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Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

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ContriveDallasite
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Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby ContriveDallasite » 27 Mar 2017 06:01

Any news on how the proposed park expansion is coming alone?

The amount of development spurred around the park has been amazing. It will be interesting to see if the expansion will have the same effect spurring development a few blocks west around where the Perot Tower was announced and also on the opposing side of the Freeway where the El Fenix land still sits blatantly under utilized.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Mar 2017 09:23

I hope it doesn't happen. It looks hideous and the thought of building a garage next door is asinine to me.... Come back with a better plan.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby tamtagon » 27 Mar 2017 09:43

A big push for this garage and park extension is specifically to connect the Perot Museum to KWPark. A much better park purchase is lodged under the garden apartments between the Museum and N Houston St.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 28 Mar 2017 17:04

They were pushing for matching funds from the next bond election if you remember the mayor twice canceled holding a bond election anytime soon. Lots of projects were promising matching funds if the city could chip in half. Most of those are now trying to reconfigure their plans KWP included. Pacific Plaza was going for a similar 50/50 deal but when that private developer jumped in with a proposal they instead offered to pay 100% of the park build. KWP I think is getting similar messages from City hall that they will need to be even more creative to fund any expansion.

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Cord1936
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Cord1936 » 24 Jun 2017 13:08

ContriveDallasite wrote:Any news on how the proposed park expansion is coming alone?

The amount of development spurred around the park has been amazing. It will be interesting to see if the expansion will have the same effect spurring development a few blocks west around where the Perot Tower was announced and also on the opposing side of the Freeway where the El Fenix land still sits blatantly under utilized.


Klyde Warren Park Expansion Could Come to a Vote:

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Klyde-Warren-Park-Expansion-Could-Come-to-a-Vote-430450723.html

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 24 Jun 2017 23:20

The Parking garage is stupid. You literally have 6 lane streets everywhere surrounding the park. Convert that into parking lanes. The KWP foundation doesn't need a damn garage built for them.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Jun 2017 13:56

I can not condone spending so much money on a parking garage for Klyde Warren. If they want to argue about the skyway connection to Perot I think that has more things to discuss but the garage is a non-starter for me. Vote no and tell them to come back with a better realistic plan than parking garage and an over priced bridge over service roads.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby tamtagon » 26 Jun 2017 15:37

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I can not condone spending so much money on a parking garage for Klyde Warren.


Totally.

A deck park is a ridiculously expensive, and worth it. Deck Parking Garage? No way Jose.

Even the bridge to the Nature & Science Museum is a stretch in my opinion... why not go ahead an make this one a bridge on steroids, continuing programmable space all along the way from the deck park lawn to the science museum?

Build a parking garage and park headquarters on The Perot's surface lot. ---actually, go ahead and prep the space for the next expansion of the Museum and dig down for several levels for parking garage, however much administrative office space all in a structure prepped for additional construction that can midrise up for whatever exhibition space comes with the museum's eventual expansion.

If the idea is to build an architectural wonder and put a parking garage on the inside, then go ahead, but the city should not pay for it, that's what philanthropist are supposed to do.

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willyk
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby willyk » 27 Jun 2017 03:01

I would be surprised if KWP makes it into the bond package. The City sees that KWP and the Perot have plenty of private support and could raise this money themselves. There are plenty of other worthy projects that don't have a moneyed following that need the City's money or they won't happen. They will have the priority of getting into the bond package.

One telltale sign is that Parks for DTD funded Pacific Plaza on their own rather than wait for bond money. They saw the writing on the wall.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby tamtagon » 27 Jun 2017 08:51

...suspending a parking garage over a highway is regressive. The novelty, extensive programming, and people watching opportunities have made this a "destination park" drawing people from all over, and that's great. It cost a lot of money a much greater cost is born by Fair Park and the continued degradation of that destination park.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tnexster » 28 Jun 2017 22:09

I don't mind the structure on the bridge as long as its just restaurant space or some kind of attraction. A parking garage isn't an attraction and quite honestly aren't they building enough of those in all the towers surrounding the park? Why can't they reach a deal with some of them?

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 28 Jun 2017 23:07

Dallas can't seem to understand parks are not meant for parks. The city boosters just can't grasp the concept.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby tamtagon » 29 Jun 2017 09:01

Tnexster wrote:I don't mind the structure on the bridge as long as its just restaurant space or some kind of attraction. A parking garage isn't an attraction and quite honestly aren't they building enough of those in all the towers surrounding the park? Why can't they reach a deal with some of them?


I rest one step further down this line of thinking, why can't the new, adjacent towers and/or new parking garage construction reach a deal to handle the restaurant space and other attractions as well as parking.

