moving ahead with NCTCOG money already. Matthews Southwest has been pushing that forward to make their land acquisitions along Riverfront Blvd a lot more desirable for things like an Amazon. Most of that plan though is just more distraction BS from the mayor and the Trinity Trust who was still claiming the toll road plan was good. They brought in all these designers to draw up more fantasies to distract the public with more renderings downplaying the ridiculous tollway.


Isnt the Trinity Toll road dead now? At this point is there anything standing in the way of the park being build other than the City of Dallas being its usual slow and foot dragging self?


Things like actual workable documents not just fictions in watercolors have to be paid for, drawn out based on actual research/data and then submitted for environmental review which is not a simple or short process. Previous environmental reviews were submitted with the tollway in place which has an effect on the flow of water so changes in design can cause a restart of the whole process. We are talking about federally controlled flood zone here that if done wrong could flood billions of real estate so it's not a minor thing. Thow into the whole problem that most of the bond money is gone. The city doesn't have the money to build much of anything down there anymore. They will have to include new projects in bond elections and new applications for grants and of course naming rights which raise pennies of the total cost of these types of projects.


Except they did submit versions of the park with and without the tollway, and one of the major talking points was that the version of the park that we all say last year without the tollway was approved by the federal government to be built.

While getting more money is obviously an issue, they did receive a massive donation of at least 50 million dollars to start construction of the park. So they have enough to get through preliminary final designs at least and to start some planning, unless they yet again want to do ANOTHER design to shuffle money around and have it "magically" go to waste and into the pockets of people that are well connected

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 Feb 2018 12:37

Which I have complete confidence they will squander.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 11 Jun 2018 13:51

Sorry to get everyone's hopes up and bumping this topic, I don't have any updates regarding the Trinity River Park.

I was wondering if anyone here has actually utilized the existing trails and park space as it is. I've only briefly used the trails here, so I really don't know much of anything about the area, but was thinking of doing a bit of exploring (on bike) whenever the weather cools down a bit. I was able to come up with a 10 mile loop which covers a good portion of the area, from what I can see:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/32.7792 ... m0!1m0!3e1

I know there is a good photo op at Trammel Crow Park, but does anyone else have any other hidden gems or tips they'd like to contribute? Also, is it possible to shorten this loop at all? I know once the Margaret McDermott Bridge is completed, there will be a pedestrian/bike crossing there, but, other than that, I didn't see a good way to cross the River. I know the Ronald Kirk bridge exists, but it only seems accessible on the West Side of the park.

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Thymant
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Thymant » 12 Jun 2018 04:04

DPatel304 wrote:Sorry to get everyone's hopes up and bumping this topic, I don't have any updates regarding the Trinity River Park.

I was wondering if anyone here has actually utilized the existing trails and park space as it is. I've only briefly used the trails here, so I really don't know much of anything about the area, but was thinking of doing a bit of exploring (on bike) whenever the weather cools down a bit. I was able to come up with a 10 mile loop which covers a good portion of the area, from what I can see:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/32.7792 ... m0!1m0!3e1

I know there is a good photo op at Trammel Crow Park, but does anyone else have any other hidden gems or tips they'd like to contribute? Also, is it possible to shorten this loop at all? I know once the Margaret McDermott Bridge is completed, there will be a pedestrian/bike crossing there, but, other than that, I didn't see a good way to cross the River. I know the Ronald Kirk bridge exists, but it only seems accessible on the West Side of the park.


I actually frequent this park regularly and the path you have on google is probably one of the best routes to take for making a complete loop (I usually make a U and cross the same bridge twice). The main paths on the river are fully paved so its easy for running, biking, or walking plus as you go along the trail you will see endless unique spots to catch photos of the skyline and the river. Don't be afraid to venture off the trail and you will find a lot landmarks and spots to get unique visuals of the city. As far as bridges go, as far as I know the only bridge I've seen to cross the river on the river bed is the small bridge off the parking lot of the Trammel Crow Park. They also have the rocky trail that goes along the levy on the west side of the river, I don't think the path on the east side is accessible, this gives probably the best complete view of the North Dallas in the the city outside of the Hampton avenue. Usually after 7pm the temperature is comfortable for exploring but you'll of course only have until about 8:30 before the sun goes down. The river is definitely probably one of the best fairly unknown gems of the city and after exploring a couple of times you will grow to appreciate its natural beauty.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 14 Jun 2018 11:19

Thanks, that's pretty cool to hear! I wanted to eventually take some friends on a long bike through this loop, but it might make sense for me to explore it on my own beforehand just so I'm familiar with it.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 15 Jun 2018 07:47

Removal of Standing Wave is now underway. Santa Fe Trestle Trail is now closed for the remainder of 2018. City of Dallas is in violation of the River and Harbors Act due to improper design and construction of the Standing Wave.

