Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

[ContriveDallasite]

Any news on how the proposed park expansion is coming alone?

The amount of development spurred around the park has been amazing. It will be interesting to see if the expansion will have the same effect spurring development a few blocks west around where the Perot Tower was announced and also on the opposing side of the Freeway where the El Fenix land still sits blatantly under utilized.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

I hope it doesn't happen. It looks hideous and the thought of building a garage next door is asinine to me.... Come back with a better plan.

[tamtagon]

A big push for this garage and park extension is specifically to connect the Perot Museum to KWPark. A much better park purchase is lodged under the garden apartments between the Museum and N Houston St.

[cowboyeagle05]

They were pushing for matching funds from the next bond election if you remember the mayor twice canceled holding a bond election anytime soon. Lots of projects were promising matching funds if the city could chip in half. Most of those are now trying to reconfigure their plans KWP included. Pacific Plaza was going for a similar 50/50 deal but when that private developer jumped in with a proposal they instead offered to pay 100% of the park build. KWP I think is getting similar messages from City hall that they will need to be even more creative to fund any expansion.

[Cord1936]

Any news on how the proposed park expansion is coming alone?

The amount of development spurred around the park has been amazing. It will be interesting to see if the expansion will have the same effect spurring development a few blocks west around where the Perot Tower was announced and also on the opposing side of the Freeway where the El Fenix land still sits blatantly under utilized.

Klyde Warren Park Expansion Could Come to a Vote:

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Klyde-Warren-Park-Expansion-Could-Come-to-a-Vote-430450723.html

[Tivo_Kenevil]

The Parking garage is stupid. You literally have 6 lane streets everywhere surrounding the park. Convert that into parking lanes. The KWP foundation doesn't need a damn garage built for them.

[cowboyeagle05]

I can not condone spending so much money on a parking garage for Klyde Warren. If they want to argue about the skyway connection to Perot I think that has more things to discuss but the garage is a non-starter for me. Vote no and tell them to come back with a better realistic plan than parking garage and an over priced bridge over service roads.

[tamtagon]

I can not condone spending so much money on a parking garage for Klyde Warren.

Totally.

A deck park is a ridiculously expensive, and worth it. Deck Parking Garage? No way Jose.

Even the bridge to the Nature & Science Museum is a stretch in my opinion... why not go ahead an make this one a bridge on steroids, continuing programmable space all along the way from the deck park lawn to the science museum?

Build a parking garage and park headquarters on The Perot's surface lot. ---actually, go ahead and prep the space for the next expansion of the Museum and dig down for several levels for parking garage, however much administrative office space all in a structure prepped for additional construction that can midrise up for whatever exhibition space comes with the museum's eventual expansion.

If the idea is to build an architectural wonder and put a parking garage on the inside, then go ahead, but the city should not pay for it, that's what philanthropist are supposed to do.

[willyk]

I would be surprised if KWP makes it into the bond package. The City sees that KWP and the Perot have plenty of private support and could raise this money themselves. There are plenty of other worthy projects that don't have a moneyed following that need the City's money or they won't happen. They will have the priority of getting into the bond package.

One telltale sign is that Parks for DTD funded Pacific Plaza on their own rather than wait for bond money. They saw the writing on the wall.

[tamtagon]

...suspending a parking garage over a highway is regressive. The novelty, extensive programming, and people watching opportunities have made this a "destination park" drawing people from all over, and that's great. It cost a lot of money a much greater cost is born by Fair Park and the continued degradation of that destination park.

[Tnexster]

I don't mind the structure on the bridge as long as its just restaurant space or some kind of attraction. A parking garage isn't an attraction and quite honestly aren't they building enough of those in all the towers surrounding the park? Why can't they reach a deal with some of them?

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Dallas can't seem to understand parks are not meant for parks. The city boosters just can't grasp the concept.

[tamtagon]

I don't mind the structure on the bridge as long as its just restaurant space or some kind of attraction. A parking garage isn't an attraction and quite honestly aren't they building enough of those in all the towers surrounding the park? Why can't they reach a deal with some of them?