The area needs park space. There's still an overabundance of office space in the CBD for the park operators, there's even 10 floors of brand new office space with 10 floors of brand new parking in the Arts District.... Doesn't make any sense to build a tiny office or parking on a highway deck.

Add more park to the park.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby DPatel304 » 29 Jun 2017 09:35

Tnexster wrote:A parking garage isn't an attraction and quite honestly aren't they building enough of those in all the towers surrounding the park? Why can't they reach a deal with some of them?


This makes the most sense. Maybe they could open up some of these garages to the public on the weekends. I'd imagine the types of people who commute and want to park in a parking garage are more likely to visit the park on a weekend anyway.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 29 Jun 2017 09:45

Seriously, if the extension of the "Park" has a garage on it ...then is it really a "Park" extension?..

..Well I guess it depends what type of "Park" you're talking about.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tnexster » 29 Jun 2017 09:47

DPatel304 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:A parking garage isn't an attraction and quite honestly aren't they building enough of those in all the towers surrounding the park? Why can't they reach a deal with some of them?


This makes the most sense. Maybe they could open up some of these garages to the public on the weekends. I'd imagine the types of people who commute and want to park in a parking garage are more likely to visit the park on a weekend anyway.


Seriously, does anybody at city hall make that connection?

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby flyswatter » 29 Jun 2017 09:49

DPatel304 wrote: I'd imagine the types of people who commute and want to park in a parking garage are more likely to visit the park on a weekend anyway.


I think these are primarily the people that are from Plano/Frisco/etc who come from areas where immediate parking is just assumed instead of the Dallas residents that walk or take DART/trolley. They don't want to look for parking or park farther away than one block. The parking garage idea is geared towards making those people happy, but I'm not sure it will make Dallas residents (the ones potentially voting on it) particularly happy.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby DPatel304 » 29 Jun 2017 10:05

flyswatter wrote:I think these are primarily the people that are from Plano/Frisco/etc who come from areas where immediate parking is just assumed instead of the Dallas residents that walk or take DART/trolley. They don't want to look for parking or park farther away than one block. The parking garage idea is geared towards making those people happy, but I'm not sure it will make Dallas residents (the ones potentially voting on it) particularly happy.


Most definitely. The stupid thing is, is that 99% of the metroplex caters to people like this. Pretty much any other park you go to will have surface parking right next to it, so if you're someone who hates walking, then you have plenty of other places to visit. I really hate it when we talk about making the few walk-able areas we have more 'car friendly'.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 29 Jun 2017 10:39

DPatel304 wrote:
flyswatter wrote:I think these are primarily the people that are from Plano/Frisco/etc who come from areas where immediate parking is just assumed instead of the Dallas residents that walk or take DART/trolley. They don't want to look for parking or park farther away than one block. The parking garage idea is geared towards making those people happy, but I'm not sure it will make Dallas residents (the ones potentially voting on it) particularly happy.


Most definitely. The stupid thing is, is that 99% of the metroplex caters to people like this. Pretty much any other park you go to will have surface parking right next to it, so if you're someone who hates walking, then you have plenty of other places to visit. I really hate it when we talk about making the few walk-able areas we have more 'car friendly'.



It's being sold as parking for Restaurants and KWP foundation workers.

Which is even more preposterous..a non profit asking for 40 million for parking...GTFO....

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muncien
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby muncien » 29 Jun 2017 11:14

What I don't get... It's not like the park is underutilized and we need a way to get more people to it. It's flippin PACKED! Probably the most successful park in the entire state! Why in the world would we want to spend $40 million to make it 'easier' to visit? It's doing quite well on it's own, isn't it?

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 30 Jun 2017 10:41

Yes and no. They still claim they need more profits to properly pay for its busy maintenance schedule. I don't doubt the truth of that cause the lawn is abused by thousands a week, busy programming etc. That park has become a national attraction in a sense because it floats over a highway. It gets a ton of wear and they know they will need to do major renovations as the months go by on lots of the biggest used spots like the children's area.

Since we turned down the special financing district they offered before adding some restaurants and parking is their way of trying to cut costs and increase more profit making opportunities. I still don't think this is the right solution though. Whether the parking is for Frisco or Dallasites is just the business team recognizing where profits could come from. I suggest they instead partner with a neighboring development on some solution for more sustainable fiancing to support a very active maintenance schedule.

The park suffers from too much success. It may take another wealthy donor to create an endowment that has a sustainable impact on their budget needs.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby gshelton91 » 28 Jul 2017 10:33

I agree the parking just is not logical... Between the Myerson, DMA and others there should be plenty of parking everyone just needs to get together and create an agreement that is in everyone's best interest.