No loop trail route is available other than going further south and crossing the Cedar Crest Bridge.

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 15 Jun 2018 09:11

Thank goodness.

I'm totally in favor of river-grooming/river-making projects to create a wide variety of watercraft branches for people to enjoy; however, such 'features' can only happen through a natural syncopation of the river flow. The Standing Wave was basically a ¼ damn and flat-out ignorant.

People should be able to paddle between Fort Worth and Dallas, it should be a thing.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tnexster » 16 Jun 2018 17:09

casperitl wrote:Removal of Standing Wave is now underway. Santa Fe Trestle Trail is now closed for the remainder of 2018. City of Dallas is in violation of the River and Harbors Act due to improper design and construction of the Standing Wave.

No loop trail route is available other than going further south and crossing the Cedar Crest Bridge.


Nobody figured this out before it was built?

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whit5125
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby whit5125 » 18 Jun 2018 10:20

Is there any real update on this ?

I mean the standing wave is being removed, and the Toll road was killed last year.

The core of engineers already approved the design for the park that doesn't have the toll road in it years ago, so everything should be ready to go.

Then on top of that 6 months ago after the rollaway was killed the mayor put the parks construction under the management of a public and private partnership agency.

And now we have the work going on for the water gardens along the trinity as well.

Something has to be going on and it makes no sense now for this to have just vanished. And the city still has that 50 million they have to use for the parks construction on top of whatever is left of that bond money.

So why the hell is this thing not moving forward at all?

Is this the usual Dallas shadyness with money pretty much going to consultants who turn out to be friends of the people in power?

This park is potentially the biggest game changer for the city and of course the idiots in power can't see their ass from a hole in the ground to get it moving.

Has anyone with any connections or insight heard anything about this?

Is it really just removing the standing wave that has been the last thing holding this up?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 18 Jun 2018 10:53

I have not heard anything and I'm extremely disappointed as well. I agree that this is THE biggest game changer for the city, and it seems like such a low priority.

The only explanation I can think of is that the city is trying to make the surrounding area more valuable so that, whenever this park does get built, maybe they are hoping for some private money to pay the bill as well.

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muncien
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 18 Jun 2018 11:05

At a bare minimum, they should be planting trees throughout the flood zone (as required by the COE). They have to have an idea where any 'potential' lakes and trails may go, and every other area should have at least sporadic trees. That way, they could at least take root and start growing, while we're sitting on our hands.
As for the standing wave... It seems silly that we have to remove this thing. I get that it was built poorly, and doesn't accomplish it's intended goal, but reworking it should be part of the grand plan, and not just leave a drained version of the river behind. Is it dangerous? Sure... But it's a river that floods several times a year, not a kiddie pool. There are a lot of kayakers around the world that laugh at our 'dangerous' standing wave... lol
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 18 Jun 2018 11:32

The problems with the standing wave begin with the reality that because we built it and not nature the city could be sued by people who will die trying to move through it. Yes, there are Kayakers that can handle it but the city has to provide a safe crossing of the river for all types and they failed to do so and to make it work would cost immensely more. Let the private org now charged with the design of the park build something better later on. The city messed up when they changed the design at the last minute from the visually appealing one and asked for a much much cheaper design and asked for every available shortcut so we got crap for a dollar store budget.

Last I heard the private org now tasked with management still has to get final designs for the park before it can start. They got basic concepts approved by the corp of engineers but not final blueprint designs with every detail of where each piece of dirt, tree, trench etc will go. Plus they need to raise money to build any of whats in the blueprints. Last estimates were well over 50 million for any park design submitted in the last 50years.


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