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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 12:17
by tamtagon
The one thing the downtown area park initiative continues to lack is a linear mobility-park, specific example is Harwood Street from Katy Trail to Old City Park.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 05 Apr 2018 09:14
by lakewoodhobo
tamtagon wrote:The one thing the downtown area park initiative continues to lack is a linear mobility-park, specific example is Harwood Street from Katy Trail to Old City Park.


I don't expect Parks for Downtown to care about Old City Park or the Katy Trail, but I do hope that once the new downtown parks are done and the master plan needs an update, they address the connective tissue between KWP and Harwood Park. There are some signs that they "get it".

Based on their previous interest in what they were calling "bowtie park" on Harwood, Canton, Park Ave and Cadiz maybe that will make the next master plan. It should be obvious by that point that Old City Park needs to connect to the Farmers Market, even if it just means a road diet on Harwood over I-30 that creates a bike-ped promenade of some sort. In fact, that could be done in a couple of years if the city really wanted it.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 05 Apr 2018 10:35
by tamtagon
The connection needs to extend all the way to William Blair, Jr (formerly Rochester Park). Over the next 50-100 years, the neighborhoods between the forest and downtown will experience the next great conversion.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 09 Apr 2018 11:54
by maconahey
Downtown Dallas park projects will create green space three times larger than Klyde Warren


https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... yde-warren

*Construction kicks off this month on Pacific Plaza, downtown Dallas' next major park and the first of four new green spaces planned in the next five years.

*"We are finally at the launch point," said Robert Decherd, chairman of Parks for Downtown Dallas, which has partnered with the city to build Pacific Plaza. "We are starting a sprint -- four new parks in five years."

*Along with Pacific Plaza, Parks for Downtown Dallas is finalizing plans for the 5.6-acre Carpenter Park on the eastern edge of the central business district. And near the Farmers Market, designs are almost complete for the 3.8-acre Harwood Park.

*Pacific Plaza, which breaks ground April 17, will take about 18 months to build.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 10 Apr 2018 00:44
by sterling
Wonderful news. Glad they are sprinting!

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 10 Apr 2018 08:56
by exelone31
Good news on the parks, pretty hilarious headline that's obviously attempting to SEO the crap out of the Klyde Warren Park name.

Editor: "I need a snappy headline for this article. Three new parks, you say? How big are they?"

Steve Brown: "Well, each one is around 4-5 acres, so 15-ish acres total?"

Editor: ....

Steve Brown: "About half the size of Reverchon Park."

Editor: "Reverend who?"

Steve Brown: "About the size of the Katy Trail."

Editor: "Too similar, I need smaller."

Steve Brown: "I mean, it's about three times the size of Klyde Warren Park, but it's also three parks, so it's not that apt of a compari-"

Editor: "DOWNTOWN DALLAS PARK PROJECTS WILL CREATE GREEN SPACE THREE TIMES LARGER THAN KLYDE WARREN"

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 10 Apr 2018 09:50
by cowboyeagle05
Yeah, I thought that was a bit of sensationalism for sure. Just good to hear they are pushing forward at a steady pace and not getting stuck on one park project. Sounds like they are able to keep negotiations going on Carpenter, geting construction going on Pacific Park and have already done some demo for Harwood Park. All the while picking out a designer for West End Plaza.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 10 Apr 2018 14:53
by Tucy
exelone31 wrote:Good news on the parks, pretty hilarious headline that's obviously attempting to SEO the crap out of the Klyde Warren Park name.

Editor: "I need a snappy headline for this article. Three new parks, you say? How big are they?"

Steve Brown: "Well, each one is around 4-5 acres, so 15-ish acres total?"

Editor: ....

Steve Brown: "About half the size of Reverchon Park."

Editor: "Reverend who?"

Steve Brown: "About the size of the Katy Trail."

Editor: "Too similar, I need smaller."

Steve Brown: "I mean, it's about three times the size of Klyde Warren Park, but it's also three parks, so it's not that apt of a compari-"

Editor: "DOWNTOWN DALLAS PARK PROJECTS WILL CREATE GREEN SPACE THREE TIMES LARGER THAN KLYDE WARREN"


Far more likely scenario:

Editor read Steve Brown's article and copied some of Steve's own words for the headline.
(No editor is likely to have to beg Steve Brown to be sensationalist.)