I fully support them expanding the children's play ground in the new plans and even the spray feature on the East end of the park.... I am even good with the expansion in front of the Hunt building but the elevated walkway to the Perot seems like too much... with less money they could create a much better street level pedestrian experience to connect to the perot. In fact why not take the road between the DMA and the Nasher and turn that into a park? We could create more green space with the same or less money.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 01 Aug 2017 14:24

gshelton91 wrote: In fact why not take the road between the DMA and the Nasher and turn that into a park? We could create more green space with the same or less money.


As much as we'd love to see Harwood closed and reprogrammed as an expansion of KWP, the DMA will never give up access to its garage or the bus lanes that are essential for school trips and such. The only reasonable use for that excess space is to combine the sidewalk and a lane of traffic into a trail.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby muncien » 01 Aug 2017 14:37

I don't know... I really think DMA could still use their motor court for VIP and bus drop off via Flora. Converting Harwood to pedestrian usage doesn't mean it can't be crossed from time to time for deliveries and such. This section of Harwood is the next logical space for transitioning to a more people-oriented corridor. I could still see food trucks parking along it a couple of days a week... or the occasional school field trip drop of... no problem. I rarely see it used for any purpose as it is now.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 04 Aug 2017 09:18

I think it's really a matter of the city and the DMA having a meeting about what each other needs are if something were to change. Back when things were initially being discussed there was different management at the DMA and Klyde Warren wasn't the success it is now. Also, the DMA just reworked their Klyde Warren facing side to show their continued interest in connecting with its users. It is true though I walk to Klyde Warren at least once a week from my work Downtown and every time the Harwood street side has 5 or 6 busses parked in the shade of the trees. The Museum has to have adequate bus parking allocated for everyone's safety. Also though the Museum would benefit from an attraction such a vertical park along one side. It could bring them a rather successful events space that moves people from Klyde Warren to their main doors. They know such things would only enhance their image and potential of ticket paying visitors and lingering members. It just requires coordination from the area organizations and the city so things like buses are parked somewhere safe, reliable and without getting parking tickets.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby muncien » 04 Aug 2017 10:09

This is actually a really good candidate for a short term trial. It's already routinely closed down for events on some weekends. We should take a 60-day or so period where the three entrances to this street are closed off with removable bollards. Permit some food trucks or vendors to occupy the space during that time period, and dedicate some free spaces for local artists to display (what? local art in the art district?). That should give all parties plenty of time to analyze actual disruption and benefit, all on a section of road that handles very little functional traffic. This would be extremely cheap to execute... I'd love to see it.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 04 Aug 2017 10:36

I am curious about the food truck part though cause I wonder what their feed back would be. Klyde Warren seems like it has had less and fewer food trucks as the months have gone by. The variety has certainly gone down. I wonder if it's purely based on the weather, declining food truck trendiness, Klyde Warren management decisions etc.

I agree though you could easily do a Better Block style trial where the road is not permanently torn up simply blocked off by use of giant stones or what ever system the city will allow for the trial. Have some furniture design competitions, art stuff etc. Bike share demo setups paint the street with paint that will undoubtedly wear off rapidly.

City of Dallas is still not good at these things and Better Block is more focused on being paid by other cities to do Better Block events all over the country than to focus on more projects in Dallas. I am not criticizing them btw just being honest that Better Block is now a significant export around the world.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby tamtagon » 04 Aug 2017 10:59

cowboyeagle05 wrote:... Better Block is more focused on being paid by other cities to do Better Block events all over the country than to focus on more projects in Dallas. I am not criticizing them btw just being honest that Better Block is now a significant export around the world.


hahahaha it's funny cuz it's true.

Dallas should hire the Better Block folks to put bikes and pedestrians on Harwood from Katy Trail to Old City Park. Big project for sure, very complicated and a decade over due. Cars should still be able to use the street, of course, but bikes and people take priority.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 04 Aug 2017 17:15

cowboyeagle05 wrote:City of Dallas is still not good at these things and Better Block is more focused on being paid by other cities to do Better Block events all over the country than to focus on more projects in Dallas. I am not criticizing them btw just being honest that Better Block is now a significant export around the world.


Hopefully that's not true as my neighborhood association is working on a two-week Better Block demonstration in Oak Cliff. They still have an interest in doing what made them famous right here.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Aug 2017 11:42

lakewoodhobo wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:City of Dallas is still not good at these things and Better Block is more focused on being paid by other cities to do Better Block events all over the country than to focus on more projects in Dallas. I am not criticizing them btw just being honest that Better Block is now a significant export around the world.