I rest one step further down this line of thinking, why can't the new, adjacent towers and/or new parking garage construction reach a deal to handle the restaurant space and other attractions as well as parking.

The area needs park space. There's still an overabundance of office space in the CBD for the park operators, there's even 10 floors of brand new office space with 10 floors of brand new parking in the Arts District.... Doesn't make any sense to build a tiny office or parking on a highway deck.

Add more park to the park.

[DPatel304]

A parking garage isn't an attraction and quite honestly aren't they building enough of those in all the towers surrounding the park? Why can't they reach a deal with some of them?

This makes the most sense. Maybe they could open up some of these garages to the public on the weekends. I'd imagine the types of people who commute and want to park in a parking garage are more likely to visit the park on a weekend anyway.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Seriously, if the extension of the "Park" has a garage on it ...then is it really a "Park" extension?..

..Well I guess it depends what type of "Park" you're talking about.

[Tnexster]

A parking garage isn't an attraction and quite honestly aren't they building enough of those in all the towers surrounding the park? Why can't they reach a deal with some of them?

This makes the most sense. Maybe they could open up some of these garages to the public on the weekends. I'd imagine the types of people who commute and want to park in a parking garage are more likely to visit the park on a weekend anyway.

Seriously, does anybody at city hall make that connection?

[flyswatter]

I'd imagine the types of people who commute and want to park in a parking garage are more likely to visit the park on a weekend anyway.

I think these are primarily the people that are from Plano/Frisco/etc who come from areas where immediate parking is just assumed instead of the Dallas residents that walk or take DART/trolley. They don't want to look for parking or park farther away than one block. The parking garage idea is geared towards making those people happy, but I'm not sure it will make Dallas residents (the ones potentially voting on it) particularly happy.

[DPatel304]

I think these are primarily the people that are from Plano/Frisco/etc who come from areas where immediate parking is just assumed instead of the Dallas residents that walk or take DART/trolley. They don't want to look for parking or park farther away than one block. The parking garage idea is geared towards making those people happy, but I'm not sure it will make Dallas residents (the ones potentially voting on it) particularly happy.

Most definitely. The stupid thing is, is that 99% of the metroplex caters to people like this. Pretty much any other park you go to will have surface parking right next to it, so if you're someone who hates walking, then you have plenty of other places to visit. I really hate it when we talk about making the few walk-able areas we have more 'car friendly'.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

I think these are primarily the people that are from Plano/Frisco/etc who come from areas where immediate parking is just assumed instead of the Dallas residents that walk or take DART/trolley. They don't want to look for parking or park farther away than one block. The parking garage idea is geared towards making those people happy, but I'm not sure it will make Dallas residents (the ones potentially voting on it) particularly happy.

Most definitely. The stupid thing is, is that 99% of the metroplex caters to people like this. Pretty much any other park you go to will have surface parking right next to it, so if you're someone who hates walking, then you have plenty of other places to visit. I really hate it when we talk about making the few walk-able areas we have more 'car friendly'.

It's being sold as parking for Restaurants and KWP foundation workers.

Which is even more preposterous..a non profit asking for 40 million for parking...GTFO....

[muncien]

What I don't get... It's not like the park is underutilized and we need a way to get more people to it. It's flippin PACKED! Probably the most successful park in the entire state! Why in the world would we want to spend $40 million to make it 'easier' to visit? It's doing quite well on it's own, isn't it?

[cowboyeagle05]

Yes and no. They still claim they need more profits to properly pay for its busy maintenance schedule. I don't doubt the truth of that cause the lawn is abused by thousands a week, busy programming etc. That park has become a national attraction in a sense because it floats over a highway. It gets a ton of wear and they know they will need to do major renovations as the months go by on lots of the biggest used spots like the children's area.

Since we turned down the special financing district they offered before adding some restaurants and parking is their way of trying to cut costs and increase more profit making opportunities. I still don't think this is the right solution though. Whether the parking is for Frisco or Dallasites is just the business team recognizing where profits could come from. I suggest they instead partner with a neighboring development on some solution for more sustainable fiancing to support a very active maintenance schedule.