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 11 Apr 2018 14:37
by maconahey
Image

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 11 Apr 2018 15:31
by LongonBigD
That picture speaks volumes! I think this park will make a huge impact.

I really wish Dallas could work on West End park next, after this one instead of Carpenter Park. The West End is finally starting to show some life. Tourists still go there and the park would make such a more powerful impact on continuing the transition.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 12 Apr 2018 08:08
by lakewoodhobo
This is the visual that made it real for me. Permanent closure of Live Oak on 4/22.

08F4AB73-9297-4E8D-82E5-30707A0745CA.jpeg


I really wish Dallas could work on West End park next, after this one instead of Carpenter Park. The West End is finally starting to show some life. Tourists still go there and the park would make such a more powerful impact on continuing the transition.


I agree, imagine West End Plaza opening within a year of the Holocaust Museum and Luminary building. Part of the reason KWP felt like the start of a new era for downtown was that it opened along with the Perot Museum and Margaret Hunt bridge. Good things come in 3.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 13 Apr 2018 15:59
by dfwcre8tive
Interesting article/discussion about the function and purpose of parks in downtown Dallas.

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... ll-courts/

Klyde Warren taught Dallas an important lesson: because the city center itself does not yet have the street life and population to sustain regular old parks, successful parks in Dallas have to be open-air event facilities. Looking at the renderings of the new parks, however, it looks like the designers and backers have not fully appreciated this lesson. The most promising is Harwood Park, which will have a “ping pong alley” and space for concerts and events. Pacific Plaza will have some futuristic swings for the kids, but it mostly just offers lawn space and a big UFO-looking shade canopy. Carpenter Park is a strip of grass with a meandering path sitting on an island of land disconnected from the rest of downtown by DART’s awfully designed East Transfer Station. In other words, I don’t see a lot to do in these new parks. (UPDATE: As has been pointed out in the comments, I missed the fact that Carpenter Park is adding some basketball courts and a skate park, which is great.)

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 13 Apr 2018 16:10
by exelone31
The D article is pretty interesting, and points out that Belo and Main Street Garden are pretty spare in comparison to Klyde Warren. I think Main Street Garden will see a bit of a renaissance once everything surrounding it is up and running full-steam. I am curious to see how the other parks in that immediate area (Harwood, Pacific, Carpenter) will interact. Will one emerge as the overwhelming option, or will the density be a boon for all?

Belo Garden, on the other hand, may not be much more than what it currently is. To improve it, I think it'd be cool to put a large, signature art piece in there. Maybe devise a way to chisel off that "Rock of Truth" quote from the old DMN HQ and put it there. Or, copy the book/newspaper stand idea from Klyde Warren.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 13 Apr 2018 16:10
by DPatel304
They make a good point, but they are talking about 2018 Dallas. Pacific Plaza Park won't be completed until late next year, and who knows when the other parks will get built. By then we'll be looking at a city that is continually growing with more foot traffic and more residents. I know a year and a half won't make a huge difference, but in five years time, I don't think the fact that these parks don't have much to do will matter. Maybe nearby residents might prefer these parks as an escape from the overcrowded Klyde Warren.

Maybe these parks won't be as much of a destination as Klyde Warren, but there will, hopefully, be enough nearby residents who will utilize the parks, especially in a few years time when they are all done.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 13 Apr 2018 18:37
by Austin55
Damn, this is really going to be pretty.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 16 Apr 2018 09:13
by cowboyeagle05
I understand the articles point but I still think the gimmick of Klyde Warren is not something you can just share with other downtown parks. Klyde Warren is located just outside of the homeless barrier for one thing. Its built over a highway which does stick favorably in peoples mind. Its favored by some fairly significant real estate powerhouses that influence its success. The other Downtown Parks are dealing with real issues. Access to residents with different needs than that of Klyde Warren. Not every park can be a destination park and Klyde Warren was built as a landmark project to attract attention far and wide.