Hopefully, that's not true as my neighborhood association is working on a two-week Better Block demonstration in Oak Cliff. They still have an interest in doing what made them famous right here.


There are three things for me to explain myself here. One, the NEW of what they are doing in Oak Cliff is old news so they don't get the coverage like they used to. Second, they have been developing a workable business model for their brand of civic action. Third, I am glad to hear they are getting some continued work in Oak Cliff cause I don't think they abandoned ship or anything just needed to get their model past the grit and sweat stage and into something they can sustain. Not to mention they have proven their point in many ways and have gotten the support of the city planning industry.

The problem is the City of Dallas doesn't have the same flexibility or doesn't want to spend the money on hiring them on every site in the city that needs their type of work but I digress too much.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 09 Aug 2017 15:49

Watching the City Council meeting today and heard that the garage plans have been modified. KWP says that the parking spaces still in the plan are city required, so they'll be asking for a waiver.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 11 Aug 2017 13:00

lakewoodhobo wrote:Watching the City Council meeting today and heard that the garage plans have been modified. KWP says that the parking spaces still in the plan are city required, so they'll be asking for a waiver.



Drop the stupid parking already

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tucy » 12 Aug 2017 05:46

lakewoodhobo wrote:Watching the City Council meeting today and heard that the garage plans have been modified. KWP says that the parking spaces still in the plan are city required, so they'll be asking for a waiver.


If the parking spaces are city required, why do they need a waiver?

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby DPatel304 » 12 Aug 2017 08:51

Is the waiver to, potentially, get rid of the parking?

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CTroyMathis
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby CTroyMathis » 12 Aug 2017 11:53

Harwood along DMA is so dead and drivers come out of the DMA garage like the two guys that stole the Ferrari in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

After the landscape arch. redo, there was an omission of a stop sign for both exits (Harwood & St. Paul). Fought for it's return, got a stop line. Either way, while better than nothing, it is regularly disregarded (slightly less than before, though) while the St. Paul exit does not see this same disregard at all. Shut that Harwood exit from DMA down yesterday and go right ahead and do some fun things w/Harwood to still include bus parking, a lane of traffic as nec., etc.

The DMA hardscape design is confusing to peds (auto drivers know where they need to be) because internal walks and drives look largely identical in some ways, almost as if there was indecision on whether it is a people plaza, mixed-traffic plaza, and so on by visitors and designers. . .

https://twitter.com/CTroyMathis/status/ ... 8037438465

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 15 Aug 2017 10:18

Here is a clip of Sandy Greyson asking the rep from KWP about the parking garage and the mention of a waiver:

https://vimeo.com/229719430

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tucy » 15 Aug 2017 10:45

^^ Thanks.

Quite bizarre. Initially, we were told the parking garage would generate revenue to help pay for the project (and future maintenance/improvements, etc etc. In fact, Jody Grant, the chair of the Woodall Rodgers Deck Park Foundation, told us that "Without the garage we would abandon the whole project." https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... -park-wait

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby tamtagon » 15 Aug 2017 11:03

lakewoodhobo wrote:Here is a clip of Sandy Greyson asking the rep from KWP about the parking garage and the mention of a waiver:

https://vimeo.com/229719430


maybe I'm seeing something that's not there, but the look on her face at the end was, well, um, I'm not sure what, but sure looked like she was gearing up for something!


Tucy wrote:Quite bizarre.


word

R.Wilonsky described building a parking garage over a highway, "Which is the most Dallas thing ever."

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tnexster » 15 Aug 2017 11:50

Would a parking garage deliver enough revenue to fund park maintenance and future improvements? I didn't get the impression that the parking garage was very big.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 Aug 2017 12:17

Tnexster wrote:Would a parking garage deliver enough revenue to fund park maintenance and future improvements? I didn't get the impression that the parking garage was very big.


No.. the parking was for employees. I don't think it was for Public use.

The base of the garage was to be a restaurant of some sort. But I don't think that would've been enough to generate $ for park improvements.

It appears this was nothing more than just leverage for KWP to force the city to build the garage.

I for one hated it from the beginning and I hate the Perot extension as well. Looks odd ... Would rather use that money to improve Street side.

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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 16 Aug 2017 11:07

I am assuming someone in City Hall told them a flat no on the garage so they are trying to rework plans and save face.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown: Klyde Warren Park

Postby tamtagon » 16 Aug 2017 11:55

"...the most Dallas thing to do."

You'd think maybe one day this phrase will mean something good.


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