The park suffers from too much success. It may take another wealthy donor to create an endowment that has a sustainable impact on their budget needs.

[gshelton91]

I agree the parking just is not logical... Between the Myerson, DMA and others there should be plenty of parking everyone just needs to get together and create an agreement that is in everyone's best interest.

I fully support them expanding the children's play ground in the new plans and even the spray feature on the East end of the park.... I am even good with the expansion in front of the Hunt building but the elevated walkway to the Perot seems like too much... with less money they could create a much better street level pedestrian experience to connect to the perot. In fact why not take the road between the DMA and the Nasher and turn that into a park? We could create more green space with the same or less money.

[lakewoodhobo]

In fact why not take the road between the DMA and the Nasher and turn that into a park? We could create more green space with the same or less money.

As much as we'd love to see Harwood closed and reprogrammed as an expansion of KWP, the DMA will never give up access to its garage or the bus lanes that are essential for school trips and such. The only reasonable use for that excess space is to combine the sidewalk and a lane of traffic into a trail.

Screen Shot 2017-08-01 at 2.16.19 PM.png

[muncien]

I don't know... I really think DMA could still use their motor court for VIP and bus drop off via Flora. Converting Harwood to pedestrian usage doesn't mean it can't be crossed from time to time for deliveries and such. This section of Harwood is the next logical space for transitioning to a more people-oriented corridor. I could still see food trucks parking along it a couple of days a week... or the occasional school field trip drop of... no problem. I rarely see it used for any purpose as it is now.

[cowboyeagle05]

I think it's really a matter of the city and the DMA having a meeting about what each other needs are if something were to change. Back when things were initially being discussed there was different management at the DMA and Klyde Warren wasn't the success it is now. Also, the DMA just reworked their Klyde Warren facing side to show their continued interest in connecting with its users. It is true though I walk to Klyde Warren at least once a week from my work Downtown and every time the Harwood street side has 5 or 6 busses parked in the shade of the trees. The Museum has to have adequate bus parking allocated for everyone's safety. Also though the Museum would benefit from an attraction such a vertical park along one side. It could bring them a rather successful events space that moves people from Klyde Warren to their main doors. They know such things would only enhance their image and potential of ticket paying visitors and lingering members. It just requires coordination from the area organizations and the city so things like buses are parked somewhere safe, reliable and without getting parking tickets.

[muncien]

This is actually a really good candidate for a short term trial. It's already routinely closed down for events on some weekends. We should take a 60-day or so period where the three entrances to this street are closed off with removable bollards. Permit some food trucks or vendors to occupy the space during that time period, and dedicate some free spaces for local artists to display (what? local art in the art district?). That should give all parties plenty of time to analyze actual disruption and benefit, all on a section of road that handles very little functional traffic. This would be extremely cheap to execute... I'd love to see it.

[cowboyeagle05]

I am curious about the food truck part though cause I wonder what their feed back would be. Klyde Warren seems like it has had less and fewer food trucks as the months have gone by. The variety has certainly gone down. I wonder if it's purely based on the weather, declining food truck trendiness, Klyde Warren management decisions etc.

I agree though you could easily do a Better Block style trial where the road is not permanently torn up simply blocked off by use of giant stones or what ever system the city will allow for the trial. Have some furniture design competitions, art stuff etc. Bike share demo setups paint the street with paint that will undoubtedly wear off rapidly.

City of Dallas is still not good at these things and Better Block is more focused on being paid by other cities to do Better Block events all over the country than to focus on more projects in Dallas. I am not criticizing them btw just being honest that Better Block is now a significant export around the world.

[tamtagon]

... Better Block is more focused on being paid by other cities to do Better Block events all over the country than to focus on more projects in Dallas. I am not criticizing them btw just being honest that Better Block is now a significant export around the world.

hahahaha it's funny cuz it's true.

Dallas should hire the Better Block folks to put bikes and pedestrians on Harwood from Katy Trail to Old City Park. Big project for sure, very complicated and a decade over due. Cars should still be able to use the street, of course, but bikes and people take priority.