Main Street Gardens can certainly build a good relationship with the hotels for more events but it honestly was designed for events already. It has two built-in stages and frequently needs lots of work to its lawn because of all the use from those events and neighborhood use keep the lawn looking dead. I am curious to what level Downtown Dallas Parks plans to event schedule Pacific Plaza cause it looks like it will also be popular for bigger festivals that Main Street cant handle.

I can agree with Belo Gardens though criticisms though. Belo itself messed that one up with their paywall between the Metropolitan and the park. Its design is mostly trying to be some terrible downtown garden park/arboretum rather than something useful for the neighborhood. It definitely seems like a park lost in its own intentions. The good thing is as Downtown evolves these parks can easily go through renovations based on use.

There are not parking garages below them restricting how the parks can be reinterpreted. All Downtown Dallas Parks foundation has to do is raise the money and block off a section and make the needed changes if they need to.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 17 Apr 2018 01:43
by willyk
Carpenter Park will have basketball, skate park, dog park, bocce, kids area, stage, wet area and food trucks. So by the article’s standards, this is very promising.

http://parksfordowntowndallas.org/carpenter-park/

As far as Belo Garden— he’s right. Turn the restaurant pavillion into a multi-use ball court with a place for a couple of food trucks, and the park would be full of users.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 17 Apr 2018 10:37
by cowboyeagle05
After reading the article more carefully I think the author counters himself on many accounts but I do read what his intention is. He at least recognizes that Klyde Warren is a destination and shouldn't be the only goal for Downtown parks. I do think athletic access is something worth pursuing but I am not sure that Main Street is the right place for it either. I do agree the green shelters haven't turned out useful and they were intended as art pieces, so very Dallas.

The author acknowledges this in some way, Main Street is the first attempt in the new age of Downtown Parks and Belo is the second. Harwood and Carpenter do have the elements he is requesting and I wouldn't mind seeing a unique version of athletic courts integrated into other downtown parks. For example, Harwood will be integrating historical building shells to preserve the historic architecture which creates cool rooms of activity. It would be great to hide a basketball court in such a way with a brick of a historical building. That way it's not some garish basketball court with ugly metal fencing. I am totally on board for using the spaces under the highways for this if possible when it makes sense. I think the author has some romanticism for these inner-city courts though and many residential areas sometimes petition cities to remove athletic facilities depending on how they are masked and lit for night time games so there is a balance.

Belo Gardens was always built and funded by Belo to be a garden of quiet respite away from the city etc which I agree is impractical and disjointed from the reality of its location and neighborhood needs.

To be real though Main Street and Belo were built with a grandiose expectation of impressing visitors and out of towners with two parks that would endcap a revitalized Main Street District with Pegasus Plaza in the middle. The ideas the author is pushing are more deeply rooted in neighborhood parks that actually live outside the tourism needs and focus on serving localized residents like Cole Park and Reverchon Park do already.

I think our biggest battles Downtown will always be impressing visitors and attending to a real Downtown neighborhood. Only in the CBD is this the most pressing because the city of Dallas tries to accommodate both patterns in areas like Main Street.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 18 Apr 2018 09:39
by lakewoodhobo
cowboyeagle05 wrote:For example, Harwood will be integrating historical building shells to preserve the historic architecture which creates cool rooms of activity. It would be great to hide a basketball court in such a way with a brick of a historical building. That way it's not some garish basketball court with ugly metal fencing.


My understanding of the plans for Harwood Park is that the remaining buildings are to be repurposed for offices, events, a sports pavilion, etc. There won't be any shells or pieces of buildings to display as relics of the past.

Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Posted: 18 Apr 2018 10:25
by cowboyeagle05
lakewoodhobo wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:For example, Harwood will be integrating historical building shells to preserve the historic architecture which creates cool rooms of activity. It would be great to hide a basketball court in such a way with a brick of a historical building. That way it's not some garish basketball court with ugly metal fencing.


My understanding of the plans for Harwood Park is that the remaining buildings are to be repurposed for offices, events, a sports pavilion, etc. There won't be any shells or pieces of buildings to display as relics of the past.


That's what I mean by preserving history while hiding some functions. I could easily see a brick facade making a basketball court blend with a park better than just some super tall chainlink fencing. Keep it mostly open as a basketball court would be, but using brick facades or something similar can do a lot for making sports courts look less like just a hoop in a parking lot.

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