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Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

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dukemeredith
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Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 13 Dec 2016 14:56

Image
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It's been a while since I had heard anything about this park, and lo, earlier this month there was an article in the DMN. How did I miss that?!

A former A. H. Belo Corporation chairman's foundation is offering to build downtown Dallas a new public park at no cost to taxpayers.

Park Board President Max Wells announced Thursday that Robert Decherd's Parks for Downtown Dallas agreed to pay $15 million to build the park at Pacific Plaza. The offer could bury a competing proposal supported by political and business heavyweights to construct a 1,500-space underground parking garage that would be topped by a park on the site.

Decherd's foundation has offered to give the city $44 million in cash and land for four downtown parks. But first, the city would have to commit $35 million in matching funds.

The move also means the park could be completed quicker because construction won't have to wait for the city to issue bonds. Sims, who had opposed the parking garage plan, said the expedited construction was "the true catalyst."

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/downtown-dallas/2016/12/01/foundation-offers-pay-full-cost-downtown-dallas-park-rivals-vie-site

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby Tnexster » 15 Dec 2016 15:13

Dallas Park Board approves plan for privately funded Pacific Plaza park, but fight isn't over

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-c ... park-fight

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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 16 Dec 2016 12:23

The number and breadth of proposals there have been for this lot is amazing. From 100 story skyscrapers, to 1,500 car underground garages, to just a plain, simple park. Fascinating!

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muncien
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby muncien » 20 Dec 2016 08:42

I'm not opposed to a parking garage underneath this proposed park, but the competing design seemed to showcase the garage front and center, and the functional aspect of the 'park' paid the price. Surely, they could have reworked it to make it more appealing (i.e. not even seeing the garage), but that wasn't their intent.
The current proposal for the park is superior in every way... other than parking cars, of course. And I'm okay with that. :)
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby electricron » 20 Dec 2016 10:14

muncien wrote:The current proposal for the park is superior in every way... other than parking cars, of course. And I'm okay with that. :)

I'm not surprised to read the Park Commission prefers a real park over an underground parking garage with a small park on top.
This land was not granted to the city to become a parking garage. :shock:

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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 20 Dec 2016 11:51

I'm not opposed to the parking garage under the park, either. But I wholeheartedly agree with muncien -- the garage needs to be discrete.

I've always enjoyed Fountain Place's underground garage entry and exit, both running parallel to Field Street.

Why not consider putting this set up along Harwood Street for Pacific Plaza? Wouldn't this be cheaper than a high-tech, automatic garage with a car elevator?

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 14 Jan 2017 08:17

Parks For Downtown Dallas sounds ready to get started on this thing. I'm hopeful that means breaking ground in the spring.

From their FB page: "Have you heard the latest? Pacific Plaza has been given the green light! The Dallas Park and Recreation Department is working with PfDD on a development agreement to design and build Pacific Plaza, the first of the city’s four new downtown priority parks.

Once the contract is approved, construction, which is estimated to take 20-24 months, will begin. Efforts to get bond dollars to assist in the creation of Carpenter Park, Harwood Park and West End Plaza will continue."

IMG_8500.JPG


Is it just me or does this design have a LOT less green than before?
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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 14 Jan 2017 13:03

It's not just you.

That design looks like a 60-40 grass to concrete ratio. What's wrong with a simple, green park?

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby homeworld1031tx » 15 Jan 2017 11:05

dukemeredith wrote:It's not just you.

That design looks like a 60-40 grass to concrete ratio. What's wrong with a simple, green park?


Counterpoint: whats wrong with plazas?

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dfwcre8tive » 15 Jan 2017 22:32

homeworld1031tx wrote:
dukemeredith wrote:It's not just you.

That design looks like a 60-40 grass to concrete ratio. What's wrong with a simple, green park?


Counterpoint: whats wrong with plazas?


I don't mind plazas if there are large, mature trees or shade structures. Without that, this place will be more like Dallas City Hall plaza. The current trees at Aston Park are a nice size 30 years after being planted.

On a similar note, will the "Aston Park" name be incorporated anywhere into this new park? Perhaps "Aston Grove" or "Aston Promenade"? It would be nice to relocate the medallion and honor the legacy/history of this space in some way.

If "Pacific Plaza" is the final chosen name, the current Pacific Plaza will need to be renamed.

Image

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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 16 Jan 2017 12:10

homeworld1031tx wrote:Counterpoint: whats wrong with plazas?


I don't mind plazas -- but I don't like a plaza on this location. There are other concrete-based plazas mere blocks away:

- Plaza of the Americas (plazas in front of entrances)
- Energy Plaza
- Cancer Survivors Plaza
- Intersection of Pacific and Ervay
- Federal Plaza (granted, quite small)

I think, for this location, a true "park" of grass and trees without a large concrete stage would better suit the neighborhood. Something simple like this:
Image

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby Tnexster » 16 Jan 2017 14:21

IF it has as many trees as pictured in the other rendering it might be ok and it is a vast improvement either way.