[lakewoodhobo]

City of Dallas is still not good at these things and Better Block is more focused on being paid by other cities to do Better Block events all over the country than to focus on more projects in Dallas. I am not criticizing them btw just being honest that Better Block is now a significant export around the world.

Hopefully that's not true as my neighborhood association is working on a two-week Better Block demonstration in Oak Cliff. They still have an interest in doing what made them famous right here.

[cowboyeagle05]

City of Dallas is still not good at these things and Better Block is more focused on being paid by other cities to do Better Block events all over the country than to focus on more projects in Dallas. I am not criticizing them btw just being honest that Better Block is now a significant export around the world.

Hopefully, that's not true as my neighborhood association is working on a two-week Better Block demonstration in Oak Cliff. They still have an interest in doing what made them famous right here.

There are three things for me to explain myself here. One, the NEW of what they are doing in Oak Cliff is old news so they don't get the coverage like they used to. Second, they have been developing a workable business model for their brand of civic action. Third, I am glad to hear they are getting some continued work in Oak Cliff cause I don't think they abandoned ship or anything just needed to get their model past the grit and sweat stage and into something they can sustain. Not to mention they have proven their point in many ways and have gotten the support of the city planning industry.

The problem is the City of Dallas doesn't have the same flexibility or doesn't want to spend the money on hiring them on every site in the city that needs their type of work but I digress too much.

[lakewoodhobo]

Watching the City Council meeting today and heard that the garage plans have been modified. KWP says that the parking spaces still in the plan are city required, so they'll be asking for a waiver.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Watching the City Council meeting today and heard that the garage plans have been modified. KWP says that the parking spaces still in the plan are city required, so they'll be asking for a waiver.

Drop the stupid parking already

[Tucy]

Watching the City Council meeting today and heard that the garage plans have been modified. KWP says that the parking spaces still in the plan are city required, so they'll be asking for a waiver.

If the parking spaces are city required, why do they need a waiver?

[DPatel304]

Is the waiver to, potentially, get rid of the parking?

[CTroyMathis]

Harwood along DMA is so dead and drivers come out of the DMA garage like the two guys that stole the Ferrari in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

After the landscape arch. redo, there was an omission of a stop sign for both exits (Harwood & St. Paul). Fought for it's return, got a stop line. Either way, while better than nothing, it is regularly disregarded (slightly less than before, though) while the St. Paul exit does not see this same disregard at all. Shut that Harwood exit from DMA down yesterday and go right ahead and do some fun things w/Harwood to still include bus parking, a lane of traffic as nec., etc.

The DMA hardscape design is confusing to peds (auto drivers know where they need to be) because internal walks and drives look largely identical in some ways, almost as if there was indecision on whether it is a people plaza, mixed-traffic plaza, and so on by visitors and designers. . .

https://twitter.com/CTroyMathis/status/ ... 8037438465

[lakewoodhobo]

Here is a clip of Sandy Greyson asking the rep from KWP about the parking garage and the mention of a waiver:

https://vimeo.com/229719430

[Tucy]

^^ Thanks.

Quite bizarre. Initially, we were told the parking garage would generate revenue to help pay for the project (and future maintenance/improvements, etc etc. In fact, Jody Grant, the chair of the Woodall Rodgers Deck Park Foundation, told us that "Without the garage we would abandon the whole project." https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... -park-wait

[tamtagon]

Here is a clip of Sandy Greyson asking the rep from KWP about the parking garage and the mention of a waiver:

https://vimeo.com/229719430

maybe I'm seeing something that's not there, but the look on her face at the end was, well, um, I'm not sure what, but sure looked like she was gearing up for something!

Quite bizarre.

word

R.Wilonsky described building a parking garage over a highway, "Which is the most Dallas thing ever."

[Tnexster]

Would a parking garage deliver enough revenue to fund park maintenance and future improvements? I didn't get the impression that the parking garage was very big.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Would a parking garage deliver enough revenue to fund park maintenance and future improvements? I didn't get the impression that the parking garage was very big.

No.. the parking was for employees. I don't think it was for Public use.

The base of the garage was to be a restaurant of some sort. But I don't think that would've been enough to generate $ for park improvements.