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willyk
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby willyk » 17 Jan 2017 05:19

I like the new axis that is developing on St. Paul with all of the projects from the Statler to Tower/Corrigan to this plaza.

Are there still plans for the Hartford building? That would make make for a nice walk from the Trolley stop all the way to the Statler. Maybe we'll finally get some retail in the Titche's building and Republic.

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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 17 Jan 2017 08:29

willyk wrote:I like the new axis that is developing on St. Paul with all of the projects from the Statler to Tower/Corrigan to this plaza.

Are there still plans for the Hartford building? That would make make for a nice walk from the Trolley stop all the way to the Statler. Maybe we'll finally get some retail in the Titche's building and Republic.


If I'm not mistaken, the Hartford Building spruce-up is finished (or nearly finished. Were they also supposed to re-do the pocket park?) and the ground floor retail looks to be entirely occupied.

Retail in the vacant Republic Center space would be wonderful! They're probably waiting for the park to boost foot-traffic, though.

And the empty Titche's space is absolutely beautiful -- I hope someone does right by that space.

Hopefully the Corrigan Tower redevelopment will show its neighbors the way.

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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 17 Jan 2017 08:30

Really love this area, though. Many great examples of mid-century architecture.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 09 Mar 2017 15:28

Latest updated on this, from March 1.

We're thrilled to announce two recent wins for Parks for Downtown Dallas! Last Thursday, the Park Board unanimously approved the deal points for the Development and Operating Endowment Agreements between the City of Dallas and Parks for Downtown Dallas.

Additionally, this Monday, February 27, the City Council Quality of Life Committee unanimously approved the same deal points, so contract negotiations between PfDD and the City Attorney's Office can begin.

Next up? The Pacific Plaza Development and Operating Endowment Agreements are scheduled to go to the City Council on March 22. Stay tuned for updates!

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 22 Mar 2017 21:51

Approved today and fully funded.

IMG_9860.PNG
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 22 Mar 2017 22:39


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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 23 Mar 2017 11:52

dukemeredith wrote:Here's the DMN article:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/downtown ... n-15m-gift


Not clear when remediation would start and how long it would take, but I'm curious about when Live Oak will close to traffic.

Parks for Downtown Dallas president Amy Meadows said that once remediation is done, which the group hopes will be early 2018, construction of the park will begin and take 12 to 18 months.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby willyk » 24 Mar 2017 02:06

It would be exciting if the Tower/Corrigan renovation were done by then--anybody know their schedule?

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 26 Apr 2017 13:18

Updated rendering. The mound no longer has that floating visor around it.
C98k9qUUwBcrXab.jpg
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 26 Apr 2017 13:30

lakewoodhobo wrote:Updated rendering. The mound no longer has that floating visor around it.
C98k9qUUwBcrXab.jpg


What's the point of the mound area of it has no visor? Might as well just be all grass.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby muncien » 26 Apr 2017 13:35

So, is there no designated food truck parking around this new park? Seems like a lost opportunity...
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 05 Jun 2017 16:48

On page 73 of the CPC agenda for this week, you'll see the replat for Pacific Plaza that closes Live Oak Street from Harwood to N St. Paul Street.

Screen Shot 2017-06-05 at 4.48.14 PM.png


http://dallascityhall.com/government/me ... _FINAL.pdf
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 14 Nov 2017 23:21

Is this park kicking off this year, as originally announced?

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby mdg109 » 15 Nov 2017 23:22

I don't think this one is planned to start until early next year.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 16 Nov 2017 09:59

I can't find an update since September, but a video they posted then said "early 2018". Assuming they have all the funding and permitting to begin, it would be nice to start the year with Live Oak closed for construction.

Screen Shot 2017-11-16 at 9.56.40 AM.png


A related story in the DMN form yesterday says "In the best-case scenario, Pacific Plaza would be finished in late 2019 and open in early 2020, Decherd said."

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/downtow ... -bond-vote
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby DPatel304 » 16 Nov 2017 12:52

Also from the article:
Decherd said he'd ideally like to complete Carpenter Park within a year of Pacific Plaza's completion. He believes Harwood Park will take 18 months to two years after that. The West End park, he said, is "the wild card" because it's the smallest site and could conceivably be done simultaneously with others.


I didn't realize it would take so long to complete all of these parks, but maybe I was being too optimistic. Good to have some more concrete information on all of this though.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby Brettoj » 16 Nov 2017 13:08

DPatel304 wrote:Also from the article:
Decherd said he'd ideally like to complete Carpenter Park within a year of Pacific Plaza's completion. He believes Harwood Park will take 18 months to two years after that. The West End park, he said, is "the wild card" because it's the smallest site and could conceivably be done simultaneously with others.


I didn't realize it would take so long to complete all of these parks, but maybe I was being too optimistic. Good to have some more concrete information on all of this though.


No kidding. Seems quite simple to dig up a parking lot and add some plants and paving.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 16 Nov 2017 14:03

Decherd said he's in "a holding pattern" in the meantime, but is optimistic the city and DART will use "common sense" and make decisions that will allow the park to move forward quickly.

"This thing has been disrupted for seven years," he said. "I don't know about you, but if I were the Carpenter family, I'd be running low on patience.


He's really pushing for Carpenter Plaza (my least favorite of the four) and says the Carpenter Family is growing impatient with delays related to 345 and D2.

All four new parks will have naming rights on the table, so why not give Parks For Downtown Dallas the $3M and rename Pacific Plaza for John Carpenter instead? It'll be confusing for a hot second, but a win-win.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 16 Nov 2017 14:19

Brettoj wrote:
DPatel304 wrote:Also from the article:
Decherd said he'd ideally like to complete Carpenter Park within a year of Pacific Plaza's completion. He believes Harwood Park will take 18 months to two years after that. The West End park, he said, is "the wild card" because it's the smallest site and could conceivably be done simultaneously with others.


I didn't realize it would take so long to complete all of these parks, but maybe I was being too optimistic. Good to have some more concrete information on all of this though.


No kidding. Seems quite simple to dig up a parking lot and add some plants and paving.


It's a lot more than that of course. Many of these Downtown parking lots were developed by just paving over foundations of the old buildings torn down in the excitement of an 80's office tower that never got past the drawings. Some of these park sites could be discovered to have serious pollution issues. There are a ton of regulations about what would have to happen if the soil was found to be poisoned by let's say decades-old laundromat that previously existed on the site and was simply paved over. Not to mention utilities that may have to be upgraded that cross through parts of a park that the city would have to wait for another private entity to modify or upgrade.

There are a lot of things that can slow it down once you start tearing the soil up. Keep in mind when Main Street Gardens was built they found stuff from old buildings no longer standing and had to carefully remove the pieces and document it. They incorporated some of that stuff into the park's design after the fact. At least we are not a city like Rome where everywhere some digs you discover an archeological site that stops all construction until proper evacuation by an approved archeologist.

A lot of these reasons is why some have requested that these parks just be one big green space and cut out all the special design features and programmed spaces. Some would prefer just big green grass areas edged with trees and call it done.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Dec 2017 14:49

In a blog post from December 8th, the visor is back but designed differently with some other small changes to the overall park design.

The bond measure also allows the city to make significant investments in its libraries, cultural centers and parks system, providing $35 million in funding that will guarantee the completion of three more Downtown parks: Carpenter Park, Harwood Park and West End Plaza.

http://parksfordowntowndallas.org/looking-forward-2018-around-downtown-dallas/

Updated design
December-14-Pacific-Plaza-10.49.57-AM.png


Previously posted design...
C98k9qUUwBcrXab.jpg
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby DPatel304 » 30 Mar 2018 23:39

Groundbreaking set for downtown Dallas park near Majestic Theatre
Construction of a downtown Dallas park will start next month with a groundbreaking ceremony April 17.

Pacific Plaza is expected to be completed in 18 months.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/downtow ... ic-theatre

Looks like they are about to get started on this one. There's a picture (posted by lakewoodhobo) in the Harwood Park thread that indicates that park may also see some activity soon too? I was under the impression that these parks would be built one after the other and not simultaneously, so I'm not sure what's going on.

Also, I was under the impression that this small stretch of Live Oak would disappear completely and become part of the park, but the article says this. The wording is confusion, so I'm not sure what that means:
A portion of Live Oak Street will be covered by the new park. Commuters should look for traffic alerts in the coming days.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby jrd1964 » 01 Apr 2018 18:38

It isn't worded well, but Live Oak is going away between St. Paul and Harwood. I don't know if there will be a media blitz or digital construction message boards or what for alerting drivers about the closure.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby exelone31 » 02 Apr 2018 15:37

Really excited to see this one kick off. Of the new parks that are proposed for downtown, I think this is the one that will be the most impactful.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby Matt777 » 02 Apr 2018 16:23

Are there plans for something that will activate this park? Like a snack/drink stand, food truck area, performance space, etc?