It appears this was nothing more than just leverage for KWP to force the city to build the garage.

I for one hated it from the beginning and I hate the Perot extension as well. Looks odd ... Would rather use that money to improve Street side.

[cowboyeagle05]

I am assuming someone in City Hall told them a flat no on the garage so they are trying to rework plans and save face.

[tamtagon]

"...the most Dallas thing to do."

You'd think maybe one day this phrase will mean something good.

[gshelton91]

In fact why not take the road between the DMA and the Nasher and turn that into a park? We could create more green space with the same or less money.

As much as we'd love to see Harwood closed and reprogrammed as an expansion of KWP, the DMA will never give up access to its garage or the bus lanes that are essential for school trips and such. The only reasonable use for that excess space is to combine the sidewalk and a lane of traffic into a trail.

Screen Shot 2017-08-01 at 2.16.19 PM.png

I don't see a problem accommodating bus parking and entry/exit from the parking garage. One lane could be left open along the West side of the street next to the DMA... It could be used by the park when not needed for bus parking... That space between the DMA and the nasher would make outstanding park space... The DMA already has mature trees and a nice set back -- plus that court yard could be integrated into the park. this would provide much more usable workable park space than what is currently being proposed i think. With the money saved you could do all kinds of neat things with the park...

[dallaz]

Any updates on the expansion, since the bond package has passed?

[Cord1936]

Klyde Warren Park wins 2018 American Institute of Architects Award
by Patrick Lynch, ArchDaily.com, 02-02-18
...
The American Institute of Architects (AIA) has announced the winners of the 2018 Thomas Jefferson Award for service to public architecture and the 2018 Collaborative Achievement Award for distinguished achievements of those who have had a beneficial influence on or advanced the architectural profession.

The 2018 Collaborative Achievement Award – which “recognizes and encourages distinguished achievements of allied professionals, clients, organizations, architect teams, knowledge communities, and others who have had a beneficial influence on or advanced the architectural profession” – has been given to the Affordable Housing Design Leadership Institute and Klyde Warren Park.
...
Designed by The Office of James Burnett and completed in 2012, Klyde Warren Park reunited two areas of downtown Dallas previously separated by a freeway through a tremendous feat of engineering. Built from 300 concrete beams and slabs, the park is LEED Gold certified and is home to more than 300 trees and 37 native plant species.

“Klyde Warren Park healed a rift in Dallas where a freeway once divided two vital sections of the city, overcoming an obstacle that many residents feared was permanent,” the AIA explain. “The park, completed in 2012, required significant funding and buy-in from the public and private sectors, but the efforts resulted in 5 acres of activated, world-class green space that has redefined the city and its self-image.”

Article: https://www.archdaily.com/888347/aia-announces-2018-thomas-jefferson-award-and-collaborative-achievement-award-winners?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ArchDaily%20List&kth=1,495,931

[tamtagon]

Are plans still rolling along to build a parking garage, office, restaurant and elevated walkway to Nature & Science museum?

[Tucy]

Are plans still rolling along to build a parking garage, office, restaurant and elevated walkway to Nature & Science museum?

Let's hope not.

[tamtagon]

I understand Perot's desire to have a dedicated path from the super popular park to the museum, but that elevated walkway is just about as silly as the elevated parking garage.

Someone needs to convince the Museum-string-pullers to 1) put a flood light on the aspects of fracking and fossil fuel consumption still showing how great science has been to figure out extraction for the very potent energy source but also showing the challenges of pollution we have yet to solve, and 2) build a new park for the museum instead of building a ramp from the existing one.

This museum is very popular, and has some land for expansion, but Victory Park and LoMac residents still need a substantial park and green space, the museum NEEDS a park and green space and the Northend Apartments occupy what is becoming the most valuable, under-used plot of land in North Texas. Now what-if HQ2 chooses the Victory Park-to-West End location in downtown Dallas? A nice park sure would be a good thing.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Does Perot own North End? Converting that complex to multiple mixed use towers could go along in improving Houston street.

[tamtagon]

I don't know who owns that gold mine, but they need to cash out so the museum can have a lawn.