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby jrd1964 » 03 Apr 2018 05:47

They would at least need rolling carts and/or food trucks around. There really isn't that much to eat/drink close to where the park will be. Surely there are plans somewhat similar to Klyde as far as events/programming go.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby exelone31 » 03 Apr 2018 08:44

I wonder if it would make sense to carve out a lane in the foreground of the updated rendering for food trucks, similar to what Klyde Warren has on the Arts District side of the park.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby Matt777 » 03 Apr 2018 10:47

exelone31 wrote:I wonder if it would make sense to carve out a lane in the foreground of the updated rendering for food trucks, similar to what Klyde Warren has on the Arts District side of the park.


I would support that. Along with a water feature. If not, it might just end up being a pretty garden space that is pretty dead.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 03 Apr 2018 11:34

In announcing that Friday is the last day that the parking lot will be open, Parks for Downtown released another rendering with a different version of the shade structure.

Image

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby tamtagon » 03 Apr 2018 12:39

I don't remember -- is this park on top of a big parking garage?

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby DPatel304 » 03 Apr 2018 12:43

tamtagon wrote:I don't remember -- is this park on top of a big parking garage?


I believe that was originally the idea, but wasn't that idea nixed a while ago?

EDIT: Here is an article about the underground parking garage:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... ing-garage

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dukemeredith » 03 Apr 2018 19:11

Do I spot a water feature in this latest rendering?

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 04 Apr 2018 08:35

Current renderings posted on the Parks for Downtown website show a water feature as has been in the plans since the beginning. No parking garage. Overhead layout renderings have shown Food Truck parking zones as well. Water fountains are popular for naming rights and are obvious choices in Texas summers so they were never going to do it without a water feature.

You can see parts of the updated rendering posted above in this blog post...http://parksfordowntowndallas.org/look- ... ssociates/

Food Truck Parking is located where the red box is in this older rendering version. Yellow is the water feature in its previous design scheme. There is a seating area with tables and chairs in the rendering next to the curbside food truck parking.
Screen Shot 2018-04-04 at 8.40.25 AM.png
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 04 Apr 2018 09:13

I like it. To bad I don't think this will spur any Development

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 04 Apr 2018 09:34

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I like it. To bad I don't think this will spur any Development


You could argue that Corrigan Tower was redeveloped because it would face the park, but who knows (there were several renderings of the park in their construction office for a long time). I'll remain optimistic and hope that the parking lot at Harwood and Pacific could be next.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby tamtagon » 04 Apr 2018 11:02

The Sheraton becomes an entirely different property with a park across the street.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby exelone31 » 04 Apr 2018 11:49

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Current renderings posted on the Parks for Downtown website show a water feature as has been in the plans since the beginning. No parking garage. Overhead layout renderings have shown Food Truck parking zones as well. Water fountains are popular for naming rights and are obvious choices in Texas summers so they were never going to do it without a water feature.

You can see parts of the updated rendering posted above in this blog post...http://parksfordowntowndallas.org/look- ... ssociates/

Food Truck Parking is located where the red box is in this older rendering version. Yellow is the water feature in its previous design scheme. There is a seating area with tables and chairs in the rendering next to the curbside food truck parking.
Screen Shot 2018-04-04 at 8.40.25 AM.png


Thanks cowboyeagle, great spot!

I would disagree that this park won't spur any development. Look at what's happened around both Klyde Warren (the gold standard) and even Main Street Garden (the Statler, UNT Law, DMN, etc). There are tons of surface lots between Elm and Pacific that would be perfect for development, as they've got easy access to Pacific Plaza, Carpenter Park and Main Street Garden.

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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby dfwcre8tive » 04 Apr 2018 11:58

tamtagon wrote:The Sheraton becomes an entirely different property with a park across the street.


The Great American Insurance Co building at 2020 Live Oak has potential as well, but it was just upgraded to a more robust data center last year. Remove the Olive cutoff and Pacific Plaza pocket park and there's area for new development.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ata-center

The three vacant blocks between Elm/Pacific and Harwood/Cesar Chavez along with the DART parcel have the most potential in this next round of park development. All are adjacent to a massive parking garage and sandwiched between new/revamped parks.

In this quick diagram: green=parks; yellow=redevelopment/addition; blue=historic district (buildable, with guidelines); red=underutilized

map.jpg
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Re: Downtown - Pacific Plaza Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 04 Apr 2018 12:10

dfwcre8tive wrote:Remove the Olive cutoff and Pacific Plaza pocket park and there's area for new development.


Screen Shot 2018-04-04 at 12.04.31 PM.jpg


I've always assumed that the pocket park was controlled by Parks Department, but I see now that DCAD doesn't even have it listed and is probably just a street median. In that case, great idea to clean up the grid there and build something useful. Maybe even recreate the famous Coca-Cola sign that used to be on Live Oak.

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